Saints' Bounty Investigation, Updated: Suspensions Overturned Then Re-Issued

[redrum52]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1333645552' post='1043111']
I honestly don't think the NFL needs to do anything more than suspend Williams at this point more than a year. I think they can keep their 1-year suspension or whatever they want to do. The true problem for Williams will be finding a job. I don't think too many teams will even hire him because of this problem & the bad publicity it would bring their clubs.

Regardless of what the NFL does as a league or Goodell's decision on Williams' suspension, I feel his career in coaching is done. I am even talking at the college level. He is most likely finished.
[/quote]

Bet you Fisher will still give him a job if he isn't banned. I think he should still get another shot after. I doubt many others feel the same way.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1333647574' post='1043149']
That's not even a good pre-game speech. It doesn't make you want to lay someone out. It makes you want to think "[b]What the hell is wrong with us?"[/b].
[/quote]
lol...a dude with common sense would have that in mind or probably wonders "Am I playing football or murdering someone?"

[Grapple Raven]

[i][u][i][u][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3V149Nyjag[/media][/u][/i][/u][/i]

This is the full 12 minute audio, sorry if it was posted earlier. Warning: explicit language!

This guy is beyond disgusting! Imho, he has stripped this game of any honor and integrity, he never needs to smell a blade of grass on a football field again at any level.

Sidenote: At the end of this audio you can hear the players say "give it back", so that leads me to believe that Goodell already had this information since that phrase "give it back" was initially used in the original story that broke this scandal.

[berad]

Some of what Williams said wasn't that bad but when he started talking about targeting guys' ACLs, Vernon Davis' ankles, or extracurricular stuff on the pile - that's ridiculous and disgusting. I didn't even know what to make of it, wouldn't have fired me up as a player, it was kind of pathetic. Gregg Williams is done in the NFL and I hope none of the Saints get their suspensions reduced. Can't wait for the players to get their suspensions, too, a lot of garbage removal...

And the Saints had their appeals heard today lol. If a video guy can pick up all that how can the GM and HC pretend like they were oblivious?

[redrum52]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1333666733' post='1043575']
Some of what Williams said wasn't that bad but when he started talking about targeting guys' ACLs, Vernon Davis' ankles, or extracurricular stuff on the pile - that's ridiculous and disgusting. I didn't even know what to make of it, wouldn't have fired me up as a player, it was kind of pathetic. Gregg Williams is done in the NFL and I hope none of the Saints get their suspensions reduced. Can't wait for the players to get their suspensions, too, a lot of garbage removal...

And the Saints had their appeals heard today lol. If a video guy can pick up all that how can the GM and HC pretend like they were oblivious?
[/quote]

I'm sure you know this already but though the hc deals with all the coordinators he doesn't usually sit in on meetings. In Paytons case he would for offense but that's because he has a hands on approach with them. I'm not saying he didnt know because they were told to stop but there might have been a point where he honestly had no idea. As far as the gm I thought they only dealt with personnel signings, draft and helping find staff.

[berad]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1333667238' post='1043586']
I'm sure you know this already but though the hc deals with all the coordinators he doesn't usually sit in on meetings. In Paytons case he would for offense but that's because he has a hands on approach with them. I'm not saying he didnt know because they were told to stop but there might have been a point where he honestly had no idea. As far as the gm I thought they only dealt with personnel signings, draft and helping find staff.
[/quote]

It's the fact they were warned multiple times and it still continued. You'd think after express warnings from the NFL you might want to reign in your staff and make sure the bounties don't ensue [i]while[/i] they're investigating.

[hawkprey]

Listening to the audio you can tell that Gregg was just rehashing statements he'd made before to the team. Things like "affect the head". Clearly that's not the first time he's said that because it would require explaining. Sounded more like the "I know they're taping us" speech at times. I wonder the kinds of things he told the players when he first got there. Probably a lengthy explanation of why killing the head will lead to the body dying.

[BirdWatcher]

I hope he never again gets a coaching job. Working in the NFL is a priviledge and he basically spit on the shield. Let him flip burgers for a living.

[Clutch Ravens]

No way does Williams ever coach in a Goodell-commissioned NFL again. The number of times he instructed players to specifically target areas (particularly the head) was disgusting and he's an embarrassment to the sport.

[Purple Punishment]

I listened to the full audio with the expletives. Wow, just wow. This man has some serious issues that go beyond the game of football. I dont think he will ever coach again...ever. Encouraging them to test out concussions, tearing Crabtrees ACL, Hitting people in the heads while in the piles and then never apologizing for the way they play.

[The Raven]

That audio was disgusting. I can't believe that someone would actually wish any of that on someone.

[BloodRaven]

A lot of it sounds like the usual defensive coach rhetoric/hyperbole but I don't get why he would mention the ACL thing. Forget what you've heard, the truth is that defensive players are always targeting the knees of key players.

[Purple Punishment]

True, I see this alot. Shoulder pads in the shin knee area. I always wonder how players take a lickin there all game and keep on truckin. Look at what happened to Adrian Peterson if the hit is laid in the right spot, it could prove lethal for a players career

[Grapple Raven]

[i]Goodell announced today that the punishments hold from the appeals of the Saints coaching staff, but will allow Saints HC two more weeks before suspension takes effect, and may give the Saints their 2013, second round pick back. [/i]

[i]Player punishment is still up in the air, but it looks like Goodell will have sole control over that issue in regards to NFLPA.[/i]

[i]Goodell puzzles me![/i]

[Purple Punishment]

I heard the guys joke on Sportscenter about getting Sean Payton. Saying since Petrino is out at Arkansas, he should just coach there for a year.

Would he be allowed to do that?

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' timestamp='1334289345' post='1047940']
I heard the guys joke on Sportscenter about getting Sean Payton. Saying since Petrino is out at Arkansas, he should just coach there for a year.

Would he be allowed to do that?
[/quote]
I can't see why not. He can't coach in the NFL, but there aren't any sanctions against the NCAAF. That is, if they let him coach there.

[Purple Punishment]

true but wouldnt his NFL contract prohibit him from that??

[redrum52]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1333796292' post='1044688']
A lot of it sounds like the usual defensive coach rhetoric/hyperbole but I don't get why he would mention the ACL thing. Forget what you've heard, the truth is that defensive players are always targeting the knees of key players.
[/quote]

This. People live in some fantasy world where its just coaches telling you to play hard and whoever tries the best using good techniques will win. No, its a business and a blood sport on defense. Why do you think players will play out seasons sometimes not mentioning specific injuries. Defenders target injured players to see how they will respond.

[JO_75]

More stuff is coming out... GM Micky Loomis had a device that allowed him to listen to Visiting Coaches during the 2002-2004 Seasons.

Per SportsCenter's Twitter:

[quote][color=#333333][font=HelveticaNeue,]BREAKING NEWS - Sources: Device allowed Saints GM Mickey Loomis to listen to visiting coaches during 2002-04 seasons[/font][/color][/quote]

[Grapple Raven]

[url="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Mickey-Loomis-New-Orleans-Saints-deny-eavesdropping-042312"]http://msn.foxsports...dropping-042312[/url]

Boy, the Saints better roll their britches' legs up!!! This story keeps getting deeper and deeper!

It's like the engergizer bunny, it keeps going and going and going...


Before any of this "bounty" scandal stuff started, I just never liked that Loomis guy from the get-go...just never got a good feeling from this guy... call it intuition...he looks shifty, shady and sneaky... and he will still be there minus the suspension. Go figure...

[GrimCoconut]

Vilma suspended the entire season. Hargrove suspended 8 games. Will Smith suspended 4 games. Fujita suspended 3 games.

Goodell came down on Vilma. Damn.

[BirdWatcher]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1335976295' post='1069889']
Goodell came down on Vilma. Damn.
[/quote]

That recording damned Vilma.

[Hjulmann]

Wow! suspending a guy like Vilma... This is hella serious for the Saints

[bpytnjr58]

Oh to be a Saints fan in the year 2012!

[berad]

serves them right. they probably only suspended the guys that had solid evidence against them, too. I wish I could see Brees' tears now

[JO_75]

Wow... Vilma, Hargrove, Smith and Fujita all are planning to appeal and pursue legal action.

[quote][color=#000000][font=Georgia,]The appeals were widely anticipated, but ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported that the players expect to go beyond the usual appeals process within the league office and instead expect to go to federal court.[/font][/color][/quote]

[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/02/vilma-hargrove-smith-fujita-plan-appeal-and-legal-battle/"]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/02/vilma-hargrove-smith-fujita-plan-appeal-and-legal-battle/[/url]

[tigerave]

The Saints have been the media darlings since Katrina,along with coach Payton.I think Payton deserves to be suspended for several years if not permanately.His knowledge of this is appalling.I heard the league even warned them and they continued it. I dont think Goodell is being too tough.Were lucky to have a decent ,ethical coach like John Harbaugh.

[T3hRaven]

I can't believe the league built this process up to suspend four guys. I was expecting at least 10 suspensions. Very underwhelming.

[JO_75]

You know what I find hilarious, all this is coming out the year the Saints host the Super Bowl. Can you say the Super Bowl Host Curse has already begun?

[ThePurpleWall]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1335980631' post='1069955']
Wow... Vilma, Hargrove, Smith and Fujita all are planning to appeal and pursue legal action.



[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/02/vilma-hargrove-smith-fujita-plan-appeal-and-legal-battle/"]http://profootballta...d-legal-battle/[/url]
[/quote]

haha,good luck.