MERGED: Joe Flacco Contract

[raybaby]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' timestamp='1332483142' post='1031897']
Without rices regular season stability you don't win enough games (the past 4 years) to get into the playoffs.
[/quote]

I'm nit picking but Ray Rice was not the starter in 2008 when we started our playoff streak. Yes he made flashes when he touched the ball that year but he was not the main ball carrier so he can't even be argued as a load carrier.

In 2009, we won 7 out of our 9 games with Rice getting less than 20 carries... many games waaay less. It could have been 9 games if not for the missed field goal against the Vikings & drop against the Pats. Rice did have a great year with 4 games running 100 yards or more. In 2010, we won 6 games with Rice getting less than 20 carries & he only had 2 games with a 100 yards or more. That year the run game was nothing spectacular yet we still won 12 games. The run game was declining every season.There was a reason Ozzie got Leach. Point being, people preach Ray Rice needs 25 carries for us to win & that is just baloney. The reason we need to run the ball a respectable amount (in Rice's hands or not) is because the type of offense we run typically runs smoother & is in better rhythm when we do.. specially the O line. Completely abandoning the run was the problem.

Joe generally is not so up & down.. this season it appeared that way & that we needed to rely heavily on the run at times to make up for the inconsistencies. This past season Rice has the right to be considered the load carrier but I think people are taking the perception from this season... specially the games we lost & how Ray Rice didn't get his touches & generalizing that it has always been that way & that is just not the case.

I think what sets Ray Rice apart as a great offensive player is what he contributes as a receiver. He should be greatly involved in our offense. But IMO if he wasn't the receiver that he is, he could be replaced. At this point he is our best weapon. Joe should want to get the ball in his hands because Rice can make big gains from something you think won't be much. He helps move the chains. It shouldn't be looked down upon. Many QBs check down a lot. Look at Brees he checks down a hell of a lot especially now even with the other good weapons because of what Sproles brings. Any QB would be throwing to Rice a lot because he is great at making plays after the catch.That is why Rice is a special player.

Both Joe & Ray are big contributors to our team. Both are responsible for us winning. Both will continue to make us successful. The point of this post (not directed at you lol) was to try to get rid of the perception that Rice has always 'carried the load' specially in the run game (that he needs such & such carries).

[Radinho84]

signing flacco will be very expensive because of those goofy teams that gave their middle of the pack quarterbacks contracts like they were manning in his prime. i don´t get this...smh

[raybaby]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1332486885' post='1031906']
I agree with you 100% about the foolishness of piting Flacco vs Rice.
[/quote]

Honestly this season caused a lot of that. Even within the team you would hear Ray Rice needs the ball. When Ray Rice gets his carries, we win. It bothered me throughout the season because I felt like it was veery off base. This season is not a general mark on how every season has been. Ray Rice doesn't need a select number of carries to win. We just can't completely abandon the run lol

[flynismo]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' timestamp='1332483142' post='1031897']
Whoa there. I'm sold on flacco as well. He's shown brilliance and will achieve it soon BUT that stat line is two games. Can we please compare that same stat line over the span of the regular season? I'm not gonna waste time looking it up, rices would be more impressive.

They both are important. Without rices regular season stability you don't win enough games (the past 4 years) to get into the playoffs. And yes joe looked brilliant at moments this past year especially when he was allowed to spread things out and run uptempo out of the shotgun... And I do believe he will be reliable enough to win enough regular season games to get u regularly to the dance in the future; but let's not gamble the mortgage here and throw rice under the bus.

Gosh dang, we're lucky enough to have two of the best young up-and-coming offensive players in the nfl getting locked up to long term deals and were bickering about either one being garbage??

Move to Philly.


And duly noting the mod note above ^^ flacco deserves somewhere in the $8-11 mill per range if he wants a 5 or 6 year extension. The ravens are in the drivers seat here I think. He can argue what Flynn got and we can say we're not a desperate team that's gonna throw money at you. He argues wins we can say defense. If he says he deserves more than Alex smith we can say once smith got a comparable defense and coach he played one really good year (more consistent than joe overall with less turnovers). Let's not be silly, joe wants this thing locked up just as bad as the ravens. He just lost his pro bowl LG and his center and LT are a year older. Right now behind boldin and smith there isn't a receiver on the team with more than what? 15 catches? Sure if he goes out and plays lights out he's only going to get the contract hes asking for now unless he leaves for a bottom feeder that's willing to overpay. But, on the flip side if he plays poorly (and ray and Ed are a year older and pagano is gone) and if that D takes a step back and the team maybe misses the playoffs at 10-6 then he's gonna get less than our current offer.

I think, unfortunately, this thing takes a while to play out. But ultimately I think joe signs for seething like 5 yr/$52 mill, $30 guaranteed.
[/quote]


Another one who misses the point of what was said. Apparently reading comprehension is a lost art.

[flynismo]

[quote name='raybaby' timestamp='1332491857' post='1031911']

I'm nit picking but Ray Rice was not the starter in 2008 when we started our playoff streak. Yes he made flashes when he touched the ball that year but he was not the main ball carrier so he can't even be argued as a load carrier.

In 2009, we won 7 out of our 9 games with Rice getting less than 20 carries... many games waaay less. It could have been 9 games if not for the missed field goal against the Vikings & drop against the Pats. Rice did have a great year with 4 games running 100 yards or more. In 2010, we won 6 games with Rice getting less than 20 carries & he only had 2 games with a 100 yards or more. That year the run game was nothing spectacular yet we still won 12 games. The run game was declining every season.There was a reason Ozzie got Leach. Point being, people preach Ray Rice needs 25 carries for us to win & that is just baloney. The reason we need to run the ball a respectable amount (in Rice's hands or not) is because the type of offense we run typically runs smoother & is in better rhythm when we do.. specially the O line. Completely abandoning the run was the problem.

Joe generally is not so up & down.. this season it appeared that way & that we needed to rely heavily on the run at times to make up for the inconsistencies. This past season Rice has the right to be considered the load carrier but I think people are taking the perception from this season... specially the games we lost & how Ray Rice didn't get his touches & generalizing that it has always been that way & that is just not the case.

I think what sets Ray Rice apart as a great offensive player is what he contributes as a receiver. He should be greatly involved in our offense. But IMO if he wasn't the receiver that he is, he could be replaced. At this point he is our best weapon. Joe should want to get the ball in his hands because Rice can make big gains from something you think won't be much. He helps move the chains. It shouldn't be looked down upon. Many QBs check down a lot. Look at Brees he checks down a hell of a lot especially now even with the other good weapons because of what Sproles brings. Any QB would be throwing to Rice a lot because he is great at making plays after the catch.That is why Rice is a special player.

Both Joe & Ray are big contributors to our team. Both are responsible for us winning. Both will continue to make us successful. The point of this post (not directed at you lol) was to try to get rid of the perception that Rice has always 'carried the load' specially in the run game (that he needs such & such carries).
[/quote]

I've given up on explaining this a long time ago!

[raybaby]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1332495080' post='1031924']

I've given up on explaining this a long time ago!
[/quote]

Lol well it needs to be said! I wanted to pull my hair out when I kept hearing analyst say Ray Rice needs 'this many' carries for the Ravens to win.

[Forevermore20]

We have other issues to worry bout. ie rice.


http://yourdailydose-ijc.blogspot.com/2012/02/pay-man.html

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Forevermore20' timestamp='1332959020' post='1036653']
We have other issues to worry bout. ie rice.


[url="http://yourdailydose-ijc.blogspot.com/2012/02/pay-man.html"]http://yourdailydose...02/pay-man.html[/url]
[/quote]
If RR wants AP money as reported (we have offered a similar deal to foster) let him play out his tag this year then he can go on the market, simple as that

[redrum52]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1332460733' post='1031576']


Ray Rice also played like garbage the previous playoff game in Houston, while Flacco accounted for both of our TDs. You can go ahead and excuse him for that too.

Where was Rice and his [b]2.4 YPC[/b] in our rematch against PIT, while Flacco was busy throwing the last minute TD?

How about Rice's [b]2.8 YPC[/b] against SFO, while Flacco accounted for the only TD by either team that entire game?

Should I continue, or is Rice's failure in the playoffs and the above mentioned games enough for you and your hero?
[/quote]

You forgot him leaving Joe out to pasture as he let Harrison run right by him in Pitt. On topic, Flacco should wait til next year. Off, if Rice really does want that money let him play out the tag and be rewarded by a team willing to pay him next year. He's good but not AP good. I'll tell you this much, 4th and 1 AP is not being stopped.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='raybaby' timestamp='1332493199' post='1031918']

Honestly this season caused a lot of that. Even within the team you would hear Ray Rice needs the ball.[b] When Ray Rice gets his carries, we win. [/b]It bothered me throughout the season because I felt like it was veery off base. This season is not a general mark on how every season has been. Ray Rice doesn't need a select number of carries to win. We just can't completely abandon the run lol
[/quote]

Well I think it's on target for 2 reasons. 1) Running gives us TOP and generally limits turnovers, and when we win those battles, we usually win the game. 2) I've looked at a lot of film from this season and read PFF's snap report and game analyses enough to know that we generally run a base 2 WR set with a few tight end wrinkles thrown in. Rarely do we vary our looks and go 3+ wide, etc. Even some of the Texans players after that game said something along the lines of "it's easy to figure out their offense, it's not that complicated." Since we don't diversify, we use the running game to set up play-action and disguise things. Flacco is also very good at running play-action, even though he's less than stellar at actually selling play-action. I think in general offensive balance is how we have the most success here - we can't be a team that only throws the ball 50 times a game at the exclusion of the running game i.e. Rice's 8 carries in Jacksonville. If Rice gets around 25-30 carries a game, then I think we CAN throw the ball 50 times a game and do fine with it. And if you look at last year (2010), Flacco's most consistent season, he averaged between 25-35 throws a game, never even hit 40 throws in a single game, and the two games he threw the most in he had 1 TD and 5 picks. Then you look at the rest of the season, his completion percentage and TD-INT ratio went way up, he went through a stretch of 9 out of 10 games with a QB rating of 90 or higher, and he never threw more than 35 times in any of those games. So I think it's all about balancing the run game and pass game and making efficient use of the passing game, like 2010.

[cursona pirate]

For some reason I think Flacco and his agent havent talked to managment and are actually just skateboarding.