Harbaugh Says Patriots Titles Are Tainted

[PSG_Mud]

Is this one of those scorpion and the frog tales? Anyone else reminded by this fairytale?

[quote][i][b]The Scorpion and the Frog[/b][/i] is a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fable"]fable[/url] about a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpion"]scorpion[/url] asking a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frog"]frog[/url] to carry him across a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature. The fable is used to illustrate the position that the behaviour of some creatures is irrepressible, no matter how they are treated and no matter what the consequences.[/quote]

[Alexir]

[quote name='PSG_Mud' timestamp='1335919601' post='1069481']
Is this one of those scorpion and the frog tales? Anyone else reminded by this fairytale?
[/quote]

I remember the tale about the gingerbread man riding on that fox's nose across the water...same sad ending

[img]http://www.jacquelinerogers.com/gman%20and%20fox.jpg[/img]

[TXRaven]

I really do not have a problem with this. It is very unlike Harbs to give an answer like that but it was a rare moment that he let his guard down, and said what he really felt. It shows he is human. I am sure our players will back their coach on the field, just like the 2000 Ravens did in Tennessee.

[757RavensFan]

[quote name='jimmypowder' timestamp='1335907947' post='1069343']
Well let's talk about last years champioship game where all down makers and scoreboard had the wrong
down at the very end of the game .is that why Cundiff and the rest rushed so much to get off the kick???

HMMMMMMM!
[/quote]
The down markers controlled by the officials were correct. the scoreboard controlled by the Patriots was wrong. The markers are the only official down.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1335892036' post='1069033']
I don't disagree with what he said, but the fact is that a) he has zero titles to his name and b ) the Ravens just lost to the Patriots in heartbreaking fashion. People will spin it as sour grapes. He did himself and the team no favors, especially in this post-draft desperate for news period.
[/quote]
As much as it hurts to say it, it's true. The Pats have a legacy, and it didnt come all by cheating, i mean come on. If the Saints got caught and was penalized, how wouldn't the Pats get the same thing done. I hate NE, probably as much as i do Pittsburgh, maybe even more since the lost in NE last year, BUT you can't call them out when he's in no position of power to do so. Flacco and Harbuagh should win a title before opening they're mouths...

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='WinnipegRaven' timestamp='1335915427' post='1069433']
I love this guys post.....

"You are just not terribly bright if you believe the Pats only had success because of some perceived benefit received from filming coaches’ signals.
For there to have been a benefit prior to 2007 there also would also have had to be the opposite after 2007 and yet we see that that is not the case.
If you still believe your own discombobulated logic that the Pats only found success due to filming signals, you are none too bright! The facts speak for themselves, though I imagine facts don’t help some of you very much.
_________________________________
Have you ever REALLY looked at the facts – or just glossed over them?
Before Spygate was revealed – 2000-2006:
Patriots post-season record 12-2
Patriots W/L composite: 173-51
15-1: Steelers
14-2: Rams, Chargers
13-3: Steelers, Broncos, Eagles
12-4: Colts (3x), Jaguars, Titans
11-5; Panthers
10-6: Raiders, Jets
After Spygate was revealed – 2007-2011
Patriots post-season record: 4-4
Patriots opponent W/L composite: 81-47
12-4: Ravens
11-5: Jets, Chargers, Jaguars
10-6: Giants
9-7: Ravens, Giants
8-8: Broncos
Ever wonder how the Patriots could win an NFL record 22 consecutive games with only 1 player who will make the Hall of Fame?
[size=5][b]The Patriots went from dominating the Steelers and Colts[/b][/size] – two teams that won and reached multiple Super Bowls themselves, to losing to the 10-6 and 9-7 Giants in the Super Bowl.
The Patriots are relevant only because the rules changes regarding player safety have negated their inability to play defense or run the ball. They played 4 teams in all of 2011 with a winning record and were a dropped Lee Evans TD from watching the Super Bowl from home.
The Patriots benefitted from Spygate and would NOT have 3 Super Bowls without it. They may have won games and competed, but they wouldn’t have Lombardis."
[/quote]
But then again, ask every Flacco fan on these forums, your post is basically stats. And stats arent always accurate. Right guys?

Who would be under more scrutiny? The Colts w/Manning who was loved by every referee in the NFL, or Pittsburgh who questionably won 2 SB's, or NE who probably has the ref's under the parole?

[BloodRaven]

Slow news day.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1335928185' post='1069574']

As much as it hurts to say it, it's true. The Pats have a legacy, and it didnt come all by cheating, i mean come on. If the Saints got caught and eam was penalized, how wouldn't the Pats get the same thing done. I hate NE, probably as much as i do Pittsburgh, maybe even more since the lost in NE last year, BUT you can't call them out when he's in no position of power to do so. Flacco and Harbuagh should win a title before opening they're mouths...
[/quote]

Harbs doesn't need a "position of power" to tell the truth. He just happened to have a vehicle presented to make the statement and the nuggets to say it. I'm daggone proud of Coach and believe he is sincere in what he said and the message sent. Maybe it will help to dilute some of the cynicism related to the belief that every NFL team cheats in one form or another.

And it wasn't only the pats that he spoke of, just happens that is what the tabloid like talking heads latched onto.

[raybaby]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1335928441' post='1069578']
But then again, ask every Flacco fan on these forums, your post is basically stats. And stats arent always accurate. Right guys?
[/quote]
Why are you even bringing Flacco in this? This is why "homers" come at you so hard because you bring his name into something that has nothing to do with him. Are you capable of not making a forum about him?

[tonyg6996]

It's a sad day in the world when somebody can get blasted for saying that cheating is wrong. In this new twitter age people just want headlines, not the truth. When you listen to the actual interview, there is nothing controversial about what he said. The gist of what he said was that cheating isn't worth it, because the truth always comes out, and when it does people will look at you differently. But "OMG He said the Patriots didn't deserve their rings, what an idiot!!! He's just jealous!!!"

[PurpleDrink]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1335897940' post='1069146']
Well at least we know what the"Late For Work" main story will be about tomorrow.
[/quote]


True.

[T3hRaven]

Are the Ravens ever in the media for something good? Every time we come up it's for some stupid (really non-) controversy.

[arnie_uk]

All he said is he wouldn't cheat, even once, because then there would always be question marks surrounding your team and titles and he used the patriots as examples. They were caught one game but now there is question marks surrounding there whole legacy and dynasty. He didnt say they cheated the whole way through but just that one game brings into question everything.... Hence why he would never condone it.


That's the point of what he said. Nothing more.

[BloodRaven]

Teddy Bruschi is still a dooshbag.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1335954076' post='1069665']
Teddy Bruschi is still a dooshbag.
[/quote]
This is one of those rare occasions where I agree with you

[ThePurpleWall]

the 3 are "tainted" i agree with that.

[CapoRocky]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1335894245' post='1069077']


This is how he should have responded, [u][i]"Considering the fact that I wasn't a part of the Patriots coaching staff during Spygate[/i][/u]
[u][i]or the Saints coaching staff during bounty gate, I can't comment on what went on w/ those organizations during those[/i][/u]
[u][i]times. My opinions on the subject don't matter. Ultimately, the league front office is the one who has to deal with[/i][/u]
[u][i]these situations and I'll trust that they'll do what's best for the league. Ultimately, I'm responsible for what happens[/i][/u]
[u][i]with the Ravens and I'll work within the rules to give our team the best opportunity to win a Superbowl. Next guestion"[/i][/u]

Now Harbaugh is on the phone calling both coaches trying to explain what he meant by his comments.
Seriously, it's not like we owned the Patriots in regular season or the playoffs and we really don't need
to give them anymore bulletin board material.

Sometimes it's just best to keep your mouth shut!!
[/quote]

I disagree. What the Saints and Patriots did was wrong and it's right to say something about it rather than just to take it as the status quo.

[DWplayer]

I loved what Harbaugh said. What he shouldn't have done was backtrack and try to smooth it over. Say it and stand by it.

[Dnyce215]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1335907749' post='1069341']
Like I [u][b][i]originally[/i][/b][/u] stated. The punishments fit the [b][i][u]proof[/u][/i][/b] the NFL had. The NFL had absolutely NO grounds to punish for more than ONE incident against the Jets for taping. There is no evidence of the Patriots doing the same thing during their Super Bowls. Did they probably do it? Hell ya. But the simple fact is there is no evidence to take anything more from the Patriots. If the NFL had done so, New England would have literally sued the NFL for millions of dollars and won.
[/quote]
I see what your saying, the NFL could of made an example of the Pats with the spygate. Just like they did with the Saints. I don't care if they need more evidence this is not the Court system, you got them taping the Jets, and they said they were taping the practices or teams walk through. The [b]SMOKING GUN[/b] is the taped Jets practice!!!

[akacrow]

I am absolutely irrate that Harbaugh apologized for mentioning that the Patriots cheated, Bilicheat didn't apologize for cheating in the first place. What kind of person becomes more indignant about someone pointing out a lie than someone actually telling the lie in the first place? Absolutely ridiculous!

"on Sunday, Sept. 16, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell went on national TV and promised he would get to the bottom of the Patriots' sign-stealing. Four days later, the NFL announced all videotapes and other spying materials compiled by the Patriots had been obtained by the league and destroyed. Goodell, who until then had been very upfront in addressing the Beli-Cheat scandal, didn't go back on television to say what the tapes contained; the commissioner has been in radio silence about the Patriots since the files arrived at the NFL's Park Avenue headquarters. The league acted in a hurry to dispose of damning documents, but has not revealed what was in the tapes and notes, nor said why there was a rush to get rid of them.

This weekend, in an e-mail exchange with NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, I asked twice whether the Patriots' documents contained evidence of cheating in the Super Bowl, and Aiello twice declined to either confirm or deny the existence of such evidence. The first time, he changed the subject with a detailed response about the original penalty; and the second time, after I protested he hadn't answered my questions, he replied, "I did answer your questions to the extent I'm going to answer them.

As a matter of logic, refusing to deny something is not the same as admitting it. But if the Patriots' tapes and documents contained no indication of cheating in the Super Bowl, it would be strongly in the NFL's interest to publicize this. Instead, the New England documents were shredded within roughly 48 hours of the NFL receiving them -- see timeline below. The rapid shredding occurred although Goodell said nothing about plans to destroy the materials when he was on national TV vowing his purpose was "maintaining the integrity of the NFL."

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/070925&sportCat=nfl"][color="#2e1443"]sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/...25&sportCat=nfl[/color][/url]

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='raybaby' timestamp='1335935123' post='1069618']
Why are you even bringing Flacco in this? This is why "homers" come at you so hard because you bring his name into something that has nothing to do with him. Are you capable of not making a forum about him?
[/quote]
Who let you out of the kitchen?

LOL just kidding. I like when homers "come at me" bro. I feel like he deserves to be mentioned in every thread (not forum).

[flaccopoe]

[quote name='Dnyce215' timestamp='1335891704' post='1069021']
What is wrong with telling the truth or how you feel? Really I don't like the media or so called fans( you get mad at what I'm saying I am talking to you!!!) When players say how they feel they are ungrateful, and don't appreciative of the opportunity. It is funny everybody toe the line and be quiet, I don't know how the majority of you live that way.
[/quote]

I myself appreciate honesty from coaches/players. You should be grateful when they choose to tell you how they are genuinely feeling, it helps you tap into the team mentality, as well as that of the athlete in general. If you don't want to hear their answers, you shouldn't ask the questions in the first place.

[flaccopoe]

[quote name='akacrow' timestamp='1335993818' post='1070214']
I am absolutely irrate that Harbaugh apologized for mentioning that the Patriots cheated, Bilicheat didn't apologize for cheating in the first place. What kind of person becomes more indignant about someone pointing out a lie than someone actually telling the lie in the first place? Absolutely ridiculous!

"on Sunday, Sept. 16, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell went on national TV and promised he would get to the bottom of the Patriots' sign-stealing. Four days later, the NFL announced all videotapes and other spying materials compiled by the Patriots had been obtained by the league and destroyed. Goodell, who until then had been very upfront in addressing the Beli-Cheat scandal, didn't go back on television to say what the tapes contained; the commissioner has been in radio silence about the Patriots since the files arrived at the NFL's Park Avenue headquarters. The league acted in a hurry to dispose of damning documents, but has not revealed what was in the tapes and notes, nor said why there was a rush to get rid of them.

This weekend, in an e-mail exchange with NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, I asked twice whether the Patriots' documents contained evidence of cheating in the Super Bowl, and Aiello twice declined to either confirm or deny the existence of such evidence. The first time, he changed the subject with a detailed response about the original penalty; and the second time, after I protested he hadn't answered my questions, he replied, "I did answer your questions to the extent I'm going to answer them.

As a matter of logic, refusing to deny something is not the same as admitting it. But if the Patriots' tapes and documents contained no indication of cheating in the Super Bowl, it would be strongly in the NFL's interest to publicize this. Instead, the New England documents were shredded within roughly 48 hours of the NFL receiving them -- see timeline below. The rapid shredding occurred although Goodell said nothing about plans to destroy the materials when he was on national TV vowing his purpose was "maintaining the integrity of the NFL."

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/070925&sportCat=nfl"][color=#2e1443]sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/...25&sportCat=nfl[/color][/url]
[/quote]

Money can buy you anything, even 3 Lombardi Trophies. We know Goodell wouldn't dare endanger his PR magnet/cash cow, the Bradtriots by airing their dirty little secret. Not every conspiracy is a theory...

[flaccopoe]

[color=#4b0082][i]“If you’re cheating, in the end, you’re going to get discredited,” Harbaugh said. “It’s just not worth it.”[/i][/color]

[ThePurpleWall]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1335893842' post='1069073']
[url="http://wnst.net/wordpress/admin-categories/crabs-n-beer/harbaugh-issues-statement-regarding-patriots-belichick-asterisk-comments/"]http://wnst.net/word...erisk-comments/[/url]

Good statement. Should smooth everything over.

I appreciate honesty but the media is a game. You have to play it right.
[/quote]

and yet i still dont care that people dont like that harb told the truth

[McAdam55]

Harbaugh is just saying it like it is, i think most people can say that they are tainted, their championships should all have an *

[Gordo52]

What do the Patriots and Tiger Woods have in common?

Neither of them have won since they got caught cheating.

[raybaby]

[quote name='akacrow' timestamp='1335993818' post='1070214']
I am absolutely irrate that Harbaugh apologized for mentioning that the Patriots cheated, Bilicheat didn't apologize for cheating in the first place. What kind of person becomes more indignant about someone pointing out a lie than someone actually telling the lie in the first place? Absolutely ridiculous!

"on Sunday, Sept. 16, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell went on national TV and promised he would get to the bottom of the Patriots' sign-stealing. Four days later, the NFL announced all videotapes and other spying materials compiled by the Patriots had been obtained by the league and destroyed. Goodell, who until then had been very upfront in addressing the Beli-Cheat scandal, didn't go back on television to say what the tapes contained; the commissioner has been in radio silence about the Patriots since the files arrived at the NFL's Park Avenue headquarters. The league acted in a hurry to dispose of damning documents, but has not revealed what was in the tapes and notes, nor said why there was a rush to get rid of them.

This weekend, in an e-mail exchange with NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, I asked twice whether the Patriots' documents contained evidence of cheating in the Super Bowl, and Aiello twice declined to either confirm or deny the existence of such evidence. The first time, he changed the subject with a detailed response about the original penalty; and the second time, after I protested he hadn't answered my questions, he replied, "I did answer your questions to the extent I'm going to answer them.

As a matter of logic, refusing to deny something is not the same as admitting it. But if the Patriots' tapes and documents contained no indication of cheating in the Super Bowl, it would be strongly in the NFL's interest to publicize this. Instead, the New England documents were shredded within roughly 48 hours of the NFL receiving them -- see timeline below. The rapid shredding occurred although Goodell said nothing about plans to destroy the materials when he was on national TV vowing his purpose was "maintaining the integrity of the NFL."

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/070925&sportCat=nfl"][color=#2e1443]sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/...25&sportCat=nfl[/color][/url]
[/quote]

Exactly. People say there was only evidence of them taping the Jets. But Mangini was apart of the Patriots spygate teams before he went to the Jets. If the tapes weren't as bad as Boston fans & ESPN tries to make it.. why did the league destroy the evidence and not further explain their actions? It would be one thing if the Jets organization had no ties to the Patriots and they had just caught them in the act and that's why it got reported but in reality it got reported because Mangini had prior knowledge of it and didn't want them to use it on his new team. It's pretty obvious it was not just a one time incident.