Trade Ray Rice?

[display name]

[quote name='Ravens4Real' timestamp='1339138364' post='1086969']
Let's keep this in perspective. A bunch of people in this thread are saying that RR does not have a long shelf life and is not a good player. Are you guys dumb or just delirious? He missed three games in 4 years which were all in his rookie season. For three years he has been a stud! In 2009 and 2011, if he wasn't here, the Ravens would not have made the playoffs! You think we would have made it this year with Flaccos great regular season? (sarcasm). You guys can fault his playoff performances but guess what, if the line cant block for him then he cant run. You guys Are going to say he had even a remote chance of doing well against the Pats last year? Our line got mauled in that game.Let's get real, you guys are hating on the man because there is a real possibility that this is his last year as a Raven. He deserves his money just like you and I. The point boils down to, why does he deserve to get paid like a scrub RB when he has proven he is top 5 at his position? He has a family support and a life to live beyond football. I would be upset of I was in his position.
[/quote]
Agree for the most part, but I also think the time for Ray Rice to hold out was when he was making just 500K, not 7.5 mill or however much the tag pays him.

[CapoRocky]

It is a rookie or second year player that gains the most if Ray sits out the preseason. When all is said and done, number 27 will line up behind Flacco on MNF.

[Militant X 1]

[color=#4b0082][size=4][font=trebuchet ms, helvetica, sans-serif][b]i hope that they get his deal done soon![/b][/font][/size][/color]

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Ravens4Real' timestamp='1339138364' post='1086969']
Let's keep this in perspective. A bunch of people in this thread are saying that RR does not have a long shelf life and is not a good player. Are you guys dumb or just delirious? He missed three games in 4 years which were all in his rookie season. For three years he has been a stud! In 2009 and 2011, if he wasn't here, the Ravens would not have made the playoffs! You think we would have made it this year with Flaccos great regular season? (sarcasm). You guys can fault his playoff performances but guess what, if the line cant block for him then he cant run. You guys Are going to say he had even a remote chance of doing well against the Pats last year? Our line got mauled in that game.Let's get real, you guys are hating on the man because there is a real possibility that this is his last year as a Raven. He deserves his money just like you and I. The point boils down to, why does he deserve to get paid like a scrub RB when he has proven he is top 5 at his position? He has a family support and a life to live beyond football. I would be upset of I was in his position.
[/quote]
Some of you guys, just don't know how to read. Show me one quote where anyone said Rice is not a good player. And as for his shelf life, well it comes with the territory. Most RBs are only dominant for a few years before they start to break down.

We all know Rice is a great player, some of you guys think he is worth way more than he actually is though, and that's the bottom line. It isn't prudent o overpay at the RB position. We probably wouldn't get elite production out of anyone else on the roster, but lots of teams do well with RB by committee.

Rice will be a Raven this year, but unless he is willing to come down a bit and take what the team is offering he will either find himself Tagged again (if Joe can get a deal done) or a Free Agent after this season.

[Purple Nurple]

There's clearly a glitch in the matrix.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' timestamp='1339186116' post='1087177']
There's clearly a glitch in the matrix.
[/quote]
Most definitely.

[Radinho84]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1339092270' post='1086693']
That a deal hasn't actually been finalized doesn't mean the front office hasn't tried to re-sign Joe long-term this off-season. Negotiations for long-term contracts are long processes, especially with this front office.

That Rice is "special" is the reasoning behind preferring to see him get locked up this off-season over Flacco? I don't get it...
[/quote]
the reasoning is that i think rice and flacco are both really important for our offense. but i don´t think that rice is that easy to replace like some people here seem to believe. he is so valuable both in the running game and the passing game.

that does´t mean that i think rice is more important than flacco. joe is our qb. and he is a good one. i want to see them both getting longterm deals. i just would like to see rice getting locked up as soon as possible...

[baltravens]

Trade Ray Rice? Why not trade Joe Flacco, too?SMH
Just because contract negotiations are being exercised does not give a good reason for anyone to entertain the notion of getting rid of a main part of our offense. Rice's and Flacco's contracts will be done in due time, and there is no reason to harbor anger toward our RB because he is in hard negotiations with Mgmt.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='baltravens' timestamp='1339439209' post='1088031']
Trade Ray Rice? Why not trade Joe Flacco, too?SMH
Just because contract negotiations are being exercised does not give a good reason for anyone to entertain the notion of getting rid of a main part of our offense. Rice's and Flacco's contracts will be done in due time, and there is no reason to harbor anger toward our RB because he is in hard negotiations with Mgmt.
[/quote]
Great post! Trade the backbone of our offense?? Come on......

All this Rice bashing is getting out of hand.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='baltravens' timestamp='1339439209' post='1088031']
Trade Ray Rice? Why not trade Joe Flacco, too?SMH
Just because contract negotiations are being exercised does not give a good reason for anyone to entertain the notion of getting rid of a main part of our offense. Rice's and Flacco's contracts will be done in due time, and there is no reason to harbor anger toward our RB because he is in hard negotiations with Mgmt.
[/quote]

Anger does not drive this proposed scenario, logic does. If one can't keep a valuable player long term, it is best to attempt to receive some value for him. No one with a valid opinion suggested trading Flacco. Quarterbacks are valuable and difficult to find, running backs are not.

[baltravens]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1339631859' post='1089282']
Anger does not drive this proposed scenario, logic does. If one can't keep a valuable player long term, it is best to attempt to receive some value for him. No one with a valid opinion suggested trading Flacco. Quarterbacks are valuable and difficult to find, running backs are not.
[/quote]
O.K., give me the main reason why you are considering trading Rice, a focal point of our offense. Rice and Flacco make the offense go, and the thrust of criticism should be leveled at Cam Cameron, but that is for another thread.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='baltravens' timestamp='1339693422' post='1089608']
O.K., give me the main reason why you are considering trading Rice, a focal point of our offense. Rice and Flacco make the offense go, and the thrust of criticism should be leveled at Cam Cameron, but that is for another thread.
[/quote]

Read the first post in the thread. The next one of two of mine will certainly provide any clarification. I believe one of them outlines how Rice being the focal point of the offense is a mistake in and of itself, but I said I'm done rehashing the exact same thing in this thread for those who don't take the time to read before whining and calling it crazy.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='baltravens' timestamp='1339693422' post='1089608']
O.K., give me the main reason why you are considering trading Rice, a focal point of our offense. Rice and Flacco make the offense go, and the thrust of criticism should be leveled at Cam Cameron, but that is for another thread.
[/quote]

Here's the reason. The front office WILL NOT pay Rice a contract on the level of Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson, both of which were grossly inflated. Rice may not want anything BUT that, and he may be willing to walk if another team will pay him that. So would you rather him leave in free agency and get nothing for him?

[baltravens]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1339703933' post='1089738']
Here's the reason. The front office WILL NOT pay Rice a contract on the level of Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson, both of which were grossly inflated. Rice may not want anything BUT that, and he may be willing to walk if another team will pay him that. So would you rather him leave in free agency and get nothing for him?
[/quote]
I am saying pay the man. He is not the best RB in the NFL, but reward him for his production.

[baltravens]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1339703512' post='1089730']
Read the first post in the thread. The next one of two of mine will certainly provide any clarification. I believe one of them outlines how Rice being the focal point of the offense is a mistake in and of itself, but I said I'm done rehashing the exact same thing in this thread for those who don't take the time to read before whining and calling it crazy.
[/quote]
No good reason, we'll keep him and hopefully get that Super Bowl appearance.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='baltravens' timestamp='1339732567' post='1090004']
I am saying pay the man. He is not the best RB in the NFL, but reward for his production.
[/quote]

AT 13-14 million a season? Because that's what we're talking about, and that means cutting other players to pay that salary. Somewhere between 8-10 million is the market price for an ELITE running back, MJD, Foster, McCoy all in that range. CJ2K and Peterson's deals were terrible - the Vikings won 3 of AP's 13 starts last year, against Arizona, Washington, and Carolina. In 2010 the top 7 rushers in the league finished with a minimum 1200 yards rushing and 1600 yards from scrimmage - only 2 of those teams made the playoffs and 3 of them had a record of 6-10, Minnesota, Houston, and Tennessee. Running backs are NOT as valuable as they were 10 years ago, so just because 2 stupid teams overpaid doesn't mean we should as well.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='baltravens' timestamp='1339732969' post='1090007']
No good reason, we'll keep him and hopefully get that Super Bowl appearance.
[/quote]

Your logic is flawless. Sentimentality and overspending always wins championships. My mistake.

[display name]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1337860932' post='1081749']
You must have missed the Steelers game, and the playoffs where Rice did [i]absolutely nothing[/i], and Joe carried us to victory/put us in position for victory.
[/quote]
We all knew the Houston Texans D was tough, but NEP suprised me. I see where the poster is coming from, but I don't think it'll happen. I'd pay RR $10 mil a year. If he won't take that, then he could very well be gone. However, Rice was never a Chris Johnson. Also, you've got to remember that this is 1 of the bes RBs in the NFL who kept his mouth shut on $555K for 4 years. hint, hint

[Hardbaugh]

Instead of trading the best player on the Ravens offense they should float Flacco out there for trade. Flacco will get humbled with the poor offers (from his comments about being the best he needs it) or maybe the Ravens can sucker another team and get some value for him.

Either way it's win/win for the Ravens.

[MTRavensFan]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1340851142' post='1093956']
Also, you've got to remember that this is 1 of the bes RBs in the NFL who kept his mouth shut on $555K for 4 years.
[/quote]
Agreed.
I forget which announcer said "RR quietly renogotiating his contract" during another stellar performance in the middle of the DeSean Jackson embarrassment.
When you talk about heart and character on top of tremendous skill, do you honestly think you're going to find anyone comparable at a discount?
This is not an adversarial situation, it is a respectful negotiation by two sides who honestly want to stay together. Anyone suggesting divorce is delusional.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1340897421' post='1094077']
Instead of trading the best player on the Ravens offense they should float Flacco out there for trade. Flacco will get humbled with the poor offers (from his comments about being the best he needs it) or maybe the Ravens can sucker another team and get some value for him.

Either way it's win/win for the Ravens.
[/quote]

Then what? We jump on the QB carousel again and suffer through inconsistent seasons while we try to find a guy stable enough to help win us games. Its a lose/lose situation in my eyes.

RB is much easier to replace than QB.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1340897421' post='1094077']
Instead of trading the best player on the Ravens offense they should float Flacco out there for trade. Flacco will get humbled with the poor offers (from his comments about being the best he needs it) or maybe the Ravens can sucker another team and get some value for him.

Either way it's win/win for the Ravens.-
[/quote]
You are either trolling or you dont understand how today's football works. QB is the most important position on the field, and even if you think Flacco is just a "mediocre" QB he is far more irreplacable than Rice even though Rice is one of the best RBs in the NFL.

[RavensWin09]

how far apart money wise are they right now? we've only got a couple days left

[ravensfan2430]

[quote name='RavensWin09' timestamp='1342197060' post='1097900']
how far apart money wise are they right now? we've only got a couple days left
[/quote]

Somewhere between $50 and $100 dollars

[rmw10]

[quote name='ravensfan2430' timestamp='1342197570' post='1097904']


Somewhere between $50 and $100 dollars
[/quote]

I laughed much harder than I should have at this.

[cobrajet]

[quote name='ravensfan2430' timestamp='1342197570' post='1097904']
Somewhere between $50 and $100 dollars
[/quote]
I wonder if Ray Rice likes steamed crabs and some cold brews, I would suit up for that right now, especially if it was AUCE

[justifythegame]

I think Ray Rice and Joe Flacco are great players, but i don't understand how both of them ask to be paid as top 5 players when we don't have a top 5 offense. It just doesn't add up. I think if you put Flacco and Rice on a team with a bad defense, then these guy would never get the hype they receieve today because they wouldn't have had the same success or "wins". Elite RBs are AP and Arian Foster (both of who don't have as great run blockers as we had, and Rice already rejected an Arian Foster type deal). Elite QBs are Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. Flacco and Rice are kidding themselves.

If you look at the teams that win a SB, they win with a good QB. So we will be forced to pay Flacco. If we pay Rice, then we have to make sacrifices on defense which doesn't make sense because we still wouldn't have an elite offense and we run the risk of no longer having an elite defense. So i do see a realistic scenario where Rice is not a Raven.

However, in a scenario where we don't have Rice, we need to get a new OC. Camerons bread and butter in the running game, if we let rice go, we are basically investing everything thats left in the passing game. You can't have an elite passing game with Cameron as your OC, just ask Drew Brees and Philip Rivers. So maybe we cut Cameron and Rice and target a good OC...i hear Norv Turner is on his way out soon.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1342201536' post='1097932']
I think Ray Rice and Joe Flacco are great players, but i don't understand how both of them ask to be paid as top 5 players when we don't have a top 5 offense. It just doesn't add up. I think if you put Flacco and Rice on a team with a bad defense, then these guy would never get the hype they receieve today because they wouldn't have had the same success or "wins". Elite RBs are AP and [b]Arian Foster (both of who don't have as great run blockers as we had, and Rice already rejected an Arian Foster type deal). [/b]Elite QBs are Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees[b].[/b] Flacco and Rice are kidding themselves.

If you look at the teams that win a SB, they win with a good QB. So we will be forced to pay Flacco. If we pay Rice, then we have to make sacrifices on defense which doesn't make sense because we still wouldn't have an elite offense and we run the risk of no longer having an elite defense. So i do see a realistic scenario where Rice is not a Raven.

[b]However, in a scenario where we don't have Rice, we need to get a new OC. Camerons bread and butter in the running game, if we let rice go, we are basically investing everything thats left in the passing game. You can't have an elite passing game with Cameron as your OC, just ask Drew Brees and Philip Rivers. So maybe we cut Cameron and Rice and target a good OC...i hear Norv Turner is on his way out soon.[/b]
[/quote]

Foster is definitely a better pure runner than Rice, but he's also the beneficiary of better run-blocking.

There's some seriously flawed reasoning in your last paragraph.

Ray Rice isn't going to be the last Ravens RB on this team a lot of evaluators in the NFL consider elite. On top of that, you can have a good running game with more than one quality RB. I'd say it's better for running games to be efficient in churning out yards in today's game as opposed to gaining them through a lot of carries.

The Brees/Rivers comment makes little sense. The vertical weapons Brees has seen in NO blow the ones he had in SD out of the water. And Rivers played [i]one[/i] full season under Cam (his first as a starter). We all know Cam has his faults, but it's not solely on him that Brees and Rivers didn't put juggernaut stats during his time there.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='ravensfan2430' timestamp='1342197570' post='1097904']
Somewhere between $50 and $100 dollars
[/quote]
Honestly if we wants that he can get it somewhere else.

[CapoRocky]

It is silly to think that we aren't going to sign Ray at the end of the season if they don't get the deal done. The tag isn't the end of his career here. It's just buying time to try to find a fair number that he will agree to. Let's just move on and evaluate the backups.