Trade Ray Rice?

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1338061258' post='1082772']
Honestly , i wouldn't mind trading him for a great wr.

First WR that comes to mind is , Larry Fitz.

I think alot of people would like that trade but i dont think the Cards would trade him, they would be stupid if they did.

Larry Fitz would make an immediate impact on this Offense and i truly believe we would be unstoppable. Rbs can always be replaced , even Ray Rice but Great Wrers are a diamond in the Rough.
[/quote]I don't think the Ravens would be willing to pick up Fitz's contract. I for one would love to see us trade for a franchise LT like Long.

[PeRK82]

This Offense will never change if we keep spending the same money on the same positions and none in other positions.
What can you really expect out of Flacco if doesnt have anyone to throw to (not knocking any of our WRers at all, trust me but look at other known WRers , even in the Drafts and look who we get)

Same goes with the O LINE, as soon as we get a set of guys that start to mess well or show signs of it, we end up losing one or switching them to different positions cough , OHER, cough cough. It's kinda getting old honestly, pushing on insanity. Keep doing the same thing expecting a different out come.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1338091768' post='1082862']
This Offense will never change if we keep spending the same money on the same positions and none in other positions.
What can you really expect out of Flacco if doesnt have anyone to throw to (not knocking any of our WRers at all, trust me but look at other known WRers , even in the Drafts and look who we get)

Same goes with the O LINE, as soon as we get a set of guys that start to mess well or show signs of it, we end up losing one or switching them to different positions cough , OHER, cough cough. It's kinda getting old honestly, pushing on insanity. Keep doing the same thing expecting a different out come.
[/quote]

This offense will never change as long as Cam Cameron is in charge of it. This team can't get better when we're using offensive concepts that are outdated and play calling that actively prevents our players from looking good. Flacco won't do it, but I wish that his contract negotiations involve getting that idiot fired. Somebody has to try to save the team, but that's beside the point of this topic.

I'm done rehashing the same things to counter everyone in this topic though. It's like some people look at the title and ignore the outlining of the argument.

[Rav'n Maniac]

I basically said earlier in this thread that I would trade Rice if the price was right. But, I am also considering the possibility of him having a monster season receiving since we now have "uninjured" speed at both outside WR positions. Underneath and the middle of the field could be wide open for him to exploit.

I guess, best case would be for both to reach an equitable decision that could keep him here and allow us to take care of the other players that deserve their paydays as well. What ever the teams decision, I'll support it.

[Radinho84]

sometimes one can only shake his head about some people in here....

just because ray rice wants to see some money now you want to trade him?

are you aware about the fact that he is one of our most important weapons? he is only 25 years ols. he has about 5 years left on a high level. and for the concerns about his health. he wash´t really injured during his time in bmore. he is very small but has an impressive body loaded with muscles. he may not be a power runningback. but he is the best at what he is doing. he lead the league in yards from scrimmage two years in a row. i don´t see any changes in that.

i also don´t see us becoming a pass first team. we don´t have the guys for playing like that.

pay this young man!!!!

[tigerave]

We need to really get Rice paid big time.Cant afford to lose him.

[DieHardRavensFan52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1337860932' post='1081749']
You must have missed the Steelers game, and the playoffs where Rice did [i]absolutely nothing[/i], and Joe carried us to victory/put us in position for victory.
[/quote] I think it's funny Rice gets this tag, and where are Flacco's excuses for his half dozen(or so) playoff games as mediocre or average at best? Remember the INT Flacco threw against NE? if Brady doesn't return the favor with his turnover, we wouldn't have been in a position to even come back. I love Flacco as a player but I feel people baby him and are too sensitive when it comes to his critics.

I wouldn't trade Rice without a good replacement. Pierce, Allen, and Benson aren't cutting it

[rmw10]

[quote name='DieHardRavensFan52' timestamp='1338240109' post='1083323']
I think it's funny Rice gets this tag, and where are Flacco's excuses for his half dozen(or so) playoff games as mediocre or average at best? Remember the INT Flacco threw against NE? if Brady doesn't return the favor with his turnover, we wouldn't have been in a position to even come back. I love Flacco as a player but I feel people baby him and are too sensitive when it comes to his critics.

I wouldn't trade Rice without a good replacement. Pierce, Allen, and Benson aren't cutting it
[/quote]

We know Flacco has his bad games. Everyone does. But the fact is that he is the best QB the Ravens have ever had. It's much harder to find a franchise QB than a RB. It's much harder to pull a superstar QB out of the 5th round than it is a superstar RB.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='DieHardRavensFan52' timestamp='1338240109' post='1083323']
I think it's funny Rice gets this tag, and where are Flacco's excuses for his half dozen(or so) playoff games as mediocre or average at best? Remember the INT Flacco threw against NE? if Brady doesn't return the favor with his turnover, we wouldn't have been in a position to even come back. I love Flacco as a player but I feel people baby him and are too sensitive when it comes to his critics.

I wouldn't trade Rice without a good replacement. Pierce, Allen, and Benson aren't cutting it
[/quote]

Flacco has been a significantly improved postseason player since 2010. His INT was bad, yes, but aside of that he did the best he could. Rice has arguably only ever had the one playoff game in his entire career where he's performed anywhere near the level we expect of him. I wouldn't say that Pierce and Allen "aren't cutting it". I wouldn't feel entirely confident in them right now but they can definitely change that opinion.

[The Raven]

[quote name='DieHardRavensFan52' timestamp='1338240109' post='1083323']
I think it's funny Rice gets this tag, and where are Flacco's excuses for his half dozen(or so) playoff games as mediocre or average at best? Remember the INT Flacco threw against NE? if Brady doesn't return the favor with his turnover, we wouldn't have been in a position to even come back. I love Flacco as a player but I feel people baby him and are too sensitive when it comes to his critics.

I wouldn't trade Rice without a good replacement. Pierce, Allen, and Benson aren't cutting it
[/quote]

You can say ifs all you want, but it doesn't erase the fact that they happened. Yes, it was a horrible decision by Joe. But even Peyton Manning threw a game ending pick six in the Superbowl a few years back. Also in regards to his interceptions this year, we played 11 games against Top 10 defenses. When you look at it that way, it doesn't look as bad, now does it?

You don't know that Pierce or Allen won't cut it. Looking at Pierce's game film and stats in college, I think he has a very good chance to do more than make the cut.

[Alexir]

Running backs have little trade value these days. Dime a dozen and you don't wanna trade a guy who will be a free agent next year because a team is going to want more than 1 year out of him.

That being said, if Pierce and company start getting the ball more and rice doesn't get a contract by 16th of July, then yeah I can see a small possibility Ozzie will trade him to an NFC contender by week 8 deadline. Not a huge chance, but hey, anything is possible.

[ellicottraven]

I see where you are coming from, but I think you come from a really bad place! Your intentions are Ravens' centric and noble I am certain, but, really? You think Benson would be an adequate replacement for Ray Rice? He has been the safety valve in several key down situations for Joe Flacco. Without him, Joe may struggle for the first few games till he settles down, but that scenarion is something we cannot accept.

So with all due respect to you, I say drop it!

[reediddy]

[quote name='usmccharles' timestamp='1337840363' post='1081719']
honestly its not that bad of an idea, but you run into some problems:

- Rbs are not as important as they used to be, getting something that we think is fair prolly wouldnt happen.
- who would you trade him for? to throw the idea out you should at least have some names to throw out there, even if its just for fun
- RR was responsible for 35% i think of our offense (saw something on espn today actually) and has led the league since 09 in total yards from scrimage. you cant just replace that, so to plug in benson for this year, we would see a huge drop off in production for the offense unless we got an elite wr and thats not happening.
-say we trade for someone, then that guy just flat out fails...ie a lee evans situation. what would you be saying then?


Im a RR supported and think he should get his money, 4/40mill would be fine by me. Alot of people make the arguement hes not that great of a "runner" yet he was second in the nfl in yards. I think why hes so great is because hes a dual threat, even if hes not the best runner, he makes up for that in the passing game, id much rather have a dual threat thats great at both then just a pure runner. Regauardless, this topic will get beat to death...again. I want to keep RR, i think his next two years will be his biggest, with us expanding the passing game just opens our offense up even more, especially for him. It will be a huge mistake if we get rid of him...Book It.
[/quote]

Though it's not the darling position it used to be, there would surely be a handful of teams who would make a significant offer, one that Oz would probably strongly consider.

Some RB-needy teams:

Indy (no one worth trading for, probably some picks) but dang, can you imagine him lining up with Luck if the dude pans out? Yikes

Denver (they aren't sold on Moreno, Willis is on the downside of his career, although they do have a young Rice-type talent in Hillman). Again, unsure of who we could snag from them, maybe Elvis and change is worth it?

Green Bay, although pairing him with Rodgers would be devastating. Give us Clay Matthews lol

Arizona, as I feel they aren't completely sold on Beanie Wells and might be growing frustrated with his injuries, lack of production. I'll let you guess who I think they should trade us...

Those are just off the top of my head and of course not all these are plausible scenarios.

I do agree with you on your last point though. RR was a massive portion of our offense last year, but with the way offenses are changing, the question is, Are we going to follow suit? Instead of investing big money in a fragile, essentially short-term position (given the average health of the position), we could invest in other need areas (WR, OLB). A stopgap player like Benson would of course be a substantial decline from RR's production, but if we trust Flacco enough to fully hand him the reins and turn this into a full-fledged passing offense, do we need that much production from the RB position? Guys like Pierce and Anthony Allen can develop as well, giving us a good 3 to 4 years of solid RB play, which is all the good passing teams need.

We've already seen how the returns on these big investments can backfire (AP and CJ2K obviously) and we've seen teams like Chicago be hesitant to pay the big money because of that very issue. Hence you see Chi bring in a solid, consistent, powerful back in Michael Bush who can give you 18-20 carries a game with a 4 yard average. At the same time, you don't have to worry about his durability as much as you do with Forte. At the same time, you bring in a guy like Brandon Marshall to fortify your passing attack, following suit with the teams in the division.

At the end of the day this is an interesting issue and I'm so glad someone brought it up because I've been contemplating it for a while too. I think we are obviously better with RR but let's see what happens.

[reediddy]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1337884440' post='1081957']
All the more reason not to give him upwards of 30 million guaranteed.... The kind of touches he's gotten through college and the pros DO NOT bode well for a running back of his stature and build. If Rice gets the deal he wants we'd be one awkward cut away from a cap crisis.
[/quote]

That's a huge point, his stature. I mean I'll trust a guy like AP taking a 20-30 carry beating per game, but with the touches that RR gets, his shelf life is certainly shorter than average...

[reediddy]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1338190968' post='1083137']
sometimes one can only shake his head about some people in here....

just because ray rice wants to see some money now you want to trade him?

are you aware about the fact that he is one of our most important weapons? he is only 25 years ols. he has about 5 years left on a high level. and for the concerns about his health. he wash´t really injured during his time in bmore. he is very small but has an impressive body loaded with muscles. he may not be a power runningback. but he is the best at what he is doing. he lead the league in yards from scrimmage two years in a row. i don´t see any changes in that.

i also don´t see us becoming a pass first team. we don´t have the guys for playing like that.

pay this young man!!!!
[/quote]

It's not just any money he's asking for here. This is AP money. You think RR can take a hit on 25-30 touches a game at his stature and have the same shelf life as AP? Doubtful. Of course he is one of our best weapons, and yes I don't think we have the tools to be a pass-first team at this point in time, but to pay RR with AP money is absurd to me.

[SWAYNE11]

Entering the season, the Ravens are using roughly 20% of their salary cap dollars on two players (Rice & Flacco), so something has to give. Rice has been a good player for the Ravens, but in my opinion he is at best an equal to that of Foster and McCoy. Now don't get me wrong, I love the Ravens and I like Ray Rice a lot, but he seems to "disappear" during games sometimes. In my opinion, a great player plays well all year long and is consistent for the entire year.

Rice tore up the Browns (204 yards) and the Bengals (191 yards) in two games last season; but, he rushed for 60 yards or less in 6 games...SIX mind you...during the regular season last year...Titans (43 yards), Jaguars (28 yards), Steelers (43 yards), Seahawks (27 yards), 49'ers (59 yards), and the Chargers (57 yards)...and in none of those games, did he have more than 55 yards receiving. Not to mention, he didn't look very "seller" in the playoff games against the Texans and the Patriots either.

Now some will say it's the system, or it's Cam Cameron's fault...but I say if you consider yourself an "elite player" who deserves "elite cash" then you need to be consistent and put up "elite numbers" (all of the time, not in a handful of games). If you get your hands on the ball...then you need to find a way to make something happen...and sometimes, Rice doesn't do that.

Let's face it, good running backs are easier to find then good quarterbacks or good wide receivers. I would like to see the Ravens resign Rice, but not by mortgaging our future. I think Ozzie Newsome is a savvy football guy who understands this (heck, he wrote the book on this), and IF the Ravens can't come to terms with Rice on a long-term deal that MAKES SENSE, then I hope they play him under the "franchise tag" this season and trade him in the off-season for a plethora of draft picks.

This might not be a popular thing to say, but as a reminder....years ago, Cowboy fans (no I'm not one of them) hated when their beloved Herschel Walker was traded to Minnesota for 4 draft picks (but those picks turned into Emmitt Smith, Russell Maryland, Kevin Smith, and Darren Woodsen)...not to mention 3 Super Bowls titles followed. Now I'm not suggesting that the same thing would happen if the Ravens traded Ray Rice, but with the Ravens great draft record...who knows???? All I'm saying is that running backs have a short life span and locking Ray Rice up to a long term deal may not be in the best interest for the Ravens.

[usoutpost31]

[quote name='SWAYNE11' timestamp='1338321775' post='1083666']

Rice tore up the Browns (204 yards) and the Bengals (191 yards) in two games last season; but, he rushed for 60 yards or less in 6 games...SIX mind you...during the regular season last year...Titans (43 yards), Jaguars (28 yards), Steelers (43 yards), Seahawks (27 yards), 49'ers (59 yards), and the Chargers (57 yards)...and in none of those games, did he have more than 55 yards receiving.[/quote]

Probably worth noting he had a combined 75 carries in those six games. In the other ten games, he averaged 21 carries, 111 yards, a 5.2 YPC and we went 10-0....there were other factors at play but this again supporting the notion that the Ravens are a good team when Rice is involved.

[The Raven]

Can we just sign him to a 5 year, 45 million dollar contract with 26 guaranteed and call it a day? It seems so simple!

[scrock]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1338091768' post='1082862']
This Offense will never change if we keep spending the same money on the same positions and none in other positions.
What can you really expect out of Flacco if doesnt have anyone to throw to (not knocking any of our WRers at all, trust me but look at other known WRers , even in the Drafts and look who we get)

Same goes with the O LINE, as soon as we get a set of guys that start to mess well or show signs of it, we end up losing one or switching them to different positions cough , OHER, cough cough. It's kinda getting old honestly, pushing on insanity. Keep doing the same thing expecting a different out come.
[/quote]

The Ravens have worked to bring in more talent to surround Joe, they've done a decent job of it so far. I expect to see solid growth this year from Torrey, DIckson, and Pitta....even LaQuan and Doss to some extent. To me the OL is key, if the OL can be solid as a group then the offense will be successful.

This trade Ray Rice topic is a little absurd, Ray will get his new contract done eventually

Steve B said he wants to strike a balance between the offense and defense but he doesn't want the defense to fall off like other teams who invest very heavily in the offense...I like this approach

[PeRK82]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1338093630' post='1082870']
This offense will never change as long as Cam Cameron is in charge of it. This team can't get better when we're using offensive concepts that are outdated and play calling that actively prevents our players from looking good. Flacco won't do it, but I wish that his contract negotiations involve getting that idiot fired. Somebody has to try to save the team, but that's beside the point of this topic.

I'm done rehashing the same things to counter everyone in this topic though. It's like some people look at the title and ignore the outlining of the argument.
[/quote]


LOLOL buddy, you are not alone at all with wanting CAM Canned. Trust me, 85 % if not more want him gone. Honestly, it just makes me wonder who is the H.Coach really in Baltimore. Cam or Harbs ??? I think Harbs. wants to keep Cam around to hide his own deficiency (Short comings)

[scrock]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1338331623' post='1083752']
LOLOL buddy, you are not alone at all with wanting CAM Canned. Trust me, 85 % if not more want him gone. Honestly, it just makes me wonder who is the H.Coach really in Baltimore. Cam or Harbs ??? [b]I think Harbs. wants to keep Cam around to hide his own deficiency (Short comings)[/b]
[/quote]

....do you really think that? Or do you just not like Cam and the HC ?

I thought Cam would be gone, I mean when other teams are calling your offense predictable that's not a good thing. The Texans backed up the talk by completely shutting us down for the most part. I can see both sides of it though, the want continuity and the young guys going into their second year of the system...I think you can expect to see some growth if the OL turns out to be strong

[PeRK82]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1338332163' post='1083757']
....do you really think that? Or do you just not like Cam and the HC ?

I thought Cam would be gone, I mean when other teams are calling your offense predictable that's not a good thing. The Texans backed up the talk by completely shutting us down for the most part. I can see both sides of it though, the want continuity and the young guys going into their second year of the system...I think you can expect to see some growth if the OL turns out to be strong
[/quote]

Yea the thought has went through my head a few times. Why else would Cam still be here. Trust me, i don't want Cam here as much as the next guy. It makes you wonder why Harbs. allows Cam to still be here, yea i know they are Friends but the owner could fire Cam if Harbs. doesnt feel comfortable firing his Friend. So yea , i think Harbs. might be keeping Cam around to keep the heat off of himself i guess. We have such an uphill battle compared to other teams with our Offense being so predictable. If im sitting on my couch and i know if we are going to run it or throw it. Just imagine the Defense that do nothing but watch film on the Ravens when a game is coming up. That puts our team at a serious disadvantage. It really is sad that i get fooled maybe once out of every dozen plays or so. That's not good for our Offense because yea i love football and can recognize plays but i am far from being an expert , ill be the first to admit it, lol.

[scrock]

its so frustrating too when Cam gets in one of his funks and calls the same play over and over that isnt even working, like the first time we played the Texans Leach and Rice had to get the RB Coach to go to Cam to get him to stop running outside and run inside and once we did in the 2nd half Rice started busting some runs.....

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1338389180' post='1083952']
its so frustrating too when Cam gets in one of his funks and calls the same play over and over that isnt even working, like the first time we played the Texans Leach and Rice had to get the RB Coach to go to Cam to get him to stop running outside and run inside and once we did in the 2nd half Rice started busting some runs.....
[/quote]
Player feedback is important. It's good to know guys are seeing the defense well to know adjustments, and that cam is listening. On any offense, or defensive, players are talking to coaches. You don't think Ray told Chuck a few things and made in game adjustments?

[flock master]

hey the ravens just should pay ray rice what he wants he is vary important to the team if they don't their going to lose a dam good player.

[1/28/01]

<p>[quote name='flock master' timestamp='1338473498' post='1084444']<br />
hey  the ravens just should pay ray rice what he wants he is vary important to the team if they don&#39;t their going to lose a dam good player.<br />
[/quote]<br />
<br />
</p>
Riiiiight....just go ahead, pay the guy whatever he wants. Why stop at $10M a year and $30M guaranteed? "Hey Ray, $15M a year it is fella!"

[The Raven]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1338479159' post='1084506']
<p><br />
<br />
</p>
Riiiiight....just go ahead, pay the guy whatever he wants. Why stop at $10M a year and $30M guaranteed? "Hey Ray, $15M a year it is fella!"
[/quote]

Lets just go ahead and give him Manning's contract! Rice is our whole offense after all!

[redrum52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1338244840' post='1083345']


You can say ifs all you want, but it doesn't erase the fact that they happened. Yes, it was a horrible decision by Joe. But even Peyton Manning threw a game ending pick six in the Superbowl a few years back. Also in regards to his interceptions this year, we played 11 games against Top 10 defenses. When you look at it that way, it doesn't look as bad, now does it?

You don't know that Pierce or Allen won't cut it. Looking at Pierce's game film and stats in college, I think he has a very good chance to do more than make the cut.
[/quote]

I've agreed and think I was one of the first few to say trade Rice if the price was too high, but if Flacco can use the top 10 defense excuse why not Rice? If playing a top 10 defense I would assume its easier to stop that offense if you know they are a run oriented team which should then make his job more difficult and Flaccos easier? This is what people mean when they say Joe gets to much damn wiggle room. People are quick to defend him hut never the ones around him. The o line giveaway him a pocket and the wr beats his man and Flacco over throws or under throws. No one seems to want to mention that but you criticize the man rightfully so and you're blasted about how you might not be a Ravens fan. The truth is very few have earned the right to mess up without being immediately called out and Flacco hasn't reached that point yet. I support Flacco and think he's a top 10 qb but that doesn't mean he's untouchable to fan scrutiny.

[Hjulmann]

so does anyone know what the odds are that he'll be traded after this season? Or is this completely based on his performance?

[rmw10]

[quote name='Hjulmann' timestamp='1338487505' post='1084561']
so does anyone know what the odds are that he'll be traded after this season? Or is this completely based on his performance?
[/quote]

Most likely 0 odds. I think they'll eventually come to an agreement on a contract suitable for both. This thread is just an "if" proposal. Even if they don't strike a deal, I don't see him being traded.