Flacco Wouldn't Make It On Another Team?

[arnie_uk]

coming from the nfl player so it must be true

[GrimCoconut]

I think Caldwell will really improve Joe this year and help him reach the next level with his game. I got good feelings about this union between these two.

[TheMadRaven]

Just my two cents...

Joe Flacco = 6'6"cannon arm, smart, tough, winner. Largely held back by Cam?Harbs?Steve? and the receiving core thus far. The Ravens are and have always been (even when they were Orange) a running and D minded team. When you watch film he [u]largely[/u] never has an open target other than his check down and saviour Ray Rice. I am a Q fan, but he is a number 2 – plain and simple. DMase was the same thing. Take a look at the top 10-15 QBs(minus Brady and Manning as they are in there own league) and look at the core surrounding the QB and then look at the weapons Flacco has.... Big difference.

I am glad this guy is a Raven and I hope he someday gets a more than mediocre group of receivers around him. I think Torrey and Pitta are the future – let’s add some serious skills at our #1 and see what he can do.

[Ravenslifer]

In ESPN's re-mock they have him going to the Chiefs. Imagine what Flacco would have done playing behind that line in the AFC West throwing to Dwayne Bowe.

[CapoRocky]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1334312573' post='1047975']


I hope you won't take this as picking on you, but I just have to say: Ray Lewis spent a considerable amount of his career literally being The Best In The World At What He Does[color=#444444][font=sans-serif, arial,]™.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Ray will have a great post-NFL career in motivational speaking, too.

[Hardbaugh]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1334319648' post='1047990']
I think Caldwell will really improve Joe this year and help him reach the next level with his game. I got good feelings about this union between these two.
[/quote]

I hope so GC. As much greif as I've given Flacco on this board I actually think he is held back to some degree by Cameron. How much he is held back is debateable but there's no doubt it's atleast some.

I've been a believer for atleast 2 years that Cam is coaching for his next gig as the head man somewhere instead of embracing his position with the Ravens. If you look at the best offenses in the NFL the OC's tailor the playbook with the relative strengths and weaknesses of the quarterback in mind. Flacco had always looked more comfortable in the shotgun and hurry up but Cam refuses to give him the autonomy to run it.

I'm not big on Flacco excuses (by the fan base) but I have to say I'm interested in Caldwell working with him and am excited as well. I am looking at Caldwell right now as OC in waiting.... As a Ravens fan I'd feel better about paying Flacco big when he shows the ability to put up big numbers.

[Robbyrobbass]

This is why I dont like some of Ravens fans because y'all don't see the big picture camthis cam that we win inspite of cam we was in the top 15 in offence last season he was here all four years calling the same plays that got us in the playoffs the last four seasons I guess y'all want Joe passing every down meaning he could possibly throw more hints I mean we was a dropped pass away from the damn super bowl who y'all think called that play Cam did <[i]no name calling, please>[/i]

[RavensWin09]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1334330638' post='1048049']
I hope so GC. As much greif as I've given Flacco on this board I actually think he is held back to some degree by Cameron. How much he is held back is debateable but there's no doubt it's atleast some.

I've been a believer for atleast 2 years that Cam is coaching for his next gig as the head man somewhere instead of embracing his position with the Ravens. If you look at the best offenses in the NFL the OC's tailor the playbook with the relative strengths and weaknesses of the quarterback in mind. Flacco had always looked more comfortable in the shotgun and hurry up but Cam refuses to give him the autonomy to run it.

I'm not big on Flacco excuses (by the fan base) but I have to say I'm interested in Caldwell working with him and am excited as well. I am looking at Caldwell right now as OC in waiting.... As a Ravens fan I'd feel better about paying Flacco big when he shows the ability to put up big numbers.
[/quote]
the less involved cameron is with the offense, the better! Flacco seemed to have a strong bond with jim zorn last year which is why he expressed his discontent with his departure. i hope jim is easy to get along with and is instrumental to joe's success. though, i don't believe some of the fan comments that he will take over OC midseason because i don't remember a time a team switched coordinators midseason. I don't think that he will get Peyton stats in one year of learning but i do think his stats will jump significantly along with a couple of other factors (torrey and pitta learning more, rumors we will go for a #1 WR, hopefully improved o-line play, etc)

[beasy2487]

[quote name='RavensWin09' timestamp='1334343808' post='1048149']
the less involved cameron is with the offense, the better! Flacco seemed to have a strong bond with jim zorn last year which is why he expressed his discontent with his departure. i hope jim is easy to get along with and is instrumental to joe's success. though, i don't believe some of the fan comments that he will take over OC midseason because[b] i don't remember a time a team switched coordinators midseason[/b]. I don't think that he will get Peyton stats in one year of learning but i do think his stats will jump significantly along with a couple of other factors (torrey and pitta learning more, rumors we will go for a #1 WR, hopefully improved o-line play, etc)
[/quote]

You don't remember the '06 ravens? lol.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='Robbyrobbass' timestamp='1334331385' post='1048056']
This is why I dont like some of Ravens fans because y'all don't see the big picture camthis cam that we win inspite of cam we was in the top 15 in offence last season he was here all four years calling the same plays that got us in the playoffs the last four seasons I guess y'all want Joe passing every down meaning he could possibly throw more hints I mean we was a dropped pass away from the damn super bowl who y'all think called that play Cam did <[i]no name calling, please>[/i]
[/quote]

This might be the most reasonable post in board history.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Robbyrobbass' timestamp='1334331385' post='1048056']
This is why I dont like some of Ravens fans because y'all don't see the big picture camthis cam that we win inspite of cam we was in the top 15 in offence last season he was here all four years calling the same plays that got us in the playoffs the last four seasons I guess y'all want Joe passing every down meaning he could possibly throw more hints I mean we was a dropped pass away from the damn super bowl who y'all think called that play Cam did <[i]no name calling, please>[/i]
[/quote]he also called a draw on 3/4 and short when the run was being stuffed

[Blex64]

[quote name='Robbyrobbass' timestamp='1334331385' post='1048056']
This is why I dont like some of Ravens fans because y'all don't see the big picture camthis cam that we win inspite of cam we was in the top 15 in offence last season he was here all four years calling the same plays that got us in the playoffs the last four seasons I guess y'all want Joe passing every down meaning he could possibly throw more hints I mean we was a dropped pass away from the damn super bowl who y'all think called that play Cam did <[i]no name calling, please>[/i]
[/quote]

Correlation is not the same as causation. Just because he was here doesn't mean he was good, or contributed much of anything to us winning. We lost several games because of his awful calls, and almost lost the Texans postseason game because of him. He called maybe 3 decent games all year long. Our offense was 15th in yards per game with a top 3 running back and a top 10 quarterback. Its underperforming for our talent pool. He's stagnant, predictable, conservative, and useless. He's been a consistent problem on every team he's been on. He held back Rivers and Brees when they were younger, and his biggest accomplishment is leading the Dolphins to a 1-15 season.

I'm not sure [i]you [/i]see the big picture if you think he's worth keeping around. We should have easily gone, at least, 14-2 this season. All 4 of our losses came to sub-.500 teams. Its not all on Cam, but he's far and away the biggest weak point on the team. Beating the pathetically bad Jaguars would have landed us the first seed and home field advantage for the AFC championship, and we likely never would have had to rely on a receiver who caught 4 balls all season to make the Super Bowl.

[i]<Deleted>[/i]

[redrum52]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1334371692' post='1048363']
Correlation is not the same as causation. Just because he was here doesn't mean he was good, or contributed much of anything to us winning. We lost several games because of his awful calls, and almost lost the Texans postseason game because of him. He called maybe 3 decent games all year long. Our offense was 15th in yards per game with a top 3 running back and a top 10 quarterback. Its underperforming for our talent pool. He's stagnant, predictable, conservative, and useless. He's been a consistent problem on every team he's been on. He held back Rivers and Brees when they were younger, and his biggest accomplishment is leading the Dolphins to a 1-15 season.

I'm not sure [i]you [/i]see the big picture if you think he's worth keeping around. We should have easily gone, at least, 14-2 this season. All 4 of our losses came to sub-.500 teams. Its not all on Cam, but he's far and away the biggest weak point on the team. Beating the pathetically bad Jaguars would have landed us the first seed and home field advantage for the AFC championship, and we likely never would have had to rely on a receiver who caught 4 balls all season to make the Super Bowl.

[i]<Deleted>[/i]
[/quote]

Ha, burned... One of the few things Flacco haters and enthusiast can usually agree on is firing Cam. His conservative play calling and misusing of personnel has been a major contributor to our our stagnant offense. Lets all not forget what happens in 2010 when we struggled with 2nd half scoring. Cam has consistently been a thorn in our teams side and I feel is a main reason Flacco gets the criticism he gets. When the pass works we run, run works we pass. Deep pass isn't working and the qb is pressured we decide to keep trying deep though our line is getting embarrassed. This should be his last real shot, though he shouldn't have a job this season. Is it coincidence that every person or team he leaves the success of their offense increases. He's stubborn and refuses to accept blame constantly throwing players under the bus by saying it was lack of execution which may be true sometimes but is also due to his lack of adjustments. When Flacco has time to make changes at the line the offense usually thrives.

[SuRihtanil]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1334319648' post='1047990']
I think Caldwell will really improve Joe this year and help him reach the next level with his game. I got good feelings about this union between these two.
[/quote]

Eh I don't see that happening, I think he will be the same player next year he is now a Vet QB. What you saw from him in past season, probably similar to what you will see this season. I do think he would do better with a stand out, big, youth, talented WR that gets YAC. If we could pick up a WR thats another Falcon's Jones... Joe would def have someone he can rely on for 4 downs. I like Boldin but IMO he is a #2 guy and so is Smith, Joe has no #1 guy that makes all the catches to throw the ball at.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='SuRihtanil' timestamp='1334387960' post='1048413']


Eh I don't see that happening, I think he will be the same player next year he is now a Vet QB. What you saw from him in past season, probably similar to what you will see this season. I do think he would do better with a stand out, big, youth, talented WR that gets YAC. If we could pick up a WR thats another Falcon's Jones... Joe would def have someone he can rely on for 4 downs. I like Boldin but IMO he is a #2 guy and so is Smith, Joe has no #1 guy that makes all the catches to throw the ball at.
[/quote]read through this thread and you will see why that first few sentences is bull. There has been plenty, plenty, of qbs that improve in years 5 and 6. The two mannings Brady and brees to name a few

[rlh445]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1334400790' post='1048426']
read through this thread and you will see why that first few sentences is bull. There has been plenty, plenty, of qbs that improve in years 5 and 6. The two mannings Brady and brees to name a few
[/quote]

Right, but Flacco isn't Brady or Brees. Every time someone tries to say, 'But, but look at these other QBs after their fourth years!!,' those QBs always happen to be ones that are just better than Joe. I hope the guy goes out and plays his butt off too, but let's stop comparing elite QBs' seasons with Joe. It stopped making sense last year.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1334420029' post='1048473']
Right, but Flacco isn't Brady or Brees. Every time someone tries to say, 'But, but look at these other QBs after their fourth years!!,' those QBs always happen to be ones that are just better than Joe. I hope the guy goes out and plays his butt off too, but let's stop comparing elite QBs' seasons with Joe. It stopped making sense last year.
[/quote]but fact is, AT THIS STAGE in their careers they werent better than joe, not many QBs after four years have been better than joe, thats the point im making. Joe was as good if not better than some of them AT THIS STAGE.

Its these next few years that begin to define QBs legacy. its these next few years where joe will either take that next step like they all did and begin to be talked about as an elite QB, or he will continue on this trend and be an avergae to above average QB.

But to say he is what he is about 4 years is pure and utter bull, this is now the time QBs make the big step, if they are going to make it. If anything this year will be the year we see the real joe flacco, based on history of past QBs

[codizzle]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1334424720' post='1048497']
but fact is, AT THIS STAGE in their careers they werent better than joe, not many QBs after four years have been better than joe, thats the point im making. Joe was as good if not better than some of them AT THIS STAGE.

Its these next few years that begin to define QBs legacy. its these next few years where joe will either take that next step like they all did and begin to be talked about as an elite QB, or he will continue on this trend and be an avergae to above average QB.

But to say he is what he is about 4 years is pure and utter bull, this is now the time QBs make the big step, if they are going to make it. If anything this year will be the year we see the real joe flacco, based on history of past QBs
[/quote]
Do work son

[Alexir]

Joe Flacco could definitely play for the Patriots. Behind that offensive line and with those receivers, who couldnt!

Yeah, take that brady

[3-4ravdef509]

Flacco has never had a good offense around him...period.

2008: Mason, Clayton, Wilcox, Heap, Mgahee.
Mason was a number 2 receiver by this point, Clayton was too, Wilcox was a solid 3rd, Heap was older and would suffer from injuries often. Mgahee didn't offer a whole lot on the passing game. Oh, and Flacco was a ROOKIE

2009: Mason, Clayton, Williams, Heap, Rice
Mason and Clayton were the same. Williams wasn't any better or worse than Wilcox really. Heap was the same, so the only improvement made was Rice.

2010: Boldin, Mason, Housh, Heap, Rice
Boldin was a mid #1-#2 talent. Mason was barely still a 2. Housh made 2 good plays that year. Heap was older, and Rice wasn't as explosive. And we had no speed because Stallworth was either injured or doing end arounds.

2011: Boldin, Torrey, Williams, Evans, Dickson, Pitta, Rice

Boldin is basically a number 2 now, Torrey is great but young and needs refined....out number 3 receiver for most of the year was wither Reed or a UFA rookie, untill Evans came back to finish his total of 4 catches, Dickson stayed healthier and was quicker than Heap but starting dropping many balls, Pitta was money but wasn't ever the starter, Rice disappeared in the playoffs.

Offensive line hasn't been that good since 2008. 2009 was ok but you could see it was starting to fray, 2010 was a clear regression, last year was down right putrid at times.

And good old Cameron....

So Flacco is supposed to what? Get all emotional and yell according to some people...lol. His maturity and toughness has been the reason we've made the playoffs 4 years...the defense helps him yeah but there were so many games from 2010 to 2011 where we'd score 17-24 points all scored by Flacco. He was our offense. He needs more help so he's not just depending on rice, boldin making contested catches, and a bunch of rookies or aging players past their prime. Get him 1 legitimate number 1 receiver and see what he does.

Flacco needs work, to be sure, but he's already better than most qbs in the league. He's top 10 for sure, I'd say Top 8 knocking on top 5.

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1334316470' post='1047982']
Wasn't it you that i told he was not a true number one receiver. Wow....... look at us now......I am the voice of reason and Flacco is AVERAGE.
[/quote]

No. Fitz, Gerrard, any redskins qb, Matt Cassel, etc are average. Flacco is very good but lacks both consistency with his skills and the talent around him to make himself elite. Being elite is maybe 40% your work ethic and skills and 60% your coaches, team mates, who you play, etc. Brees doesn't break Marinos record with out all those weapons and Sean Payton's brilliant offensive mind

[CapoRocky]

This is the season that Flacco must perform consistantly at a high level to earn his contract.

[POE]

Anybody else check out the video of Joe throwing to the recievers today? I thought Joe looked like he had added some muscle. He looked a little bulked up to me, but wanted to see if you guys saw the same thing.

[Tiz]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1334591148' post='1049454']
This is the season that Flacco must perform consistantly at a high level to earn his contract.
[/quote]

Agree.
Last yr I wasn't overly concerned about regular season stats and wanted to see improvement in the playoffs.

This yr is more about the total package.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='POE' timestamp='1334608535' post='1049723']
Anybody else check out the video of Joe throwing to the recievers today? I thought Joe looked like he had added some muscle. He looked a little bulked up to me, but wanted to see if you guys saw the same thing.
[/quote]
Muscle or fat, whatever it is i hope he doesn't bring back the fu-manchu [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/eyes.gif[/img]

[CapoRocky]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1334609556' post='1049743']
Muscle or fat, whatever it is i hope he doesn't bring back the fu-manchu [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/eyes.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I'd much rather that he grew a beard than that ugly thing.