The Return Of ATD Fantasy Football 2012-2013

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350427586' post='1192981']
lol figures er20 has the easiest strength of schedule. What luck. lol
[/quote]




By a pretty wide margin as well.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350447198' post='1193244']
yea it had nothing to do with the rest of your team (hernandez cough) lol. Kendricks carried your team (foh with that noise)
[/quote]

show me where I said Kendricks carried my team? 8 points is a respectable number for a TE, especially after you told me "he is crap". Well he was the difference between a win and a loss so I'll take it. Just as I predicted Kendricks had a bigger role in the offense because Amendola went out.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1350492690' post='1193478']
show me where I said Kendricks carried my team? 8 points is a respectable number for a TE, especially after you told me "he is crap". Well he was the difference between a win and a loss so I'll take it. Just as I predicted Kendricks had a bigger role in the offense because Amendola went out.
[/quote]
8 points in ppr is hardly respectable for a pass catcher. I mean lets look at his production really. He had 4 catches for 40. Not really decent in any terms at least for fantasy purposes. To give you an idea of how this compares, an idp player gives you about 8 points on a good day (tyvon branch for me did that) and thats without the ppr bonus. Considering your argument was he'd seen an increased role we can consider that so long as Amendola is out he will have "good" games. If this is his upside than he is crap.

While you say kendricks was the difference between a win and loss you can say that about any player that started that week as well so really thats pointless. The fact that you say Kendricks was the difference between a win and loss implies Kendricks carried the team in some fashion. Basically what it says is that if you hadnt started kendricks you lose, which is obv not the case. You may have won by a slim margin lol but if you only needed 5 points to win minus kendricks you shouldnt be worried if you have a flex left especially in ppr.

If you want upside tho, brandon gibson has it in that offense. 7 catches for 91 yards. Thats 16 points which is not only respectable but considering our scoring bonus for 100 yards it would be great if he basically makes one more catch (given the ypc).

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1350474474' post='1193303']


By a pretty wide margin as well.
[/quote]
Dont know if its constantly updates, or how its determined, but if I were guessing, given the average of less than 120 points scored against you, people seem to have their lowest scoring weeks when playing you lol.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350493278' post='1193491']
8 points in ppr is hardly respectable for a pass catcher. I mean lets look at his production really. He had 4 catches for 40. Not really decent in any terms at least for fantasy purposes. To give you an idea of how this compares, an idp player gives you about 8 points on a good day (tyvon branch for me did that) and thats without the ppr bonus. Considering your argument was he'd seen an increased role we can consider that so long as Amendola is out he will have "good" games. If this is his upside than he is crap.

While you say kendricks was the difference between a win and loss you can say that about any player that started that week as well so really thats pointless. The fact that you say Kendricks was the difference between a win and loss implies Kendricks carried the team in some fashion. Basically what it says is that if you hadnt started kendricks you lose, which is obv not the case. You may have won by a slim margin lol but if you only needed 5 points to win minus kendricks you shouldnt be worried if you have a flex left especially in ppr.

If you want upside tho, brandon gibson has it in that offense. 7 catches for 91 yards. Thats 16 points which is not only respectable but considering our scoring bonus for 100 yards it would be great if he basically makes one more catch (given the ypc).
[/quote]

More essays please. By the way nobody cares about or reads your page long responses

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1350493840' post='1193502']
More essays please. By the way nobody cares about or reads your page long responses
[/quote]
Talks about essays, writes a sentence that basically says tldr

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350493612' post='1193496']
Dont know if its constantly updates, or how its determined, but if I were guessing, given the average of less than 120 points scored against you, people seem to have their lowest scoring weeks when playing you lol.
[/quote]

I think it does. That's skill on my part.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1350494768' post='1193529']
I think it does. That's skill on my part.
[/quote]
lol

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350494069' post='1193506']

Talks about essays, writes a sentence that basically says tldr
[/quote]
Yup. Could write an essay back, but its not worth the effort especially considering you wont admit you are wrong anyways.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1350495127' post='1193537']
Yup. Could write an essay back, but its not worth the effort especially considering you wont admit you are wrong anyways.
[/quote]
wrong about what? Kendricks being worthless? I dont think I was and still dont think I am and Kendricks has done nothing to prove different. Tell ya what wana prove me wrong? Bench Hernandez and start Kendricks only lol.

Besides if you wana go there you still wont admit you were wrong about Lloyd lol

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350497306' post='1193571']

wrong about what? Kendricks being worthless? I dont think I was and still dont think I am and Kendricks has done nothing to prove different. Tell ya what wana prove me wrong? Bench Hernandez and start Kendricks only lol.

Besides if you wana go there you still wont admit you were wrong about Lloyd lol
[/quote]

How is 8 points out of a back up TE 2 weeks in a row worthless. I can see why you dont want him if you have better options, but 8 points is valuable to me especially considering my starting TE has been injured.

It's a lot more than Turner got last week. In fact it's more than Turner has gotten multiple weeks which is exactly why I didnt want him. His value is completely TD dependent and he has yet to prove to me he is a reliable option.

[JO_75]

My goodness, you people take Fantasy Football too seriously. Fantasy Football is supposed to be fun, your not supposed to take it this seriously.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1350510841' post='1193729']
How is 8 points out of a back up TE 2 weeks in a row worthless. I can see why you dont want him if you have better options, but 8 points is valuable to me especially considering my starting TE has been injured.

It's a lot more than Turner got last week. In fact it's more than Turner has gotten multiple weeks which is exactly why I didnt want him. His value is completely TD dependent and he has yet to prove to me he is a reliable option.
[/quote]
2 weeks is what it is more than. it is less than what he has got in 4 weeks. It is essentially worthless since you started him as a flex and there are multiple options that could have given you that same 8 points either benched or in FA (Davone Bess on your bench for example and William Powell and Gibson on my bench currently).

No crap, Turner's value is td dependent. Generally, how it works with rbs. Rarely are you gonna get a guy that dominates rushing wise like Jones Drew did with 193 yards a few weeks ago. The point of that is that RB's are much more likely to score TDs that Wide Receivers since it is easier for them to score in their circumstances (short yardage tds) and they are the only option for those carries. Since tds are worth so much and they have the highest consistency of scoring TD's that is kind of why they are valuable (not including QB for obv reasons)

TLDR: Rb's are valuable because of TDs, and that 8 points was easily found elsewhere

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350514373' post='1193782']
2 weeks is what it is more than. it is less than what he has got in 4 weeks. It is essentially worthless since you started him as a flex and there are multiple options that could have given you that same 8 points either benched or in FA (Davone Bess on your bench for example and William Powell and Gibson on my bench currently).

No crap, Turner's value is td dependent. Generally, how it works with rbs. Rarely are you gonna get a guy that dominates rushing wise like Jones Drew did with 193 yards a few weeks ago. The point of that is that RB's are much more likely to score TDs that Wide Receivers since it is easier for them to score in their circumstances (short yardage tds) and they are the only option for those carries. Since tds are worth so much and they have the highest consistency of scoring TD's that is kind of why they are valuable (not including QB for obv reasons)

TLDR: Rb's are valuable because of TDs, and that 8 points was easily found elsewhere
[/quote]

Thanks for the summary, but I disagree with you. Most RBs will get points and yards from catching passes and average better YPC than Turner. He just isnt a good running back. I could parse out the data for you, but in short if you take away a couple of games that are outliers, over the past 12 games going back to last season Turner just doesnt impress. He looks slow and often turns what should be big gains into 1-2 yards. Atlanta's offense has been great so far, and that is a large part of why Turner has had a successful season. However, their schedule gets tougher and I just cant see him as a consistent option. Two out of six weeks he has scored a measly 3 points. That kind of production is just killer. Yes, Lloyd hasnt been scoring TDs, but I would argue that is more of a fluke than anything else. Two weeks ago, he landed on the 1 inch line on what looked like a TD but instead of reviewing BB just ran the ball in because he could. Week 1 Lloyd is Wide open for a TD and Brady just misses him. If those 2 plays go slightly different we are talking about 2 players that have basically had the same production.

As for Kendricks, he wasnt my flex. He was my TE because my Hernandez was questionable and had a late game so I need the versatility of the flex spot. I also didnt have Bess on my bench. He was starting for me because of bye week/injuries. Kendricks has been a valuable addition to my roster and I think he will continue being productive at least until Amendola comes back.

There I go writing an essay lol

[gabefergy]

@Sizzle

Just another point about RB vs WR. I think you are completely wrong here. It is completely player dependent as to whether a RB or WR is more valuable. You of all ppl should know that considering all the RBs you drafted high have been bad relatively speaking. Your team has been carried by Wayne and Colston so dont go telling me RB > WR.

In fact my team has outscored yours so far so you really have no room to talk considering how adamant you were that having "elite" RBs is so important.

[JO_75]

Wow... you all completely ignored the fact that I said you guys take this way too seriously and that this is supposed to be for fun. That right there proves you all take it too seriously. You know why I didn't care much about the first trade being vetoed, because I don't take this as serious, I'm here to have fun.

You may now continue writing out your essays.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1350513033' post='1193754']
My goodness, you people take Fantasy Football too seriously. Fantasy Football is supposed to be fun, your not supposed to take it this seriously.
[/quote]
Discussions like this are part of the fun. Also I didnt see your post so it wasnt ignored, it just wasnt there when I was replying

[JO_75]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350517243' post='1193831']
Discussions like this are part of the fun. Also I didnt see your post so it wasnt ignored, it just wasnt there when I was replying
[/quote]

Part of the fun, you must have really loved English Classes especially when you had to write Essays.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1350517608' post='1193837']
Part of the fun, you must have really loved English Classes especially when you had to write Essays.
[/quote]
Actually hated english classes and writing essays on boring novels that held no interest to me. However, they were helpful for my business ethics classes which were based on forming logical arguments and basically debating

For all my essay writing, the one thing you cant say is that I don't know what im doing or cant justify my decisions/opinions. The fact that I have enough data to back me and can form into such a long argument is evidence of that.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1350516064' post='1193814']
Thanks for the summary, but I disagree with you. Most RBs will get points and yards from catching passes and average better YPC than Turner. He just isnt a good running back. I could parse out the data for you, but in short if you take away a couple of games that are outliers, over the past 12 games going back to last season Turner just doesnt impress. He looks slow and often turns what should be big gains into 1-2 yards. Atlanta's offense has been great so far, and that is a large part of why Turner has had a successful season. However, their schedule gets tougher and I just cant see him as a consistent option. Two out of six weeks he has scored a measly 3 points. That kind of production is just killer. Yes, Lloyd hasnt been scoring TDs, but I would argue that is more of a fluke than anything else. Two weeks ago, he landed on the 1 inch line on what looked like a TD but instead of reviewing BB just ran the ball in because he could. Week 1 Lloyd is Wide open for a TD and Brady just misses him. If those 2 plays go slightly different we are talking about 2 players that have basically had the same production.

As for Kendricks, he wasnt my flex. He was my TE because my Hernandez was questionable and had a late game so I need the versatility of the flex spot. I also didnt have Bess on my bench. He was starting for me because of bye week/injuries. Kendricks has been a valuable addition to my roster and I think he will continue being productive at least until Amendola comes back.

There I go writing an essay lol
[/quote]
Missed this one lol

You can disagree and thats fine but if 8 points is kendrick's upside (since amendola is out) then its pretty pathetic. Did it help you this week, yea but look at how many points you actually needed to win that game. it was about 5. Are you really telling me that you dont think almost any flex option could have given you 5 points in a ppr league?

I mean I disagree with your data about Turner for fantasy wise. Let's knock off he looks slow etc... cause that opinionated (justified but opinionated), he finished 6th among rbs last year. He has 4 tds this year so far? You are right in that Atlanta's offense being great is what allowed him to be great, but wasn't that one of the very reasons I proposed to you about why Turner for Lloyd was a bad trade in the first place? I said Atlanta would have a red hot offense and that in the red zone who would end up benefitting? Turner. And Atlanta has been there a lot this year.

As for Lloyd, him not having the tds is not a fluke. Lloyd is near the bottom of that progression read list in the red zone. Imo this is the progression list: run it with ridley (since he has been getting a healthy amount carries a game and the pats have established that they want to run), then Gronk, then Hernandez, then Lloyd. I don't know if you have the stats on it, but check the red zone targets. I cant imagine lloyd having more than hernandez or gronk and I doubt he has more red zone opportunities than ridley. So I dont see his lack of touchdowns as a fluke.

What if scenarios are great, but they arent what happened. You could say if Welker caught that ball in the Superbowl (a catch he makes 99/100 times) the pats win the superbowl. As for determining whether tds are flukey the only stat you can really look at are red zone targets if you want to be fair about it imo. If Lloyd had more red zone targets than anyone else id say yea its gonna happen eventually. Other than that tho, we have no real indicator of when an end zone strike is going to come. Also his targets/priority looks would have to be substantially more than anyone else. If he has 7 and then gronk or henandez has 6 well thats a pretty even spread.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350520473' post='1193863']
Missed this one lol

You can disagree and thats fine but if 8 points is kendrick's upside (since amendola is out) then its pretty pathetic. Did it help you this week, yea but look at how many points you actually needed to win that game. it was about 5. Are you really telling me that you dont think almost any flex option could have given you 5 points in a ppr league?

I mean I disagree with your data about Turner for fantasy wise. Let's knock off he looks slow etc... cause that opinionated (justified but opinionated), he finished 6th among rbs last year. He has 4 tds this year so far? You are right in that Atlanta's offense being great is what allowed him to be great, but wasn't that one of the very reasons I proposed to you about why Turner for Lloyd was a bad trade in the first place? I said Atlanta would have a red hot offense and that in the red zone who would end up benefitting? Turner. And Atlanta has been there a lot this year.

As for Lloyd, him not having the tds is not a fluke. Lloyd is near the bottom of that progression read list in the red zone. Imo this is the progression list: run it with ridley (since he has been getting a healthy amount carries a game and the pats have established that they want to run), then Gronk, then Hernandez, then Lloyd. I don't know if you have the stats on it, but check the red zone targets. I cant imagine lloyd having more than hernandez or gronk and I doubt he has more red zone opportunities than ridley. So I dont see his lack of touchdowns as a fluke.

What if scenarios are great, but they arent what happened. You could say if Welker caught that ball in the Superbowl (a catch he makes 99/100 times) the pats win the superbowl. As for determining whether tds are flukey the only stat you can really look at are red zone targets if you want to be fair about it imo. If Lloyd had more red zone targets than anyone else id say yea its gonna happen eventually. Other than that tho, we have no real indicator of when an end zone strike is going to come. Also his targets/priority looks would have to be substantially more than anyone else. If he has 7 and then gronk or henandez has 6 well thats a pretty even spread.
[/quote]

I never said Kendricks upside is 8 points, and I never acted like he was some elite player. He has produced at that level for two weeks straight, but until Amendola comes back I think that is probably his base-line production. Frankly, St. Loius offense isnt that great so I dont expect him to consistently put up big numbers but for a TE2 who I will only start because of byes/injuries that isnt bad. I've been streaming TEs up until now and that has been better than the other scrubs I have plugged in.

OK. Fair enough about Lloyd not being a Red Zone target. He has still been consistently thrown the ball though, so he gets value in that offense independent of TDs unlike Turner. I am surprised that Lloyd hasnt been used as much as a deep threat, but he is still catching lots of balls and TDs will come although he is likely to end up with 5-6 as opposed to the 9-10 TDs I was expecting out of him.

Turner has been good overall, but he is incredibly inconsistent. What happens when the fantasy playoffs roll around and he gets 3 pts, or when he averages 5-6 points per game down the stretch like he did last season. He has done nothing to show that he is a better RB than he was last year, and so far he has two games that are absolute crap. If he was a better RB I wouldnt have made the trade, but these 3 point performances are exactly why I didnt want him. If he isnt getting into the endzone he has no value in that offense. That isnt the case for all RBs though.

TLDR; Lloyd has underwhelmed, but Turner isnt much better.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1350521317' post='1193867']
I never said Kendricks upside is 8 points, and I never acted like he was some elite player. He has produced at that level for two weeks straight, but until Amendola comes back I think that is probably his base-line production. Frankly, St. Loius offense isnt that great so I dont expect him to consistently put up big numbers but for a TE2 who I will only start because of byes/injuries that isnt bad. I've been streaming TEs up until now and that has been better than the other scrubs I have plugged in.

OK. Fair enough about Lloyd not being a Red Zone target. He has still been consistently thrown the ball though, so he gets value in that offense independent of TDs unlike Turner. I am surprised that Lloyd hasnt been used as much as a deep threat, but he is still catching lots of balls and TDs will come although he is likely to end up with 5-6 as opposed to the 9-10 TDs I was expecting out of him.

Turner has been good overall, but he is incredibly inconsistent. What happens when the fantasy playoffs roll around and he gets 3 pts, or when he averages 5-6 points per game down the stretch like he did last season. He has done nothing to show that he is a better RB than he was last year, and so far he has two games that are absolute crap. If he was a better RB I wouldnt have made the trade, but these 3 point performances are exactly why I didnt want him. If he isnt getting into the endzone he has no value in that offense. That isnt the case for all RBs though.

TLDR; Lloyd has underwhelmed, but Turner isnt much better.
[/quote]
No offense but the final part of the argument can apply to any player so singling out Turner there is kind of pointless. I mean if Lloyd played Revis during playoffs and he was shut out would you say he was worthless? Matchups for playoffs do matter. So yes Turner could drop off during playoffs but he could also go off if he goes against a soft run D or if atlanta blows out that matchup early and goes into garbage time in the 3rd quarter.

If your streaming tight ends and kendricks is basically giving you what any other player you streamed would have given you isnt that my point? If any player you stream to use in that flex spot could give you kendricks level of production that what is valuable about kendricks at all. I mean why wouldnt I or anyone for that matter choose to trade for kendricks over just doing what you did and streaming players?

Lloyd hasnt been used as a deep threat because that offense doesnt function well for deep threats. Its not brady's style. That offense is a precision attack. Brady gets the ball out quick and the receivers get the yac. Does it take shots deep? Occasionally, but you dont see brady holding on the ball for long too often.

As for Turner's td dependence, here are his rushing yards 32, 42, 80, 103, 67, 33. He has 4 tds. If you compare his rushing yards to Lloyd's receiving yards (69, 60, 104, 80, 50, 34 not in order just listed the numbers) production is fairly similar. The pace is almost identical with Turner have the higher upside due to TD's. Also remember I am not listing any receiving yards turner got in those games.

tldr" If kendricks value = streamlined player than what makes him have any value whatsoever? Deep threat isnt a big part of pats offense and Turner has better yardage production than you think. Its fairly close to lloyd and turner has 4 tds

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350524442' post='1193910']
No offense but the final part of the argument can apply to any player so singling out Turner there is kind of pointless. I mean if Lloyd played Revis during playoffs and he was shut out would you say he was worthless? Matchups for playoffs do matter. So yes Turner could drop off during playoffs but he could also go off if he goes against a soft run D or if atlanta blows out that matchup early and goes into garbage time in the 3rd quarter.

If your streaming tight ends and kendricks is basically giving you what any other player you streamed would have given you isnt that my point? If any player you stream to use in that flex spot could give you kendricks level of production that what is valuable about kendricks at all. I mean why wouldnt I or anyone for that matter choose to trade for kendricks over just doing what you did and streaming players?

Lloyd hasnt been used as a deep threat because that offense doesnt function well for deep threats. Its not brady's style. That offense is a precision attack. Brady gets the ball out quick and the receivers get the yac. Does it take shots deep? Occasionally, but you dont see brady holding on the ball for long too often.

As for Turner's td dependence, here are his rushing yards 32, 42, 80, 103, 67, 33. He has 4 tds. If you compare his rushing yards to Lloyd's receiving yards (69, 60, 104, 80, 50, 34 not in order just listed the numbers) production is fairly similar. The pace is almost identical with Turner have the higher upside due to TD's. Also remember I am not listing any receiving yards turner got in those games.

tldr" If kendricks value = streamlined player than what makes him have any value whatsoever? Deep threat isnt a big part of pats offense and Turner has better yardage production than you think. Its fairly close to lloyd and turner has 4 tds
[/quote]

I said I have been streaming TEs, but I never said their production was equivalent to Kendricks. I tried Brandon Myers and Kellen Davis and both gave me 3-4 points. These are the kind of TEs that are available on the waiver wire. I picked up Kendricks and he gave me twice the production, so yeah that is a difference. Thats the difference between a win and a loss.

I'll just say this about Turner vs Lloyd since it's a horse that I dont think can take any more beating. He (Turner) had one big game this year which IMO was a total fluke. He caught a screen pass and took it 60 yards for a TD. Not only does he rarely ever catch balls, but that was his[i] first ever [/i]receiving TD. He may very well end up out scoring Lloyd this season, but his inconsistency is what makes him IMO a poor fantasy player. You even admitted that his value is completely TD dependent. When he isnt getting yards (which happens fairly frequently) there is a good chance he hurts your team. Lloyd I feel more comfortable with as a consistent points scorer because he is highly involved in that offense.

[Mt. Crushmore]

I have an essay on any subject due on Friday. Do you guys mind if I take the ones you have been posting?

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1350526254' post='1193938']
I have an essay on any subject due on Friday. Do you guys mind if I take the ones you have been posting?
[/quote]
an essay for reggie wayne deal?

[codizzle]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1350526254' post='1193938']
I have an essay on any subject due on Friday. Do you guys mind if I take the ones you have been posting?
[/quote]
I got a subject for ya big guy








[img]http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x337/codyallanb14/b9189936.jpg[/img]

Let that one blow ur mind

[Sizzlebshu]

cannot catch a friggin break. Hope mjd is okay

[Mt. Crushmore]

I got lucky. I play Rosemount Rebels and he has Matt Ryan and Brent Celek in the starting lineup when they are on byes and DeAngelo Williams got him .4 and he is also starting Kevin Smith.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1350859985' post='1198904']
I got lucky. I play Rosemount Rebels and he has Matt Ryan and Brent Celek in the starting lineup when they are on byes and DeAngelo Williams got him .4 and he is also starting Kevin Smith.
[/quote]
an inactive owner...great....

[JO_75]

I would say I'm on my way to my third consecutive win but my opponent has Ben, Wallace, and Heath Miller remaining.