A Coming To Terms

[ratedr]

I agree honestly. I truly believe last year was our year to win the SB. No Peyton? Steelers out before our first game? How much easier could it have gotten?

[Ravensfan23]

Man watching Kindle in the preseason last year, he just looked so much bigger and faster then everyone else. He looked like an enforcer. Man his potential is so massive and he showed flashes of it in the preseason.

I viewed Kindle as a wide eyed rookie just happy to even be on the team last year. After overcoming what he did, making the team was just the first step.

Now Kindle has to approach this season like a professional and work harder then ever. I believe I read reports that Kindle and Pees really hit it off last season, so that should help him greatly.

If Kindle can put that size/speed combo together with a few pass rush moves look out. The Ravens allowed JJ to walk for a reason and I think Kindle had a lot to do with it.

[Dnyce215]

everyone chill I think Oz got a plan. I predict trade into the top 15 to get michael floyd.

[GrimCoconut]

I don't think the window is closed or even slightly shut. I am excited more for this Ravens team this year than I have been in years.

We have a QB who got a pretty good QB coach in Caldwell who is sure to develop Joe into an even better QB. I can't wait to see Joe's progression. I think he has a big year in a good way, which is why I want us to sign this man now.

We have a Pro Bowl RB with a Pro Bowl FB, what else do you want there? Behind the RB we have Allen & Berry, two guys I loved last year and now this year I think have enough time watching & will get more time doing. I can't wait to see who breaks out between those two guys.

We have two TEs who will benefit greatly from a full off-season with OTAs & training camp. Both of whom I am certain will be much improved come the season.

We have a WR corp that is probably one of the best we've had in years. We have Boldin who is getting older, but we have Torrey Smith who showed great things last year with an accelerated training camp without OTAs who got the playbook rather late & still picked up what he needed (& also improved on areas of weakness for him). We have Tandon Doss & LaQuan Williams, guys who both looked pretty good last year who I think will have larger roles this year.

We have an offensive line that is getting younger but still has some old pieces in place, namely McKinnie (who put the Twinkie box down so far), Oher (who hopefully takes a step forward this year), Yanda (who always looks good), & Birk (who hopefully had enough time to rest those old bones). Behind them we have unproven talent such as Reid (RT, G, where does he fit?), Harewood (injuries or "injuries"), & Boren (who looks more than boring & will hopefully make an impact in some way this year). I love the talent we have! Of course we need more, but I like some of these guys. I want to see what they have.

Then on defense we have reason to be hopeful! We still have Ray Lewis, the man in the middle. Yeah, he's lost a step physically but mentally he is sharper than ever. We don't have much behind him inside, but some of those guys looked really good. McClellin, Williams, Bynes--all showed some promise. I don't like Ellerbe, but he showed some promise before, too. On the outside you have Suggs (should get even better), Kruger (want to see him become a nightmare for other teams), & Kindle (two years removed from head injury should be good for him!), & never forget McAdoo (looked pretty good in the limited action we saw from him).

On the defensive line Cody gets another year added to his resume & should improve even more than last year since he gets to spend time with trainers during OTAs. We lost Redding, but behind him we have Arthur Jones & McPhee, both of whom looked really good throughout the year. And we can never forget about our dominant defensive end Haloti Ngata.

Then in the secondary we have amazing depth & a future Hall of Fame safety in Ed Reed. We have a killer SS who complements Ed Reed with Bernard Pollard. We have Lardarius Webb who is looking hotter than he did before the ACL injury, and then a new & upcoming Jimmy Smith who showed us why we drafted him in that AFCCG. Sure, Jimmy came along slow but that guy looks like he will be the next Asomugha. We have Chykie Brown & Danny Gorrer, both of whom we've seen little from but showed a lot of talent throughout the season & preseason. Then there's Cary Williams, who really came on last year & showed a lot of skill, replacing Chris Carr as a starter.

Yeah, Billy Cundiff needs some work, but Sam Koch looks good! Sam looked tired last year, but hopefully he plays better this year. Our special teams needs to improve, but we lost a lot of guys on teams last year. While we've lost some key 'teamers this year, I don't think our teams will be all that bad--not as bad as last year.

Overall, I can't wait to see our team come September. We will be dominant. I think our schedule is rather decent. I wouldn't call it hard nor easy. I feel like we have a very good shot at the AFC North title & even another bye week. Peyton Manning coming to Baltimore? All I gotta say is "Can't wait".

[The Raven]

I have my own coming of terms. I'm coming to terms with the fact that half of our fanbase is borderline delusional, or at least it seems that way.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1332437648' post='1031112']
That's not necessarily true. Players grow and develop. Think of the difference between Webb year 2 and 3. Now if that happens with Dickson, Pitta, Cody and Jones than the team will be better. Besides I think Kruger starting at OLB might actually be a boon.
[/quote]

I understand that players develop, however, players also regress, and none of you are taking that into account. Birk, Mckinnie, Ray, and Reed are all guys who are on the decline, so any progression is almost completely negated by the fact that some of our best players and leaders are getting worse.

I do think the defense will be in better shape than the offense, but you also have to take into account that a new coordinator and how the players react to his system.

I was never so much concerned with losing Jarrett or Redding, I think we can replace those guys; however its a depth issue for me, who is going to replace Reed if he goes down? Or anyone of our linebackers, last year Kruger, Zibby, and Nakamura were so crucial for depth and as a safety policy. We will not have that luxury this coming season, and that is where the majority of my concern lies on the defensive end.

Offensively Birk struggled in run blocking, mediocore pass rushers such as maybin tooled on Mckinnie and we are not going to get anyone as good as Grubbs.

However, let me reiterate I still think this team is going to be very good and im very exicted to see how players progress, but I stand by my original belief that this years team will not be as good as last years.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1332456730' post='1031500']
I have my own coming of terms. I'm coming to terms with the fact that half of our fanbase is borderline delusional, or at least it seems that way.
[/quote]

Please explain to me how i am delusional, because if you can't recignize the fact that last seasons team was a great mix of youth, vetern leadership, and depth. And, that we lost some big time contributors, that we cannot financially replace then you are the delusional one.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1332454064' post='1031470']
Man watching Kindle in the preseason last year, he just looked so much bigger and faster then everyone else. He looked like an enforcer. Man his potential is so massive and he showed flashes of it in the preseason.

I viewed Kindle as a wide eyed rookie just happy to even be on the team last year. After overcoming what he did, making the team was just the first step.

Now Kindle has to approach this season like a professional and work harder then ever. I believe I read reports that Kindle and Pees really hit it off last season, so that should help him greatly.

If Kindle can put that size/speed combo together with a few pass rush moves look out. The Ravens allowed JJ to walk for a reason and I think Kindle had a lot to do with it.
[/quote]

I have no clue what people see in Kindle, I loved when we drafted him and I was really excited for him but he has done absoulutely nothing to show me he will amount to anything in this league, I watched him in the preseason no basiclly nothing agaisnt third string O-lineman, and there was a reason he basiclly didn't see the field at all last season. Ive moved on from Kindle.

[RavensWin09]

[quote name='Dnyce215' timestamp='1332454162' post='1031472']
everyone chill I think Oz got a plan. I predict trade into the top 15 to get michael floyd.
[/quote]
LOL. way to switch the mood of this thread with your very optimistic post. just kidding. i'd love that too. go TEAM OZ!

[The Raven]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1332466513' post='1031737']

Please explain to me how i am delusional, because if you can't recignize the fact that last seasons team was a great mix of youth, vetern leadership, and depth. And, that we lost some [b]big time contributors, [/b]that we cannot financially replace then you are the delusional one.
[/quote]

Hah! JJ? Redding? Zibby? Ruki? [u]Big time [/u]contributors?

Grubbs is the only big time contributor we lost, and guards can be replaced.

[BmoreInBmore]

This is was not meant to be a negative topic to bash Ozzie, or the current roster; I have high expectations for the coming season and firmly believe we will make the playoffs.

However, for me last season's team was so deep and so talented and it kinda sucks we couldn't get it done during a year where the AFC was pretty weak going into the playoffs.

[The Raven]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1332466911' post='1031743']
This is was not meant to be a negative topic to bash Ozzie, or the current roster; I have high expectations for the coming season and firmly believe we will make the playoffs.

However, for me last season's team was so deep and so talented and it kinda sucks we couldn't get it done during a year where the [b]AFC was pretty weak going into the playoffs.[/b]
[/quote]

Yeah, the AFC was weak, but we lost to a team that wasn't too weak at all.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1332466869' post='1031742']

Hah! JJ? Redding? Zibby? Ruki? [u]Big time [/u]contributors?

Grubbs is the only big time contributor we lost, and guards can be replaced.
[/quote]

Redding was a big piece on the DL and JJ was not great but there is a reason he started every game for us the fact that your undervaluing Redding and JJ and the depth and special teams contributions that players like Zibby, and Nakumura provided us clearly displays your lack of clarity when it comes understanding that a team is more than just its starters.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1332467029' post='1031745']

Yeah, the AFC was weak, but we lost to a team that wasn't too weak at all.
[/quote]

Yeah they just had the statisticlly worst defense in the league, not weak at all. We should have had our way with them on offense.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1332467029' post='1031745']

Yeah, the AFC was weak, but we lost to a team that wasn't too weak at all.
[/quote]
If you're talking about New England, sure the offensive unit is no slouch..IDK about that defense though... If there is one "all around" team in the AFC who has very minor weaknesses it would be Houston. I also see Cincy coming around...

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1332467112' post='1031747']

Redding was a big piece on the DL and JJ was not great but there is a reason he started every game for us the fact that your undervaluing Redding and JJ and the depth and special teams contributions that players like Zibby, and Nakumura provided us clearly displays your lack of clarity when it comes understanding that a team is more than just its starters.
[/quote]
I never understand how people overlook the worth of Jarrett Johnson. Redding was a huge contributor on our D-line. And Zbi was a more than admirable backup, as well was Haruki in his versatility. We lost some valuable players.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1332467362' post='1031750']
I never understand how people overlook the worth of Jarrett Johnson. Redding was a huge contributor on our D-line. And Zbi was a more than admirable backup, as well was Haruki in his versatility. We lost some valuable players.
[/quote]

These were all players that knew the team, knew the playbook, the coaches, and understood how we play; and more importantly their role. Losing them is a big hit, especially with the injury liability of Reed god forbid he goes down because we have no one to back him up.

[berad]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1332467362' post='1031750']
I never understand how people overlook the worth of Jarrett Johnson. Redding was a huge contributor on our D-line. And Zbi was a more than admirable backup, as well was Haruki in his versatility. We lost some valuable players.
[/quote]
[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1332467566' post='1031754']
These were all players that knew the team, knew the playbook, the coaches, and understood how we play; and more importantly their role. Losing them is a big hit, especially with the injury liability of Reed god forbid he goes down because we have no one to back him up.
[/quote]

We lost more, better players last year and were none the worse for it...

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1332467157' post='1031748']

Yeah they just had the[b] statisticlly worst defense in the league[/b], not weak at all. We should have had our way with them on offense.
[/quote]

Wrong. They had the worst defense in the league in YPG given up, which is a useless stat. They were 15th in scoring D, giving up 21 PPG. Tampa Bay was the worst scoring defense in the league, giving up 31 PPG. Same thing with New Orleans, 23rd in YPG but 13th in PPG. I don't know about you, but I think how many points a team actually gives up is more important than cheap yards.

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1332468428' post='1031762']

We lost more, better players last year and were none the worse for it...
[/quote]
Yeah but we lost people past their prime and had guys behind them to replace them. Tell me who replaces grubbs, birk(old just old), and oher becoming one of the worse RTs in fb with BM still being overweight?

All the "well we will be fine fans" STILL have no reply for this comment. Because in the back of their minds(in their football minds not their fan minds)
its different. I agree for as delusional as people can be, it's just different this year BECAUSE the schedule is so brutal and the line is a year older.

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1332468530' post='1031764']

Wrong. They had the worst defense in the league in YPG given up, which is a useless stat. They were 15th in scoring D, giving up 21 PPG. Tampa Bay was the worst scoring defense in the league, giving up 31 PPG. Same thing with New Orleans, 23rd in YPG but 13th in PPG. I don't know about you, but I think how many points a team actually gives up is more important than cheap yards.
[/quote]
Well our offense made them look like a top 5 defense....just saying

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1332468938' post='1031770']
Well our offense made them look like a top 5 defense....just saying
[/quote]

Not really. The top 5 defenses gave up an average of 300 total yards a game and 16 points a game in the regular season. We put up 20 points, which should have been 27, and almost 400 total yards of offense, including 300 through the air. Ray Rice was once again completely and totally shut down, and the passing offense went to work. If Lee Evans catches that ball, it's 27 points. If Cundiff makes a chip-shot, it's 23 points. I don't know where this idea comes from that if we don't score 30+ points on every team we face the offense failed that game. That's also taking into consideration that Vince Wilfork was basically having his way with Birk and the guards the entire game. Just like that Atlanta game last year - half the game Joe was getting beat like a drum, then Cam finally started calling rollouts, Joe actually has time in the pocket, and low and behold the offense starts moving the ball down the field. Almost every game we failed to score in, you can look directly at the offensive line and see where they struggled badly. Fixing that will go a long way to improving the offense.

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1332469385' post='1031779']

Not really. Ray Rice was once again completely and totally shut down, and the passing offense went to work. If Lee Evans catches that ball, it's 28 points. That's also taking into consideration that Vince Wilfork was basically having his way with Birk and the guards the entire game. Almost every game we failed to score in, you can look directly at the offensive line and see where they struggled badly. Fixing that will go a long way to improving the offense.
[/quote]
And I go back to my previous statement above. The Oline is WORSE this year going into this season lol. How do you get better by subtraction on your Oline. It isnt LB or Wr. I don't understand how people can with a straight face say we will be fine with the Oline we have now.

[berad]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1332468862' post='1031768']
Yeah but we lost people past their prime and had guys behind them to replace them. Tell me who replaces grubbs, birk(old just old), and oher becoming one of the worse RTs in fb with BM still being overweight?

All the "well we will be fine fans" STILL have no reply for this comment. Because in the back of their minds(in their football minds not their fan minds)
its different. I agree for as delusional as people can be, it's just different this year BECAUSE the schedule is so brutal and the line is a year older.
[/quote]

Grubbs is the biggest loss by far, I'm not going to pretend like it's not. Maybe the biggest loss the Ravens have ever suffered in FA - a promising, young player who was already near the top in his position. His replacement will come via the draft, a quick-riser already on our roster, or a stop-gap veteran that gets released by another team.

Besides, the Ravens have let good players go before. Maybe he'll stink it up somewhere else like countless other ex-Ravens?

And, from reports, BM is in decent shape; the Ravens called him in for a meeting to check on him. If he was ballooning up, they probably wouldn't have paid him a $500K bonus.

Other than that, though, it's really not that bad. Redding and Johnson were, as you say, "past their prime and ha[ve] guys behind them to replace them" - players like Art Jones/McPhee, and Kruger are easy plug-ins along with Kindle, McAdoo, McClellan as rotational/project players. Two back-up safeties, while reliable, can be replaced.

And I don't care what a schedule looks like in March; good or bad, it'll be different around August - the NFL is ever-changing.

[scrock]

[quote]Yeah they just had the statisticlly worst defense in the league, not weak at all. We should have had our way with them on offense. [/quote]

Well Joe did his part..maybe if Ray Rice could have a big game...or the WRs could make the CATCH

Joe made the throws 2 years in a row to win the game and both years he has had it dropped/stripped on him

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1332469683' post='1031780']
And I go back to my previous statement above. The Oline is WORSE this year going into this season lol. How do you get better by subtraction on your Oline. It isnt LB or Wr. I don't understand how people can with a straight face say we will be fine with the Oline we have now.
[/quote]

And I go back to another point. It is March 22nd. The season starts in September last time I checked. There's still the draft, and there are always players who are cut. That's how we added McKinnie last year - worked out pretty well, didn't it? Is it so hard to believe that the front office will find a way to bring in guys and FIX the offensive line between now and the start of the season? Ozzie said priority number 1 was fixing the offensive line. Last year it was fixing the running game, and Ray Rice had statistically his best season ever. The front office has always been great at identifying our biggest needs (except QB for a decade) and fixing them.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1332467566' post='1031754']

These were all players that knew the team, knew the playbook, the coaches, and understood how we play; and more importantly their role. Losing them is a big hit, especially with the injury liability of Reed god forbid he goes down because we have no one to back him up.[/quote]

Yea we lost so valuable players, but everyone of them can be replaced. I personally wished we could have keep all of them, but I'm not gonna panic over losing these guys. If we lost Ngata last year, their would be reason for concern, if we lost Rice or Flacco, yea. But Zibby and Ruki? Not at all.

You hate to see JJ go, but you felt the same way about Heap, Mason and Gregg last year. Despite losing those 3 key contributions, you still thought this was one of the deepest and talented teams.

Yea we don't have a backup for Reed right now, but that doesn't mean we won't soon. We don't have to play a game tomorrow. I know this isn't the case, but you speak as if the Ravens aren't smart enough to know that Ed is injury prone.

Both Zibby and Ruki left for more playing time, so how do purpose we keep them, neither guy is good enough to take snaps from Reed or Pollard.

As I said before, when you are a good team you lose good players and some of those players are still young enough to maybe develop into great players, but we can't keep them all.

Final rosters don't have to be turned in until one week before the first game. Its kind of pointless to size up the roster right now because its not complete.

Allow Ozzie and company to work the process, you don't become the only team to win at least 1 playoff game in the last 4 years because you don't know how to build and maintain a roster.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1332468428' post='1031762']

We lost more, better players last year and were none the worse for it...
[/quote]
Although we lost a lot of good players years prior, i still dont believe they made an impact as much as the ones we have lost this past season. Also the ones that were lost before had acceptable back ups.
Mason and Heap came up huge for years, they wouldn't have been in the future.
McGahee wanted a starting role, and it wouldn't have came while in Baltimore.
I dont see how any of them were "better", besides the fact that they were more loved by the fans..

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1332468530' post='1031764']

Wrong. They had the worst defense in the league in YPG given up, which is a useless stat. They were 15th in scoring D, giving up 21 PPG. Tampa Bay was the worst scoring defense in the league, giving up 31 PPG. Same thing with New Orleans, 23rd in YPG but 13th in PPG. I don't know about you, but I think how many points a team actually gives up is more important than cheap yards.
[/quote]

Worst in yards allowed, and fifteen in points allowed, your proving how terrible they are.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1332470442' post='1031788']
Yea we lost so valuable players, but everyone of them can be replaced. I personally wished we could have keep all of them, but I'm not gonna panic over losing these guys. If we lost Ngata last year, their would be reason for concern, if we lost Rice or Flacco, yea. But Zibby and Ruki? Not at all.

You hate to see JJ go, but you felt the same way about Heap, Mason and Gregg last year. Despite losing those 3 key contributions, you still thought this was one of the deepest and talented teams.

Yea we don't have a backup for Reed right now, but that doesn't mean we won't soon. We don't have to play a game tomorrow. I know this isn't the case, but you speak as if the Ravens aren't smart enough to know that Ed is injury prone.

Both Zibby and Ruki left for more playing time, so how do purpose we keep them, neither guy is good enough to take snaps from Reed or Pollard.

As I said before, when you are a good team you lose good players and some of those players are still young enough to maybe develop into great players, but we can't keep them all.

Final rosters don't have to be turned in until one week before the first game. Its kind of pointless to size up the roster right now because its not complete.

Allow Ozzie and company to work the process, you don't become the only team to win at least 1 playoff game in the last 4 years because you don't know how to build and maintain a roster.
[/quote]

I never said I was panicing, all I said is that I don't believe that this years team will be as good as last years, in my opinion last years team was the second best unit this franchise has ever had.