Texans Release Eric Winston

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='RavensWin09' timestamp='1331838201' post='1023302']

exactly, and why are people saying move oher to left, why not trade him? is that not one of ozzie's options or something. rather keep mckinnie than oher if we had to.
[/quote]ohers cap hit is like 1.5 mckinnes is 4.2 after he is due a bonus on Saturday. Currently 3.7 so it makes sense to cut ties with him to afford Mathis and Winston

[The Raven]

Why on earth would we move Oher back to LT? We signed McKinnie because our FO didn't have enough faith in Oher as the LT, and now people are suggesting to cut McKinnie and move Oher back to LT?

Smh!

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1331838672' post='1023314']
Why on earth would we move Oher back to LT? We signed McKinnie because our FO didn't have enough faith in Oher as the LT, and now people are suggesting to cut McKinnie and move Oher back to LT?

Smh!
[/quote]
how do you know that? we had one starting tackle on our team, oher.. then reid, they didnt want to start reid.. there was no decent RTs available, so the best option was to sign mckinnie for LT and Oher at RT.

they didnt necessarily do it because oher was a bad LT they done it because it made the whole line better, they may still see oher as their LT

[The Raven]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331838936' post='1023321']
how do you know that? we had one starting tackle on our team, oher.. then reid, they didnt want to start reid.. there was no decent RTs available, so the best option was to sign mckinnie for LT and Oher at RT.

they didnt necessarily do it because oher was a bad LT they done it because it made the whole line better, they may still see oher as their LT
[/quote]

It was pretty much the general consensus that was the reason.

If they wanted Oher on the left, why didn't we put McKinnie at RT? Or sign another RT?

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1331842962' post='1023431']

It was pretty much the general consensus that was the reason.

If they wanted Oher on the left, why didn't we put McKinnie at RT? Or sign another RT?
[/quote]
mckinnie isnt a RT and there was no good RTs available, all im saying is we do not know what they think regards oher on the left.. they never said he will be or wont be our LT. it is possible mckinnie on the left and oher on the right was the only option available over oher lt and reid rt..

[Blex64]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331838936' post='1023321']
how do you know that? we had one starting tackle on our team, oher.. then reid, they didnt want to start reid.. there was no decent RTs available, so the best option was to sign mckinnie for LT and Oher at RT.

they didnt necessarily do it because oher was a bad LT they done it because it made the whole line better, they may still see oher as their LT
[/quote]

Oher is bad at LT. If he was good, he'd be playing LT. We wouldn't have signed and started McKinnie and moved Oher again otherwise. Moving him again is ridiculous, if we want him to progress as a player we need to give him consistency, this idea is absolutely retarded.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1331846993' post='1023538']

Oher is bad at LT. If he was good, he'd be playing LT. We wouldn't have signed and started McKinnie and moved Oher again otherwise. Moving him again is ridiculous, if we want him to progress as a player we need to give him consistency, this idea is absolutely retarded.
[/quote]
and jah reid would have been playing RT right? all im saying is, if we sign winston, dont be surprised to see oher at LT, its possible

[Blex64]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331847162' post='1023544']
and jah reid would have been playing RT right? all im saying is, if we sign winston, dont be surprised to see oher at LT, its possible
[/quote]

I like how you associate "possible" with "don't be surprised." I doubt it, even if we sign Winston. Trying to shop Oher is a far more likely possibility, he's only got a year or two left on his rookie contract and we have absolutely no reason to resign him at the moment.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1331847738' post='1023560']

I like how you associate "possible" with "don't be surprised." I doubt it, even if we sign Winston. Trying to shop Oher is a far more likely possibility, he's only got a year or two left on his rookie contract and we have absolutely no reason to resign him at the moment.
[/quote]
whats wrong with "its possible" and "dont be surprised" in the same sentence?

its possible the ravens win a superbowl, i wouldnt be surprised.. nothing wrong there

[gabefergy]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1331842962' post='1023431']

It was pretty much the general consensus that was the reason.

If they wanted Oher on the left, why didn't we put McKinnie at RT? Or sign another RT?
[/quote]

I disagree, the reason to get McKinnie was so we didnt have to start Reid at RT. We already knew Oher was capable of RT and McKinnie had played his entire career at LT. As some others have pointed out, there were not many options on the market at RT. I'm not saying moving Oher once again is a good idea, but he wasnt terrible at LT in 2010. It would also give us a much younger, more athletic line. The more I think about bringing in Winston the more I like the idea, although I am not sure if we have the cap room to sign both Mathis and Winston.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1331847959' post='1023567']

I disagree, the reason to get McKinnie was so we didnt have to start Reid at RT. We already knew Oher was capable of RT and McKinnie had played his entire career at LT. As some others have pointed out, there were not many options on the market at RT. I'm not saying moving Oher once again is a good idea, but he wasnt terrible at LT in 2010. It would also give us a much younger, more athletic line. The more I think about bringing in Winston the more I like the idea, although I am not sure if we have the cap room to sign both Mathis and Winston.
[/quote]
my point exactly, i still feel like they want oher to be the bookend LT, it could just have been circumstances dictating the signing of mckinnie and oher being moved again to RT. Winston at RT, Oher at LT, is better than Oher at RT and Mckinnie at LT

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331848336' post='1023574']
my point exactly, i still feel like they want oher to be the bookend LT, it could just have been circumstances dictating the signing of mckinnie and oher being moved again to RT. Winston at RT, Oher at LT, is better than Oher at RT and Mckinnie at LT
[/quote]
How can you say that Oher is better at LT than McKinnie?

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1331768662' post='1022232']
From Aaron Wilson - [url="http://twitter.com/#!/RavensInsider/status/180076221240066048"]LINK[/url]

[/font][/color]
and from an earlier tweet...
[/color]

[color=#333333]We'll see how true this is, considering he's visiting (among others) the Chiefs, Lions, Rams, Dolphins, and us... We probably have the least amount of money to give him, though.[/color]
[/quote]

And now what's odd is Winston apparently wants to be the highest paid RT in the NFL. He's crazy-mad. I mean, I'm all for the idea of getting Winston, but that's madness. We can't pay that. I'm not sure if that's true, but it's on Rotoworld.

Regardless, there is some logic in the idea of solidifying the right side of the line with Winston, Yanda, & a center, with Mathis at the LG & Oher as the LT. It would mean that one part of the line is solid, and it would allow us to focus fully on the left. Mathis would go a long way to bringing the left solid. If we draft a strong center like Konz, Blake, Brewster, Molk, or even Vlachos, then our line becomes much improved. I believe any of those guys would be good fits for our line. Brewster was once even a 1st round pick just last year.

We could always draft Nate Potter to be LT, or even see if Reid could do it, though I am not sure how that will work out in all honesty. I am still behind the idea of getting McNeil (lol), but I am trying to be realistic with what we have.

If Winston wants that kind of money, I would just start Reid or Oher at RT. Forget that.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1331849365' post='1023594']
How can you say that Oher is better at LT than McKinnie?
[/quote]
please quote me where i said "oher is better than mckinnie"... im saying oher at LT and Winston at RT is better than Mckinnie at LT and Oher at RT.. dont just get bogged down to the one position look at the line as a whole.

If we drafted Konz for example and sign mathis, our only weak spot would be oher (who could improve), so we can slide protection and extra help his way. But if we dont get winston and have oher and mckinnie at both ends, we cant concentrate on either side cause both are weaknesses.

Get as many positions as strong as possible, try and concentrate on the weaknesses, ie Te to chip, or FB/RB blocks at that side to improve them. One bigger weakness at LT (oher) is easier to handle than two smaller weaknesses on both sides (oher and Mckinnie)

Look at the bigger picture

[RavensWin09]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1331849569' post='1023599']

[b]And now what's odd is Winston apparently wants to be the highest paid RT in the NFL. He's crazy-mad. I mean, I'm all for the idea of getting Winston, but that's madness. We can't pay that. I'm not sure if that's true, but it's on Rotoworld.[/b]

Regardless, there is some logic in the idea of solidifying the right side of the line with Winston, Yanda, & a center, with Mathis at the LG & Oher as the LT. It would mean that one part of the line is solid, and it would allow us to focus fully on the left. Mathis would go a long way to bringing the left solid. If we draft a strong center like Konz, Blake, Brewster, Molk, or even Vlachos, then our line becomes much improved. I believe any of those guys would be good fits for our line. Brewster was once even a 1st round pick just last year.

We could always draft Nate Potter to be LT, or even see if Reid could do it, though I am not sure how that will work out in all honesty. I am still behind the idea of getting McNeil (lol), but I am trying to be realistic with what we have.

If Winston wants that kind of money, I would just start Reid or Oher at RT. Forget that.
[/quote]
yep, saw that also. i never trust rotoworld and haven't looked at it in a while. it was just at the top of the search list. most likely untrue. he still has his pass blocking flaws and doesn't deserve "TOP" money but he is above average and i think the ravens can work around that but if he means highest paid T in the league, ozzie has just cut his line with him and i would as well.

[Corvus]

I love all of the experts on these forums. Reid has hardly played at all, period, but he would be a terrible LT without ever seeing a snap there. Oher, because of an inconsistent '10 campaign at LT is simply an atrocious LT. Did we all forget how bad our entire o-line was in '10? Ray barely averaged 4 yds a carry that year so the blame wasn't solely on Oher. I am not saying Oher or Reid are answers at LT (and honestly I was impressed with McKinnie most of the season despite me originally hating the signing so I don't mind him being back in the fold this year) but to assume these things with small to absolutely zero sample data about these guys is ridiculous on our part as fans.

I think the best thing for our o-line is consistency, leave McKinnie, Yanda, and Oher where they played last year and fill the LG and C spots. I don't care if its signing Mathis and Birk or signing Gurode and drafting someone like Konz (or any other option you can think of), the bottom line is consistency is a huge part of any successful offensive line and when you already have 2 potential vacancies in the middle of your line, why shuffle that lineup even more than it already is going to be changed? With two years in the same spot for the first time in his career, Oher may finally start living up to our expectations.

[CapoRocky]

I guess we could always draft a LT and keep Big Mikey Sl-Oher at RT.

[RavensWin09]

according to Aaron Wilson,
Mckninnie had a "positive" meeting with the ravens, has lost significant weight, is on training program, and will likely pick up option on signing bonus.

[CapoRocky]

[quote name='RavensWin09' timestamp='1331850549' post='1023622']
according to Aaron Wilson,
Mckninnie had a "positive" meeting with the ravens, has lost significant weight, is on training program, and will likely pick up option on signing bonus.
[/quote]

Okay, I guess we are going with him at LT. Now, we need a center and a new guard.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Corvus' timestamp='1331850279' post='1023614']
I love all of the experts on these forums. Reid has hardly played at all, period, but he would be a terrible LT without ever seeing a snap there. Oher, because of an inconsistent '10 campaign at LT is simply an atrocious LT. Did we all forget how bad our entire o-line was in '10? Ray barely averaged 4 yds a carry that year so the blame wasn't solely on Oher. I am not saying Oher or Reid are answers at LT (and honestly I was impressed with McKinnie most of the season despite me originally hating the signing so I don't mind him being back in the fold this year) but to assume these things with small to absolutely zero sample data about these guys is ridiculous on our part as fans.

I think the best thing for our o-line is consistency, leave McKinnie, Yanda, and Oher where they played last year and fill the LG and C spots. I don't care if its signing Mathis and Birk or signing Gurode and drafting someone like Konz (or any other option you can think of), the bottom line is consistency is a huge part of any successful offensive line and when you already have 2 potential vacancies in the middle of your line, why shuffle that lineup even more than it already is going to be changed? With two years in the same spot for the first time in his career, Oher may finally start living up to our expectations.
[/quote]
You make some good points, but we cant really have much consistency when we just lost our LG and center is still a huge question mark. Reid is definitely not a LT. He wasnt drafted to be a LT because he doesnt have the traits you want at LT like agility and lateral quickness. He could potentially be a monster at RT or maybe even at Guard, but we have to wait and see what his role will be. I think some of us are just trying to envision how our O-line could be best constructed with available options. Nothing is in absolutes, but it doesnt hurt to prognosticate.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331849914' post='1023607']
please quote me where i said "oher is better than mckinnie"... im saying oher at LT and Winston at RT is better than Mckinnie at LT and Oher at RT.. dont just get bogged down to the one position look at the line as a whole.

If we drafted Konz for example and sign mathis, our only weak spot would be oher (who could improve), so we can slide protection and extra help his way. But if we dont get winston and have oher and mckinnie at both ends, we cant concentrate on either side cause both are weaknesses.

Get as many positions as strong as possible, try and concentrate on the weaknesses, ie Te to chip, or FB/RB blocks at that side to improve them. One bigger weakness at LT (oher) is easier to handle than two smaller weaknesses on both sides (oher and Mckinnie)

Look at the bigger picture
[/quote]
What you said is Oher at LT and Winston at RT is better than McKinnie at LT and Oher at RT. That implies that you think that the duo of Oher and Winston is better than McKinnie and Oher. McKinnie is the only serviceable LT we've had on this team since Gaither was starting. I don't understand how you support the idea of getting rid of the only player on this team that can play the most important position along the line at an acceptable level. Oher has no right being placed on the left side again. If we get Winston then great, we'd have McKinnie and Winston as the starting left and right tackles. The quality of the left tackle directly impacts the passing game in many cases given the quality of pass rushers in this league. Yeah, McKinnie wasn't a Pro Bowl LT, but he did play admirably last season; he played at a level we needed him to play at for us to win football games. To say it's OK to cut loose the only LT we have to sign a RT and make another RT play on the left side is foolhardy.

You're also assuming we draft Konz with our first round pick. Your idea of a solid line gets blown out of the water if we draft LB or WR and let Konz fall to another team, two positions that we could very well pick over OL given the talent available at 29. There will be quality center prospects in the later rounds and I doubt Ozzie will let higher rated LB and WR prospects get past us.

[BloodRaven]

He wants to be the highest paid RT in history, thats fine but I'm pretty sure that takes us out of the running. I'm assuming that the focus will shift to Mathis and McKinnie/Oher are our bookends again.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1331853705' post='1023687']

What you said is Oher at LT and Winston at RT is better than McKinnie at LT and Oher at RT. That implies that you think that the duo of Oher and Winston is better than McKinnie and Oher. McKinnie is the only serviceable LT we've had on this team since Gaither was starting. I don't understand how you support the idea of getting rid of the only player on this team that can play the most important position along the line at an acceptable level. Oher has no right being placed on the left side again. If we get Winston then great, we'd have McKinnie and Winston as the starting left and right tackles. The quality of the left tackle directly impacts the passing game in many cases given the quality of pass rushers in this league. Yeah, McKinnie wasn't a Pro Bowl LT, but he did play admirably last season; he played at a level we needed him to play at for us to win football games. To say it's OK to cut loose the only LT we have to sign a RT and make another RT play on the left side is foolhardy.

You're also assuming we draft Konz with our first round pick. Your idea of a solid line gets blown out of the water if we draft LB or WR and let Konz fall to another team, two positions that we could very well pick over OL given the talent available at 29. There will be quality center prospects in the later rounds and I doubt Ozzie will let higher rated LB and WR prospects get past us.
[/quote]the only way we have a chance of affording Winston is cutting McKinnie and his 4.2 cap hit, ohers is under 2 IIRC, that's why if we got Winston, oher PROBABLY will be back on the left.

[arnie_uk]

and for the record im not saying oher is a better LT than McKinnie, im just saying i dont see how it would be finacially feasible to keep mckinnie if we signed winston.. i hate mckinnies run blocking, hes just lazy, but hes a better pass blocker than oher. If he loses weight, comes into camp fit and healthy, and puts a wee bit more effort in run blocking he will be the best LT we had since JO, if only for 1 season...

[flynismo]

Winston is the one guy above anyone else that I hope we sign. Sounds like he is legitimately interested in us as well...said that he wants to go to a team who can win it all right now, not another rebuilding project...and currently our biggest competition for him is KC

[PurpleandBlackBlood]

what if we do this:

McKinnie - Mathis - Birk - Yanda - Winston

Trade Oher and a few picks (maybe futures) for a first round pick.
Get Mike Wallace and then we would still have our other first round pick.

Tank offensive line, Real good receiving core.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='PurpleandBlackBlood' timestamp='1331921252' post='1024409']
what if we do this:

McKinnie - Mathis - Birk - Yanda - Winston

Trade Oher and a few picks (maybe futures) for a first round pick.
Get Mike Wallace and then we would still have our other first round pick.

Tank offensive line, Real good receiving core.
[/quote]
i didnt know this was an uncapped year

[arnie_uk]

i think this is why we are bringing winston in

Plan A - Grubbs, gone
Plan B - Mathis
Plan C - Winston RT, Oher/Reid LG

Instead of waiting on mathis' decision, we decide to bring winston in, and see what is what, incase he got signed and then mathis says no, so were left with sfa

[CapoRocky]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331921451' post='1024413']i think this is why we are bringing winston in Plan A - Grubbs, gone Plan B - Mathis Plan C - Winston RT, Oher/Reid LG Instead of waiting on mathis' decision, we decide to bring winston in, and see what is what, incase he got signed and then mathis says no, so were left with sfa[/quote]

Plan D- Sign Mathis and draft a center.

[PurpleandBlackBlood]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331921426' post='1024412']
i didnt know this was an uncapped year
[/quote]
we would be able to afford it if we gave him a contract where the majority of his money was made in the later years. we could afford winston and mathis by do the same technique as well