2012-2013 NBA Season Thread

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Volse17' timestamp='1348807885' post='1171703']
Lakers are going to knock the Heat off their throne this year! Championship 17 coming to LA!
[/quote]
Anyone but Miami. bobcats and Warriors in the NBA finals, I call it.

[jus'_crAzy]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1350014477' post='1185720']
Anyone but Miami. bobcats and Warriors in the NBA finals, I call it.
[/quote]
My brain kerploded.

[Volse17]

How can Charles Barkley say that LeBron is better than Michael Jordan? LeBron is a great player, but he will never be Michael Jordan.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='Volse17' timestamp='1350411298' post='1192662']
How can Charles Barkley say that LeBron is better than Michael Jordan? LeBron is a great player, but he will never be Michael Jordan.
[/quote]
He's on pace for it to be debatable.

[codizzle]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1350420499' post='1192856']

He's on pace for it to be debatable.
[/quote]
I'm a fan of Lebron but na not even on pace yet.. Can't say that for another few years

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Volse17' timestamp='1350411298' post='1192662']
How can Charles Barkley say that LeBron is better than Michael Jordan? LeBron is a great player, but he will never be Michael Jordan.
[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree. Jordan wasn't just Jordan because he was so good, it was the attitude. Lebron will never be cold blooded the way Jordan was, it's just not who he is. Lebron is closer in skill set to Magic anyway.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1350427335' post='1192976']
I'm a fan of Lebron but na not even on pace yet.. Can't say that for another few years
[/quote]
He won a championship at the same age as Jordan. He's got the MVPs, most dominate force in NBA.

I've never seen Jordan play, but the numbers are starting to pace up. I don't think he will be because Jordan was one of a kind, greatest ever no question

[codizzle]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1350429437' post='1193011']

He won a championship at the same age as Jordan. He's got the MVPs, most dominate force in NBA.

I've never seen Jordan play, but the numbers are starting to pace up. I don't think he will be because Jordan was one of a kind, greatest ever no question
[/quote]
Yea.. A championship..

That's why I said not yet.. Cause it's just "a championship..

IMO he has to win at least 4-5 to be in the same breath as Jordan and he has to be dominant in all of them

Remember Jordan coulda had more if he hadn't pulled his retiring stunt

[Gordo52]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1350432199' post='1193057']
Yea.. A championship..

That's why I said not yet.. Cause it's just "a championship..

IMO he has to win at least 4-5 to be in the same breath as Jordan and he has to be dominant in all of them

Remember Jordan coulda had more if he hadn't pulled his retiring stunt
[/quote]
Yeah I know, plus Jordan never lost one so yeah. But I honestly don't see anyone beating the Heat for the while. Thunder and Lakers will give them a run, but the Heat will be Eastern champions for awhile.

[FerrariFan87]

I must say that I've liked what I've seen so far from Bradley Beal. He's gonna be a good player for the Wiz.

[Volse17]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1350420499' post='1192856']
He's on pace for it to be debatable.
[/quote]

First off, LeBron entered the NBA 2 years younger than Jordan. So he had two extra years to win it. Second, Jordan had much better competition during those early years than LeBron did. Jordan had Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers, and the Bad Boy Pistons. LeBron never had to face a team that was as good as any of these teams. The closest being San Antonio, who were good but not as good as the others. Third, LeBron will never be the scorer that Jordan was. In LeBron's best season he averaged 31.5 points per game. Jordan beat this 5 times with his best being 37.1 points per game. Also, Jordan was the only one on his team that got double coverage, while LeBron and Wade both get doubled. This means Jordan had to carry the offensive load nearly every game. Jordan also had 10 scoring titles (including seven straight), while LeBron has a whopping one. LeBron will go down as one of the top 10 best to play, with players such as Magic, Robertson, Russell, Chamberlain, Kareem, etc. But Jordan is in his own category, and that will not change.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Volse17' timestamp='1350496988' post='1193565']
First off, LeBron entered the NBA 2 years younger than Jordan. So he had two extra years to win it. Second, Jordan had much better competition during those early years than LeBron did. Jordan had Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers, and the Bad Boy Pistons. LeBron never had to face a team that was as good as any of these teams. The closest being San Antonio, who were good but not as good as the others. Third, LeBron will never be the scorer that Jordan was. In LeBron's best season he averaged 31.5 points per game. Jordan beat this 5 times with his best being 37.1 points per game. [b]Also, Jordan was the only one on his team that got double coverage, while LeBron and Wade both get doubled. This means Jordan had to carry the offensive load nearly every game. Jordan also had 10 scoring titles (including seven straight), while LeBron has a whopping one.[/b] LeBron will go down as one of the top 10 best to play, with players such as Magic, Robertson, Russell, Chamberlain, Kareem, etc. But Jordan is in his own category, and that will not change.
[/quote]

Superstars don't get doubled nearly as much as you're implying. That's just not how basketball works. Teams often put their best defenders on scorers like MJ, LeBron and Wade and hope for the best. Double-teams are usually only reserved for late-game situations.

MJ was undoubtedly the man but he didn't "carry the offensive load nearly game". Pippen, Kukoc and even Paxson contributed more than their fair share of points. In terms of scoring titles, LeBron's game has never been primarily about scoring. For one, he doesn't take as many shots as Jordan did and he distributes the ball more than MJ as well. And while it's not something we factor in when it comes to scoring, MJ never had to deal with the stress of going from guarding point guard and scorers on the outside to power forwards and centers in the post for extended periods of time. It's tough to go full-tilt on offense when you're exerting that much energy on defense.

Not to discredit MJ's effort on D at all; the man was amazing on that end of the floor. But he simply didn't have to do as much as LeBron on defense, especially with Pippen beside him.

[Gordo52]

I used to hate LeBron, mostly because it was easy and funny making fun of him. But I'm starting to become a fan of his, I'll admit it.

It's funny what winning 1 championship can do. The unstoppable force as well.

[Volse17]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1350503421' post='1193640']
Superstars don't get doubled nearly as much as you're implying. That's just not how basketball works. Teams often put their best defenders on scorers like MJ, LeBron and Wade and hope for the best. Double-teams are usually only reserved for late-game situations.

MJ was undoubtedly the man but he didn't "carry the offensive load nearly game". Pippen, Kukoc and even Paxson contributed more than their fair share of points. In terms of scoring titles, LeBron's game has never been primarily about scoring. For one, he doesn't take as many shots as Jordan did and he distributes the ball more than MJ as well. And while it's not something we factor in when it comes to scoring, MJ never had to deal with the stress of going from guarding point guard and scorers on the outside to power forwards and centers in the post for extended periods of time. It's tough to go full-tilt on offense when you're exerting that much energy on defense.

Not to discredit MJ's effort on D at all; the man was amazing on that end of the floor. But he simply didn't have to do as much as LeBron on defense, especially with Pippen beside him.
[/quote]

Seriously, you are saying they only doubled MJ in late game situations? Ever heard of the Jordan Rules? Here is an exact quote from Daly: "If Michael was at the point, we forced him left and doubled him. If he was on the left wing, we went immediately to a double team from the top. If he was on the right wing, we went to a slow double team. He could hurt you equally from either wing—hell, he could hurt you from the hot-dog stand—but we just wanted to vary the look. And if he was on the box, we doubled with a big guy." As far as the offensive load, he did carry it nearly every game. Pippen is the only other one that could, and Jordan's best scoring average is fifteen points more than Pippen's. He did carry that load nearly every game, and if you say he didn't, you would be the odd man out of all the NBA players and analyst's I have heard say that. As far as his defense is concerned, Michael tried just as hard and spent just as much energy as LeBron did. He is a 3 time steal champion, and a 9-time all-nba first team defensive player.

[codizzle]

That's not a "double team" though.. They didn't literally double team him the length of the court..

It was more or less an extra defensive rotation to him while in their half court defense..Teams do that all the time.. Slide down an extra man when a Durnat,Kobe,Dirk type player has the ball

Obviously not putting them in the same class as Jordan just saying he isn't the only player to see those defensive sets

[FerrariFan87]

What do ya'll think of the "LeBron to the Lakers in 2014" talk? I think it's ludicrous, but you really never know.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Volse17' timestamp='1350589182' post='1194369']
Seriously, you are saying they only doubled MJ in late game situations? Ever heard of the Jordan Rules? Here is an exact quote from Daly: "If Michael was at the point, we forced him left and doubled him. If he was on the left wing, we went immediately to a double team from the top. If he was on the right wing, we went to a slow double team. He could hurt you equally from either wing—hell, he could hurt you from the hot-dog stand—but we just wanted to vary the look. And if he was on the box, we doubled with a big guy." As far as the offensive load, he did carry it nearly every game. Pippen is the only other one that could, and Jordan's best scoring average is fifteen points more than Pippen's. He did carry that load nearly every game, and if you say he didn't, you would be the odd man out of all the NBA players and analyst's I have heard say that. As far as his defense is concerned, Michael tried just as hard and spent just as much energy as LeBron did. He is a 3 time steal champion, and a 9-time all-nba first team defensive player.
[/quote]

I never said MJ was only doubled in late-game situations. I clearly wrote double teams are "usually only reserved for late-game situations". And yes, I've heard of the Jordan Rules. That was an extreme strategy by the Pistons and Knicks (to a lesser extent but how often were they employed outside of high-stakes play-off games. And like codizzle said, exta attention was paid to him but he wasn't doubled the length of the court.

No, MJ didn't carry the load nearly every game. He was easily the team's most prolific scorer but he didn't have useless offensive supporting cast beyon Pippen.

I'm well aware of MJ's defensive credentials. But in all the highlights I've seen, I've never seen him spend as much time in the paint as LeBron did just last season and then swing out to the perimeter to an opposing team's best scorer.

[Roveh]

I don't think you can compare LeBron to Jordan until LeBron is done playing. Right now there is just not enough to compare them. Plus they are different kinds of players, so comparing their stats could be deceiving.

[Gordo52]

Wow Thunder traded Harden to Rockets for rookie Jeremy Lamb and Kevin Martin.

Crazy. I don't know what to think atm. Right now I'm thinking Durant is going to go off even more, but Thunder looks a little weaker. I believe in KD, but I think the Lakers are now the top team in the west, no doubt. Maybe because Harden is one of my favorite players, but Lamb looked good too.

What do you all think?
[url="http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8562868/sources-oklahoma-city-thunder-trade-james-harden-houston-rockets"]http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8562868/sources-oklahoma-city-thunder-trade-james-harden-houston-rockets[/url]

[T3hRaven]

I can't believe they traded James Harden for basically nothing. If there was any question before, there's no way the Lakers don't win the West now.

[ravens__]

I think everyone's overreacting.

OKC got Lamb who IMO is a future star, Kevin Martin who is a very capable scorer and a boatload of draft picks for Harden who after his big-time choking in the playoffs last year pulled a 'Cary Williams' and decided to turn down that contract extension by OKC.

[Token]

[quote name='ravens__' timestamp='1351427728' post='1204820']
I think everyone's overreacting.

OKC got Lamb who IMO is a future star, Kevin Martin who is a very capable scorer and a boatload of draft picks for Harden who after his big-time choking in the playoffs last year pulled a 'Cary Williams' and decided to turn down that contract extension by OKC.
[/quote]

To be fair to Harden, he only really did bad in the finals. And in the finals, he was facing the best pair of wing defenders in the NBA.

As a Rockets fan, I am happy with the trade. Lamb was my favorite prospect in the draft and he was already my favorite Rocket, but a 23 year old SG with that type of potential doesn't come along every day. I have him as the 4th best in the league right now, so I don't mind giving him the max. I have him and EG about even (although I do prefer a healthy Gordon over Harden), and EG was able to get the max.

What the trade basically is is Lamb+the Toronto pick for Harden, or at least that's how I look at it.
Kmart's an expiring contract, the Mavs pick is top 20 protected until 2017, and the other pick was a 2nd rounder (which hardly turns out well in an NBA draft unless you get extremely lucky).

I think both teams did will in the trade. We have room to offer one more max offer to another player (a lot of people speculating it could be J-Smoove), it'll be interesting to see what Morey does.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1350915413' post='1200119']
What do ya'll think of the "LeBron to the Lakers in 2014" talk? I think it's ludicrous, but you really never know.
[/quote]

Honestly I don't see it happening. 1) Neither Kobe or LeBron would stand for it IMO. 2) in terms of longevity it makes no sense to me - you're talking about going from a Heat team with a late-20s Bosh and an early 30s Wade, who both easily have 4-5 years of top play left in them provided they stay healthy, vs. a Lakers team made of Dwight Howard and 5 guys currently on that roster who have been in the league 11 years or more. I personally think the Heat could win 3-4 more titles in the next few years.

[Gordo52]

Pierce looking good. I'm watching wizards right now though, wish Wall was healthy.

[Gordo52]

Can't believe, THAT Mavs team just beat the Lakers.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1351661251' post='1206516']
Can't believe, THAT Mavs team just beat the Lakers.
[/quote]

The Lakers looked lethargic and just plain terrible tonight.

[codizzle]

Lakers So stacked they are aiming for a record season..


Oh wait!!!! Hahahaha

[T3hRaven]

If Houston didn't bet their season on a backup Center and a turnover prone gimmick at PG, I might consider them a contender.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1351661251' post='1206516']
Can't believe, THAT Mavs team just beat the Lakers.
[/quote]

Age and depth IMO. Wright, Mayo, and Collison are all young and explosive, and the Mavs bench is pretty deep. If I'm not mistaken the only member of the Lakers' starting five under 30 is Dwight. That's their Achilles heel - I don't think they're going to have much left in the tank come playoff time.

[FerrariFan87]

The Lakers look dreadful... my Heat look unbeatable... the Rockets with Lin and Harden could be formidable.

Should be an exciting 2012-2013 season!