What Could've Been

[tctony]

With the departure of Grubbs official, allow me to reminisce for a moment about what our offensive line could've looked like:

Gaither - Grubbs - Brown - Yanda - Oher

Wow! That would've been a dominant line.

However, 3/5th of those guys are gone, and Ozzie has found replacements for them, and will have to do so again.

I think losing Grubbs puts a lot of pressure on us to draft OL in the upcoming draft, and to a lesser extent to find a capable WR in free agency.

In regards to the draft: McKinnie is old, Birk is old, if we get Hutchinson he's old, if we sign Mathis he's 30, Oher is inconsistent. ...you get the point.

Ozzie is going to have to work something out, because without a capable offensive line this team won't go anywhere.

[Edit] Guys, I'm not being negative! Just reminiscing about the talent we've had on our OL. If anything, it is encouraging that Ozzie will be able to scout out some more talent.

[Owenny]

Yeah we've had some good players leave but if Ozzie could pull out some stops and have our O-Line looking like:

Oher - Mathis - Birk - Yanda - Winston;

I'd be happy and confident heading into the draft possibly only looking for an upgrade at C.

[lgcs27288]

ooohhhhhh weelllllllll

[tctony]

[quote name='Owenny' timestamp='1331827238' post='1022958']
Yeah we've had some good players leave but if Ozzie could pull out some stops and have our O-Line looking like:

Oher - Mathis - Birk - Yanda - Winston;

I'd be happy and confident heading into the draft possibly only looking for an upgrade at C.
[/quote]

That would not be bad. Mathis and Winston seem to be highly regarded.

We need to be looking at a replacement at center in this draft for sure.



[quote name='lgcs27288' timestamp='1331827312' post='1022962']
ooohhhhhh weelllllllll
[/quote]

Yup, thats about all we can say

[Bazooka Joe]

Read on scout board that Ozzie offered Jason Brown a contract. And Mathis is in town.

Not too upset with losing Grubbs. He'll be replaced in the draft.

We need to improve upon an OL that couldn't get six inches on many occassions.

[jaege]

Oz knows what he is doing. We will still have a nice tough o-line come September.

[codizzle]

That would have been one wayyyy expensive line If we had kept all of those players and I guess technically if gaither wasn't a lazy piece of work

[tctony]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1331827742' post='1022981']
That would have been one wayyyy expensive line If we had kept all of those players and I guess technically if gaither wasn't a lazy piece of work
[/quote]

I agree. But...we don't' know what we could've been able to sign guys for. Ex: If the Rams hadn't tampered with Brown, we might've signed him. We should've had a lot more leverage with Gaither, I'm still not sure what happened there.

Also, it all starts in the line. We wouldn't really need somebody of Rice's caliber if we had that sort of line, for instance.



[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1331827612' post='1022975']
Oz knows what he is doing. We will still have a nice tough o-line come September.
[/quote]

Agreed. If we land Mathis this blow will be softened.

[GrimCoconut]

How about a line with McNeil, Mathis, Birk, Yanda & Winston/Oher? Sounds like a nice line to me.

[-Truth-]

Jason Brown under-performed mightily in St. Louis. And Michael Oher hasn't been the same since his Rookie season.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1331827958' post='1022986']
How about a line with McNeil, Mathis, Birk, Yanda & Winston/Oher? Sounds like a nice line to me.
[/quote]
Definitely sounds nice. But I see us passing on Marcus McNeill. Although last year could be considered somewhat of an anomaly because of his injuries, I see him finding a lot of interest on the market. I personally don't see us competing for a soon to be 29 LT who just dealt with two knee surgeries and a neck ailment over a period of a year. Given that he failed the Chargers exit physical, it doesn't exactly help simmer down the skepticism.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1331828579' post='1022999']

Definitely sounds nice. But I see us passing on Marcus McNeill. Although last year could be considered somewhat of an anomaly because of his injuries, I see him finding a lot of interest on the market. I personally don't see us competing for a soon to be 29 LT who just dealt with two knee surgeries and a neck ailment over a period of a year. Given that he failed the Chargers exit physical, it doesn't exactly help simmer down the skepticism.
[/quote]
I hear you on the competition. I think our chances of landing McNeil depends on who comes knocking. I think if a contender like us comes he would be more willing to go there than a team like the Jaguars for example. I could see him go to a team like the Rams or Lions, though. The Lions do have an interview with him.

With that said, I can see teams being scared off by his injuries & just not bringing him in, which is the big problem. You are right to be concerned about his injuries just as I am. I just question how serious those injuries are now. He has had a lot of time to heal, so he could very well be recovered. If he comes here on the cheap because of those injuries then even better.

Even with those injuries I think he is an upgrade over McKinnie.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1331829515' post='1023022']
I hear you on the competition. I think our chances of landing McNeil depends on who comes knocking. I think if a contender like us comes he would be more willing to go there than a team like the Jaguars for example. I could see him go to a team like the Rams or Lions, though. The Lions do have an interview with him.

With that said, I can see teams being scared off by his injuries & just not bringing him in, which is the big problem. You are right to be concerned about his injuries just as I am. I just question how serious those injuries are now. He has had a lot of time to heal, so he could very well be recovered. If he comes here on the cheap because of those injuries then even better.

Even with those injuries I think he is an upgrade over McKinnie.
[/quote]
Provided that he's healthy, or healthier at least, he probably would be an upgrade over McKinnie. I agree, it does depend on who comes knocking. Though I think he could be the beneficiary of a relatively weak FA class of LTs. I also question the severity of his injuries, however, I was a bit thrown off by the failed physical. With regards to our OL, I'm just happy to see us pursuing Evan Mathis and Eric Winston. Both are in the top tier of their position and would do wonders for our front.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1331827063' post='1022948']
With the departure of Grubbs official, allow me to reminisce for a moment about what our offensive line could've looked like:

Gaither - Grubbs - Brown - Yanda - Oher

Wow! That would've been a dominant line.

However, 3/5th of those guys are gone, and Ozzie has found replacements for them, and will have to do so again.

I think losing Grubbs puts a lot of pressure on us to draft OL in the upcoming draft, and to a lesser extent to find a capable WR in free agency.

In regards to the draft: McKinnie is old, Birk is old, if we get Hutchinson he's old, if we sign Mathis he's 30, Oher is inconsistent. ...you get the point.

Ozzie is going to have to work something out, because without a capable offensive line this team won't go anywhere.
[/quote]


Gotta disagree, we need to focus on the Defense for now on, im done with the Offense with Cam being here. I just dont care anymore. We pretty much need a whole new center to left O LINE, mean while we need pass rushers and for some reason we need WRers AGAIN!!. Lets just focus on the Defense imo and let our WRers that we do have actually play, there isnt anything wrong with LQ. Williams, dont know much about Doss, hasnt played but only what 2 or 3 snaps.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1331829878' post='1023033']

Provided that he's healthy, or healthier at least, he probably would be an upgrade over McKinnie. I agree, it does depend on who comes knocking. Though I think he could be the beneficiary of a relatively weak FA class of LTs. I also question the severity of his injuries, however, I was a bit thrown off by the failed physical. With regards to our OL, I'm just happy to see us pursuing Evan Mathis and Eric Winston. Both are in the top tier of their position and would do wonders for our front.
[/quote]
Agreed on everything you said. We have an accord. Lol. I love Pirates.

Anyway, I would love a line with McNeil, Mathis, Birk, Yanda & Winston. We would have possibly one of the most dominant & complete lines in football. With Mathis & Yanda, Birk's age would be decently masked. We could draft a center still & should. We could trade or keep Oher. I would be fine with either scenario. If we keep Oher, he is amazing depth. I would retain Reid, Harewood, & Boren depending on Oher. If Oher stays Harewood would be gone.

I just love the idea of that line, and it is possible though not necessarily probable. It would greatly improve our line, though.

As for the injuries, I really think San Diego wanted to move on & used the physical as an excuse.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1331831074' post='1023097']



Gotta disagree, we need to focus on the Defense for now on, im done with the Offense with Cam being here. I just dont care anymore. We pretty much need a whole new center to left O LINE, mean while we need pass rushers and for some reason we need WRers AGAIN!!. Lets just focus on the Defense imo and let our WRers that we do have actually play, there isnt anything wrong with LQ. Williams, dont know much about Doss, hasnt played but only what 2 or 3 snaps.
[/quote]
I agree we need to focus on defense, but I feel like we do that in the draft. I would rather draft defensive players than offensive. If we sign McNeil, Mathis & Winston in FA, we could just focus our draft to defense except center & WR.

[tctony]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1331831074' post='1023097']


Gotta disagree, we need to focus on the Defense for now on, im done with the Offense with Cam being here. I just dont care anymore. We pretty much need a whole new center to left O LINE, mean while we need pass rushers and for some reason we need WRers AGAIN!!. Lets just focus on the Defense imo and let our WRers that we do have actually play, there isnt anything wrong with LQ. Williams, dont know much about Doss, hasnt played but only what 2 or 3 snaps.
[/quote]

I think our D is pretty much set. We need to start finding replacements for Ray and Ed, but everywhere else we are pretty solid. McPhee and Kruger look like they are going to pan out well.

We need to refocus on our OL. We won't have [i]any[/i] offense if we can't block.

I like L. Williams as well. If Cameron pulls his head out of his behind and sends Boldin on some slants and utilizes Pitta better, we could be getting somewhere.

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1331831226' post='1023100'] Agreed on everything you said. We have an accord. Lol. I love Pirates. Anyway, I would love a line with McNeil, Mathis, Birk, Yanda & Winston. We would have possibly one of the most dominant & complete lines in football. With Mathis & Yanda, Birk's age would be decently masked. We could draft a center still & should. We could trade or keep Oher. I would be fine with either scenario. If we keep Oher, he is amazing depth. I would retain Reid, Harewood, & Boren depending on Oher. If Oher stays Harewood would be gone. I just love the idea of that line, and it is possible though not necessarily probable. It would greatly improve our line, though. As for the injuries, I really think San Diego wanted to move on & used the physical as an excuse.[/quote]

The more people talk about it, the more trying out Oher at guard seems like a good idea. He has a huge body...very "guard" like haha. Would feel bad about the constant switcharoos for him, though.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1331831674' post='1023119']


I think our D is pretty much set. We need to start finding replacements for Ray and Ed, but everywhere else we are pretty solid. McPhee and Kruger look like they are going to pan out well.

We need to refocus on our OL. We won't have [i]any[/i] offense if we can't block.

I like L. Williams as well. If Cameron pulls his head out of his behind and sends Boldin on some slants and utilizes Pitta better, we could be getting somewhere.



The more people talk about it, the more trying out Oher at guard seems like a good idea. He has a huge body...very "guard" like haha. Would feel bad about the constant switcharoos for him, though.
[/quote]
To your first point, I like our depth for DE. I like McPhee & Jones. We should add another guy, but I like them.
As for OLB, I am worried. Yes, Kruger looks good but this is the last year of his deal. I could see him walk next year if he has a good year. We do have McAdoo & Kindle, but they are very unproven. We should get another guy in the draft as insurance.

Regarding Oher, I think he would be a good guard. I really do. I would like to keep Oher as the best depth OL player in the league, I just don't see that happening when he could start on other teams. If we sign Mathis & Winston, I see Oher gone.

[Ravenstown52]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1331831226' post='1023100']
Agreed on everything you said. We have an accord. Lol. I love Pirates.

Anyway, I would love a line with [b]McNeil, Mathis, Birk, Yanda & Winston[/b]. We would have possibly one of the most dominant & complete lines in football. With Mathis & Yanda, Birk's age would be decently masked. We could draft a center still & should. We could trade or keep Oher. I would be fine with either scenario. If we keep Oher, he is amazing depth. I would retain Reid, Harewood, & Boren depending on Oher. If Oher stays Harewood would be gone.

I just love the idea of that line, and it is possible though not necessarily probable. It would greatly improve our line, though.

As for the injuries, I really think San Diego wanted to move on & used the physical as an excuse.
[/quote]
I like this . Maybe add a late draft pick center and see how he fares throughout the season?

[tctony]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1331832276' post='1023132']
To your first point, I like our depth for DE. I like McPhee & Jones. We should add another guy, but I like them.
As for OLB, I am worried. Yes, Kruger looks good but this is the last year of his deal. I could see him walk next year if he has a good year. We do have McAdoo & Kindle, but they are very unproven. We should get another guy in the draft as insurance.

Regarding Oher, I think he would be a good guard. I really do. I would like to keep Oher as the best depth OL player in the league, I just don't see that happening when he could start on other teams. If we sign Mathis & Winston, I see Oher gone.
[/quote]

I would not be adverse to trading Oher if somebody would give a 2nd rounder for him.

[Alexir]

2007 draft was very underrated, wish gaither had some moxy and wish we locked brown down

[Ravenslifer]

I'll tell you what I always think when we play the "what could have been game." We could have had Kenny Britt or Hakeem Nicks over Michael Oher - if Oher never becomes a left tackle, that knowledge will continue to haunt me.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1331827063' post='1022948']
With the departure of Grubbs official, allow me to reminisce for a moment about what our offensive line could've looked like:

Gaither - Grubbs - Brown - Yanda - Oher

Wow! That would've been a dominant line.
[/quote]

It would have, but it wouldn't have lasted very long. Brown as a UFA in 2009, Gaither and Yanda in 2011 and Grubbs this year.

There's no way they could have paid all 4 of those contracts (assuming Gaither had not been, well, Gaither) and kept them all.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='B-more Ravor' timestamp='1331833878' post='1023194']

It would have, but it wouldn't have lasted very long. Brown as a UFA in 2009, Gaither and Yanda in 2011 and Grubbs this year.

There's no way they could have paid all 4 of those contracts (assuming Gaither had not been, well, Gaither) and kept them all.
[/quote]

We probably could have, but it would come at the cost of other players on offense and defense i.e. no Anquan, maybe no Ray, no Sizzle, no Ngata, etc. A lot of our big contracts are on the defensive side of the ball - it's all about weighing what you gain over what you lose - for instance, because we're out Grubbs we have more money, and a better chance of signing Webb and Williams back, two important free agent corners. Or if we sign Mathis, who will no doubt get much less than we would have paid Grubbs, we might have more money to play with and can bring in somebody else, maybe David Hawthorne or Curtis Lofton. And we need to save money in the future for other deals - any number of things could happen.

[Militant X 1]

Ozzie probably plans on re-stocking through the draft. that's fine with me! the youth explosion in Baltimore has begun!!!!

~Mili

[admartian]

I feel like we're always patching up the line. Every year there's something that happens because we don't want to resign someone or have to draft high thus bypassing another need, for an OL.

Feels even worse when Jason Brown left.

Conversely, we held on way too long with the turnstile Mike Flynn at centre, but we let someone like Grubbs go that easy?

what the heck?!?!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1331833503' post='1023187']
I'll tell you what I always think when we play the "what could have been game." We could have had Kenny Britt or Hakeem Nicks over Michael Oher - if Oher never becomes a [i][b][s]left[/s][/b][/i] tackle, that knowledge will continue to haunt me.
[/quote]
Fixed for ya [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img]

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1331839177' post='1023329']
Fixed for ya [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img]
[/quote]

Lol. Well if he somehow becomes a pro-bowl left guard and replaces Grubbs, I'd say we broke even, even though we did give up a pick for him.

[Corvus]

I'm disappointed with Oher overall as well, but I think all the hate and vitriol still coming his way is really misdirected, especially if we move him to another spot on the line for the FOURTH time in FOUR years as some of you are suggesting we do. How is a guy supposed to remain consistent at his position if his first 4 years look like this: RT, LT, RT, and now LT or G if we sign Winston? Kudos to him for saying he'll play wherever the team needs him, but if our coaching staff is at all intelligent, they'll leave him at RT and see how he does with more than a season at that position. Unless we can find a trade partner for Mike to make a place for Winston (and pick up a bit of cap space), leave him where he is and focus on signing Mathis or drafting Peter Konz to solidify the interior or Mike Adams to solidify the tackle spot.

Also one last thought on our line: we should have never fired Matsko and promoted Moller when he was going through a DUI trial, one of the poorest moves I think we have ever made. Matsko had that Panther o-line in sync and rolling most of the year last season.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1331834292' post='1023207']

We probably could have, but it would come at the cost of other players on offense and defense i.e. no Anquan, maybe no Ray, no Sizzle, no Ngata, etc.
[/quote]

Well, yeah, that's the point I was making. To keep all 4 of those guys, we'd have a great OL, but little else. It's just a shame that the timing of all of them becoming good and becoming FAs sort of coincided.

That's the reason they let Brown go in the first place. You really can't pay a Center that much if you expect to re-sign your Guards and Tackles in the future because they usually make more. It's also why it's tough to pay both of your Guards that kind of money, when you're going to have to pay for your Tackles at some point too (whoever they may be!).