Flacco Wouldn't Make It On Another Team?

[scrock]

I'm so sick of hearing and reading about how Joe Flacco wouldn't make it in the league without the Ravens defense and the solid running game. Let me ask you this, where was the consistent winning before the Ravens got a QB aka Flacco ? They always had a great defense and a strong run game, that's been the offensive philosophy forever. The Ravens didn't start to win consistently until they got a QB, Joe is only limited by his OC and the lack of reliable WR options. Yes, Boldin is nice but he's lost a step and has been slowed by injuries, Torrey Smith looks like he'll be good but he's been inconsistent to this point. Give Joe a real #3 WR option and continue to develop the TWO TEs and he will be putting up much better numbers and maybe then he will get credit. Check Flacco's stats to Eli's in their first 4 years and you will see Joe has actually outperformed Eli. Joe would have been to a Superbowl in his 4th year, possibly in his 3rd if his WRs didn't drop the ball on him both years.

As long as the Ravens play defense and run the ball Joe will never post numbers like Brady, Rodgers, or Brees. Those guys HAVE to throw for 500 yards every week because their teams dont play defense and their run game is lacking.

It's pretty obvious that Joe is part of the reason we are winning and winning at a record pace. Take away our QB and leave the stellar defense and a solid run game and we're back to going 7-9, 10-6, 4-12, 13-3...inconsistency at its best...that 13-3 year? with Steve McNair at the helm in his last decent year...and he wasnt even putting up numbers as good as Joe's.

Thank you! ...and Good night

[Ravenslifer]

Not worth talking about. Haters are going to hate. People still talk the same about Ben Roethlisberger and he's won 2 superbowls and been to another.

[scrock]

I disagree, with all the hate on Joe recently someone should take and stand and be a voice of reason.

The media takes his comments and runs with them, takes them out of context, etc. Now every NFL fan on every message board on the internet is saying Flacco has nothing to do with the Ravens abilty to win. If you just look at history and look at the numbers, if you understand the offensive philosophy and understand our OC isn't the most inventive person you can easily see why Joe isn't posting huge numbers. Other than the fact he just isn't asked to....Even though we hit on Torrey in the draft the WR position is still thing. Boldin is in his last year and we don't know about Tandon Doss or LaQuan at this point although I like both

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1334083428' post='1046596']
I disagree, with all the hate on Joe recently someone should take and stand and be a voice of reason.

The media takes his comments and runs with them, takes them out of context, etc. Now every NFL fan on every message board on the internet is saying Flacco has nothing to do with the Ravens abilty to win. If you just look at history and look at the numbers, if you understand the offensive philosophy and understand our OC isn't the most inventive person you can easily see why Joe isn't posting huge numbers. Other than the fact he just isn't asked to....Even though we hit on Torrey in the draft the WR position is still thing. Boldin is in his last year and we don't know about Tandon Doss or LaQuan at this point although I like both
[/quote]

Here's the thing - don't give a darn what other fans think. I have fans telling me that Matt Ryan is better, that Josh Freeman is better, that Michael Vick is better, that Tony Romo is better. All of those guys are the same - chokers. When was the last time any of them came up big in a must win game - never. Sure Vick can obliterate a terrible Redskins team, but can he beat a Giants' defense that was terrible all season when it matters - no. Same thing with Romo, his season came down to one game against the Giants, and he blew it. When Flacco's season was on the line against Arizona, he responded by leading a comeback then another against the Steelers the next week. When he lost to the Seahawks, he responded by playing two of his finest games against Cincinnati, a team he's always struggled with, and IN San Francisco, a team with the top ranked defense at the time. What does Matt Ryan do in the playoffs - 0 points. What did Matt Ryan do in the playoffs last year - lost AT HOME. I know how good Joe is, I know how good he can be, and that's all that matters to me.

[BMOREHAWAII]

The 49ers basically have had the same team for years and havent done so well. Insert Jim Harbaugh and you get a superbowl caliber team.
Same with Baltimore, insert John Harbaugh and we have had successful seasons.
You cant credit Joe for winning everything because he doesnt throw the ball and catch it himself, its obviously a team effort.
Flacco is just ad bad as he is good IMO

[dirtybird10]

Yea it is certainly not a coincidence that we have had the longest winning season streak in our franchise history since we got a good quarterback in Joe. Only times we had anything close to that was in 06 with Mcnair and a very strong defense, and 2000 with Dilfer who was at least consistent. Besides those two years it had been very up and down type seasons for the Ravens. Joe has certainly helped solidify the offense enough to where we can be in every game, and consistently win games. Now Joe does have his issues, he certainly has alot of those "what the hell" moments, but he is light years ahead of most qb's we have had in the past and much better than the "average Joe" label he gets.

[scrock]

I ignore fans all the time but I feel like I have to stand up for Joe and try to learn these people some knowledge. It's like having national media commenting on the team, they aren't local, they don't know everything about the team and how they go about winning/playing football. Same with the fans, in this fantasy football world they see Joe not posting 4,000 yard season and they assume he's no good.

Joe won't stand up and argue his case with these people, sure he make comments about believing in himself but he's said in interviews before that he'll let others decide if he's any good.

I'll copy and paste a standard reply like the one at the top of this thread just to spread the message around, haha

[dirtybird10]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1334084207' post='1046602']
The 49ers basically have had the same team for years and havent done so well. Insert Jim Harbaugh and you get a superbowl caliber team.
Same with Baltimore, insert John Harbaugh and we have had successful seasons.
You cant credit Joe for winning everything because he doesnt throw the ball and catch it himself, its obviously a team effort.
Flacco is just ad bad as he is good IMO
[/quote]

Not really, The 49ers have a ton of talent and youth as they have been picking in the top 10-11 for the better part of a decade now. They just simply did not have the coaching to get them to come together until this season. However that is nothing like the Ravens for many reasons. The Ravens have been playoff contenders for the last 4 years now. The 49ers have done it once... The Ravens also had a good coach in Billick who the Ravens had alot of success under. We were playoff contenders nearly every other year. The 49ers have been nothing close to that. Your putting little credit on Flacco coming in to the league and giving the Ravens consistent success, but then saying that Harbaugh came into the league and gave the Ravens consistent success. I think its more a little bit of both.

[scrock]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1334084207' post='1046602']
The 49ers basically have had the same team for years and havent done so well. Insert Jim Harbaugh and you get a superbowl caliber team.
Same with Baltimore, insert John Harbaugh and we have had successful seasons.
You cant credit Joe for winning everything because he doesnt throw the ball and catch it himself, its obviously a team effort.
Flacco is just ad bad as he is good IMO
[/quote]

The 49'ers had the best defense in the league and Frank Gore is a beast....Alex Smith is a game manager and nothing more, Joe Flacco can outplay Alex Smith all day long...Joe was poised against their Defense, Alex ? the Ravens D had him running scared

[adam713]

Show the haters this drive and tell them to [i]<shut up>.[/i]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pQ84OBkngA[/media]

PS: Count the drop balls.

[RavensWin09]

if we didn't have the 32nd best OC in this league right now, i think we would be guranteed top 10. i absolutely admire jay gruden and what he has done this year and fills me with envy that we don't have an OC that puts the offense to his team's strengths and works around his QB, not his ego.

As for Joe, he is certainly better than 3/4 of the QB's in this league and i was flabbergasted to even hear a debate about Tim Tebow being a better QB. i have never seen the media put down a top QB in this league like they do with Joe. He hasn't put up the greatest numbers this year BUT STILL outperformed Ryan, Fitz, Vick, etc. Especially Vick. if i was a GM in this league, i'll pass on having him as my QB just as easily as having Burfict as our MLB.

And i seriously don't get why people say we could take joe out and still win. when have we ever gotten over the 10 win mark besides our super bowl year with any other QB. it proves you still need a great QB and not just stick in any QB with a great D and still win.

[Gordo52]

If you got haters your doing something right.

[Corvus]

The bottom line when it comes to criticizing individual players and any "help" they get from the rest of the team is just that, its a TEAM sport, many call it the ultimate team sport. So whenever I see "(insert player name) would never be as successful if (insert other player name or positional group) weren't as good as they are" I disregard the entire statement.

The thing is, every team is allowed to have a good QB, a good run game, a good defense, good special teams, etc. If your team does not feature a solid positional group in one facet of your team, why don't you ask your team's GM and front office why they don't do their job better? We are lucky that Ozzie, Eric, Pat, Dick, and the rest of our FO know how to evaluate every group and find good players in every market. So, yeah Joe Flacco is helped by the supporting cast around him and on the other side of the ball, and in a perfect world, every team is hitting personnel home runs out of the park. So sorry Broncos that you have one of the best QBs in history and little around him to help him out. Sorry Seahawks that you have a solid defense but your FO whiffs with your entire offense. Shall I go on?

[PeRK82]

I think Joe is one of the best QBs, we all know what is holding him back. I say let him throw it more, and if he messes up. All well , keep letting him throw it.

Countless times i see Joe make a mistake and then CAM runs it the rest of the game. Its a freaking Joke. Whats holding him back is Cam and his 2 WR sets, how in the world is Joe going to be able to throw it when all the WRers are double teamed. We need more Bunch sets and 3 wr sets.

The Defenses always know when we are going to throw or run it. If i know it then its a given that the opposing team does too.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1334085259' post='1046614']
The 49'ers had the best defense in the league and Frank Gore is a beast....Alex Smith is a game manager and nothing more, Joe Flacco can outplay Alex Smith all day long...Joe was poised against their Defense, Alex ? the Ravens D had him running scared
[/quote]
They have had basically the same defense for years. Besides players like Carlos Rogers, 30 years old been around the league. Bowman who ourselves amongst other teams have overlooked and watched him slip into the third round. Put those player who were basically unknown into the right system and now they are stars.
Frank Gore has been in San Fran since 2005. But now Harbaugh is there and they are playoff contenders.
John comes to Baltimore and already have a dominant defense, with superstars on our roster. Drafted Ray Rice who in comparison to Gore is also a "beast".
Flacco who obviously is better than Alex Smith, has been babied since being a starter in Baltimore. Harbaugh AND Cam is a huge part of why we have success in Baltimore and our offense.
You cant compare Joe to what we had before, because we always had horrible QB's who aren't even starters in this league.. Besides an aging McNair who almost took us where we needed to go..

[JO_75]

Cam Cameron is like that itch that just won't go away. All Steve and Ozzie have to do is their best Vince McMahon impersonation and tell Cam... "YOUR FIRED!!!!" and that itch will be gone. Yet it seems the Media somehow gives Cam a pass and hates on Joe. Hell, we are winning in spite of Cam.

I tell you one thing, Flacco is talented enough to where he could make it on any other team. Give him a supporting cast that doesn't drop passes in crucial situations and Joe is a clutch QB. That AFC Title game, that last drive, all I kept thinking about as we were going down the field was the 92 Yard drive in Pittsburgh. Then Lee Evans can't hold on to the ball, just like how TJ dropped the pass the year before in the divisional game against the Steelers. We just need to find a way to put a magnet on to the ball and in our receivers gloves that way the ball sticks and the receivers don't drop passes.

[tctony]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1334083051' post='1046590']
Joe would have been to a Superbowl in his 4th year, possibly in his 3rd if his WRs didn't drop the ball on him both years.
[/quote]

YUP. Flacco isn't the problem. It's our unreliable receiving core. Each and every year with Joe the WRs have made crucial drops in huge games. Football is a game of inches, a game of one or two plays. Our receivers have been (not) making the one or two plays.

[RavensWin09]

[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1334088460' post='1046646']
YUP. Flacco isn't the problem. It's our unreliable receiving core. Each and every year with Joe the WRs have made crucial drops in huge games. Football is a game of inches, a game of one or two plays. Our receivers have been (not) making the one or two plays.
[/quote]
i think our FO has learned over the past couple playoff games that the veteran WR's started setting a trend. getting another one this year would just be setting us up for disappointment again. Draft please!

I can see it now, a lob to alshon jeffery in the end zone at M&T in the AFC championship against the patriots and...........TOUCHDOWN, we're going to the super bowl!

[sameoldbull]

As my professor always tells me, I have to say that correlation isn't necessarily causation. Yet Joe Flacco definitely is the best QB Raven's have had in a very long time and that IS a variable that has to count for something positive. We could also point to that we drafted a two time all-pro RB in Ray Rice or that we hired John Harbaugh as the head coach the same year. Hell I could even play Devil's advocate and say that it is because of Cam Cameron (hired the same year) that is the reason for our consistent winning.
There are a lot of variables that have to be taken account for something complex as the game of football. As someone said earlier, this is a team sport with both offence, defence and special teams!

Joe Flacco isn't to blame for our lack of Superbowl rings, neither is the defence, offence or the special teams. It takes a team to win as well as it takes a team to loose. We should be grateful that we have such a succesfull franchise and just ignore all the haters outside the flock. Haters gonna hate and the Ravens are just gonna keep winning (Hopefully)!

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1334086767' post='1046627']
If you got haters your doing something right.
[/quote]
True!
Flacco is a monster!!!! Rawrrrrr Flacco!

[usmccharles]

[quote name='sameoldbull' timestamp='1334092191' post='1046678'] As my professor always tells me, I have to say that correlation isn't necessarily causation. Yet Joe Flacco definitely is the best QB Raven's have had in a very long time and that IS a variable that has to count for something positive. We could also point to that we drafted a two time all-pro RB in Ray Rice or that we hired John Harbaugh as the head coach the same year. Hell I could even play Devil's advocate and say that it is because of Cam Cameron (hired the same year) that is the reason for our consistent winning. There are a lot of variables that have to be taken account for something complex as the game of football. As someone said earlier, this is a team sport with both offence, defence and special teams! Joe Flacco isn't to blame for our lack of Superbowl rings, neither is the defence, offence or the special teams. It takes a team to win as well as it takes a team to loose. We should be grateful that we have such a succesfull franchise and just ignore all the haters outside the flock. Haters gonna hate and the Ravens are just gonna keep winning (Hopefully)! [/quote]

couldnt agree more. It could be flacco...it could be rice....could be the hc...etc...too many variables changed the first year with all them together to point to one thing but im pretty sure we all agree hes the best qb the ravens have ever had and if cant sign him to a deal....lookout, there will be many angry fans, and for some reason there will be happy fans..

[AsianRice]

I'm waiting on Flacco signing a 7yr deals........

[da#1ravensfan]

Lets trade Joe Flacco for Kyle Boller and see if we win even 6 or 7 games. We should be grateful to even have a quarterback. We worry about every thing else instead about the fact that he performs well when we need him to win. Stop the Flacco bashing because if we did not have him we would not be Super Bowl contenders. At least we dont have a choke artist for a quarterback like Ryan, Romo, etc.

[BMOREHAWAII]

How can you call Romo, Fitz, Matty Ice and co. Choke artists when Flacco is in the same exact boat. He's in the same tier as guys like Cutler, Romo, Sanchez.

[The Raven]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1334106980' post='1046780']
How can you call Romo, Fitz, Matty Ice and co. Choke artists when Flacco is in the same exact boat. He's in the same tier as guys like Cutler, Romo, Sanchez.
[/quote]

Easily, look at the playoff record buddy When has Flacco choked?

[da#1ravensfan]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1334106980' post='1046780']
How can you call Romo, Fitz, Matty Ice and co. Choke artists when Flacco is in the same exact boat. He's in the same tier as guys like Cutler, Romo, Sanchez.
[/quote]
Did the other quarterbacks take their teams to the playoffs and win playoff games on the road in the clutch and if Flacco had recievers that can catch the football when we need then to Flacco would of led is to the Super Bowl once and possibly twice these last few years. Flacco proved that he was clutch this season if only he had the clutch receiver to go with him.

[The Raven]

What is more clutch than putting us in position to beat the Vikings despite trailing the whole game by multiple scores, only to be let down by that idiot kicker?

What is more clutch than throwing that gamewinner to Houshmandzadeh?

What is more clutch than going 92 yards against the Steelers?

What is more clutch than overcoming a 21 point deficit to beat the Cardinals?

What is more clutch than putting the ball in Lee Evans' hands to hopefully win the AFCCG?

[BMOREHAWAII]

Ya he choked, I'm sure he still has nightmares about Polamalu. You can't expect Rice to hold that block. Flacco should have seen him coming . All those wins and playoffs appearances mean nothing without a SB win.

[BMOREHAWAII]

Yeah he's a QB that's what he gets paid to do buddy!

[The Raven]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1334108321' post='1046791']
Ya he choked, I'm sure he still has nightmares about Polamalu. [b]You can't expect Rice to hold that block[/b]. Flacco should have seen him coming . All those wins and playoffs appearances mean nothing without a SB win.
[/quote]

Why the heck not? Why do you make excuses for Rice, but not Joe?! That makes no sense! He's a pro football player, why shouldn't he be expected to? Rice always gets compared to MJD, well MJD CRACKED Shawne Merriman back in 2006 I believe, why shouldn't Rice be expected to block Troy P? Come on...