Flacco At No.74

[codizzle]

So 80% of the league is better than joe flacco?

K thanks for clearing that up.. I won't bother u anymore.. It's clearly not worth it

[ratedr]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1336738962' post='1076171']


I thought you knew my opinion from our past debates.

Hopefully I can post an image I made.



I purposely left off some of the games best quarterbacks because comparing Flacco with those guys are an absolute laugh.

The key here is

Players hilighted in green the Ravens would win Super Bowls with them at the helm before they would with Flacco'
Players with white background arguably the same performance Flacco fits in this group of mediocrity. [u]That's not to say some in green aren't mediocre as well.[/u]
Players hilighted in blue will be better than Flacco in future years if playing in the Raven system.

I hope this answers your question.

[img]http://i50.tinypic.com/2jafczd.jpg[/img]
[/quote]lol. That is all. I don't know why anyone bothers.

[ratedr]

It's a shame that the only way for certain amnesia ridden fans of this team to see how important Flacco is to our success would be for him to go down a la Cutler. I don't wish for that to happen under any circumstance because winning trumps all, but that's literally what it would take.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1336739969' post='1076175']
It's a shame that the only way for certain amnesia ridden fans of this team to see how important Flacco is to our success would be for him to go down a la Cutler. I don't wish for that to happen under any circumstance because winning trumps all, but that's literally what it would take.
[/quote]when did you change your tune on flacco by the way?

[ellicottraven]

Flacco's position ranking by his peers shows evolving respect. He ranks better than last year and I think for now it's just about right. Next year he will show up in the top 10! Go Ravens...

[ratedr]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1336740071' post='1076176']
when did you change your tune on flacco by the way?
[/quote]I have never hated Flacco, I don't know how many times I have to say this. I am not delusional about him being elite, and I will criticize him when he deserves to be criticized, but I recognize what he brings to the table. I don't have amnesia. Nothing irritates me nore than "he wins because of defense and Ray Rice."

Well, the defense pre-2008 and Jamal Lewis > defense now and Ray Rice, and we weren't winning jack after 2000.

And last I checked, Ray Rice didn't start Flacco's rookie year, and that was a pretty good season.

I just hate unfounded critiques, and I don't understand why people act like Flacco is the only QB in history to have a good defense.

[codizzle]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1336741574' post='1076183']
Flacco's position ranking by his peers shows evolving respect. He ranks better than last year and I think for now it's just about right. Next year he will show up in the top 10! Go Ravens...
[/quote]
Top 10?? Easy killer ha

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1336738509' post='1076170']
[b]And the reason is because defensive coodinators including the best defensive mind in the game Belicheck know that Flacco can't put the team on his back and win.....[/b]

The playoff formula is pretty simple. Stop Rice and limit turnovers = Ravens lose.
[/quote]

Except Flacco did just that. He did everything he possibly could to get this team to the SB. Players around him fell short. Joe did not.

[codizzle]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1336750385' post='1076251']


Except Flacco did just that. He did everything he possibly could to get this team to the SB. Players around him fell short. Joe did not.
[/quote]
Checkmate?

[1/28/01]

<p>[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1336738509' post='1076170']<br />
And the reason is because defensive coodinators including the best defensive mind in the game Belicheck know that Flacco can&#39;t put the team on his back and win.....<br />
<br />
The playoff formula is pretty simple. Stop Rice and  limit turnovers = Ravens lose.<br />
[/quote]<br />
<br />
</p>
Riiiiight....did you watch our last game of the season? How about the all important second Pitt game and second half of the AZ game? Both games proved to be instrumental in our movement towards a SB. Your relentless and uneducated fluff is hilarious!

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1336738509' post='1076170']
And the reason is because defensive coodinators including the best defensive mind in the game Belicheck [b]know that Flacco can't put the team on his back and win.....[/b]

The playoff formula is pretty simple. Stop Rice and limit turnovers = Ravens lose.
[/quote]

No, you couldn't be more wrong:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pQ84OBkngA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pQ84OBkngA[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfx4WQL_0Qk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfx4WQL_0Qk[/url]

I'd link more, but I think that proves my point.

[codizzle]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1336754647' post='1076272']


No, you couldn't be more wrong:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pQ84OBkngA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pQ84OBkngA[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfx4WQL_0Qk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfx4WQL_0Qk[/url]

I'd link more, but I think that proves my point.
[/quote]

Link away... I always love these videos ha

[CapoRocky]

Flacco needs to pass for 4,000 yards this year. He's been stuck at just over 3,600 yards for the past 3 years. Now's the time for a breakout year and a new contract.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1336761070' post='1076347']
Flacco needs to pass for 4,000 yards this year. He's been stuck at just over 3,600 yards for the past 3 years. Now's the time for a breakout year and a new contract.
[/quote]because 4000 yards is the be all and end all for QBs.......

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1336750385' post='1076251']
Except Flacco did just that. He did everything he possibly could to get this team to the SB. Players around him fell short. Joe did not.
[/quote]
Not true. Although guys like Cundiff, and Ray Rice vanished during our time of need, our defense (unlike a lot of other QB's that took it to the next level) kept us in the game.

For example, Joe stopped us dead in our tracks when he threw to Jerod Mayo in the AFC championship game, our D did what they always do and came up clutch.
You can make an argument that our defense made Flacco, because if we had a crappy one i dont think we would be anywhere we have been lately..

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1336761638' post='1076355']
Not true. Although guys like Cundiff, and Ray Rice vanished during our time of need, our defense (unlike a lot of other QB's that took it to the next level) kept us in the game.

For example, Joe stopped us dead in our tracks when he threw to Jerod Mayo in the AFC championship game, our D did what they always do and came up clutch.
You can make an argument that our defense made Flacco, because if we had a crappy one i dont think we would be anywhere we have been lately..
[/quote]well then you could also argue that if flacco had elite WRs, Oline etc etc he would be far better, yet when someone make that arguement its irrelevant...

[gabefergy]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1336761638' post='1076355']
Not true. Although guys like Cundiff, and Ray Rice vanished during our time of need, our defense (unlike a lot of other QB's that took it to the next level) kept us in the game.

For example, Joe stopped us dead in our tracks when he threw to Jerod Mayo in the AFC championship game, our D did what they always do and came up clutch.
You can make an argument that our defense made Flacco, because if we had a crappy one i dont think we would be anywhere we have been lately..
[/quote]
If we had a crappy defense, we would probably have a lot more invested in the offense, like the offensive power-houses do. You cant just make that argument in a vacuum.

Joe's interception had little to zero affect on that game. We got the ball back in pretty much the same field position the very next play. It was a mistake, but it wasnt what made us lose that game. The O-line play was atrocious, but somehow Flacco managed to drive us down the field to put the team in position win the game. We all know what happened after that so don't even try to say that Joe did not put us in position to win.

[BmoreRavens732]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1336761638' post='1076355']

Not true. Although guys like Cundiff, and Ray Rice vanished during our time of need, our defense (unlike a lot of other QB's that took it to the next level) kept us in the game.

For example, Joe stopped us dead in our tracks when he threw to Jerod Mayo in the AFC championship game, our D did what they always do and came up clutch.
You can make an argument that our defense made Flacco, because if we had a crappy one i dont think we would be anywhere we have been lately..
[/quote]so as great as tom brady is (one of,if not the best ever) its ok for his D to come up clutch for his mistakes and bail him out but not flaccos? Cuz if im not mistaken the VERY next play after joe threw a pick the golden boy brady threw yet another pick and gave the ravens another chance to get the win but his D bailed him out....right?

[Hardbaugh]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1336761638' post='1076355']
Not true. Although guys like Cundiff, and Ray Rice vanished during our time of need, our defense (unlike a lot of other QB's that took it to the next level) kept us in the game.

[u]For example, Joe stopped us dead in our tracks when he threw to Jerod Mayo in the AFC championship game, our D did what they always do and came up clutch.[/u]
You can make an argument that our defense made Flacco, because if we had a crappy one i dont think we would be anywhere we have been lately..
[/quote]

You are exactly correct.



Flacco fans have been trying to sell Raven fans a complete pile when it comes to his skills....

They tell us it's all about wins....until he doesn't win...
When stats are in his favor (the few that he outperforms) it's all about stats....
Our O-line is weak compared to this guys..
He has better recievers...
that guy has better coaching..
He plays against weaker competition..
Joe plays outdoors..

It never ends...

These guys constantly move the goalposts when it comes to Flacco. I judge him against his peers..

He's won zero championships...
He is not in the top ten of any passing categories.

Flacco had 20 TD's and 18 turnovers... That is not the stuff legends are made.

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1336770706' post='1076416']


You are exactly correct.



Flacco fans have been trying to sell Raven fans a complete pile when it comes to his skills....

They tell us it's all about wins....until he doesn't win...
When stats are in his favor (the few that he outperforms) it's all about stats....
Our O-line is weak compared to this guys..
He has better recievers...
that guy has better coaching..
He plays against weaker competition..
Joe plays outdoors..

It never ends...

These guys constantly move the goalposts when it comes to Flacco. I judge him against his peers..

He's won zero championships...
He is not in the top ten of any passing categories.

Flacco had 20 TD's and 18 turnovers... That is not the stuff legends are made.
[/quote]

You post the same stuff over and over and refuse to address points made in rebuttle (I.e. my previous post, fly's post, etc.)

So until you cone up with better material, we've shown you how stats mean nothing in this case. And how when flacco throws one pick and Brady throws two Brady gets a pass

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1336770706' post='1076416']
You are exactly correct.



Flacco fans have been trying to sell Raven fans a complete pile when it comes to his skills....

They tell us it's all about wins....until he doesn't win...
When stats are in his favor (the few that he outperforms) it's all about stats....
Our O-line is weak compared to this guys..
He has better recievers...
that guy has better coaching..
He plays against weaker competition..
Joe plays outdoors..

It never ends...

These guys constantly move the goalposts when it comes to Flacco. I judge him against his peers..

He's won zero championships...
He is not in the top ten of any passing categories.

Flacco had 20 TD's and 18 turnovers... That is not the stuff legends are made.
[/quote]
You can keep saying the same thing over and over again. It doesnt mean you are right.

[Blex64]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1336770706' post='1076416']
You are exactly correct.



Flacco fans have been trying to sell Raven fans a complete pile when it comes to his skills....

They tell us it's all about wins....until he doesn't win...
When stats are in his favor (the few that he outperforms) it's all about stats....
Our O-line is weak compared to this guys..
He has better recievers...
that guy has better coaching..
He plays against weaker competition..
Joe plays outdoors..

It never ends...

These guys constantly move the goalposts when it comes to Flacco. I judge him against his peers..

He's won zero championships...
He is not in the top ten of any passing categories.

Flacco had 20 TD's and 18 turnovers... That is not the stuff legends are made.
[/quote]

Stop twisting words. Nobody said he was a "legend." They said he was a top 10 quarterback. There's no unwritten rule that says the top 10 have to be future Hall of Famers or put up 4,000 yards a season or anything else of that regard.

Also, how many other QB's are you actually adding fumbles to their turnover count? He had 20 TD's and 12 picks which, while a down year, are somewhat respectable numbers. I want to see your list of guys ahead of Flacco.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1336770706' post='1076416']
You are exactly correct.



Flacco fans have been trying to sell Raven fans a complete pile when it comes to his skills....

They tell us it's all about wins....until he doesn't win...
When stats are in his favor (the few that he outperforms) it's all about stats....
Our O-line is weak compared to this guys..
He has better recievers...
that guy has better coaching..
He plays against weaker competition..
Joe plays outdoors..

It never ends...

These guys constantly move the goalposts when it comes to Flacco. I judge him against his peers..

He's won zero championships...
He is not in the top ten of any passing categories.

Flacco had 20 TD's and 18 turnovers... That is not the stuff legends are made.
[/quote]

Let me be totally clear with you here,
The offense sucks. I'm not worried about the quarterback, I'm worried about the offense. I'm worried about the receivers, the O-line and even a little about Ray Rice.

I'm not worried about flacco, I want more from him, but I think the things your saying are sort of discrediting your argument.

[berad]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1336770706' post='1076416']
[b]These guys constantly move the goalposts when it comes to Flacco.[/b] I judge him against his peers..

He's won zero championships...
He is not in the top ten of any passing categories.

Flacco had 20 TD's and 18 turnovers... That is not the stuff legends are made.
[/quote]

Opposite.

First Flacco couldn't beat the Steelers, can't win in Pittsburgh, can't beat Ben, doesn't perform well in the playoffs, hasn't won a division title etc etc...

Flacco has done all of those things, he's posted top 10 numbers in the past, there's only one thing left to do on his checklist... and he did almost everything he could to achieve it (short of putting stick'em on Lee Evans' hands)

If the only knock on Flacco's resume in his first four years is that he doesn't have a championship, he's doing pretty well.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1336771743' post='1076435']
Opposite.

First Flacco couldn't beat the Steelers, can't win in Pittsburgh, can't beat Ben, doesn't perform well in the playoffs, hasn't won a division title etc etc...

Flacco has done all of those things, he's posted top 10 numbers in the past, there's only one thing left to do on his checklist... and he did almost everything he could to achieve it (short of putting stick'em on Lee Evans' hands)

If the only knock on Flacco's resume in his first four years is that he doesn't have a championship, he's doing pretty well.
[/quote]
You are absolutely correct. What some fans apparently clamor for is the Tom Brady or Drew Brees stats, and anything less is just "mediocre". There are so many reasons why this perception is incorrect, but what you highlighted is what matters the most. Not only does Joe Flacco win games, but he has shown that he can win the games that really matter. That is why he is one of the best players in the NFL and clearly there are a lot of people, players and fans, that recognize that.

[arnie_uk]

since hardbugh is all about stats

Name PCT Yards Avg TDS INTS Rate

Flacco, 60.8, 13816, 7.1, 80, 46, 86.0
Brees 62.4, 12127, 6.8, 79, 53, 84.6
Brady 61, 13919, 6.9, 97, 52, 87.6
Eli 56.6, 13580, 6.5, 92, 65, 78.4
Ben 64, 11674, 8.3, 84, 54, 94.1
Rivers 63.1, 14803, 7.9, 102, 44, 96
Peyton 61, 16418, 7.4, 111, 81, 85.2

that is the respective stats for each player after four years of starting. As you can see peyton and river stand out in TDs and Yds, but everyone, except rivers is pretty comparable elsewhere. Ben was far more a game manage over four years than Joe is. He is argubaly better than Brees and Eli after four years and similar to brady who has more TD but ints as well.

One thing you do notice for all, is years 5 onwards is when they all start taking that next step to what they have become now

Edit - incase you use the arguement of different eras, our offense is 5 years behind everyone else, so its almost better to compare our offense to everyone elses from five years ago and not today in a way.... Those of yous clamouring for flacco to win the passing title and this that and the other, it would be truly truly remarkable if he done it in our old school system

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1336772886' post='1076470']
since hardbugh is all about stats

Name PCT Yards Avg TDS INTS Rate

Flacco, 60.8, 13816, 7.1, 80, 46, 86.0
Brees 62.4, 12127, 6.8, 79, 53, 84.6
Brady 61, 13919, 6.9, 97, 52, 87.6
Eli 56.6, 13580, 6.5, 92, 65, 78.4
Ben 64, 11674, 8.3, 84, 54, 94.1
Rivers 63.1, 14803, 7.9, 102, 44, 96
Peyton 61, 16418, 7.4, 111, 81, 85.2

that is the respective stats for each player after four years of starting. As you can see peyton and river stand out in TDs and Yds, but everyone, except rivers is pretty comparable elsewhere. Ben was far more a game manage over four years than Joe is. He is argubaly better than Brees and Eli after four years and similar to brady who has more TD but ints as well.

One thing you do notice for all, is years 5 onwards is when they all start taking that next step to what they have become now

Edit - incase you use the arguement of different eras, our offense is 5 years behind everyone else, so its almost better to compare our offense to everyone elses from five years ago and not today in a way.... Those of yous clamouring for flacco to win the passing title and this that and the other, it would be truly truly remarkable if he done it in our old school system
[/quote]
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH No one wants logic it's bad!

I'm being sarcastic [i]<deleted>.[/i]

That being said, if he gets 3,600 yards next year my patience will grow thin.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1336774372' post='1076499']
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH No one wants logic it's bad!

I'm being sarcastic [i]<deleted>.[/i]

That being said, if he gets 3,600 yards next year my patience will grow thin.
[/quote]

I'm not so concerned about his yardage, but I would definitely like to see more efficiency than last season. If he repeats his 2010 numbers and we win 12-13 games I would be very happy. I do think he is capable of passing for more yardage, but in the constraints of this offense I dont see him ever putting up 4,500+ like some QBs.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1336738962' post='1076171']
I thought you knew my opinion from our past debates.

Hopefully I can post an image I made.



I purposely left off some of the games best quarterbacks because comparing Flacco with those guys are an absolute laugh.

The key here is

Players hilighted in green the Ravens would win Super Bowls with them at the helm before they would with Flacco'
Players with white background arguably the same performance Flacco fits in this group of mediocrity. [u]That's not to say some in green aren't mediocre as well.[/u]
Players hilighted in blue will be better than Flacco in future years if playing in the Raven system.

I hope this answers your question.

[img]http://i50.tinypic.com/2jafczd.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Lolololol Freeman, Bradford, Dalton, and Hasselbeck winning a Superbowl with us instead of Joe. You are by far the most entertaining Flacco hater, thanks for the laughs!Wait, upon further inspection, you have Tavaris Jackson, Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, Cassel, and MATT MOORE in the same class as Joe?!?! That is the dumbest thing I've heard in a month. The absolute dumbest!

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1336780584' post='1076570']
I'm not so concerned about his yardage, but I would definitely like to see more efficiency than last season. If he repeats his 2010 numbers and we win 12-13 games I would be very happy. I do think he is capable of passing for more yardage, but in the constraints of this offense I dont see him ever putting up 4,500+ like some QBs.
[/quote]
See, I want more production out of our passing offense. But our players are so young.