Trade Ray Rice?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1342220289' post='1098043']
[b]It is silly to think that we aren't going to sign Ray at the end of the season if they don't get the deal done[/b]. The tag isn't the end of his career here. It's just buying time to try to find a fair number that he will agree to. Let's just move on and evaluate the backups.
[/quote]

It's not silly at all. Rice not being re-signed and becoming an UFA in 2013 is a very real possibility.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1342201536' post='1097932']
I think Ray Rice and Joe Flacco are great players, but i don't understand how both of them ask to be paid as top 5 players when we don't have a top 5 offense. It just doesn't add up. I think if you put Flacco and Rice on a team with a bad defense, then these guy would never get the hype they receieve today because they wouldn't have had the same success or "wins". Elite RBs are AP and Arian Foster (both of who don't have as great run blockers as we had, and Rice already rejected an Arian Foster type deal). Elite QBs are Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. Flacco and Rice are kidding themselves.

If you look at the teams that win a SB, they win with a good QB. So we will be forced to pay Flacco. If we pay Rice, then we have to make sacrifices on defense which doesn't make sense because we still wouldn't have an elite offense and we run the risk of no longer having an elite defense. So i do see a realistic scenario where Rice is not a Raven.

However, in a scenario where we don't have Rice, we need to get a new OC. Camerons bread and butter in the running game, if we let rice go, we are basically investing everything thats left in the passing game. You can't have an elite passing game with Cameron as your OC, just ask Drew Brees and Philip Rivers. So maybe we cut Cameron and Rice and target a good OC..[b].i hear Norv Turner is on his way out soon.[/b]
[/quote]

I dont mean to burst your bubble, but Cam runs basically the same offense that Norv runs.

[rmw10]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1342221402' post='1098055']
I dont mean to burst your bubble, but Cam runs basically the same offense that Norv runs.
[/quote]

Yeah but Norv runs it well, Cam not so much. Norv is terrible as a head coach, but he's got a brilliant offensive mind.

[codizzle]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1342221569' post='1098057']


Yeah but Norv runs it well, Cam not so much. Norv is terrible as a head coach, but he's got a brilliant offensive mind.
[/quote]
Why do people love norv turner so much? All he ever did was point three future HOF'ers in The right direction for a couple years.. The rest of his Nfl career has been terrible

[rmw10]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1342222048' post='1098058']
Why do people love norv turner so much? All he ever did was point three future HOF'ers in The right direction for a couple years.. The rest of his Nfl career has been terrible
[/quote]

I don't love him. He is great at running the west coast offense though. I'd have no issues with him coming here, but I wouldn't be mad if he didn't either. Just for the style of offense we run, he'd fit right in.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1342222733' post='1098063']
I don't love him. He is great at running the west coast offense though. I'd have no issues with him coming here, but I wouldn't be mad if he didn't either. Just for the style of offense we run, he'd fit right in.
[/quote]
He doesnt run the west coast offense. He runs the same Air Coryell that Cam runs. In fact, Cam learned it from Norv. Maybe Norv would be a better play-caller or maybe not. I wouldnt expect much better results with bringing in Norv though. I'd like to see a change in direction instead.

[rmw10]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1342225291' post='1098071']
He doesnt run the west coast offense. He runs the same Air Coryell that Cam runs. In fact, Cam learned it from Norv. Maybe Norv would be a better play-caller or maybe not. I wouldnt expect much better results with bringing in Norv though. I'd like to see a change in direction instead.
[/quote]

Air Coryell is what I meant. My mistake!

[da#1ravensfan]

I think a 4 year/ $34 deal with 21.5 million gauranteed will be a great deal with Ray Rice instead.

[berad]

[quote name='da#1ravensfan' timestamp='1342229304' post='1098080']
I think a 4 year/ $34 deal with 21.5 million gauranteed will be a great deal with Ray Rice instead.
[/quote]

I could get behind that, Rice and his agent would probably scoff though.

[The Raven]

[quote name='da#1ravensfan' timestamp='1342229304' post='1098080']
I think a 4 year/ $34 deal with 21.5 million gauranteed will be a great deal with Ray Rice instead.
[/quote]

I think that's more than fair. That'd be a great deal

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1342221569' post='1098057']
Yeah but Norv runs it well, Cam not so much. Norv is terrible as a head coach, but he's got a brilliant offensive mind.
[/quote]
Norv Just has really good players. That San Diego team is stacked.

[rmw10]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1342235463' post='1098097']

Norv Just has really good players. That San Diego team is stacked.
[/quote]

True, however he's made it a point to push for players that fit his offense. Cam hasn't. He makes players try to fit in positions that aren't their strong suit. Obviously it's easier as a head coach, but Norv is still superior to Cam at running the air coryell

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1342235830' post='1098099']
True, however he's made it a point to push for players that fit his offense. Cam hasn't. He makes players try to fit in positions that aren't their strong suit. Obviously it's easier as a head coach, but Norv is still superior to Cam at running the air coryell
[/quote]
If we had San Diego's talent we'd put up really big numbers.

[Blex64]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1342201536' post='1097932']
I think Ray Rice and Joe Flacco are great players, but i don't understand how both of them ask to be paid as top 5 players when we don't have a top 5 offense. It just doesn't add up. I think if you put Flacco and Rice on a team with a bad defense, then these guy would never get the hype they receieve today because they wouldn't have had the same success or "wins"[b]. Elite RBs are AP and Arian Foster (both of who don't have as great run blockers as we had, and Rice already rejected an Arian Foster type deal). Elite QBs are Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. Flacco and Rice are kidding themslves[/b][/quote]

Not really sure where you're coming from here. The Texans had Vonta Leach during Foster's breakout 2010 season, and had the best offensive line in all of football last season. Foster has benefitted from substantially better run blocking then Rice over the course of his career. AP is arguably the best RB in the league, but he's had a lot of injury issues recently, and certainly isn't worth the money he's making. Yes, Rice should accept a Foster/McCoy/Lynch type deal. I think he will eventually, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think he's a top 5 running back in this league. Flacco is a bit of a different story, but he's not going to make Brady/Brees/etc. type money unless he really breaks out this year. Such a breakout is also a definite possibility. Right now Flacco is likely looking at a deal between the big money QB's and what Sanchize and Fitzpatrick just signed.

That being said, negotiations like this get inflated because of the scumbag agents we have running around.
If you look at the teams that win a SB, they win with a good QB. So we will be forced to pay Flacco. If we pay Rice, then we have to make sacrifices on defense which doesn't make sense because we still wouldn't have an elite offense and we run the risk of no longer having an elite defense. So i do see a realistic scenario where Rice is not a Raven.

[quote]However, in a scenario where we don't have Rice, we need to get a new OC. Camerons bread and butter in the running game, if we let rice go, we are basically investing everything thats left in the passing game. You can't have an elite passing game with Cameron as your OC, just ask Drew Brees and Philip Rivers. So maybe we cut Cameron and Rice and target a good OC...i hear Norv Turner is on his way out soon.
[/quote]

Why the hell would we cut Rice? Fans have been asking for Cameron's head for two seasons but he doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

[arnie_uk]

what happens if RR holds out? sure we cant work out a deal after Jul 16th, so what excatly does RR gain from holding out except losing money every day. I know Reed will gain advantage from it, but if we cant work a deal with RR after jul 16, what does he gain?

[The Raven]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1342276602' post='1098151']
what happens if RR holds out? sure we cant work out a deal after Jul 16th, so what excatly does RR gain from holding out except losing money every day. I know Reed will gain advantage from it, but if we cant work a deal with RR after jul 16, what does he gain?
[/quote]

He doesn't gain anything. He loses. He'd be making a mistake, especially if he (knock on wood) got hurt this year. As a running back, he should want to get some security and not hold out, only to be stuck with the tag. This is a battle he will lose.

[rmw10]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1342277502' post='1098154']
He doesn't gain anything. He loses. He'd be making a mistake, especially if he (knock on wood) got hurt this year. As a running back, he should want to get some security and not hold out, only to be stuck with the tag. This is a battle he will lose.
[/quote]

Agreed. It's a risk for everyone on the tag to hold out, but especially for running backs. With the lack of longevity of their careers and the higher risk of injury of running backs, turning down guaranteed money is incredibly risky.

[arnie_uk]

I don't understand why he would hold out though. After Monday we can't give him a long term deal so why is it even an option for someone on the franchise tag?

He literally gains zero, nothing from holding out. whereas it could force us to cave into ed reed

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1337872793' post='1081830']You must have missed the whole season when Ray Rice carried our offense on his back AGAINST MEDIOCRE DEFENSES, while we relied on Flacco to win when the going gets tough
[/quote]


+1, I agree!

*evil laughter*

[PurpleReign92]

I don't know if we have enough money to keep him but we will have a back up plan with some very good blocking.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1342282633' post='1098169']
I don't understand why he would hold out though. After Monday we can't give him a long term deal so why is it even an option for someone on the franchise tag?

He literally gains zero, nothing from holding out. whereas it could force us to cave into ed reed
[/quote]
The only thing he gains is not getting hurt. I doubt he holds out from any games, but he may miss some training camp.

[CapoRocky]

I am fully comfortable with whatever Ray decides to do. He is a very good running back and receiver out of the backfield. Baring injury, he should hold up for another 6 to 8 years and play at a high level for 5 or 6 years. We would be making a mistake not to sign him for at least 5 years. The money is the holdup. His agent knows that this might be his only big contract and wants to make the most of it. Let's hope for a last minute miracle. Brees signed. Who knows what might happen by Monday?

[T3hRaven]

So we're what, a little over 48 hours away from being safe from overpaying Rice.

[JO_75]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1342292584' post='1098219']
So we're what, a little over 48 hours away from being safe from overpaying Rice.
[/quote]

Pretty much but all I know is that I'm now worried about Matt Forte. I read Forte's deal with the Bears is close to be done and I'm sure that will impact what Rice's agent will ask for.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1342295005' post='1098224']
Pretty much but all I know is that I'm now worried about Matt Forte. I read Forte's deal with the Bears is close to be done and I'm sure that will impact what Rice's agent will ask for.
[/quote]

All we can do is put faith that Ozzie will stay the course. RB is not a position to invest a lot of money in if you want to win. Rice is not going to get what he wants, he'll be gone after this season, and the team will be better for it in the long run.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1342303055' post='1098248']
All we can do is put faith that Ozzie will stay the course. RB is not a position to invest a lot of money in if you want to win. Rice is not going to get what he wants, he'll be gone after this season, and the team will be better for it in the long run.
[/quote]
It'll be sad to see him go though.

[ravefan52]

I love Rice and i would like for him to be in Baltimore for the next few years but i dont know if it will happen and i do like this bernard pierce guy

[GrimCoconut]

I think the Ravens and Rice are both waiting for Forte's deal. When that's done, I believe we can finish Rice. The sooner the better I think.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1342367025' post='1098359']
I think the Ravens and Rice are both waiting for Forte's deal. When that's done, I believe we can finish Rice. The sooner the better I think.
[/quote]
I dont think Forte's deal has any impact. McCoy and Foster have already set the market value for an elite RB, and Forte also has the injury history that is not a factor in Rice's negotiations.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1342372414' post='1098381']

I dont think Forte's deal has any impact. McCoy and Foster have already set the market value for an elite RB, and Forte also has the injury history that is not a factor in Rice's negotiations.
[/quote]
I agree but after Forte there is no RB left and there would be less to delay negotiations. If Forte, McCoy, & Foster are all extended then the market is dead-set and Rice's value would be essentially determined. I know Forte has injuries, but he means as much to the Bears as Rice does to us.