Saints' Bounty Investigation, Updated: Suspensions Overturned Then Re-Issued

[JO_75]

Does this make the Saints defense even better now, getting back these players? I'm not sure if Scott Fujita will have a impact in Cleveland or not but the Redskins-Saints game got more interesting.

[redlobster]

As stated in some of the news articles this means very little in the grand scheme of things because after the panel ruled, the case went back to Goodell. He can still suspend them


[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/07/bounty-suspensions-will-now-go-back-to-the-commissioner/"]http://profootballta...e-commissioner/[/url]


[quote]Inspection of the four-page summary decision signed by Richard J. Howell on behalf of a unanimous three-person panel reveals that the[b] case will now go back to Goodell[/b]. The panel decided that, based on the various overlapping jurisdictions of Goodell and the “System Arbitrator” and others under the labor deal, it’s unclear that the suspensions imposed by Goodell fall within his jurisdiction, and not the jurisdiction of the “System Arbitrator.”

(Confused yet? So are we.)

Actually, it’s not that complicated. The CBA gives different people different responsibility for sorting out different types of disputes. Here, the arbitration panel decided it’s not entirely clear whether Goodell imposed the suspensions under his authority to prevent conduct detrimental to the game or whether he infringed on the exclusive power of the “System Arbitrator” to penalize violations of the salary cap, arising from the fact that money potentially changed hands in connection with the pay-for-performance/bounty program.

“While we agree, then, that the Commissioner had jurisdiction to discipline the Players in this case, we are uncertain that the discipline handed down was attributable, in any part, to that aspect of the Program which lies within the exclusive jurisdiction of the System Arbitrator,” Howell writes. “While we could speculate, it is not clear from the record before us whether had the distinction we draw in mind at the time he disciplined the players.”[/quote]

[arnie_uk]

Yea they didn't over rule anything, they just gave their opinion really, still lays with Rodger as too what happens next

[arnie_uk]

the arbitrator made a purely jurisdictional ruling, i.e. the Commissioner has no authority to enforce Article 14 (salary cap violations); that is the arbitrator's territory. However, the Commissioner still has jurisdiction under Article 46 (conduct detrimental). The arbitrator made [b]no ruling whatsoever on whether the Commissioner had sufficient evidence under Article 46[/b].

In fact, the ruling stated that:

1) The conduct in question may be punishable under both Articles 14 and 46
2) The NFLPA agrees with #1
3) The arbitrator admits to having no idea whether the severity of the punishment was in any way related to the alleged Article 14 violations
4) The Commissioner can exercise his exclusive jurisdiction to punish the players under Article 46, and the arbitrator could further punish them under Article 14.

Once again, Vilma can celebrate, but I don't see where he's won much of anything yet. The arbitrator has clearly affirmed the Commissioner's power to punish him under Article 46.

Disclaimer: copied from someone who seemed to know what they were talking about

[K-Dog]

[quote name='YYZ66' timestamp='1347051150' post='1141828']


They all would have been banned permanently from the NFL.
[/quote]

With possible criminal charges right ?

[YYZ66]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1347057879' post='1141925']
With possible criminal charges right ?
[/quote]

No doubt. Probably would have been exiled to Siberia.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1337366049' post='1079613']
we dont need to know...
[/quote]

Yes we do. We can't assume, nor can those players sit there and take for granted that Goodell has all of his facts straight. If he has evidence and actually informs people of what specifically he gave those suspensions for, then I'd be more on his side.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1337646966' post='1080645']
Unnamed Saints players have come out and said that they feel they are being "railroaded."

[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/21/report-saints-players-believe-theyre-being-railroaded/"]http://profootballta...ing-railroaded/[/url]

Cry, Cry, Cry. Would you like some cheese with your wine? Sorry but Gregg Williams is loud and clear in the audio and just take your damn suspensions and move on. The Saints are acting like a bunch of babies right now. I hope Drew Brees leaves New Orleans so he doesn't have to be included in this mess and hopefully the Super Bowl Host Curse hits them hard!
[/quote]

Yeah, but without an investigation, we can't just sit there and assume that there were bounties on all of those references.

Honestly, why is everyone so quick to judge???

[Alexir]

Glad they got off, thought it was suspicious that Goodell wouldn't release evidence to Vilma when Vilma called him out and then took him to court.

[JO_75]

My goodness... The NFL has re-issued the bounty punishments and has re-suspended Jonathon Vilma, Browns LB Scott Fujita and Will Smith. This now means Jonathon Vilma will be suspended for the entire season, Fujita three games, and Smith four games.

[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/09/nfl-re-issues-bounty-discipline/"]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/09/nfl-re-issues-bounty-discipline/[/url]

Since the players can appeal this, I have a feeling this will never end.

[display name]

[url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000082392/article/paul-tagliabue-set-to-hear-player-appeals-in-bounty-case"]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000082392/article/paul-tagliabue-set-to-hear-player-appeals-in-bounty-case[/url]
And it continues. Even after the museums quote, I'll take Tagliabue over Goodell.

[JO_75]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1350674779' post='1195195']
[url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000082392/article/paul-tagliabue-set-to-hear-player-appeals-in-bounty-case"]http://www.nfl.com/n...-in-bounty-case[/url]
And it continues. Even after the museums quote, I'll take Tagliabue over Goodell.
[/quote]

The funny thing, Vilma's lawyer now is concerned about Tagliabue being the arbitrator. With the way Vilma is complaining, something tells me he is guilty.

[quote][color=#000000][font=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif][size=4]“Having said that, we now need to learn whether Commissioner Tagliabue plans to provide to us the fundamental rights that Commissioner Goodell ignored, including the right to examine the accusers and to see the evidence, and also we need to consider that Commissioner Tagliabue is counsel to the law firm representing Commissioner Goodell in Jonathan’s defamation lawsuit, as well as representing the NFL in Jonathan’s challenge to the entire process in this matter.”[/size][/font][/color][/quote]

[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/20/vilmas-lawyer-has-concerns-about-tagliabue-as-arbitrator/"]http://profootballta...-as-arbitrator/[/url]

[display name]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1350749007' post='1195537']
The funny thing, Vilma's lawyer now is concerned about Tagliabue being the arbitrator. With the way Vilma is complaining, something tells me he is guilty.



[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/20/vilmas-lawyer-has-concerns-about-tagliabue-as-arbitrator/"]http://profootballta...-as-arbitrator/[/url]
[/quote]
Yeah, he's sure guilty.

[Passepartout]

It seems that the Saints like Tagliabue than Goodell over this bounty thing!

[JO_75]

[quote name='Passepartout' timestamp='1350782325' post='1195933']
It seems that the Saints like Tagliabue than Goodell over this bounty thing!
[/quote]

Well, he won't last long if the NFLPA gets their way. They believe that because Tagliabue works for the law firm that represents the NFL in the Bounty Cases that he may not be a fair and impartial arbitrator.

[quote][color=#000000][font=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif][size=4]According to Daniel Kaplan of [/size][/font][/color][i]SportsBusiness Journal[/i][color=#000000][font=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif][size=4], the NFLPA will file a motion to recuse Tagliabue on Wednesday, the court-mandated deadline for doing so.[/size][/font][/color][/quote]

[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/23/report-nflpa-will-file-tagliabue-recusal-motion-on-wednesday/"]http://profootballta...n-on-wednesday/[/url]

So after Vilma got his way after pouting like a child with Goodell recuse himself, the NFLPA is now asking for Tagliabue to recuse himself now?

I seriously do not understand this at all.

[Shaggy]

The NFLPA are the knuckle heads that agreed to make Goodell judge/jury/executioner in the first place. If they didn't like it, they should have negotiated that in the CBA 2 years ago. They didn't do that, because they knew if they tried to negotiate it they would have had to give ground on other issues. So, instead, they agreed to it 2 years ago but now are whining about a "neutral arbitrator". They can't have it both ways.