MERGED: Joe Flacco Contract

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1332439057' post='1031143']

I love when people take this stance...its funny!
[/quote]he said that after calling flacco captain checkdown.. the irony, he clearly doesn't understand football at all calling him that. I'm sure someone can get the stats but the last fee years he's near the top in deep balls attempted in the league. He 90 percent of the time only checks down after looking the field for ages and sees boldin hasn't got seperation on his go route and smith is double covered.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1332436687' post='1031101']


I love the fact that he says the only 3 championship caliber are a guard, a running back and one receiver who struggles to get open and the QB is the problem.

I'm fairly certain Boldin gets released after next year, he's one of my favorite receivers ever, but he just can't do damage outside the numbers anymore.
[/quote]

As much as I love debating about whether the best QB in franchise history is good enough, I'm gonna go off topic a bit.

I agree with you 100%. Last year Boldin was nothing more then a glorified TE and if he was on the inside was basically ineffective. Don't get me wrong Q is my man all the back to Seminole Pride, but his time is growing short.

That's why this year will be so important for Doss and Williams/ any rookie, but mainly Doss because the Ravens view him as a younger Boldin. Even if he only have about 10 catches on the year, that's fine. He just has to show that when called upon he can deliver. If he bust his butt and lockdown that #3 spot this year, it'll go a long way. Actually if Doss locks the #3 spot out of camp and we can hit on another rookie this year, Boldin could possibly have a Hines Ward type season were he sees his time in Baltimore coming to an end even before the season ends.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1332439622' post='1031162']
As much as I love debating about whether the best QB in franchise history is good enough, I'm gonna go off topic a bit.

I agree with you 100%. Last year Boldin was nothing more then a glorified TE and if he was on the inside was basically ineffective. Don't get me wrong Q is my man all the back to Seminole Pride, but his time is growing short.

That's why this year will be so important for Doss and Williams/ any rookie, but mainly Doss because the Ravens view him as a younger Boldin. Even if he only have about 10 catches on the year, that's fine. He just has to show that when called upon he can deliver. If he bust his butt and lockdown that #3 spot this year, it'll go a long way. Actually if Doss locks the #3 spot out of camp and we can hit on another rookie this year, Boldin could possibly have a Hines Ward type season were he sees his time in Baltimore coming to an end even before the season ends.
[/quote]

I actually like Williams and doss a lot. I like the 3 receivers we have and I still have hope for David Reed, I just want a big receiver who can get down field.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1332439479' post='1031156']he said that after calling flacco captain checkdown.. the irony, he clearly doesn't understand football at all calling him that. I'm sure someone can get the stats but the last fee years he's near the top in deep balls attempted in the league. He 90 percent of the time only checks down after looking the field for ages and sees boldin hasn't got seperation on his go route and smith is double covered.[/quote]

I'm sure I'm not breaking any news here, but over their first 4 years of starting QB, notice I said starting, Flacco and Brady's numbers are nearly identical. Now obviously the Super Bowls set Brady apart, but his teammates had just as much to do with that as him.

Now I'm not saying Flacco is better then Brady, although you can argue that Flacco has played as well if not outplayed him 3 of the last 4 times we've played them. But that's another topic.

My point to this point is, I'm willing to bet that up until Brady got Welker and Moss, he completed just as many passes to RBs,FBs and TEs as Flacco has. However with Brady its called being a great field general and with Flacco its called Caption Checkdown.

So can someone that uses the term "Caption Checkdown" please explain this for me.

To everyone else....forgive me for potentially opening this can of worms.....again.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1332441056' post='1031198']
I'm sure I'm not breaking any news here, but over their first 4 years of starting QB, notice I said starting, Flacco and Brady's numbers are nearly identical. Now obviously the Super Bowls set Brady apart, but his teammates had just as much to do with that as him.

Now I'm not saying Flacco is better then Brady, although you can argue that Flacco has played as well if not outplayed him 3 of the last 4 times we've played them. But that's another topic.

My point to this point is, I'm willing to bet that up until Brady got Welker and Moss, he completed just as many passes to RBs,FBs and TEs as Flacco has. However with Brady its called being a great field general and with Flacco its called Caption Checkdown.

So can someone that uses the term "Caption Checkdown" please explain this for me.

To everyone else....forgive me for potentially opening this can of worms.....again.
[/quote]
I think the term you are looking for is "Captain Checkdown". It's a misinformed view that all Flacco does is look for his first read and if its not open panic and dump the ball off to Rice. What's funny is the greatest single season by a QB was built by over 50% of his completions going to a TE or RB, including 86 completions to Sproles and 50 completions to Thomas.

[raybaby]

Sigh.... like I said earlier naysayer was putting it nicely lol

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1332440148' post='1031176']

I actually like Williams and doss a lot. I like the 3 receivers we have and I still have hope for David Reed, I just want a big receiver who can get down field.[/quote]

I really like those 2 as well. I remember during the Sunday Night game vs the Jets, Collinsworth talked about how many people inside the Castle thought that Laquan Williams was the better of all 3 rookies. Doss showed good potential in the preseason and I see a Pitta like connection possibly forming between he and Flacco. We all saw what Torrey was able to do.

I think the lockout really hurt those 3 Laquan especially, so I can't wait to hear reports of them catching passes from Flacco in the coming months.

As for D. Reed, my hopes for him probably laid on the field at M&T Bank last year. I like him, but he'll have a huge up field battle just to make the team. I like him but he might quickly become the odd man out, especially if we get a impact WR in this draft.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1332441617' post='1031212']
I think the term you are looking for is "Captain Checkdown". It's a misinformed view that all Flacco does is look for his first read and if its not open panic and dump the ball off to Rice. What's funny is the greatest single season by a QB was built by over 50% of his completions going to a TE or RB, including 86 completions to Sproles and 50 completions to Thomas.[/quote]

Yea Captain Checkdown is right, I blame auto spell check for that. I know it comes from a misinformed mindset, I just want a clear answer as to why from the select few that choose to bash or as they say, be "Realist" about Flacco.

I've been asking this same question for the past 3 offseasons now and still haven't found one person, on this board or off it, give me an answer. Maybe I'm just asking too much

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1332443948' post='1031263']
Yea Captain Checkdown is right, I blame auto spell check for that. I know it comes from a misinformed mindset, I just want a clear answer as to why from the select few that choose to bash or as they say, be "Realist" about Flacco.

I've been asking this same question for the past 3 offseasons now and still haven't found one person, on this board or off it, give me an answer. Maybe I'm just asking too much
[/quote]
Yeah, I dont get it either. Some fans just want to find someone to blame for everything and I guess the QB is an easy outlet.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1332429244' post='1030998']


Where was your hero Rice while Flacco was busy putting his team on his shoulders in the AFCCG?
Oh, he was on Flacco's shoulders too, like everyone else.
[/quote]
You seriously are gonna start that?

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1332457111' post='1031506']
You seriously are gonna start that?
[/quote]
he wouldnt have started it. And even if he was he would have enough backers. RR gets shut down an awful lot in big games and then flacco pulls us through, but joe gets no praise from the few who are true haters. thats the point hes making. they bash joe all day, but would never ever bash rice


except Alexir, who just bashes both lol!

[The Raven]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1332457111' post='1031506']
You seriously are gonna start that?
[/quote]

Yes, he is, and I'll join in. Flacco and Ricky carried the team that day. Rice played like diddly poo. Ricky ran great. How can you explain that? Ricky tearing them up, but Rice getting shut down?

[BMOREHAWAII]

So Rice had an off day. No matter how great Joe did against a terrible defense we still lost. I am a huge Ray Rice fan, i find it unfair that when someone else does bad all the Flacco homers find a quick outlet to blame to get people's eyes off of Flacco.

[BMOREHAWAII]

But then again, we always blame Cam Cameron for Flacco's faults so im going to go ahead and blame Cameron for Ray Rice's performance that day as well..

[scrock]

[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I sure as hell dont want to have to franchise him next year, because the way things are going with CB salaries, we will have to franchise webb next year because we may not be able to afford him to a LT deal, [b]especially if Reed and Ray are back.[/b][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]So get flacco sortid now, and hopefully at least one fo RR and Webb, so the other can be tagged next year.[/font][/color][/quote]

The Ravens are going to sign Webb to a long term deal just as they will sign Flacco and Rice to long term deals, Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are gone after this year in all likelihood..Ray just wont stick around as his level of play drops off..and Reed has been thinking retirement for years now and will most likely want to go out with Ray and go into the HOF together

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1332457769' post='1031512']
So Rice had an off day. No matter how great Joe did against a terrible defense we still lost. I am a huge Ray Rice fan, i find it unfair that when someone else does bad all the Flacco homers find a quick outlet to blame to get people's eyes off of Flacco.
[/quote]
look there you go.. you make excuses when Flacco does well, (terrible defense)... what the hell did you say when he tore up pitts twice??
Then when if he does bad agaisnt a top defense that same arguement isnt valid??

When RR does bad, off day, when he does well against notouriously awful run teams, ie browns, hes a shoe in hall of famer??

YOu have to treat every person the same, some people dont do that and bash and bash and bash joe all the time no matter what he does, who he does it against, and who he carries

[flynismo]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1332457769' post='1031512']
So Rice had an off day. No matter how great Joe did against a terrible defense we still lost. I am a huge Ray Rice fan, i find it unfair that when someone else does bad all the Flacco homers find a quick outlet to blame to get people's eyes off of Flacco.
[/quote]

Ray Rice also played like garbage the previous playoff game in Houston, while Flacco accounted for both of our TDs. You can go ahead and excuse him for that too.

Where was Rice and his [b]2.4 YPC[/b] in our rematch against PIT, while Flacco was busy throwing the last minute TD?

How about Rice's [b]2.8 YPC[/b] against SFO, while Flacco accounted for the only TD by either team that entire game?

Should I continue, or is Rice's failure in the playoffs and the above mentioned games enough for you and your hero?

[scrock]

I love Ray Rice but he hasnt been a factor in a playoff game since that game years ago against the Patriots

Joe Flacco has carried our offense the past two years in the playoffs, people hate on his play in the playoffs but the past 2 years it has improved, especially this year....and the first 2 years he was a rookie and his 2nd year he was banged up pretty bad, had trouble walking

[flynismo]

2011 Playoffs:

[u][b]Ray Rice[/b][/u]

42 attempts for 127 yards, 3.0 YPC, 5 rec for 31 yards, 0 TD

[u][b]Joe Flacco[/b][/u]

36 - 63 (57.1%) for 482 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT


So people can shut up now about how Flacco rides Rice, since it was never true in the first place.

[arnie_uk]

just look at what he said before, flacco played a bad defense against the pats so it doesnt count.
RR runs on bad defenses he a HOFer
RR plays bad he has an off day
Joe plays bad we need tyrod in

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1332460733' post='1031576']

Ray Rice also played like garbage the previous playoff game in Houston, while Flacco accounted for both of our TDs. You can go ahead and excuse him for that too.

Where was Rice and his [b]2.4 YPC[/b] in our rematch against PIT, while Flacco was busy throwing the last minute TD?

How about Rice's [b]2.8 YPC[/b] against SFO, while Flacco accounted for the only TD by either team that entire game?

Should I continue, or is Rice's failure in the playoffs and the above mentioned games enough for you and your hero?
[/quote]
Since when does Ray Rice play Qb? You seriously trying to compare them two? Thats just redundant.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1332459976' post='1031556']
look there you go.. you make excuses when Flacco does well, (terrible defense)... what the hell did you say when he tore up pitts twice??
Then when if he does bad agaisnt a top defense that same arguement isnt valid??

When RR does bad, off day, when he does well against notouriously awful run teams, ie browns, hes a shoe in hall of famer??

YOu have to treat every person the same, some people dont do that and bash and bash and bash joe all the time no matter what he does, who he does it against, and who he carries
[/quote]
I dont bash Flacco all the time. I just bashed Cam Cameron.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1332461529' post='1031595']
You seriously trying to compare a QB to a RB? Thats just redundant.
[/quote]
you didnt understand the point he was making? [i]<deleted>[/i]

[flynismo]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1332461491' post='1031593']
just look at what he said before, flacco played a bad defense against the pats so it doesnt count.
RR runs on bad defenses he a HOFer
RR plays bad he has an off day
Joe plays bad we need tyrod in
[/quote]


Yeah, funny how that works

[arnie_uk]

and this is not what i wanted with this thread.......................

[BMOREHAWAII]

Sure im a stat guy but i dont bring that stuff up everywhere. When someone criticises Flacco everyone jumps to his defense when all we are doing is stating the obvious. I'm no Flacco fan per se, but i never said i hated the guy..relax were on the same team

[Maryland1]

[font=verdana, geneva, sans-serif][i][color=#ff0000]MOD NOTE: [/color]The topic of this thread is [color=#0000ff]Joe Flacco's contract negotions[/color][color=#000000] (see OP).[/color][/i][/font]

[scrock]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1332462050' post='1031620']
Sure im a stat guy but i dont bring that stuff up everywhere. When someone criticises Flacco everyone jumps to his defense when all we are doing is stating the obvious. I'm no Flacco fan per se, but i never said i hated the guy..relax were on the same team
[/quote]

its that people dont give Joe any credit, like I said previously Ray Rice hasnt done anything in the playoffs other than 1 game against the Patriots a few years ago...Joe has played well in the playoffs the previous two years and has had to carry the offense

Ray Lewis knows whats up, go back and watch his speech after the Patriots game....I'll go with Ray on this one, he's seen enough football to know when a guy can play and Joe can play

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1332461106' post='1031581']
2011 Playoffs:

[u][b]Ray Rice[/b][/u]

42 attempts for 127 yards, 3.0 YPC, 5 rec for 31 yards, 0 TD

[u][b]Joe Flacco[/b][/u]

36 - 63 (57.1%) for 482 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT


So people can shut up now about how Flacco rides Rice, since it was never true in the first place.
[/quote]

Whoa there. I'm sold on flacco as well. He's shown brilliance and will achieve it soon BUT that stat line is two games. Can we please compare that same stat line over the span of the regular season? I'm not gonna waste time looking it up, rices would be more impressive.

They both are important. Without rices regular season stability you don't win enough games (the past 4 years) to get into the playoffs. And yes joe looked brilliant at moments this past year especially when he was allowed to spread things out and run uptempo out of the shotgun... And I do believe he will be reliable enough to win enough regular season games to get u regularly to the dance in the future; but let's not gamble the mortgage here and throw rice under the bus.

Gosh dang, we're lucky enough to have two of the best young up-and-coming offensive players in the nfl getting locked up to long term deals and were bickering about either one being garbage??

Move to Philly.


And duly noting the mod note above ^^ flacco deserves somewhere in the $8-11 mill per range if he wants a 5 or 6 year extension. The ravens are in the drivers seat here I think. He can argue what Flynn got and we can say we're not a desperate team that's gonna throw money at you. He argues wins we can say defense. If he says he deserves more than Alex smith we can say once smith got a comparable defense and coach he played one really good year (more consistent than joe overall with less turnovers). Let's not be silly, joe wants this thing locked up just as bad as the ravens. He just lost his pro bowl LG and his center and LT are a year older. Right now behind boldin and smith there isn't a receiver on the team with more than what? 15 catches? Sure if he goes out and plays lights out he's only going to get the contract hes asking for now unless he leaves for a bottom feeder that's willing to overpay. But, on the flip side if he plays poorly (and ray and Ed are a year older and pagano is gone) and if that D takes a step back and the team maybe misses the playoffs at 10-6 then he's gonna get less than our current offer.

I think, unfortunately, this thing takes a while to play out. But ultimately I think joe signs for seething like 5 yr/$52 mill, $30 guaranteed.

[Ravensfan23]

I agree with you 100% about the foolishness of piting Flacco vs Rice, even though I don't think most were bashing Rice as much as they were say don't give him all the credit. But Flacco and Rice will be at the top of their game together for a long time.

What I do disagree with is that the Ravens have all the leverage over Flacco. Flacco has a legit beef with thhe wins. He has the most wins in a 4 year spans of any QB in NFL history. That's not all defense. The Ravens have always had a top flight defense, but kno QB in our history has come close to matching Flacco.

Flacco can also argue that he's performed at a high level despite not having elite talent around him. Flacco is the best QB we've had in franchise history and if there is any franchise that should appreciate stability at QB its the Ravens.

If the Ravens were looking to have leverage over Flacco they should have tempered their excitement about him doing the State of The Ravens presser.

I personally think this will be one of the smoothest negotiations of a big time contract the Ravens will have. It'll be done before the draft imo.