Trade Ray Rice?

[cobrajet]

Listen, Joe is the priority in my mind. IMHO, he is the most important player on this team, because he is a quality franchise QB. If we lock up Joe for the long haul, then we franchise Rice. He will sign, he really has no choice. If we can get a sweet trade, great, but there is only a slim chance of a sweet offer coming in. I like Rice, but don't kid yourself, he is far far far from the RB AP is. We would be foolish to mortgage our future giving him the money he is asking for, and I think most of us on here understand that.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1337869719' post='1081802']
Cam is vanilla 80% of the time, even when he adjusts. Whatever creative formations or plays we see (usually against inferior competition) disappear into his play-book, never to be seen again.
[/quote]

You know, I just don't understand Cam in the least. Desperate for football, I've been watching some games from 2008. The man DID get creative A LOT then.

I'm hoping we're both wrong about the man and he's just been waiting for our receiving corps to be up to snuff to get more creative.

As for trading Rice, I don't think we'd get what we believe he's worth. I love Rice, I truly do, but if these reports are true (and that isn't a given) he's just asking for too much money.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1337893037' post='1082050']
2010 was a different season with a worse offensive line. Flacco has probably gained enough respect as a passer to mitigate this concern, but with Cam I'm still fearful of this. I don't think there's a better option on the open market right now, and getting a good return off of Rice to build for the future still seems like a better move for the team in the long run.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say that it was worse than it is now. Yes, we had a big question mark at OG in 2010, with Marshal Yanda having to slide out after the loss of Jared Gaither, and Michael Oher having a poor season at LT. But Matt Birk and Ben Grubbs were still solid inside. And Yanda was very impressive at RT. Concerning last season, Oher was arguably even worse on the right side. Bryant McKinney wasn't exactly stellar. Both are back and both are entrenched as the likely starters. And as of this moment, we have an even older Birk, along with three unproven talents battling for the LG spot. Doesn't seem like a much improved scenario. Benson is probably the best option, but that's not saying much. I believe him and Ryan Grant are the only feasible options on the market. I understand that we'll receive something in return, but in the process, we take a downgrade both the running game and the passing game. Not worth it, in my opinion.

[baltravens]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1337839186' post='1081716']
By all accounts, Ray Rice contract talks are not going well. The FO has stated that if he wants AP type money he isn't getting it. If it doesn't get done before July 16th, I think it's safe to assume that Rice is gone after this season. The team can't afford to pay him what he wants if he wants to get Flacco. As controversial as he is, it is almost impossible to find a guy who can give you consistent play at the quarterback position. With the multiple running backs that are essential to today's league, it is quite easy to get an adequate amount of running production. Taking this into account, if we can't keep Rice why not get some value out of him?

Ray Rice has put up regular season numbers. He is arguably the best pass catching back in the league who adds a dynamic piece to an offense. There are a lot of teams who would give up quite a bit to get Rice in the hopes that he will be the same guy in their system. We might be able to snag a first round pick or a quality player paired with another high pick for him (perhaps a pass rusher). This trade could help bolster an area of weakness to help us get over the hump this year with the possibility of keeping us in it more in the future. We have holes coming up that need to be filled on the defense with the imminent departure of Ray Lewis and Ed Reed in addition to LT and WR.

This would leave a hole at running back as Allen and Pierce probably aren't ready. Thus, this scenario hinges on one player: Cedric Benson. Regardless of who we get in a trade, Benson can be had as Rice's replacement for this season. As a runner, Benson figured it out in Cincy and saved his career. For my money, I would rather have him on the team than Ray Rice anyway. He's what you want from your running back in Cam's system. He's a pure power runner who can consistently move the chains, as opposed to Ray Rice who might give you one big play along with 15 of nothing. He's YPC isn't elite, but overall Cincy has a weaker line than us. He can still get you 1000 yards a season, and he'll do it in a fashion that better fits this offensive system. Less no gains will put Flacco in better position, and I think our three and outs would decrease since we won't have to rely on the big play in the running game. Some might say his style is what Pierce's is, but Pierce is a one cut and run runner a la Arian Foster more than a power back from what I can find. Regardless, the market for running backs, especially one with the off the field issues like Benson, is thinning. He'll come cheap, on a team like this he will be placed into the best position for him to stay clean so to speak, and on this team he would be a top 15 running back again.

Despite the logic, I await the firestorm. This topic was not made to insult Rice. He's a good football player, he's entertaining, and I like him. I just think that we can get more value from him this way to help the team. Adding picks could help us address our needs and the move saves cap space to sign other players we like, such as Flacco. The move makes sense. Do I think it will happen? Probably not. I still think it's a good idea.
[/quote]
Sheer craziness!!!
Trade this poster?

[PurpleDrink]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1337856373' post='1081741']
I actually want to trade him. We could get some very high picks for him. We probably wouldn't do it this year, but next year I see it as a possibility.
[/quote]


Since you all want to act like owners answer this, what kind of message are you sending by tradeing your best offensive player because you just don't want to pay him??

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='PurpleDrink' timestamp='1337899069' post='1082103']
Since you all want to act like owners answer this, what kind of message are you sending by tradeing your best offensive player because you just don't want to pay him??
[/quote]you dont overpay for players if your a good run business and team.. see all the contenders. its the guys trying to break into contention that overpay, bills for example. We would pay him whats he worth, not what hes rumoured to want, that doesnt send out any message.. you sign here to win, if you want extortionate money go to a team that wont sniff the big game that has tonnes of money laying around and dont spend it.

We spend our money, but not on one player, we are the tightest to the cap every single year, the only message not OVERPAYING for rice sends out, is we dont overpay.

The arguement your trying to make is null and void. History shows we pay our stars what they are worth, if they want more they can test FA, even ray lewis didnt get what he wanted first go round.

[cobrajet]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1337900698' post='1082117']
you dont overpay for players if your a good run business and team.. see all the contenders. its the guys trying to break into contention that overpay, bills for example. We would pay him whats he worth, not what hes rumoured to want, that doesnt send out any message.. you sign here to win, if you want extortionate money go to a team that wont sniff the big game that has tonnes of money laying around and dont spend it.

We spend our money, but not on one player, we are the tightest to the cap every single year, the only message not OVERPAYING for rice sends out, is we dont overpay.

The arguement your trying to make is null and void. History shows we pay our stars what they are worth, if they want more they can test FA, even ray lewis didnt get what he wanted first go round.
[/quote]
Exactly! Well said my friend.

[wayne]

IDK about trading RR...... for me to even be the slightest OK with doing this, I got to know that Flacco can put the team on his shoulders consistently and that Cam can accomadate for the loss of someone like RR with his playcalling. Cam system depends too strongly on a receiving RB so that's something that you can't overlook. We are too close to winning it all for me to be ok with trading RR so I say the FO do what it can to keep him. Unless his terms are unreasonable and straight out outrageous, meet him in the middle with working it out.

[tsizzle95]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1337889250' post='1082027']
McFadden IMO is THE complete back and if not injury prone like you stated would probably be the best RB in the league, and AP obviously the league elite runner.

But what you said about Foster/Forte maybe being better than Ray...Thats theres fightin' words!!
[/quote]
lol i said you COULD make an argument for them. But i even said that rice gets the edge because he is so durable

[wizard1]

[quote name='PurpleDrink' timestamp='1337899069' post='1082103']
Since you all want to act like owners answer this, what kind of message are you sending by tradeing your best offensive player because you just don't want to pay him??
[/quote] You guys really make me laugh-we already did that once this year with our first round draft pick Ben Grubbs. Does anyone really believe whats being said on this topic. There are many teams that will pay for Ray Rice. The Ravens just aren't one of them. New Orleans say hello to our little friend. Ray Rice is outta here. He deserves every penny he can get.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1337900698' post='1082117']
you dont overpay for players if your a good run business and team.. see all the contenders. its the guys trying to break into contention that overpay, bills for example. We would pay him whats he worth, not what hes rumoured to want, that doesnt send out any message.. you sign here to win, if you want extortionate money go to a team that wont sniff the big game that has tonnes of money laying around and dont spend it.

We spend our money, but not on one player, we are the tightest to the cap every single year, the only message not OVERPAYING for rice sends out, is [b]we dont overpay[/b].

The arguement your trying to make is null and void. History shows we pay our stars what they are worth, if they want more they can test FA, even ray lewis didnt get what he wanted first go round.
[/quote]

Generally, it sums up for everything that Ozzie has been running the Ravens organization successfully for over a decade.

We are the most underrated team in the NFL when it comes to trading, drafting, and business.

Argument is fun among fans, but I'm glad Ozzie is the man for the final decision, not I or the fans.....

[-Truth-]

[quote name='tsizzle95' timestamp='1337906121' post='1082148']
lol i said you COULD make an argument for them. But i even said that rice gets the edge because he is so durable
[/quote]

In terms of injuries, Rice's edge over Foster shouldn't be overly significant. Discounting the Texans' week 17 match up, wherein Foster was rested purely out of the lack of this game's importance, he's missed just 2 games out of his last 35 as a starter. The same could be argued for Forte, who played through all 16 games in his first 3 seasons before succumbing to an MCL sprain, which shouldn't affect his future.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='PurpleDrink' timestamp='1337899069' post='1082103']
Since you all want to act like owners answer this, what kind of message are you sending by tradeing your best offensive player because you just don't want to pay him??
[/quote]You're sending the message that you won't be extorted into paying too much for a running back...

[The Raven]

I would like to bring up the fact that from 1995-2003 Denver was a Top 5 rushing team 7 out of 9 years. During those years, [u]4[/u] different backs gained [i]at least [/i]1100 yards in 5 different seasons. Obviously, runningbacks are not everything. Also, Denver's all time leading rusher was a 6th round pick.

After reading that, is Rice still worth 30+ million guaranteed?

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1337917259' post='1082190']
I would like to bring up the fact that from 1995-2003 Denver was a Top 5 rushing team 7 out of 9 years. During those years, [u]4[/u] different backs gained [i]at least [/i]1100 yards in 5 different seasons. Obviously, runningbacks are not everything. Also, Denver's all time leading rusher was a 6th round pick.

After reading that, is Rice still worth 30+ million guaranteed?
[/quote]NO runningback is worth 30M. Try telling that to runningbacks though...

[gabefergy]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1337910081' post='1082160']
You guys really make me laugh-we already did that once this year with our first round draft pick Ben Grubbs. Does anyone really believe whats being said on this topic. There are many teams that will pay for Ray Rice. The Ravens just aren't one of them. New Orleans say hello to our little friend. Ray Rice is outta here. He deserves every penny he can get.
[/quote]
New Orleans can't even afford Drew Brees. There is no way they can afford Rice, and they don't need him.

I really doubt there are a lot of teams that will give Rice 30 Mil guaranteed, and even less will trade for him and then pay him that kind of money.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1337917259' post='1082190']
I would like to bring up the fact that from 1995-2003 Denver was a Top 5 rushing team 7 out of 9 years. During those years, [u]4[/u] different backs gained [i]at least [/i]1100 yards in 5 different seasons. Obviously, runningbacks are not everything. Also, Denver's all time leading rusher was a 6th round pick.

After reading that, is Rice still worth 30+ million guaranteed?
[/quote]
No. Who are you talking to because I don't see anyone saying he should be paid that kind of money.

[Ravenslifer]

It depends on what his contract demands are vs. where we stand. The front office has a number, Rice and his agent have a number, and if by late next year they don't have a deal done, it would come down to do they want to franchise him again or go in another direction? It would also depend on whether Rice decides to sit the season out or not, what they see out of the other running-backs, etc. Could it happen - given the way Jamal's career with us ended, I think at some point it would be better to trade Rice if it becomes obvious he's going to leave in free agency. However I don't think NOW is the time to discuss this sort of thing.

[Blex64]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1337889250' post='1082027']
McFadden IMO is THE complete back and if not injury prone like you stated would probably be the best RB in the league, and AP obviously the league elite runner.

But what you said about Foster/Forte maybe being better than Ray...Thats theres fightin' words!!
[/quote]

McFadden's not an elite RB BECAUSE he's prone to injury. I don't care how talented you are, but if you only see the field 7 games a season you're worthless.

[usmccharles]

[quote name='Grapple Raven' timestamp='1337890986' post='1082036'] [i]Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what Ray Rice has done for the Ravens, but the bottom line in contract negoiations is you [b]aren't paying a player for what he has done, you pay a player based on his future potential worth to the team[/b].[/i] [/quote][color=#ff0000] [/color]
[color=#000000]I hate that saying so much, i get what your saying though. You have to base his future worth to the team off his production in the past. Thats like saying if rice was getting 500 yards a season this would be the exact same situation. Its not, hes put up consistent season numbers, you pay to get those numbers again. [/color]


[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1337893037' post='1082050'] As to the second point, we know what Rice can do without Grubbs: nothing. He was [b]pathetic[/b] during 2010 and the games in which Grubbs was injured this season. Without a solid offensive line Rice will not produce, it is a fact that is backed up from numbers during his career. [color=#ff0000]Seriously???? Since when is 1200+ rushing yards and 500+ receiving yards pathetic? thats messed up man...any RB will do better with a better offensive line, imagine what barry sanders would of done behind the dallas line....[/color]


I don't think there's a better option on the open market right now, and getting a good return off of Rice to build for the future still seems like a better move for the team in the long run. [color=#ff0000]Although i do agree with this statement, id rather keep rice for the next 4 years. I dont see us getting anything in return to equal his production even at a different position. [/color]

This is another good point. Rice has a lot of wear and tear as it is. If he were to get another contract from the team, I wouldn't make it more than three years. If he can fetch a decent return now I'd rather take the gamble though. [color=#ff0000]One scenario im not opposed to..sign him for a 4 year contract then after two years shop him around, obviously his return wouldnt be as high as it would now but we would still get something. He is going to be in his prime the next 3 years and i think we should maximize our return on that: without trading. [/color]

If there's one thing Ozzie has been forced to learn, it's that you don't build your team for one year. He tried to do that to repeat as Super Bowl champs and it failed miserably. Look at the Eagles from last year. I'd like to get Lewis get another ring, but not at the cost of the long term success of the team. Not even Ray is bigger than the franchise. Our team generally goes as Pittsburgh goes, and I think we will eventually transition to a pass-first attack like the Steelers have. This decreases the chance that Rice will get the money he wants from this team. I still think that expecting offensive evolution from Cam is a long wait for a train don't come. [/quote]

[color=#000000]as i would like to see us move that way but we will for sure need to add more wr weapons, bolding is near the end of his career and im guessing at the end of this year he will be our number 2 wr. hopefully streeter will become an mini megatron and our passing attack will explode but without getting something now to help our offense getting rid of RR for anything other than a elite wr or tackle would hinder production, imo of course. [/color]

[BloodRaven]

I hear Jonathan Stewart maybe on the move this offseason, he's in his final year and probably won't be retained after the multiyear deals Carolina gave to DeAngelo Williams and Mike Tolbert. This will be just like the Marshawn Lynch for peanuts trade.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='usmccharles' timestamp='1337934295' post='1082226']
[color=#000000] I hate that saying so much, i get what your saying though. You have to base his future worth to the team off his production in the past. Thats like saying if rice was getting 500 yards a season this would be the exact same situation. Its not, hes put up consistent season numbers, you pay to get those numbers again.[/color][color=#ff0000] [/color][/quote]
Yes but with a running back its unlikely you will get them same numbers over an extended period of time. Ray could drop off in the third year with the amount of touches he's gotten throughout his career

[usmccharles]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1337943303' post='1082232']
Yes but with a running back its unlikely you will get them same numbers over an extended period of time. Ray could drop off in the third year with the amount of touches he's gotten throughout his career
[/quote]

[color=#000000]True, thats what makes the money part so hard, its based on variables that are all speculation[/color]

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='usmccharles' timestamp='1337943575' post='1082233']
[color=#000000]True, thats what makes the money part so hard, its based on variables that are all speculation[/color]
[/quote]which is what this thread is based on so I can't see how people can argue with it atm. If the recent reports are true rice won't be a raven much longer. so do you try and trade him now or tag and trade next year. You can't counter it with rice should get a deal because as were lead to be belive currently, he's not getting one.

[sameoldbull]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1337893037' post='1082050']

Miami (foolishly) believes in Bush so I doubt they'd be receptive to the trade. If you can get Jake Long for Ray Rice you do that in a heartbeat though without a second thought. That could turn this line into an elite offensive line improving not only Joe, as he would have more time to throw, but also any running back brought in to replace him. Long would be good enough to cover up any weakness at LG, but I think Osemele would be ok next to a player like him. This would be the dream scenario though.

[/quote]

That I why I suggested Long. I don't believe in Bush. He has had one 1k season and that is all. Yes he can be an electric player but I don't think he is consistently good enough to be the leading rusher for a team. Jake Long is coming of with a back injury and they just drafted Jonathan Martin. That is why I see the trade could be a possibility. Jake Long as a raven would be awesome and he is only 27 years old so we would have locked down the LT spot for years to come.

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1337881860' post='1081934']
he wouldnt have caught anything without joe, joe couldnt have got the yards with out boldin.. thats the point, we arent a one man offense, but argubaly due to the value of the position, Joe is thee most important. i dont think that can be argued
[/quote]

Agreed. We are very privileged because we have been to the playoffs year after year. The backside is that we have to draft in the later rounds unless we trade our whole draft for one player. Considering that we might have to choose between Flacco (Franchise quarterback) and Rice (Franchise runningback), I would pick Flacco any time. Franchise runningbacks can be had in the later part of the first round - and of course later rounds, franchise quarterbacks can't (or very rarely).


[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1337943303' post='1082232']
Yes but with a running back its unlikely you will get them same numbers over an extended period of time. Ray could drop off in the third year with the amount of touches he's gotten throughout his career
[/quote]

Exactly. It isn't just because he has had a lot of carries as a raven. He had a heavy payload as well at Rutgers. I know he is in great shape and all, but the runningback position is were you really see the drop off from year to year.

[ThePurpleWall]

this was on the front page,
[b]Elite RB Money? Not Going To Happen[/b]
It’s time for the daily Ray Rice contract negotiations update. Small tidbits continue to pop up here and there, but most reveal little relevant news.
The latest comes from ESPN’s Sal Paolantonio (per PFT.com), who put the gap between the Ravens and Rice in stark terms.
While talking with a Ravens senior official about Rice’s reported desire for Adrian Peterson money,or at least Chris Johnson money, the official replied to Paolantonio, “That is [url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/23/ray-rice-will-not-get-the-contract-he-wants/"]simply not going to happen[/url].”
The report doesn’t come as a huge surprise, especially considering many pundits are already predicting that Rice will get less money than Peterson and Johnson, but perhaps more than LeSean McCoy and Arian Foster.
Peterson: 7 years, $36 million guaranteed
Johnson: 6 years, $30 million guaranteed
McCoy: 5 years, $20.76 guaranteed
Foster: 5 years, $20.75 guaranteed
“There’s probably no NFL running back who can expect to get that, especially considering that both the Titans and the Vikings have to be having second thoughts about those contracts now,” wrote PFT.com’s Mike Florio. “Johnson had by far his worst season after signing that lucrative contract last year, and Peterson had his season end with a torn ACL.”

[ThePurpleWall]

@usmc,Please stop typing in red.

[Fries]

What is Ball security and durability worth?

[Kinda_Dante]

Is anyone else getting a headache from all this "lets move on from RR" talk?

[usmccharles]

[quote name='Kinda_Dante' timestamp='1337948865' post='1082251']
Is anyone else getting a headache from all this "lets move on from RR" talk?
[/quote]

very much so