Jake Long

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1356911409' post='1283981']
Alright I did some reading and it doesn't exactly sound like rocket science. Perhaps if we can give him a modest contract with incentives and bonuses, he may be enticed here, and if we could back load his contract as well he might fit. I'll let the professionals take care of it though.
[/quote]

It is foolish to do such a thing. Giving Ray Lewis more bonus money on an already bloated contract is only going to serve to increase the already enormous cap hit he gives us, which is disproportionate to his level of play, and all that bonus money counts against the cap until that contract is over even after he retires. If Ray isn't smart enough to hang up the pads it's time to cut him.

If you don't think substantial cuts won't have to happen to get a guy like Jake Long signed, you're kidding yourself. Ray Lewis' retirement/cutting would be only the start to getting us enough money for that. Your first assessment was accurate.

[black blood purple passion]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1356922002' post='1284240']
It is foolish to do such a thing. Giving Ray Lewis more bonus money on an already bloated contract is only going to serve to increase the already enormous cap hit he gives us, which is disproportionate to his level of play, and all that bonus money counts against the cap until that contract is over even after he retires. If Ray isn't smart enough to hang up the pads it's time to cut him.

If you don't think substantial cuts won't have to happen to get a guy like Jake Long signed, you're kidding yourself. Ray Lewis' retirement/cutting would be only the start to getting us enough money for that. Your first assessment was accurate.
[/quote]

I was talking about offering Jake Long an incentive laden contract, I apologize if that wasn't clear. I understand though that if anything were to happen, thats guaranteed money which counts against the cap which would really screw us over if Long was seriously hurt and got cut or something. I would just love to get a proven LT, would give us so much flexibility to improve in the draft.

[cobrajet]

Jake Long would be a great addition to this team. I believe we would not be able to afford him with our cap issues, but I would love it if Ozzie could pull it off. I think if Joe had a better O-line and that could start with a left tackle, with the up and coming receivers we have, and with Cam gone - our offense could finally be what we always wanted it to be.

[black blood purple passion]

so with Ray retiring for sure, and Ed potentially, would that free up enough cap space for a player like Long?

[JO_75]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1357241759' post='1288315']
so with Ray retiring for sure, and Ed potentially, would that free up enough cap space for a player like Long?
[/quote]

We should be able to have enough if that happens. With Ray retiring, Ed is a Free Agent so we should have enough to make a big move like signing Jake Long. I'm hoping we do and we can move Oher to Right Tackle while moving KO to LG.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1357245160' post='1288347']


We should be able to have enough if that happens. With Ray retiring, Ed is a Free Agent so we should have enough to make a big move like signing Jake Long. I'm hoping we do and we can move Oher to Right Tackle while moving KO to LG.
[/quote]
But we also have to get Joe to a long term deal. Not enough cap.... Albert is who we should be going after

[Guest Im An Ozzie Newsome Guy]

Meh; am I the only one who hopes the Baltimore Ravens don't go after an offensive lineman for this upcoming free agency period? Even if the Ravens manage to get someone like Jake Long, I just think there's too much of a risk offering an "outsider" that much money and be a key piece to the offensive line.

I don't what it is, but time-in-and-time-out, again, the best offensive lines are developed through the NFL Draft. Just look at when the offensive line was at its best for Baltimore, during their Super Bowl year: Jonathan Ogden, Edwin Mulitalo and Jeff Mitchell were all drafted by the Ravens, while Mike Flynn was an undrafted free agent pick-up by Baltimore. Heck, the latter three were all drafted (or not drafted, at all) in the 4th round or later. Only long-time NFL veteran Harry Swayne was not drafted by Baltimore.

That's the thing: It's all development and gelling as an unit. The irony is I actually believe the Ravens have 4/5ths of the pieces to build a dominant line for years to come. You have the leader in Marshal Yanda at right guard; you have a promising center, if the "pre-season" game against the Cincinnati Bengals was a sign, with Gino Gradkowski; you have a brilliant run blocker in Kelechi Osemele at left guard, who had to step-up and play out of position, as only a rookie, at right tackle. Then, you have Michael Oher. I still have hope for Oher [i]if[/i] there isn't any last minute problems that force John Harbaugh to move Oher to left tackle; but that shouldn't happen, next year. So, there; you have Michael Oher at right tackle.

Yeah, I know; there's still a hole at left tackle. But, honestly, how many times has a big-time offensive lineman free agent had success with another team. The only one I can recall, off the top of my head, was Steve Hutchinson when he signed with the Vikings, coming from the Seahawks. I guess Matt Birk kinda counts, but I attribute that to Birk's leadership and knowledge as to why he was able to continue his success with the Ravens. Plus, do I even need to mention how [i]great [/i]of signing, it was, when Baltimore picked-up Bryant McKinnie?

Thus, the future left tackle, for the Baltimore Ravens, could easily be a mid-round steal in this year's draft. Or, at worse, it could be Jah Reid, for now...

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Chris J. Faria' timestamp='1357248009' post='1288390']
Meh; am I the only one who hopes the Baltimore Ravens don't go after an offensive lineman for this upcoming free agency period? Even if the Ravens manage to get someone like Jake Long, I just think there's too much of a risk offering an "outsider" that much money and be a key piece to the offensive line.

I don't what it is, but time-in-and-time-out, again, the best offensive lines are developed through the NFL Draft. Just look at when the offensive line was at its best for Baltimore, during their Super Bowl year: Jonathan Ogden, Edwin Mulitalo and Jeff Mitchell were all drafted by the Ravens, while Mike Flynn was an undrafted free agent pick-up by Baltimore. Heck, the latter three were all drafted (or not drafted, at all) in the 4th round or later. Only long-time NFL veteran Harry Swayne was not drafted by Baltimore.

That's the thing: It's all development and gelling as an unit. The irony is I actually believe the Ravens have 4/5ths of the pieces to build a dominant line for years to come. You have the leader in Marshal Yanda at right guard; you have a promising center, if the "pre-season" game against the Cincinnati Bengals was a sign, with Gino Gradkowski; you have a brilliant run blocker in Kelechi Osemele at left guard, who had to step-up and play out of position, as only a rookie, at right tackle. Then, you have Michael Oher. I still have hope for Oher [i]if[/i] there isn't any last minute problems that force John Harbaugh to move Oher to left tackle; but that shouldn't happen, next year. So, there; you have Michael Oher at right tackle.

Yeah, I know; there's still a hole at left tackle. But, honestly, how many times has a big-time offensive lineman free agent had success with another team. The only one I can recall, off the top of my head, was Steve Hutchinson when he signed with the Vikings, coming from the Seahawks. I guess Matt Birk kinda counts, but I attribute that to Birk's leadership and knowledge as to why he was able to continue his success with the Ravens. Plus, do I even need to mention how [i]great [/i]of signing, it was, when Baltimore picked-up Bryant McKinnie?

Thus, the future left tackle, for the Baltimore Ravens, could easily be a mid-round steal in this year's draft. Or, at worse, it could be Jah Reid, for now...
[/quote]
You realize the addition of Mckinnie last year made our offensive line one of the better ones in the league and that despite Mckinnie being past his prime he was able to play well enough at LT considering what we were paying him.

Factor in that Grubbs was out for half the year last year too and the fact that we had Cam Cameron and you see the difference quality LT play makes

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamOL.php?year=2011&season=reg

[Free Agent]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1357247616' post='1288385']
But we also have to get Joe to a long term deal. Not enough cap.... Albert is who we should be going after
[/quote]

I agree with you on this. Go after the underrated yet ubertalented Albert, thus saving a significant amount of money. Sure, Long would be a dream come true, but we just don't have that kind of money to spend. We draft too darn well.

[black blood purple passion]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1357245160' post='1288347']
We should be able to have enough if that happens. With Ray retiring, Ed is a Free Agent so we should have enough to make a big move like signing Jake Long. I'm hoping we do and we can move Oher to Right Tackle while moving KO to LG.
[/quote]

thats exciting, and we let Boldin Loose, cut McChinnie, Bobbie Williams (thats got to be a couple million off the cap) Bring in Long, sign Joe to a rich yet modest deal, hopefully to the tune of 13-14 million/year (ideally closer to 13). But we may not be able to extend Kruger the deal he will want, so it will depend on our drafting.

I think if we bring in Long the offence is set up for success. Our Line would be fantastic, RB's are amazing, Joe can be better with increased protection. Torrey and Jones stretching the field, pitta and Doss underneath don't forget about LQ, Streeter, Thompson (showed solid hands vs Bengals) and even David Reed looked better!

So the majority of our picks can be spent on defence, with a late flyer on a guard or centre for depth. Maybe a 4th on a Da'Rick Rogers if we want a true #1 type guy.

[Passepartout]

In order to get Long, the team would have to cut a lot of people it seems. So that they can get the money to Long. But just don't think that Long will come to the Ravens. Miracles do happen though.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Passepartout' timestamp='1357264376' post='1288592']
In order to get Long, the team would have to cut a lot of people it seems. So that they can get the money to Long. But just don't think that Long will come to the Ravens. Miracles do happen though.
[/quote]

With Ray's retirement, just cutting Boldin gets the team in play. Birk's retirement would help a lot too.

[dhstandard]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357264542' post='1288597']
With Ray's retirement, just cutting Boldin gets the team in play. Birk's retirement would help a lot too.
[/quote]

Boldin will probably re-sign for less. We aren't THAT much underspace to sign a guy like Long. Honestly, we barely have enough space to resign our own guys. We'd just have to hope that Long's injuries and poor season have devalued him. Probably not....

Then again with all the new head coaches and GM's, signing Long to a big contract only to have him struggle through injuries and have sub-par play would doom their job. If were lucky these guys will be conservative and not try to make a blockbuster deal which may not pan out like Mario Williams, Albert Haynesworth, Kevin Kolb etc. I'm not going to get my hopes up but we need a LT badly and Jake Long would fill that spot.

[black blood purple passion]

[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1357268167' post='1288701']
Boldin will probably re-sign for less. We aren't THAT much underspace to sign a guy like Long. Honestly, we barely have enough space to resign our own guys. We'd just have to hope that Long's injuries and poor season have devalued him. Probably not....

Then again with all the new head coaches and GM's, signing Long to a big contract only to have him struggle through injuries and have sub-par play would doom their job. If were lucky these guys will be conservative and not try to make a blockbuster deal which may not pan out like Mario Williams, Albert Haynesworth, Kevin Kolb etc. I'm not going to get my hopes up but we need a LT badly and Jake Long would fill that spot.
[/quote]

What if we traded Boldin, Cut Mc Chinnie, Cut Bobbie Williams, Ed, Ray, and Birk all retire. And We don't sign Cary back, we could sign a nice LT. Albert at least.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1357273692' post='1288909']
What if we traded Boldin, Cut Mc Chinnie, Cut Bobbie Williams, Ed, Ray, and Birk all retire. And We don't sign Cary back, we could sign a nice LT. Albert at least.
[/quote]

McKinnie isn't under contract, nor is Reed. Ray and Birk retiring nets an additional $6.4 million in cap space, if my math is correct. Bobbie Williams is another $1.2 million. Getting rid of Boldin in some fashion nets $6 million. That's a total cap relief of $13.6, leaving roughly $94 million on the books. That's going to leave about $27-28 million to play with, depending on how much the cap goes up next season. Flacco's cap number is going to be at least $12 million, so that's more like $16 to play with. It's not impossible, but it would be hard to get someone like that under contract along with the rookies and the team fillers. Tough, very tough, but not impossible.

Something to consider is cutting Jacoby. I believe that would net an additional $4 million, if you really want to make a hardcore run at it or had a deal in place and needed the extra room. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, I have a feeling this is going to be exactly like the Nnamdi Asomugha situation a few years ago.

[black blood purple passion]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357275967' post='1288947']
McKinnie isn't under contract, nor is Reed. Ray and Birk retiring nets an additional $6.4 million in cap space, if my math is correct. Bobbie Williams is another $1.2 million. Getting rid of Boldin in some fashion nets $6 million. That's a total cap relief of $13.6, leaving roughly $94 million on the books. That's going to leave about $27-28 million to play with, depending on how much the cap goes up next season. Flacco's cap number is going to be at least $12 million, so that's more like $16 to play with. It's not impossible, but it would be hard to get someone like that under contract along with the rookies and the team fillers. Tough, very tough, but not impossible.

Something to consider is cutting Jacoby. I believe that would net an additional $4 million, if you really want to make a hardcore run at it or had a deal in place and needed the extra room. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, I have a feeling this is going to be exactly like the Nnamdi Asomugha situation a few years ago.
[/quote]

yeah, we have this tendency to never really bring in big name guys, but smaller name guys that just play better for us. I'd love to see Long here though, he made so much money off his first contract hopefully he invested it well and doesn't need a lot to be enticed to a contender.

[SecretAgentMan]

I want Albert. Anyone on the Left plz

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1357276746' post='1288956']
yeah, we have this tendency to never really bring in big name guys, but smaller name guys that just play better for us. I'd love to see Long here though, he made so much money off his first contract hopefully he invested it well and doesn't need a lot to be enticed to a contender.
[/quote]

I'd love to see him here too, Flacco would be a lot better without having to worry about Oher and Rice would get a boost as well. Smart structuring on the contract could help. If Long wants to play for a real contender, I can't see how this team wouldn't be in play though. We'll see, some guys are all about the money.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1357277113' post='1288963']
I want Albert. Anyone on the Left plz
[/quote]

Probably a better option in that he'll be cheaper than Long. I still have a really hard time seeing KC just letting him walk, he has to get the tag.

[black blood purple passion]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357277213' post='1288965']
I'd love to see him here too, Flacco would be a lot better without having to worry about Oher and Rice would get a boost as well. Smart structuring on the contract could help. If Long wants to play for a real contender, I can't see how this team wouldn't be in play though. We'll see, some guys are all about the money.
[/quote]

case and point Mario Williams....goes to the black hole for money. Have fun not going to the play offs ever again. Personally I'd much rather have taken a large but smaller contract, stay with the Texans, and learn how to invest properly but hey thats just me.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1357315949' post='1289180']
case and point Mario Williams....goes to the black hole for money. Have fun not going to the play offs ever again. Personally I'd much rather have taken a large but smaller contract, stay with the Texans, and learn how to invest properly but hey thats just me.
[/quote]

If I was playing I would want to go down as one of the greatest, which requires a good team and Super Bowls, so I'm right there with you.

[dhstandard]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1357273692' post='1288909']
What if we traded Boldin, Cut Mc Chinnie, Cut Bobbie Williams, Ed, Ray, and Birk all retire. And We don't sign Cary back, we could sign a nice LT. Albert at least.
[/quote]

Honestly I wouldn't trade Boldin. He was our leading receiver this year by far. He is the only receiver on this team who is physical and uses that to get open instead of just relying on speed. 6 millions is too much but we need him.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1357340291' post='1289662']
Honestly I wouldn't trade Boldin. He was our leading receiver this year by far. He is the only receiver on this team who is physical and uses that to get open instead of just relying on speed. 6 millions is too much but we need him.
[/quote]

That's not entirely true, his stats are not streets ahead of anyone else on the team. Boldin has 65 catches for 921 yards and 4 TDs. Torrey has almost as many yards, bringing in 49 catches for 855 yards and twice as many touchdowns with 8. Pitta has almost as many catches, nabbing 61 balls for 669 yards and 7 TDs. Rice also has 61 catches for 478 and 1 TD. Boldin has a lot of memorable moments this year, I would say, he's undeniably the toughest receiver on the team, but he doesn't score often and has trouble separating from man coverage. Yes, playing in the slot would help his numbers, but he's also getting quite old and his production does not warrant a $7 million dollar salary anyway you spin it. He's never broken 1000 yards in Baltimore, and overall he's been a big disappointment. Boldin has been a good player, but not the number 1 receiver we thought we were getting after that trade.

[dhstandard]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357342252' post='1289706']
That's not entirely true, his stats are not streets ahead of anyone else on the team. Boldin has 65 catches for 921 yards and 4 TDs. Torrey has almost as many yards, bringing in 49 catches for 855 yards and twice as many touchdowns with 8. Pitta has almost as many catches, nabbing 61 balls for 669 yards and 7 TDs. Rice also has 61 catches for 478 and 1 TD. Boldin has a lot of memorable moments this year, I would say, he's undeniably the toughest receiver on the team, but he doesn't score often and has trouble separating from man coverage. Yes, playing in the slot would help his numbers, but he's also getting quite old and his production does not warrant a $7 million dollar salary anyway you spin it. He's never broken 1000 yards in Baltimore, and overall he's been a big disappointment. Boldin has been a good player, but not the number 1 receiver we thought we were getting after that trade.
[/quote]


Who thought we were getting a number 1 receiver? He played next to Larry Fitzgerald. Brandon Marshall was the number one guy but we missed out on him and settled for Boldin. I never expected Boldin to be a true number one. He was coming in right at his peak playing next to one of the best receivers of all time.

Also, look at what you posted. Boldin was just as effective as Torrey and the next best guys are a TE and RB. There is no RECEIVER better than him on the team besides Torrey. No receiver is as productive. We need to keep him. Just not at 6 million.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1357342644' post='1289720']
Who thought we were getting a number 1 receiver? He played next to Larry Fitzgerald. Brandon Marshall was the number one guy but we missed out on him and settled for Boldin. I never expected Boldin to be a true number one. He was coming in right at his peak playing next to one of the best receivers of all time.

Also, look at what you posted. Boldin was just as effective as Torrey and the next best guys are a TE and RB. There is no RECEIVER better than him on the team besides Torrey. No receiver is as productive. We need to keep him.[b] Just not at 6 million.[/b]
[/quote]

His numbers earlier in his career, before Fitzgerald, were believed to be indicative of his ability to be a number 1 receiver, as did his contract. But that was essentially my point, he's not worth the $7 million he's being paid. If we're going to make a run at someone in free agency, we need the $6 million cutting him would free up.

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1357250498' post='1288409']


thats exciting, and we let Boldin Loose, cut McChinnie, Bobbie Williams (thats got to be a couple million off the cap) Bring in Long, sign Joe to a rich yet modest deal, hopefully to the tune of 13-14 million/year (ideally closer to 13). But we may not be able to extend Kruger the deal he will want, so it will depend on our drafting.

I think if we bring in Long the offence is set up for success. Our Line would be fantastic, RB's are amazing, Joe can be better with increased protection. Torrey and Jones stretching the field, pitta and Doss underneath don't forget about LQ, Streeter, Thompson (showed solid hands vs Bengals) and even David Reed looked better!

So the majority of our picks can be spent on defence, with a late flyer on a guard or centre for depth. Maybe a 4th on a Da'Rick Rogers if we want a true #1 type guy.
[/quote]

McKinnie is a FA so we can't cut him.

[arnie_uk]

I know I made this thread but since we gave rice a deal we don't have the cap

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1357411535' post='1290264']
I know I made this thread but since we gave rice a deal we don't have the cap
[/quote]

Finally someone here is being realistic.

[dhstandard]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1357411535' post='1290264']
I know I made this thread but since we gave rice a deal we don't have the cap
[/quote]

Yeah I just looked at the numbers. After signing Flacco and our draft picks we will most likely only be a few million under... -sigh- I love fantasizing about it before the season ends though.

[Mt. Crushmore]

Jake Long wants at least $10 million per year.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/27/report-jake-long-wants-at-least-10-million-annually/