Who replaces Suggs?

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='usmccharles' timestamp='1336069234' post='1071348']
this would be a drastic mistake. Getting rid of our best player on our roster now to get a guy thats filling in for a year? Then have the offense produce less, so now you filled a hole on the defense side but created one on the offense side. Then what, trade suggs when he gets healthy. People need to calm down. If we trade rice for a pass rusher, im going to literally freak out.
[/quote]i did say it wont happen, but they moved up for Pierce because they obviously feel confident about him, they probably invision him replacing RR next year if we dont get a LT deal worked out.. so its possible they just accelerate this. While it wont happen, its possible..

I listed all the possible outcomes, in order, this of course being last

[Fries]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1336061128' post='1071126']
OK what I mean is(in my john harbaugh voice). Looking at the schedule and how unproven the guys behind suggs are. Anyone who says you can just plug guys in and get the same production is walking that line between being a blind fan and evaluating your talent and making a decision of how that talent can step in for him.

So next man doesn't apply cause it's not like you have a guy behinnd suggs that can replace him as a pass rusher or as a run stopper or in coverage. Make no mistake that the gains we saw from others was because of the game planning aspect of teams trying to take suggs away
[/quote]

How do you know Upshaw doesn't come in and have a Von Miller-esque type season? How do you know Kruger doesn't break out and have double digit sacks this year? Or more snaps for MCphee could equate to more production. I wouldn't assume that we are dead in the water. For all we know Kindle could have a monster year. You just never know. So I guess Baltimore had no defense before Suggs arrived lol.... NEXT MAN UP!

[usmccharles]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1336069577' post='1071356'] I like parts of Rice's game, but he's not the best player on the roster. [/quote] IMO hes the one guy we cant lose NOW, like i said in my post, now that suggs is gone. We can lose ed, ray, boldin, torrey...but with rice gone we would be a completely different team, he had right around 2000 yards last year, hes responsible for over 30% of our offense.


[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1336070138' post='1071374'] i did say it wont happen, but they moved up for Pierce because they obviously feel confident about him, they probably invision him replacing RR next year if we dont get a LT deal worked out.. so its possible they just accelerate this. While it wont happen, its possible.. I listed all the possible outcomes, in order, this of course being last [/quote] Sadly in a way i agree with you about them seeing pierce replacing rice, and that scares me. I do not want to lose RR more than anyone on this roster, him or joe would be a tough call, glad i dont have to make it. i just didnt see a point in filling one hole to make another hole, especially when we wouldnt get a pass rusher as elite as rice is at his position.

[Gordo52]

I feel Upshaw will now be forced to start. So with all the extra playing time I assume he will get, I have a great gut feeling that he will win defensive rookie of the year. Wouldnt that just be great?

[Fries]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1336070880' post='1071397']
I feel Upshaw will now be forced to start. So with all the extra playing time I assume he will get, I have a great gut feeling that he will win defensive rookie of the year. Wouldnt that just be great?
[/quote]

That's the spirit!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='usmccharles' timestamp='1336070564' post='1071388']
IMO hes the one guy we cant lose NOW, like i said in my post, now that suggs is gone. We can lose ed, ray, boldin, torrey...but with rice gone we would be a completely different team, he had right around 2000 yards last year, hes responsible for over 30% of our offense.
[/quote]

What if the team lost Flacco? Wouldn't it be a completely different team then? As maddeningly inconsistent as he is, he routinely makes plays and a number of QBs around the league simply can't.

This isn't to discredit Rice as a player at all. But he's a volume player. As a pure runner, there are a couple dozen better RBs in the league. He's a great receiver, but if the team had a better passing system, there wouldn't be a need for him to catch 60+ balls a year.

Staying on topic, it's almost depressing reading [url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/05/03/no-7-terrell-suggs-deolb-baltimore-ravens/"]this[/url] now. I hope the young guns rally and ball out all season.

[TheMadRaven]

Paul Kruger. Guys is gonna be a beast.

[T3hRaven]

Upshaw is the natural fit to replace Suggs. He played a similar pass-rush focused position at Alabama, and can be the hybrid player just like Suggs was. Unless he produces the way he did at Alabama, this season is over though. Why would Kruger be the natural fit? Dude has more experience playing the other linebacker spot.

[usmccharles]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1336071330' post='1071406']
What if the team lost Flacco? Wouldn't it be a completely different team then? As maddeningly inconsistent as he is, he routinely makes plays and a number of QBs around the league simply can't.

This isn't to discredit Rice as a player at all. But he's a volume player. As a pure runner, there are a couple dozen better RBs in the league. He's a great receiver, but if the team had a better passing system, there wouldn't be a need for him to catch 60+ balls a year.

Staying on topic, it's almost depressing reading [url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/05/03/no-7-terrell-suggs-deolb-baltimore-ravens/"]this[/url] now. I hope the young guns rally and ball out all season.
[/quote]

Yea i struggle with whose more important...flacco or rice. The way i see it, rice is a top 5 rb easily, joe is a top12 maybe...and i love flacco, i just think it would be easier to replace joe in a sense then it would be rice. but anways...back on topic...this is going to take a team effort on both sides of the ball to make up suggs production. We have asuper tough schedule...would we want it any other way?

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='Fries' timestamp='1336070224' post='1071377']


How do you know Upshaw doesn't come in and have a Von Miller-esque type season? How do you know Kruger doesn't break out and have double digit sacks this year? Or more snaps for MCphee could equate to more production. I wouldn't assume that we are dead in the water. For all we know Kindle could have a monster year. You just never know. So I guess Baltimore had no defense before Suggs arrived lol.... NEXT MAN UP!
[/quote]

One thing I do know is that suggs was last years defensive MVP. All the other condescending stuff you said aside. One thing that is a fact and isn't based one speculation is that Terrell Suggs was last years defensive MVP. And next man up(and from what I'm hearing and reading) isn't really the case here. Non of those guys even have the potential to be suggs.

[DieHardBMoreFan]

not sure why everybody is arguing the next man up mentality. Flacco wouldn't be our QB if it wasn't for next man up (remember Smith's viral/throat infection). Brady might not be the QB of NE if it wasn't for next man up. The list goes on and on. Yes this sucks but injury is a major part of the NFL, no way around it. Luckly we have a great FO and they have depth at almost every position. Who knows, maybe we won't need suggs next year cause Kindle/Kruger/Upshaw all do a better job. Yea im dreaming but you never know. we can hope

edit: no knock on Suggs, i have 3 of his jerseys and so does the fiance, i'm just saying... would be nice to have talent come out of the rocks that we didn't expect.

[RavensWin09]

better now than 2 weeks before first game. i'm pretty skeptical of his comments on a november return though.

[Yatagarasu]

Ozzie please don't trade for a pass rusher!

Let Kruger, Kindle, and Upshaw get all the reps to prove their worth as 2nd rounders.

Let's not jump to conclusion because the last trade really hurt (Lee Evans)

Remember, our defense still lived as a top ten with one of the least pressuring D-line back in the Mattison Era.

Ozzie don't bite that trade from NYG with Osi, because it's trading a possible mid round value (Bernard Pierce or Gino Gradkowski) for a one year rental.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1336075015' post='1071479']
Ozzie don't bite that trade from NYG with Osi, because it's trading a possible mid round value (Bernard Pierce or Gino Gradkowski) for a one year rental.
[/quote]

I don't think you need to worry about that. I can't ever think of a transaction that Ozzie made where he didn't have some leverage. He always stay patient and never trades away the future for stop gaps.

The only way I can see us bring somebody in is if somebody reaches out to us just to get something (late round pick) for a guy. Or if a guy is a cap casualty cut in TC. But other than that, I have a ton of confidence in the next wave. That's the wonder of being a Ravens fan.

[Yatagarasu]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1336075268' post='1071481']
I don't think you need to worry about that. I can't ever think of a transaction that Ozzie made where he didn't have some leverage. He always stay patient and never trades away the future for stop gaps.

The only way I can see us bring somebody in is if somebody reaches out to us just to get something (late round pick) for a guy. Or if a guy is a cap casualty cut in TC. But other than that, I have a ton of confidence in the next wave. That's the wonder of being a Ravens fan.
[/quote]

Somehow Lee Evans comes to mind because Ozzie didn't see Torrey Smith ready.

We could've used that pick to draft the following players around that slot.

Ron Brooks - cb
Ronnell Lewis - lb
Jared Crick - de
Adrien Robinson - te
Rhett Ellison - fb
Miles Burris - lb

[PuRock]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1336075634' post='1071493']
Somehow Lee Evans comes to mind because Ozzie didn't see Torrey Smith ready.

We could've used that pick to draft the following players around that slot.

Ron Brooks - cb
Ronnell Lewis - lb
Jared Crick - de
Adrien Robinson - te
Rhett Ellison - fb
Miles Burris - lb
[/quote]

In retrospect yes. But I don't think we got fleeced because we had no leverage. The Bills wanted to dump off Evans, that was our leverage. But the move was a stop-gap for a future pick, so you're right about that.

A 4th round pick at the time seemed great for a guy that would stretch the field. If he would've stayed healthy it would've been worth the 4th rounder. Or even if he caught the ball that sends us to the Super Bowl. But looking back at it now, yea it was a bad move.

But we are both on the same side here. No trade, let the young guys shine.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1336075634' post='1071493']
Somehow Lee Evans comes to mind because Ozzie didn't see Torrey Smith ready.

We could've used that pick to draft the following players around that slot.

Ron Brooks - cb
Ronnell Lewis - lb
Jared Crick - de
Adrien Robinson - te
Rhett Ellison - fb
Miles Burris - lb
[/quote]

Ozzie didn't just make the decision on a whim. He got plenty of input from the coaches. I'm positive Torrey had been struggling in practice at the time. And his lack of production in games only intensified scepticism about how much he'd contribute as a rookie.

Once Haloti(fully healthy) Kruger, McPhee and the other pass rushers shine in camp, I don't see Ozzie making any kind of trade for a pass rusher. But I've been wrong about player acquisitions before...

[Fries]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1336072797' post='1071435']
One thing I do know is that suggs was last years defensive MVP. All the other condescending stuff you said aside. One thing that is a fact and isn't based one speculation is that Terrell Suggs was last years defensive MVP. And next man up(and from what I'm hearing and reading) isn't really the case here. Non of those guys even have the potential to be suggs.
[/quote]

condescending? Are you saying that one of those guys cant be a future hall of famer? How do you know? I love how you just make assumption after assumption... How do you know what those guys are capable of? bottom line is you don't... You and I have no idea who is going to be the next superstar. You can guess all you'd like but don't pretend to know... now that is condescending...

[SecretAgentMan]

Nick Perr... I mean Upshaw, duh!!!!!
Seriously, if Perry was there, we would love to have him now.
Upshaw better all around though

[PuRock]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1336076166' post='1071505']
Ozzie didn't just make the decision on a whim. He got plenty of input from the coaches. I'm positive Torrey had been struggling in practice at the time. And his lack of production in games only intensified scepticism about how much he'd contribute as a rookie.

[b]Once Haloti(fully healthy) Kruger, McPhee and the other pass rushers shine in camp, I don't see Ozzie making any kind of trade for a pass rusher. But I've been wrong about player acquisitions before...[/b]
[/quote]

Same here. I never saw the Boldin trade coming. That was a complete shocker to me. I can't see us getting a pass rusher in a trade either, unless somebody wants to dump the player off on us.

I really believe that the FO has faith (and so do I) in the pass-rushers to get the job done.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1336059560' post='1071051']
[u][b]Next man up does no apply to this situation[/b][/u]. Suggs is a complete player who other teams have to game plan for. Not just on the field stuff but the off the field as well. [u][b]Not saying what you said is wrong but to think a rookie and Kruger are going to give you what suggs gives you or anything close to it is just glass half full as you can get.

You don't replace hall of famers in their primes[/b][/u].you just don't.
[/quote]

after reading some of your responses to others...it appears that you are missing the point in the concept of the "next man up" philosophy. it's [b]NEVER[/b] been about trying to [i][b]"replace"[/b][/i] a starter's productivity on the field as you keep implying. it's about the next cat on the roster (who we drafted or who has been on the squad for 1-2 years learning the system and schemes) to get in the game and to do the best that he can at that position to help the Ravens win.

~Mili

[The Black Bird]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when Ed reed went down a couple years ago we still was pretty good and when Ray went down the stats actually show we were better on PAPER. So now Suggs goes down n everyone is n panic mode. We will b fine...we r built 4 this. History shows that we have the team and players to replace our veteran when need b. Hell we can even throw n when we released mason, heap and our other veterans last year and people were writing us off but yet we made it to the AFC championship game. Some of yall may not like this but this could b a blessing n disguise because now we can really c what Upshaw and kindle can really do. They will both have 2 step up and show what they can do. This sound alil familiar from last year with the Torrey smith. We would have never knew what Torrey was capable of last year if Evans never got hurt. So this could b the same situation 4 our rookies this year to the point if or when suggs do comeback we would b force 2 keep playin our young guys.

[admartian]

What's with all the fools that think Next man up doesn't apply?

Of course it does. It doesn't mean you have to get a HOFer to replace another one.

*facepalm*

[SecretAgentMan]

There probably having a party in Steeler country, just saying, well look out

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1336078625' post='1071553']
What's with[b] all [/b]the fools that think Next man up doesn't apply?

Of course it does. It doesn't mean you have to get a HOFer to replace another one.

*facepalm*
[/quote]you mean one person.....

[admartian]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1336078883' post='1071556']
you mean one person.....
[/quote]I read a few posts mention it in other threads and didn't pay attention to the usernames. Sorry...

I'll take note next time?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1336078964' post='1071557']
I read a few posts mention it in other threads and didn't pay attention to the usernames. Sorry...

I'll take note next time?
[/quote]
Yes, please.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1336078964' post='1071557']
I read a few posts mention it in other threads and didn't pay attention to the usernames. Sorry...

I'll take note next time?
[/quote]thats not a dig at you, but just that one person who cant grasp what next man up means...

[ghost1986]

[quote name='Perfekt' timestamp='1336055982' post='1070883']
This could be a rough season if players dont step up.
[/quote]
Well they're gonna have to. This is the worst blow to us in a while. Now you can add basketball on the list of things not to do along with staying away from the stairs.

[admartian]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1336080213' post='1071577']
thats not a dig at you, but just that one person who cant grasp what next man up means...
[/quote]
lol fair enough. just misread it cos of the multiple fullstops.