Dare I Say...Rstructure Haloti Ngata's Contract?

[truthistold2u]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1333720657' post='1044047']
I think he is talking about Webb's 10M bonus, not Ngata's.
[/quote]

Well he responded to my comment which was on the thread subject of Ngatas contract

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='truthistold2u' timestamp='1333718974' post='1044007']
Says Ngata counts for 17.9M as a cap hit this year and 15M of it is in bonuses (5M as part of signing bonus and 10M in other bonuses)

[url="http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap-hit/"]http://www.spotrac.c...ravens/cap-hit/[/url]
[/quote]that website is wrong, that 10 mil is split over the remaining years of his deal which is 4 years, ie $2.5mil cap hit each year, add that to the signing bonus that is attributable to this year which is $5mil plus this years base salary off $2.9mil, you get a total cap hit of $10.4 mil.

[truthistold2u]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1333723102' post='1044098']
that website is wrong, that 10 mil is split over the remaining years of his deal which is 4 years, ie $2.5mil cap hit each year, add that to the signing bonus that is attributable to this year which is $5mil plus this years base salary off $2.9mil, you get a total cap hit of $10.4 mil.
[/quote]

You have a counter link? As this explains the Ravens lack of cap room and I've seen at least 10 sources talking about a 2012 10M option bonus for Ngata with just his 25M signing bonus being split evenly

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='truthistold2u' timestamp='1333723677' post='1044107']
You have a counter link? As this explains the Ravens lack of cap room and I've seen at least 10 sources talking about a 2012 10M option bonus for Ngata with just his 25M signing bonus being split evenly
[/quote]Roster bonuses are split over the length of the contract left from the time of the bonus for the cap hit
they dont count in that year in full, its basic cap knowledge. He gets the bonus in whatever year, but for the cap hit it is split.

Its the same as webb, in year 2 he gets a 5mil bonus, split over the last 5yrs for cap purposes

[truthistold2u]

So this is all just you guessing? and speculating?

I also don't believe an option bonus is the same as a roster bonus as I have seen both listed with different figures and counted seperately in the same year for a player and then combined for the total cap hit

Supply a credible link as everything else says otherwise

just show 1 credible thing that lowers the cap number

[arnie_uk]

what? how is it guessing? its cap law/rules whatever you want to call it

believe what you want, but that 10mil, like webbs 5 mil next year is split over the remaining years. its not a workout bonus its an option bonus thats treated the same as a signing bonus

its not guesswork or speculation, its the law of the cap

[berad]

[quote name='truthistold2u' timestamp='1333724728' post='1044123']
So this is all just you guessing? and speculating?

I also don't believe an option bonus is the same as a roster bonus as I have seen both listed with different figures and counted seperately in the same year for a player and then combined for the total cap hit

[b]Supply a credible link as everything else says otherwise

just show 1 credible thing that lowers the cap number[/b]
[/quote]

[quote]
While Webb’s five-year extension (six-year total) is reportedly worth a total of $50 million, the figure against 2012 cap is $2.615 million. Under his restricted tender, Webb was initially due $2.742 million.

I’m no mathematician, but my iPhone calculator says that’s a total savings of … drum roll … about $127,000.[/quote]

[url="http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2012/04/06/late-for-work-46-webb-smith-league%E2%80%99s-best-cb-tandem-by-end-of-2012/"]LINK[/url]

[arnie_uk]

here is brian mcfarland's (bmore ravor) salary cap updates, this one is a few weeks old, but in it is the spreadsheet to the ravens salary cap at the time, which was backed up by i think it was Jason La Confora on nfl.com who announced the official cap room of every team on a weekly basis. So at this time of the article, Brians Spreadsheet and ravens cap room was the same as the official figures announced from the nfl.

In this Ngatas cap figure is 10.4 i said above, the 10mil is split over 4 years, his 25 mil signing bonus split over 5 and then then 2.9 mil salary for the year.

[url="http://www.ravens24x7.com/columns/The-Money-Clip-Baltimore-Ravens-Salary-Cap-Analysis/SALARY-CAP-UPDATE-Ravens-estimated-to-be-5.945M-under-cap"]http://www.ravens24x7.com/columns/The-Money-Clip-Baltimore-Ravens-Salary-Cap-Analysis/SALARY-CAP-UPDATE-Ravens-estimated-to-be-5.945M-under-cap[/url]

[truthistold2u]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1333724904' post='1044127']
[url="http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2012/04/06/late-for-work-46-webb-smith-league%E2%80%99s-best-cb-tandem-by-end-of-2012/"]LINK[/url]
[/quote]

Talking about Ngata, not Webb

[arnie_uk]

see above

[berad]

[quote name='truthistold2u' timestamp='1333725148' post='1044133']
Talking about Ngata, not Webb
[/quote]

Ugh, Ngata, Webb too many defenders. Sorry, my bad.

[truthistold2u]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1333725141' post='1044131']
here is brian mcfarland's (bmore ravor) salary cap updates, this one is a few weeks old, but in it is the spreadsheet to the ravens salary cap at the time, which was backed up by i think it was Jason La Confora on nfl.com who announced the official cap room of every team on a weekly basis. So at this time of the article, Brians Spreadsheet and ravens cap room was the same as the official figures announced from the nfl.

In this Ngatas cap figure is 10.4 i said above, the 10mil is split over 4 years, his 25 mil signing bonus split over 5 and then then 2.9 mil salary for the year.

[url="http://www.ravens24x7.com/columns/The-Money-Clip-Baltimore-Ravens-Salary-Cap-Analysis/SALARY-CAP-UPDATE-Ravens-estimated-to-be-5.945M-under-cap"]http://www.ravens24x....945M-under-cap[/url]
[/quote]

Some blog that posts different salaries than even baltimoreravens.com?

I'm supposed to trust this more than the baltimore sun that says 17.9M?

I just read a few of that McFarland guys articles and he just guesses on most things and later writes about new rules he wasn't aware of.

I know players get paid different amounts of money all the time, I'm just wondering about the cap numbers each year and some kind of CREDIBLE source.

Give me a credible newspaper. NFL.com (non blog) Even ESPN

Doesn't really matter as this isn't going to suddenly open up money no one else was aware of, but for cap hits and just general information I would like some kind of credible source

[truthistold2u]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1333724855' post='1044126']
what? how is it guessing? its cap law/rules whatever you want to call it

believe what you want, but that 10mil, like webbs 5 mil next year is split over the remaining years. its not a workout bonus its an option bonus thats treated the same as a signing bonus

its not guesswork or speculation, its the law of the cap
[/quote]

You read that guys "articles" he hears some numbers, corrects himself a few times, then says this is what the numbers could look like and then lists some figures. Then if you look at some of his other articles he's changed that figure likely after hearing more information.

Seems like he just guesses.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='truthistold2u' timestamp='1333726974' post='1044163']
Some blog that posts different salaries than even baltimoreravens.com?

I'm supposed to trust this more than the baltimore sun that says 17.9M?

I just read a few of that McFarland guys articles and he just guesses on most things and later writes about new rules he wasn't aware of.

I know players get paid different amounts of money all the time, I'm just wondering about the cap numbers each year and some kind of CREDIBLE source.

Give me a credible newspaper. NFL.com (non blog) Even ESPN

Doesn't really matter as this isn't going to suddenly open up money no one else was aware of, but for cap hits and just general information I would like some kind of credible source
[/quote]awh right so the fact that nfls official cap number at that time matched his means he is wrong?

look the fact is, bonuses are split over the length of the contract for cap purposes, believe what you want

[arnie_uk]

[url="https://twitter.com/#!/RavensInsider/statuses/117228588494880768"]https://twitter.com/#!/RavensInsider/statuses/117228588494880768[/url]

theres aaron wilson, ravens insider, $10.4 million, once again the BONUS IS SPLIT OVER THE YEARS OF THE CONTRACT

[truthistold2u]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1333727325' post='1044166']
awh right so the fact that nfls official cap number at that time matched his means he is wrong?

look the fact is, bonuses are split over the length of the contract for cap purposes, believe what you want
[/quote]

Overall cap number estimation doesn't mean the breakdown is accurate

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='truthistold2u' timestamp='1333729684' post='1044204']
Overall cap number estimation doesn't mean the breakdown is accurate
[/quote]its not estimation, its reported fact put into a spreadsheet

[arnie_uk]

nice off you too lgnore my aaron wilson post

[gabefergy]

Sporttrac has.it wrong. Rotoworld shows Ngata's contract being a 25M signing bonus not a 10M roster bonus in 2012. Why would the Ravens make Ngata's cap figure so huge for this year when they knew they would be tight against the cap? 10.4 is the right number, I have no clue where this 17M nonsense comes from.

[arnie_uk]

he got a 25mil sign bonus and a 10mil bonus this year, signing bonus split over 5, option bonus over 4 (only 4 years left)

same as webb, 10 mil bonus over 5 yrs (bonuses can only be split over a max of 5) while next year he gets another 5 mil bonus split over the remaining 5 years

[redrum52]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1333730180' post='1044212']
Sporttrac has.it wrong. Rotoworld shows Ngata's contract being a 25M signing bonus not a 10M roster bonus in 2012. Why would the Ravens make Ngata's cap figure so huge for this year when they knew they would be tight against the cap? 10.4 is the right number, I have no clue where this 17M nonsense comes from.
[/quote]

I feel it was smart what they did it. They could have been under he impression that Ray might have retired but they obviously had a plan and the bulk of his cap hit will be last year and this year, it should drop substantially in 2013. That sets up for us to keep Flacco that year and maybe work out a real contract with Rice if nothing is figured out by the season. It makes more sense to front load contracts when your front office manages the cap as well as our guys do.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1333730835' post='1044226']
I feel it was smart what they did it. They could have been under he impression that Ray might have retired but they obviously had a plan and the bulk of his cap hit will be last year and this year, it should drop substantially in 2013. That sets up for us to keep Flacco that year and maybe work out a real contract with Rice if nothing is figured out by the season. It makes more sense to front load contracts when your front office manages the cap as well as our guys do.
[/quote]his cap hit next year is 11.5, 4m salary, 5 of the signing bonus, 2.5 of the bonus this year, then its 16 mil each of the final 2 years, 8.5 mil salary, 5 of the signing bonus and 2.5 of the bonus this year

[gabefergy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1333731164' post='1044232']
his cap hit next year is 11.5, 4m salary, 5 of the signing bonus, 2.5 of the bonus this year, then its 16 mil each of the final 2 years, 8.5 mil salary, 5 of the signing bonus and 2.5 of the bonus this year
[/quote]
This. His contract was frontloaded in the sense he gets a lot guaranteed money up front, but most of the salary and cap hit is in the final 3 years.

[gregreid5]

The biggest cap savings will be when boldin's 8 million comes off the books next year. I think the ravens end up letting him go. We could also see Ed and ray leave. I am sure we will draft well again and keep the young core of this team together.

Boldin being in the last year of his contract is my main reasoning for wanting a wr in round 1 I'd the right guy falls. We need a number 1 or at least a possession guy to go with Torrey

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='gregreid5' timestamp='1333815171' post='1044831']
The biggest cap savings will be when boldin's 8 million comes off the books next year. I think the ravens end up letting him go. We could also see Ed and ray leave. I am sure we will draft well again and keep the young core of this team together.

Boldin being in the last year of his contract is my main reasoning for wanting a wr in round 1 I'd the right guy falls. We need a number 1 or at least a possession guy to go with Torrey
[/quote]

Tandon Doss is a possession guy, but agreed I want #1 receiver.

[Moondrako5]

restructuring a contract just pushes the problem back thats what people fail to realize. The steelers issues with it will just be amplified the more they push it back because we have a much better GM, IN OZZIE WE TRUST

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1333595493' post='1042662']
His the only one that has a large enough contract who isnt near end of their career( Ed Reed/ Ray Lewis).

And from what I heard the salary cap will significantly increase by two years. (over around 140million dollars as oppose to 120.6m this season). If we were to backload his contract, it might not be as bad of a idea as you think.

I only say this, bc we need to secure our talents now before they are gone (Webb, Rice, Flacco)
[/quote]
[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1333643070' post='1043021']
The cap is going to have a huge jump in 2014 because the next TV deal goes into effect in 2013 so the revenue is going to be way higher, but next year it will probably only go up a small amount.
[/quote]
[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1333645316' post='1043102']
Sorry, but I dont really believe that. The TV contract in 2013 is a huge increase in revenue. Everything I have read perviously has stated that there will be a significant bump in the cap due to the massive revenue increases and no reference to this "borrowing against future caps"
[/quote]
[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1333645558' post='1043113']
Exactly this. From what I understand, the cap will be directly [i]proportional[/i] to the amount of revenue gained.
[/quote]daniel kaplan ‏@dkaplanSBJ
IN SBJ, NFL tells teams to project flat salary caps thru 2015: 2013 ($121 mln); 2014 (122 mln) 2015 (125 mln), and then in 2016 $130 mln.

daniel kaplan ‏@dkaplanSBJ
Benefits will rise sharply though, but media deals will not spike the cap, not even a bit. Offsets from artificially higher caps in 11-13...

daniel kaplan ‏@dkaplanSBJ
...and staggering of media deals leads to almost no cap increase projection in 1st year of mega new TV deals

daniel kaplan ‏@dkaplanSBJ
If NFL projections correct, won't be until the 6th yr of new 10-yr CBA that cap exceeds level in last yr (2009) of capped year in old deal


Didnt want to go starting a new topic....

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1340041831' post='1091010']
daniel kaplan ‏@dkaplanSBJ
IN SBJ, NFL tells teams to project flat salary caps thru 2015: 2013 ($121 mln); 2014 (122 mln) 2015 (125 mln), and then in 2016 $130 mln.

daniel kaplan ‏@dkaplanSBJ
Benefits will rise sharply though, but media deals will not spike the cap, not even a bit. Offsets from artificially higher caps in 11-13...

daniel kaplan ‏@dkaplanSBJ
...and staggering of media deals leads to almost no cap increase projection in 1st year of mega new TV deals

daniel kaplan ‏@dkaplanSBJ
If NFL projections correct, won't be until the 6th yr of new 10-yr CBA that cap exceeds level in last yr (2009) of capped year in old deal


Didnt want to go starting a new topic....
[/quote]
thx man!

[black blood purple passion]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1333590918' post='1042589']
I blame our cap situation on Lee Evans. I think if we had won the sb Ray and Ed both might have retired saving us millions in cap space. Into what you said, can't restructure right after a new contract. Also, the good thing about Halotis contract is most of it will be paid up by the end of the new season so though I'm not sure, his cap hit for 2013 shouldn't be that bad freeing up much needed space. Restructuring is a bad idea especially if the person might potentially have a huge drop off(don't see that with Ngata), but it can burn you in the end. Maybe resigning Ed to a 2-3 year deal could free up some space though.
[/quote]

if ray and ed both retired that would be two large black holes (not just normal holes) on our defence. I'd love to see them have that ring, but I also enjoy them sticking around another year, to give us time to replace them.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1333727325' post='1044166']
awh right so the fact that nfls official cap number at that time matched his means he is wrong?

look the fact is, bonuses are split over the length of the contract for cap purposes, believe what you want
[/quote]

[quote name='truthistold2u' timestamp='1333729684' post='1044204']
Overall cap number estimation doesn't mean the breakdown is accurate
[/quote]

LOL.......yes, it was just sheer dumb luck and coincidence that those numbers were exact.

Not to mention that the Ngata number was exactly (and confirmed by Aaron Wilson), despite your protestations to the contrary!