Is It Only The Media Who Thinks That MLB Is A Need For Us?

[wolfpack]

I have seen a lot of sites that say ILB/MLB is a need for us, despite that we have Lewis, McClain and Ellerbe plus a lot of other guys that can play there. So i don't really understand why that is a need, sure Lewis might be in his last year, but i wouldn't call it a need because of that. And we didn't draft any ILB's and only signed one UDFA LB, who i don't even know if he plays on the inside.
So do you guys consider it a need or a luxury? But lets not turn this into a topic where we discuss if the Ravens made a mistake by not signing Burfict, there was a reason to his huge fall.

[Ravenslifer]

Yes. I have been saying this forever, but the same people who think we need an ILB are the same people that keep calling our defense "old". What they really mean is that Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are old, and there's a theory floating around that once they retire we will fall apart defensively. If anything, Ray's missing time last year and how that turned out should have calmed some of that talk down. But I certainly think with Jameel in the fold and young guys like Ellerbe, we'll be good. And it's not like Ray won't be here this season. I think resigning Jameel was a big priority in the offseason, and once that was done the front office felt it didn't need to force the issue of drafting an ILB

[wolfpack]

Yeah, after McClain was resigned i would not call ILB a need. And the only reason a lot of us wanted Hightower was because of the Best Player Available and not because of need. But it just shows the difference between what the media say and what the reality is.

[GrimCoconut]

Yes and no. Yes, I think the need of an ILB is a tad exaggerated. With that said, we do need to find a replacement for Ray eventually. I don't think McClain is that guy but I do think he is good enough to win us games which is what's important. The truth is, there was no MLB in this draft that stood out to be as exceptional after Luke Kuechly and Mychal Kendricks. Those were the two best in my opinion. I wasn't even sold on Hightower as the Mike, and I saw him as a replacement for McClain more than Lewis. Now, next year there is a true replacement in Te'o, so it will be interesting to see if we draft him. I would definitely take Manti.

[Tiz]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1335712832' post='1067131']
Yes and no. Yes, I think the need of an ILB is a tad exaggerated. With that said, we do need to find a replacement for Ray eventually. I don't think McClain is that guy but I do think he is good enough to win us games which is what's important. The truth is, there was no MLB in this draft that stood out to be as exceptional after Luke Kuechly and Mychal Kendricks. Those were the two best in my opinion. I wasn't even sold on Hightower as the Mike, and I saw him as a replacement for McClain more than Lewis. Now, next year there is a true replacement in Te'o, so it will be interesting to see if we draft him. I would definitely take Manti.
[/quote]

I agree with you.
It's not the most pressing need right now but ideally you'd like to have a guy grooming under rayray for atleast a yr.

[rmw10]

What Grim said pretty much sums it up. If there was a ILB that the front office thought was good enough to learn behind Ray and take over the reigns next year, they would have taken him. McClain and Ellerbe are both good #2s as ILB, and we could suffice with them as the starters, but I think it would be much better to have that stud ILB. The need is greatly over exaggerated, but it probably is an important position to look for in the next offseason.

[justifythegame]

MLB is the biggest need for the Ravens moving forward. Ray lewis is what like 37? A 16 yr veteran. While he defies the odds and continues to play (and i think he will play again at a pro bowl level next yr), there is no one to take his place in 2013. If Ray is still playing or playing at a high level past that then its great, but i don't think its likely.

McClain can start, but he is just an average serviceable #2 MLB. He doesn't make plays or have the instincts of a typical LB that plays on a reputed defense such as the ravens. the very fact he hit FA and didn't get much intrest from teams including the ravens early on speaks volumes. There are a ton of LBs in the NFL that can rack up tackles, that doesn't make them anything special imo. But there are a select group of LBs who can recognize what an offense is doing and make game changing plays. Had we got a 1st round caliber MLB we would be moving in the right direction. But i don't disagree with the notion that there wasnt such a good lb available this year, i just disagree with the insinuation that MLB is not a need.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1335715406' post='1067171']
MLB is the biggest need for the Ravens moving forward. Ray lewis is what like 37? A 16 yr veteran. While he defies the odds and continues to play (and i think he will play again at a pro bowl level next yr), there is no one to take his place in 2013. If Ray is still playing or playing at a high level past that then its great, but i don't think its likely.

McClain can start, but he is just an average serviceable #2 MLB. He doesn't make plays or have the instincts of a typical LB that plays on a reputed defense such as the ravens. the very fact he hit FA and didn't get much intrest from teams including the ravens early on speaks volumes. There are a ton of LBs in the NFL that can rack up tackles, that doesn't make them anything special imo. But there are a select group of LBs who can recognize what an offense is doing and make game changing plays. Had we got a 1st round caliber MLB we would be moving in the right direction. But i don't disagree with the notion that there wasnt such a good lb available this year, i just disagree with the insinuation that MLB is not a need.
[/quote]

I think you are way off on calling Jameel a average MLB. His one of the best in the league. If he keeps getting better, i see him going to the pro-bowl.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1335715406' post='1067171']
MLB is the biggest need for the Ravens moving forward. Ray lewis is what like 37? A 16 yr veteran. While he defies the odds and continues to play (and i think he will play again at a pro bowl level next yr), there is no one to take his place in 2013. If Ray is still playing or playing at a high level past that then its great, but i don't think its likely.

McClain can start, but he is just an average serviceable #2 MLB. He doesn't make plays or have the instincts of a typical LB that plays on a reputed defense such as the ravens. the very fact he hit FA and didn't get much intrest from teams including the ravens early on speaks volumes. There are a ton of LBs in the NFL that can rack up tackles, that doesn't make them anything special imo. But there are a select group of LBs who can recognize what an offense is doing and make game changing plays. Had we got a 1st round caliber MLB we would be moving in the right direction. But i don't disagree with the notion that there wasnt such a good lb available this year, i just disagree with the insinuation that MLB is not a need.
[/quote]

Well here's the question - is ILB even a very important position in the NFL anymore? With the way the game has changed, I'd say an impact pass rusher or cornerback is much more important than even an elite ILB. I believe ILBs just don't have the impact on the game the way they did 20+ years ago. Admittedly I was too young to really get a perspective on 80s NFL players, but even from the 90s till now I think that position has become much less important. So to me, if I have an average ILB but 2-3 elite pass rushers, it's better than 1-2 elite ILBs and 1 elite pass rusher.

[UxbridgeRaven]

What a large proportion of the media want is stories and us taking an inside linebacker early will allow them to write endless articles comparing some poor kid to Ray that appeal to the casual fan and portraying it as a big need works in the same way.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1335717424' post='1067208']
Well here's the question - is ILB even a very important position in the NFL anymore? With the way the game has changed, I'd say an impact pass rusher or cornerback is much more important than even an elite ILB. I don't believe ILBs just don't have the impact on the game the way they did 20+ years ago. Admittedly I was too young to really get a perspective on 80s NFL players, but even from the 90s till now I think that position has become much less important. So to me, if I have an average ILB but 2-3 elite pass rushers, it's better than 1-2 elite ILBs and 1 elite pass rusher.
[/quote]
Good analysis, and i think you made some good points. Especially now when a QB can throw 4000 yards easily (well most QBs *ahem*), you need pass rushers over guys than can stuff the run. Even the giants were successful on defense because they had a rotation with 3 pass rushers so it makes sense.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

I'd say that MLB is a need for us because if you take Lewis out of the equation, you have Ellerbe, BA and McClellan. Only two have ever seen more than one game of significant time at the position and BA himself is 35 (36 by the time the season starts). We don't have a lot there and we certainly don't have a difference maker. It's not like the team will suck when Ray retires though.

[edreedfromtheu]

I've been saying linebacker is the biggest need on this team the last 2 years. The Ravens still haven't gotten someone to play next to Ray Lewis since Bart Scott left. And even back then, they should have already had a youngster in place to learn. The guys currently on the roster just are NOT it.

The best prospect they had at linebacker was Antwan Barnes as a pass-rusher from the LB spot... and they let him go to keep even lesser talent. They really missed on the Tavares Gooden draft pick.

Ray is still great, but will get abused by the better tight ends in the league going across the middle. This would be a obvious, except the rest of the linebackers are even worse in coverage than the GOAT is.

Hopefully Upshaw pans out. But even if he does... they've still got depth issues at linebacker.

For the record, I'm not counting Suggs as a linebacker. He plays the majority of his snaps at defensive end, even though he's good at dropping back when needed to.

[The Raven]

No, it's not just the media. I think so too. Yes, we may still have McClain, but people must have forgotten that we run a 3-4 defense featuring 2 ILBs. Ray and Ayanbadejo are obviously not long term solutions, and Ellerbe is a bum. Maybe McClellan can do something, maybe Bynes. The point is, in a year, only two of the true ILB's currently on the roster will even be in the league. Ray and Ayanbadejo are likely to be gone. We need depth, and I don't trust Ellerbe, Bynes, or McClellan enough at the present moment.

[Blex64]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1335721687' post='1067285']
No, it's not just the media. I think so too. Yes, we may still have McClain, but people must have forgotten that we run a 3-4 defense featuring 2 ILBs. Ray and Ayanbadejo are obviously not long term solutions, and Ellerbe is a bum. Maybe McClellan can do something, maybe Bynes. The point is, in a year, only two of the true ILB's currently on the roster will even be in the league. Ray and Ayanbadejo are likely to be gone. We need depth, and I don't trust Ellerbe, Bynes, or McClellan enough at the present moment.
[/quote]

We run a hybrid and play all kinds of weird schemes. Were certainly not a true 3-4.

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1335721210' post='1067281']
I've been saying linebacker is the biggest need on this team the last 2 years. The Ravens still haven't gotten someone to play next to Ray Lewis since Bart Scott left. And even back then, they should have already had a youngster in place to learn. The guys currently on the roster just are NOT it.

The best prospect they had at linebacker was Antwan Barnes as a pass-rusher from the LB spot... and they let him go to keep even lesser talent. They really missed on the Tavares Gooden draft pick.

Ray is still great, but will get abused by the better tight ends in the league going across the middle. This would be a obvious, except the rest of the linebackers are even worse in coverage than the GOAT is.

Hopefully Upshaw pans out. But even if he does... they've still got depth issues at linebacker.

For the record, I'm not counting Suggs as a linebacker. He plays the majority of his snaps at defensive end, even though he's good at dropping back when needed to.
[/quote]

He split snaps almost right down the middle last year at DE and OLB.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1335723736' post='1067312']
We run a hybrid and play all kinds of weird schemes. Were certainly not a true 3-4.



He split snaps almost right down the middle last year at DE and OLB.
[/quote]

Whatever scheme we run, we utilize 2 ILB type players and 2 OLB/DE type players in our base formations.

[truthistold2u]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1335721210' post='1067281']
I've been saying linebacker is the biggest need on this team the last 2 years. The Ravens still haven't gotten someone to play next to Ray Lewis since Bart Scott left. And even back then, they should have already had a youngster in place to learn. The guys currently on the roster just are NOT it.

The best prospect they had at linebacker was Antwan Barnes as a pass-rusher from the LB spot... and they let him go to keep even lesser talent. They really missed on the Tavares Gooden draft pick.

[b]Ray is still great, but will get abused by the better tight ends in the league going across the middle. This would be a obvious, except the rest of the linebackers are even worse in coverage than the GOAT is.[/b]

Hopefully Upshaw pans out. But even if he does... they've still got depth issues at linebacker.

For the record, I'm not counting Suggs as a linebacker. He plays the majority of his snaps at defensive end, even though he's good at dropping back when needed to.
[/quote]

What TEs abused the Ravens?

[gabefergy]

[quote name='truthistold2u' timestamp='1335724659' post='1067321']
What TEs abused the Ravens?
[/quote]
Exactly. The Ravens are one of the best teams in the NFL at shutting down opposing TEs.

ILB is certainly a need when looking to the future, but we have solid depth for next season and there werent that many prospects in this year's draft.

[big hits and ball hawks]

It's a need, but not a pressing need as the media and some fans (both Ravens' and around the league) view it. That's my opinion anyway. I probably would be more comfortable if we drafted a ILB next year, but I'm also confident, if Ray retires, that McClain and whoever is rotating next to him will do a good enough job that there wouldn't be too much, if any, of a production drop off. Even if we do draft a top ILB prospect next year, I still believe McClain will be the "field general" after Ray.

[wayne]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1335715406' post='1067171']
MLB is the biggest need for the Ravens moving forward. Ray lewis is what like 37? A 16 yr veteran. While he defies the odds and continues to play (and i think he will play again at a pro bowl level next yr), there is no one to take his place in 2013. If Ray is still playing or playing at a high level past that then its great, but i don't think its likely.

[b]McClain can start, but he is just an average serviceable #2 MLB. He doesn't make plays or have the instincts of a typical LB that plays on a reputed defense such as the ravens. the very fact he hit FA and didn't get much intrest from teams including the ravens early on speaks volumes. There are a ton of LBs in the NFL that can rack up tackles, that doesn't make them anything special imo.[/b] But there are a select group of LBs who can recognize what an offense is doing and make game changing plays. Had we got a 1st round caliber MLB we would be moving in the right direction. But i don't disagree with the notion that there wasnt such a good lb available this year, i just disagree with the insinuation that MLB is not a need.
[/quote]

I agree!
[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1335717174' post='1067201']
I think you are way off on calling Jameel a average MLB. His one of the best in the league. If he keeps getting better, i see him going to the pro-bowl.
[/quote]

He is average for the time being, I just hope that he hasn't reached his ceiling yet, hope he gets better.

[truthistold2u]

Jameel has improved every year and could possibly go for 100 total tackles next year. Also he got attention from other teams

[berad]

ILB isn't a huge need but it's there, has been for some years. McClain is good but Ellerbe can be a liability - we saw him get smoked against NE. Who's after them? BA, Bynes, some other unheralded guys?

[justifythegame]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1335721210' post='1067281']
I've been saying linebacker is the biggest need on this team the last 2 years. The Ravens still haven't gotten someone to play next to Ray Lewis since Bart Scott left. And even back then, they should have already had a youngster in place to learn. The guys currently on the roster just are NOT it.

The best prospect they had at linebacker was Antwan Barnes as a pass-rusher from the LB spot... and they let him go to keep even lesser talent. They really missed on the Tavares Gooden draft pick.

Ray is still great, but will get abused by the better tight ends in the league going across the middle. This would be a obvious, except the rest of the linebackers are even worse in coverage than the GOAT is.

Hopefully Upshaw pans out. But even if he does... they've still got depth issues at linebacker.

For the record, I'm not counting Suggs as a linebacker. He plays the majority of his snaps at defensive end, even though he's good at dropping back when needed to.
[/quote]
Amazing how a person who is willing to point out flaws people don't want to hear get negative votes. I agree with everything you said. The Barnes thing is off topic but yeah i was one of those people who thought Barnes would've been a great pass rusher opposite suggs as well, but greg mattison didn't know how to call a defense. Now barnes is a double digit sacker on another team which really stings. But i have been saying that Paul Kruger can be a really good pass rusher and has great instincts to drop into coverage. Kruger finally got moved to olb last year and he notched 6 sacks as a backup and made some plays in the playoffs. This was his opportunity to make a statement with JJ gone but with upshaw here i see Kruger leaving when his contract is up and becoming an all around 34 olb for someone else much like barnes. Not that i don't think upshaw cant be better, i just really feel for kruger who got forced to play DE and didn't get to start at olb much like barnes.

[Free Agent]

Its because Ray is getting older. We think we should get someone now, so that he has the opportunity to learn from Ray for a few years, before Ray retires. As far as it being a need, we have Ray, Jameel is a decent starter, and Ellerbe and Ayanbadejo are quality depth. Its not really an area of need, on paper.

[BloodRaven]

It's rare to find an ILB who can play 3 downs effectively, these days most starters only play around 60% of the snaps that an every down defender like Suggs would. Most of the hype for the position came from a different era, where we'll miss Ray the most isn't necessarily the big hits, you can replace most if not all his current production but you can't replace his God-tier inspiration, leadership and intangibles.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1335729665' post='1067410']
It's rare to find an ILB who can play 3 downs effectively, these days most starters only play around 60% of the snaps that an every down defender like Suggs would. Most of the hype for the position came from a different era, where [b]we'll miss Ray the most isn't necessarily the big hits, you can replace most if not all his current production but you can't replace his God-tier inspiration, leadership and intangibles[/b].
[/quote]
This is why we need to draft Manti Te'o. We could be like the Colts (without the dramatic end to Ray Lewis by going to another team) where we replace one future HOF LB for another potential future HOF LB (Manti). Manti is how Ray Lewis plays his game and they play very similar in my eyes. I think that kid is so special, I would trade our 2014 1st round pick to ensure we got him that's how much I like him and I do not like trading 1st round picks.

What I found most interesting is how Ozzie back-tracked, which he rarely does. I have no references right now, but I have a memory. Maybe my memory is mixed up here, but I remember a couple of months ago before our season ended that Ozzie said he would be looking for Ray Lewis' successor in the 2012 NFL Draft. Then on December 11th, 2011 Manti Te'o (one of the best LB prospects coming out) returned to school to finish his business there. We then go through the playoffs and beat the Texans to play against the Patriots in the AFCCG and lose, where we find ourselves on February 1st, 2012 having our annual end of season press conference also known as the State of the Ravens. Here a reporter asks Ozzie and the gang what were their priorities in the draft. Ozzie gave a list of offensive line, pass-rusher, and wide receiver.

I know it's too early to discuss this, but I am discussing it because people seem worried about Lewis' age and they wanted us to take a replacement now. I hope we get him next year. He would be the perfect successor to Lewis.

[codizzle]

[quote name='truthistold2u' timestamp='1335724659' post='1067321']


What TEs abused the Ravens?
[/quote]
Thank you for callin this out.