The Return Of ATD Fantasy Football 2012-2013

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1352767005' post='1217073']
not to be that guy, but since as soon as everyone sees it someone will ask it anyway. Let's hear the reasoning for this trade from the other guy.
[/quote]

Your wish is my command.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1352767106' post='1217074']
Dalton has the same production as Romo, Pettigrew averages 1 point less than Gresham, and Lawfirm has been on my bench recently. This is my push to get better for the playoffs. On the subject of Vick, I took him just in case he comes back. So I think this was very fair. So does Gabe as he flipped back and forth for awhile.
[/quote]
That kinda doesnt explain anything tho

You already had pettigrew so he is irrelevant to the value of the trade. Agree that Dalton produces the same as Romo but again doesnt answer my question pertaining to the trade.

To give you an idea of what Im asking

You gave
Megatron
Gresham
Lawfirm
Romo

for
Marshall
Spiller
Vick

What you basically said you could have done without making the trade ie starting pettigrew and dalton. So where did you gain in this trade?

Im not trying to pick the trade apart just wondering about your thinking for your stated reason which was to improve your team for playoffs. Im wondering where you improved or rather why you needed to make this trade for the improvements you stated ie starting dalton and pettigrew.

I see a small improvement at rb and thats about it (unless you consider Marshall > Megatron but even thats a stretch considering how much I remember you valuing Megatron) and the improvement at rb doesn't offset, imo, what you lost out on in the trade.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1352766385' post='1217065']

Marshall and Megatron are a push I give you that. Vick is out this week barring a miracle and could very well lose his job which pains me to say because nothing that happened with the eagles was really his fault. His o line was terrible (only line worse in the league was the cards). No qb can perform well like that.

So really this was

Spiller for Romo Gresham and BJGE. As good as spiller is he has already shown this season that he isnt durable. Even still though spiller isnt worth all of this. I doubt jackson misses more than a game and it goes right back to being a 60/40 timeshare with jackson who will be getting the 60.

I told you Im not gonna veto it, so don't try to insult me by saying this wasn't a hosing.

Also Spiller isnt better than foster, rice, ap, mccoy, lynch just off the top of my head.
[/quote]
Spiller without Jackson is better than everyone sans AP and Foster. He catches a ton of balls and is amazing in the open field. Crushmore is taking a gamble on his production and timeshare once Jackson gets back, but I was very very hesitant to let him go.

Vick was just a throw in because i had no use for him anymore. I think i got a nice upgrade with Romo and Gresham and Crushmore didnt need either.

It really worked for both of us given our roster make-up.

If you take out the two games where Spiller was hurt, he is averaging 21.5 pts per game. Good enough for 4th best in the league. In the two games w/o Jackson he put up 30+. Oh and their schedule is cake the rest of the way. Kind of regretting it now....

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352767860' post='1217094']
Spiller without Jackson is better than everyone sans AP and Foster. He catches a ton of balls and is amazing in the open field. Crushmore is taking a gamble on his production and timeshare once Jackson gets back, but I was very very hesitant to let him go.

Vick was just a throw in because i had no use for him anymore. I think i got a nice upgrade with Romo and Gresham and Crushmore didnt need either.

It really worked for both of us given our roster make-up.
[/quote]
I disagree and Ive given reasons for it. I know why you made the trade. It improved you basically everywhere which is fine. But I really dont see any improvement for crushmore which leads me to believe that he got hosed. As hesitant as you say you are about spiller, which I doubt since you have Morris benched, so losing him isnt really a blow at all, this trade only benefits you in every way. Not gonna veto it or anything. Hosings are part of fantasy and vetoing should only be used if collusion threatens to ruin the league, but I wana know, given his reasons, how making this trade improved him. His justification was that oh well I have guys on my bench that can make up for what I lost. My question is if you had guys like this and starting them is your justification for making the trade, why did you trade? You didnt need to do that to start them.

Really Gabe? you're gonna neg for asking a question which Mt. C essentially sidestepped.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1352768029' post='1217095']

I disagree and Ive given reasons for it. I know why you made the trade. It improved you basically everywhere which is fine. But I really dont see any improvement for crushmore which leads me to believe that he got hosed. As hesitant as you say you are about spiller, which I doubt since you have Morris benched, so losing him isnt really a blow at all, this trade only benefits you in every way. Not gonna veto it or anything. Hosings are part of fantasy and vetoing should only be used if collusion threatens to ruin the league, but I wana know, given his reasons, how making this trade improved him. His justification was that oh well I have guys on my bench that can make up for what I lost. My question is if you had guys like this and starting them is your justification for making the trade, why did you trade? You didnt need to do that to start them.
[/quote]
Check out the edit I made. Just giving you the numbers. Im not sure I understand your question. Spiller is a clear upgrade over any RB currently on his roster.

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352767860' post='1217094']
Spiller without Jackson is better than everyone sans AP and Foster. He catches a ton of balls and is amazing in the open field. Crushmore is taking a gamble on his production and timeshare once Jackson gets back, but I was very very hesitant to let him go.

Vick was just a throw in because i had no use for him anymore. I think i got a nice upgrade with Romo and Gresham and Crushmore didnt need either.

It really worked for both of us given our roster make-up.

If you take out the two games where Spiller was hurt, he is averaging 21.5 pts per game. Good enough for 4th best in the league. In the two games w/o Jackson he put up 30+. Oh and their schedule is cake the rest of the way. Kind of regretting it now....
[/quote]

The schedule is the reason I wanted Spiller over Forte.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352768422' post='1217098']
Check out the edit I made. Just giving you the numbers. Im not sure I understand your question. Spiller is a clear upgrade over any RB currently on his roster.
[/quote]
My question to him was Why did he make the trade

The response he gave was that he could start dalton/pettigrew so he didnt lose much on it.

This kind of doesn't answer the question. I mean good for him, but it gives no reason as to why making that trade improved his team. If we assume Marshall for Megatron is a push (megatron has better upside imo but for the sake of my argument it doesnt matter) then he gave up Romo BJGE and Gresham for Spiller. I mean no matter how you look at it Spiller cant make up for points lost there. Yes he was benching Green ellis but if he benches someone else to start spiller those points are now lost. So going back to my original question to him "Where did he see the improvement for his playoff chances by making this trade."

His schedule was also insanely easy in the beginning of the year which easily inflated his numbers (Jets, Tennesee, KC). Not that Spiller doesn't have talent because he does, but any runningback worth his salt should dominate those matchups. For playoffs his schedule is pretty terrible. He gets St.Louis which you can consider easy but then he gets Miami and Seattle neither of which are great matchups for fantasy playoffs. Factor in that he is also in a timeshare and I just dont see it.

If he thinks the schedule is easy enough, thats fine with me. The numbers don't really support it for his given reason, but I dont see Spiller making up that point differential while you easily will.

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1352767741' post='1217088']
That kinda doesnt explain anything tho

You already had pettigrew so he is irrelevant to the value of the trade. Agree that Dalton produces the same as Romo but again doesnt answer my question pertaining to the trade.

To give you an idea of what Im asking

You gave
Megatron
Gresham
Lawfirm
Romo

for
Marshall
Spiller
Vick

What you basically said you could have done without making the trade ie starting pettigrew and dalton. So where did you gain in this trade?

Im not trying to pick the trade apart just wondering about your thinking for your stated reason which was to improve your team for playoffs. Im wondering where you improved or rather why you needed to make this trade for the improvements you stated ie starting dalton and pettigrew.

I see a small improvement at rb and thats about it (unless you consider Marshall > Megatron but even thats a stretch considering how much I remember you valuing Megatron) and the improvement at rb doesn't offset, imo, what you lost out on in the trade.
[/quote]

The Gresham and Pettigrew cancel out basically. Same with Calvin and Marshall. Romo and Vick are well Romo and Vick. That leaves Spiller for Lawfirm which is a win for me. RB has been my weakest position all year long and now I get to start Spiller (average 17) for a spot where I got an average of 6.28 so far this year. Heck in week 5 I got a total of 8 points combined at RB.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1352769146' post='1217110']
The Gresham and Pettigrew cancel out basically. Same with Calvin and Marshall. Romo and Vick are well Romo and Vick. That leaves Spiller for Lawfirm which is a win for me. RB has been my weakest position all year long and now I get to start Spiller (average 17) for a spot where I got an average of 6.28 so far this year. Heck in week 5 I got a total of 8 points combined at RB.
[/quote]
Hey if you feel its a good trade, good luck, thats all I can say, but I feel that you'll find that Spiller wont be able to make up the difference for what you gave away. If you feel otherwise thats fine, I was just curious as to why because I couldnt see it.

If you could have gotten Forte tho, you should have gotten Forte.

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1352769381' post='1217113']
Hey if you feel its a good trade, good luck, thats all I can say, but I feel that you'll find that Spiller wont be able to make up the difference for what you gave away. If you feel otherwise thats fine, I was just curious as to why because I couldnt see it.

If you could have gotten Forte tho, you should have gotten Forte.
[/quote]

Forte has a much tougher schedule to finish the season.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1352769944' post='1217124']
Forte has a much tougher schedule to finish the season.
[/quote]
Kinda hard to beat two top defenses against the run

I would def take


Minn
GB
Arizona

over
St.Louis
Seattle
Miami

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1352770914' post='1217135']
Kinda hard to beat two top defenses against the run

I would def take


Minn
GB
Arizona

over
St.Louis
Seattle
Miami
[/quote]

We get it.

You're mad that both our teams just got better lol

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352782720' post='1217764']
We get it.

You're mad that both our teams just got better lol
[/quote]

If that were the case I'd veto lol

No but seriously I was just checking the easy schedule thing and while Spiller has an easy one prior to playoffs once he gets there he has one of the hardest ones you can get. Forte actually does have a better schedule. I'm just saying Forte was the better guy to ask for there. This was just to debate who you would rather have for playoffs. Im actually past the trade. Its done and done. Im just saying if he had the choice Forte was the better option

[gabefergy]

Clinched a playoff spot!

[JO_75]

That is one odd lopsided trade.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1352828027' post='1218102']
That is one odd lopsided trade.
[/quote]
lol thats what I said but apparently they don't think so lol. Either way the trade offer I shot ya before was just guage if you were interested in moving those 2 guys. Pm me and lmk

[JO_75]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1352829214' post='1218129']
lol that's what I said but apparently they don't think so lol. Either way the trade offer I shot ya before was just guage if you were interested in moving those 2 guys. Pm me and lmk
[/quote]

I vetoed that trade. I just don't think it's a fair trade.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1352829862' post='1218136']


I vetoed that trade. I just don't think it's a fair trade.
[/quote]
How can you veto it? Thats some BS.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352831127' post='1218154']
How can you veto it? Thats some BS.
[/quote]
oh so when it happens to you it's BS. lol at least the truth finally comes out

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1352831267' post='1218156']

oh so when it happens to you it's BS. lol at least the truth finally comes out
[/quote]
The difference is this a fair trade...Crushmore upgraded WR and RB. I get depth at two positions I am weak. Its obviously a good trade for both teams.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352831448' post='1218159']
The difference is this a fair trade...Crushmore upgraded WR and RB. I get depth at two positions I am weak. Its obviously a good trade for both teams.
[/quote]
you're kiding me right. Marshall is not an upgrade over Megatron. At best he is a push. You upgraded at qb, wr arguably, and te and then got compensation in an rb.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1352831677' post='1218164']

you're kiding me right. Marshall is not an upgrade over Megatron. At best he is a push. You upgraded at qb, wr arguably, and te and then got compensation in an rb.
[/quote]
Marshall has been better than Megatron all season. Its a fact.

228 points vs 192. Its not even that close.

[JO_75]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352831448' post='1218159']
The difference is this a fair trade...Crushmore upgraded WR and RB. I get depth at two positions I am weak. Its obviously a good trade for both teams.
[/quote]

Yes but the value you lose by trading Calvin Johnson is too much of a win for him and you don't really win.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1352831987' post='1218168']


Yes but the value you lose by trading Calvin Johnson is too much of a win for him and you don't really win.
[/quote]

Brandon Marshall is the best WR in our league. He has outperformed Megatron by a significant amount. Stop getting hung up on name value.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352831756' post='1218166']
Marshall has been better than Megatron all season. Its a fact.

228 points vs 192. Its not even that close.
[/quote]
I already said im not gonna veto it, and i've already explained my viewpoint on it but I'll state my opinion again, at best this is a push with Megatron having the higher ceiling.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1352833401' post='1218190']

I already said im not gonna veto it, and i've already explained my viewpoint on it but I'll state my opinion again, at best this is a push with Megatron having the higher ceiling.
[/quote]
Allrite. I just dont see how you think that when Marshall has clearly been better. Thanks for not vetoing though, at least you understand the point of the trade.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352832178' post='1218173']
Brandon Marshall is the best WR in our league. He has outperformed Megatron by a significant amount. Stop getting hung up on name value.
[/quote]
Calvin Johnson is still on pace to have almost 1600 receiving yards and 90 catches I believe. The point difference right now I believe is due to touchdowns which will come. If you look at it on a per game basis this is supported. Not saying touchdowns don't matter, but if you think Megatron finishes the year with 2 touchdown catches you have to be kidding me.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352833562' post='1218193']
Allrite. I just dont see how you think that when Marshall has clearly been better. Thanks for not vetoing though, at least you understand the point of the trade.
[/quote]
Don't misunderstand me, I am not vetoing it because vetoing it would be an act of collusion which defeats the entire purpose of the veto which is what was done to me before. You guys all vetoed the trade because my team benefited too much and that was bad for each and every one of you. So while you didn't conspire to kill the trade, you may as well have since you all killed it for the same reason despite me doing nothing to undermine the fairness of the league (bad trades are part of fantasy) I still expect this trade to be vetoed though because you are gaining too much. If my trade was vetoed I see no reason why they wouldnt veto this one.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1352833622' post='1218194']

Calvin Johnson is still on pace to have almost 1600 receiving yards and 90 catches I believe. The point difference right now I believe is due to touchdowns which will come. If you look at it on a per game basis this is supported. Not saying touchdowns don't matter, but if you think Megatron finishes the year with 2 touchdown catches you have to be kidding me.
[/quote]
No. But Marshall has been better. He is also on pace for 1600 yards and 90+ catches. He also doesnt have Johnson's injury issues.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352835666' post='1218221']
No. But Marshall has been better. He is also on pace for 1600 yards and 90+ catches. He also doesnt have Johnson's injury issues.
[/quote]
Yea but touchdowns are the only reason which you have to realize will come and while Calvin is matchup proof, Marshall is not due to games where the bear's o line is awful and of course Jay Cutler going down with injury (Calvin has already proved for years he can be great without Stafford). While marshall played well with his share of terrible qbs, who would you rather have? I'll take that guy called Megatron. Calvin does have injuries i'll give you that and I personally wouldnt want him because of that but they are not affecting his production atm