Ravens Cap Situation

[berad]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331580869' post='1018871']
i deleted mine, why is the redksins so high compared to the cowboys, and why dont the raiders and saints get any of the extra money
[/quote]

It probably depends on how much "extra" money they loaded into the uncapped year in order to circumvent the salary cap. A notable example is the $17M the Cowboys gave Miles Austin in 2010, obviously loading it to work around the cap. I can only imagine what Haynesworth got.

The Saints and Raiders must have done something similar but to a lesser extent, in a way they're being penalized $1.6M that they would have gotten if they had played by the rules.

[arnie_uk]

Good point on the saints and raiders, never thought of it like that, thank god we didnt do it..

Berad this is probably worthy of a thread on its own

[berad]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331581338' post='1018883']
Good point on the saints and raiders, never thought of it like that, thank god we didnt do it..

Berad this is probably worthy of a thread on its own
[/quote]

Haha someone can make it - but in the other teams forum

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1331581447' post='1018885']

Haha someone can make it - but in the other teams forum [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]
[/quote]
the redskins have enough of our players for it too go in raven talk

[JO_75]

So with the extra $1.6 Million, can the Ravens be able to afford to keep Grubbs now or will it only help in getting a long term deal for Rice and Webb done?

[Gordo52]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1331580970' post='1018874']
[img]http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x337/codyallanb14/b9189936.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
This picture cracks me up! Its so funny because I was thinking of this earlier when I answered some boy in my school, I even said "Aliens" and he was confused lol

[tctony]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331577840' post='1018782']
you dont understand.. that seven million will be given to him as part of his signing bonus ( he still gets the seven million) and his salary will be reduced to around $1mil which is vet min. Say we sign him to a 6 year extension ie 7 total years. For cap purposes, that seven million is split evenly over the life of the contract, ie 7 / 7 = 1 million per year. You then add that to his salary which is now reduced to 1 million, and his new cap figure is $2mil, with a saving of $5million.

Obviously these numbers arent correct and he would get more than a 7 milion signing bonus, but thats just laid out in an easy way to explain it.. in reality we would save $2mil at most probably, but thats a lot of money saved
[/quote]

Nah dude, we're not restructuring Flacco we are giving him a new deal. If we did that with his 7 mil this year we'd just be making his cap number for future years bigger.

Flacco will be getting a pay [i]raise[/i] when he gets a new contract.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1331582719' post='1018902']

Nah dude, we're not restructuring Flacco we are giving him a new deal. If we did that with his 7 mil this year we'd just be making his cap number for future years bigger.

Flacco will be getting a pay [i]raise[/i] when he gets a new contract.
[/quote]
if we give him a new deal it COULD be a restructure this year and an extension is all we are saying, no one knows. And yes it will make his cap hit more in years to come, but in years to come we wont be paying ed and ray, the cap also rises in years to come.

it just depends when they do it. if they do it now, it will be a restructure to help sign players, if its at the end of the summer it will be an extension because our shopping will be done.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331580798' post='1018868']
stop syaing that lol. Thats before we sign our ERFA and RFA, after all that we will have about $8mil, it was 5.7 with a $120 cap, then the cap was set at $120.6, so that brings it to around 6.3, now we get an extra 1.6, so we are sitting about $7.9mil
[/quote]

Webb is due a $2.742 million one-year base salary, and Williams is set to make $1.927 million

So we are actually saving more cap here as in the original cap update it was assumed cary was getting the first round tender, were in and around $8.7mil in cap space. Assuming Ellerbe ends up with a second round tender and we resign all our ERFA to the minimum

[gabefergy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331589953' post='1019061']
Webb is due a $2.742 million one-year base salary, and Williams is set to make $1.927 million

So we are actually saving more cap here as in the original cap update it was assumed cary was getting the first round tender, were in and around $8.7mil in cap space. Assuming Ellerbe ends up with a second round tender and we resign all our ERFA to the minimum
[/quote]
I'm not so sure Ellerbe gets a 2nd round tender. Nothing he has done on the field would suggest he is worth that much to the team, and I doubt another team would want to steal him away.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1331590958' post='1019083']
I'm not so sure Ellerbe gets a 2nd round tender. Nothing he has done on the field would suggest he is worth that much to the team, and I doubt another team would want to steal him away.
[/quote]
i think he used the second, because he would rather post "worst case" scenario, and the worst case is ellerbe is given a second. Its possible if McClain and BA have both said they would like to go elsewhere to the FO because we would be very thin at ILB.

But i think we probably let him hit FA and get him cheaper than the $2mil 2nd round tender, IF we even take him back

[gabefergy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331591264' post='1019091']
i think he used the second, because he would rather post "worst case" scenario, and the worst case is ellerbe is given a second. Its possible if McClain and BA have both said they would like to go elsewhere to the FO because we would be very thin at ILB.

But i think we probably let him hit FA and get him cheaper than the $2mil 2nd round tender, IF we even take him back
[/quote]
Or we could just give him a low-round tender.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1331591417' post='1019093']
Or we could just give him a low-round tender.
[/quote]
yea or that lol, thats like ROFR isnt it (right of first refusal)

[gabefergy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331591526' post='1019098']
yea or that lol, thats like ROFR isnt it (right of first refusal)
[/quote]
Essentially, but I think the salary is still close to 1M so its not too shabby.

[arnie_uk]

i would take it and give more effort than some players haha

[GrimCoconut]

I never thought Cary would receive a 1st round tender. I would be seriously surprised by Ozzie's judgment there. While I like Williams, I won't be upset if some team gives us a 2nd for him. That would be nice. It would suck to lose him, though. He is a pretty good player, he just is inconsistent and made some stupid mistakes. At times, Jimmy looked better than he did.

Then again, that comparison is unfair. Cary is a hard-worker. I'm proud of him.

[redrum52]

Anyone have a link with all our players under contracts cap situation? I think if we looked at that we could have a better idea for who else could possibly get the axe.

Also have another question, wasn't Ngatas contract set up so the first 2 years he wouod ft a majority of the money? If that's the case shouldn't we have more money to work with next season?

[Ravenslifer]

Honestly now I hope somebody swipes Cary. I'd rather have the extra second round pick and resign Webb. I love Cary, but I think Jimmy will be ready - he only made 3 starts last season, but looked good. The front office has for the most part had a sense of when they'd lose an important player - there almost always seems to be a guy ready to step in and take his place.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1331606025' post='1019388']
Honestly now I hope somebody swipes Cary. I'd rather have the extra second round pick and resign Webb. I love Cary, but I think Jimmy will be ready - he only made 3 starts last season, but looked good. The front office has for the most part had a sense of when they'd lose an important player - there almost always seems to be a guy ready to step in and take his place.
[/quote]

Then what happens if Webb or Smith gets hurt? Who starts then? Who plays NB then?

I totally understand the idea of getting value in return, as opposed to just a comp pick (maybe) next year, but that would leave them awfully thin at CB. Whereas with Webb, Williams and Smith, they've probably got one of the best top 3 CBs in the game.

Right now, when you add in Gorrer, they've got pretty decent depth - the kind of depth that a team with SB aspirations covets. Removing Williams from that equation, and then a strength becomes a spot where they will need to do some work to address their depth.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='B-more Ravor' timestamp='1331609382' post='1019459']

Then what happens if Webb or Smith gets hurt? Who starts then? Who plays NB then?

I totally understand the idea of getting value in return, as opposed to just a comp pick (maybe) next year, but that would leave them awfully thin at CB. Whereas with Webb, Williams and Smith, they've probably got one of the best top 3 CBs in the game.

Right now, when you add in Gorrer, they've got pretty decent depth - the kind of depth that a team with SB aspirations covets. Removing Williams from that equation, and then a strength becomes a spot where they will need to do some work to address their depth.
[/quote]
Great point, and this is a reason why I am conflicted over Cary. I'm not sure if he was just excellent or whether he benefited from Pagano's schemes or both. In one way I wonder if he is a one-year wonder, or whether he had this talent, worked hard for it, and just kept trying and finally got his chance from Pagano. I feel like the latter is true, but there is doubt in my mind, of course.

In all honesty, I won't be upset either way. I'm very conflicted over this idea. You get a 2nd round pick (one probably spent to get Williams' replacement due to losing a key player last year), and on the other hand you lose a pretty good man-corner for us last year. We lost Foxworth & Carr, who were pretty solid for us before injuries & depth buried them. We wouldn't have any experience except for Webb & Smith & Gorrer who are coming off rookie campaigns.

If we lose Williams, I would want us to draft Boykin. He can return kicks & punts, can do man pretty well, and he would be some very good depth. I would be very happy with him being a Raven. He could be had in the top part of the 3rd. I doubt he is there by our 3rd round pick. I don't think we lose Williams or Webb, though. I think they both play out their tenders, though I hope we extend Webb in all honesty.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='B-more Ravor' timestamp='1331609382' post='1019459']

Then what happens if Webb or Smith gets hurt? Who starts then? Who plays NB then?

I totally understand the idea of getting value in return, as opposed to just a comp pick (maybe) next year, but that would leave them awfully thin at CB. Whereas with Webb, Williams and Smith, they've probably got one of the best top 3 CBs in the game.

Right now, when you add in Gorrer, they've got pretty decent depth - the kind of depth that a team with SB aspirations covets. Removing Williams from that equation, and then a strength becomes a spot where they will need to do some work to address their depth.
[/quote]

We have Gorrer, Brown, plus a draft pick. In reality, Cary has been in the league 5 years now - up until this season he'd made exactly ONE start in his NFL career, in 2009. He had one PD coming into this season, and has 0 career interceptions. There was no way of knowing he'd play this good this year. He'll be 28 this year - now might be the chance to get something for him, and it might come down to the fact that we have to chose between him and Webb. If Webb gets paid, and Grubbs gets paid, where does the money come from for Cary? Besides, we drafted Jimmy in the first round - we've done this before, drafted Todd when we had Shannon, and everyone was like "Why do we need a tight end when we just signed Shannon last season?" What happened - by 2002 Shannon was back in Denver and Todd was the starter. Cary has some value now as a second-round pick. I'd rather have our two starting corners and a second round pick plus more money to play with than three starting corners, when I really think both Chykie and Danny can do just fine as the nickel corner if it comes to that.

[JO_75]

Will the $1.6 million extra help us at all in re-signing Webb, Grubbs and Rice?

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1331610180' post='1019473']

We have Gorrer, Brown, plus a draft pick. In reality, Cary has been in the league 5 years now - up until this season he'd made exactly ONE start in his NFL career, in 2009. He had one PD coming into this season, and has 0 career interceptions. There was no way of knowing he'd play this good this year. He'll be 28 this year - now might be the chance to get something for him, and it might come down to the fact that we have to chose between him and Webb. If Webb gets paid, and Grubbs gets paid, where does the money come from for Cary? Besides, we drafted Jimmy in the first round - we've done this before, drafted Todd when we had Shannon, and everyone was like "Why do we need a tight end when we just signed Shannon last season?" What happened - by 2002 Shannon was back in Denver and Todd was the starter. Cary has some value now as a second-round pick. I'd rather have our two starting corners and a second round pick plus more money to play with than three starting corners, when I really think both Chykie and Danny can do just fine as the nickel corner if it comes to that.
[/quote]
I hear you. I think he's saying that what if Jimmy tears an ACL? Or Webb has turf toe again? Not trying to jinx us, so don't kill me haha. I'm just saying I think that's what he means. Do you trust Chykie being across from Webb or Smith? Or even Gorrer?

I think that's his point, anyway. Who knows. OTAs & camp could do wonders for those guys.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1331610398' post='1019477']
I hear you. I think he's saying that what if Jimmy tears an ACL? Or Webb has turf toe again? Not trying to jinx us, so don't kill me haha. I'm just saying I think that's what he means. Do you trust Chykie being across from Webb or Smith? Or even Gorrer?

I think that's his point, anyway. Who knows. OTAs & camp could do wonders for those guys.
[/quote]

I understand, and that's the risk we have to take. But to me, it's also about "do we pay Cary and Lardarius and risk losing Grubbs? Do we pay all three and not get anything else in FA? Does paying a player who may be a third-stringer next season make sense when it might be the deepest position on your team, and especially when there are a lot of teams out there who might be willing to part with a second round pick for him?" To me, I'd rather have the pick than Cary, and here's why - by having 2 second round picks, we might be able to find 2 very good players in the round to take care of 2 big needs. For instance, Tampa Bay is in dire need of cornerbacks and they pick 4th in every round. Don't you think they might give up pick 36 for 27 year old Cary Williams rather than hope a guy falls to them? Or a team like Minnesota who also picks high? Or Carolina, who was like dead last in PD? Those are all teams picking in the top ten of the second round. Imagine, first round Peter Konz, early second Mike Adams, late second Ronnell Lewis. Or first round Donte Hightower, second round Reuben Randall Mychal Kendricks. I'm not saying Cary isn't a great player, I'm only speculating that there is a chance we might be able to use an asset at a position where we have a lot of depth (CB) and turn it into a good young player at a place of need (like O-line or pass rusher or ILB).

Also, I look at the second round tender as a move to entice suitors. We're talking about a passing league where people are now coveting corners and pass rushers. Suddenly you have one of the corners of a top shutdown duo last year dangling in front of you, and you only have to give up a second round pick? And it helps that he's 6'1", a bigger guy, when there are a lot of bigger receivers in the league and coming into the league. I think the FO gave Cary a tender like that because they knew a team would be more likely to give up the second rounder for Cary than the first for Lardarius, and they are okay with it.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1331611166' post='1019491']

I understand, and that's the risk we have to take. But to me, it's also about "do we pay Cary and Lardarius and risk losing Grubbs? Do we pay all three and not get anything else in FA? Does paying a player who may be a third-stringer next season make sense when it might be the deepest position on your team, and especially when there are a lot of teams out there who might be willing to part with a second round pick for him?" To me, I'd rather have the pick than Cary, and here's why - by having 2 second round picks, we might be able to find 2 very good players in the round to take care of 2 big needs. For instance, Tampa Bay is in dire need of cornerbacks and they pick 4th in every round. Don't you think they might give up pick 36 for 27 year old Cary Williams rather than hope a guy falls to them? Or a team like Minnesota who also picks high? Or Carolina, who was like dead last in PD? Those are all teams picking in the top ten of the second round. Imagine, first round Peter Konz, early second Mike Adams, late second Ronnell Lewis. Or first round Donte Hightower, second round Reuben Randall Mychal Kendricks. I'm not saying Cary isn't a great player, I'm only speculating that there is a chance we might be able to use an asset at a position where we have a lot of depth (CB) and turn it into a good young player at a place of need (like O-line or pass rusher or ILB).

Also, I look at the second round tender as a move to entice suitors. We're talking about a passing league where people are now coveting corners and pass rushers. Suddenly you have one of the corners of a top shutdown duo last year dangling in front of you, and you only have to give up a second round pick? And it helps that he's 6'1", a bigger guy, when there are a lot of bigger receivers in the league and coming into the league. I think the FO gave Cary a tender like that because they knew a team would be more likely to give up the second rounder for Cary than the first for Lardarius, and they are okay with it.
[/quote]
Again, I hear you. I'm on the fence here. I'm not really taking a side in this argument because I am really torn. I agree on all counts. I don't think a team like Tampa bay would give us their 2nd for Williams, but if they did I would definitely not miss Cary.

As for your picks, I'd rather we go in other directions but I get your point and agree with you to a certain extent. Again, I am very torn on this subject. I agree that the 2nd round tender is a sign that we would listen to offers. Webb's is a clear indication that we plan to keep him here in Baltimore. We also can't pay Williams, Webb, & Smith big money. Between the three, Cary is the odd-man out for me. Also, I really like Gorrer & I think Chykie could be very good.

In short, I won't be upset either way. We benefit by losing Williams for a 2nd round pick, but then again we are hurt because we want to win the Super Bowl, and losing him would hurt our depth. Then again, if we trade him now we get something, unlike next year when he probably walks because we can't pay him & Webb and Webb is above him, clearly.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1331612530' post='1019506']
Again, I hear you. I'm on the fence here. I'm not really taking a side in this argument because I am really torn. I agree on all counts. I don't think a team like Tampa bay would give us their 2nd for Williams, but if they did I would definitely not miss Cary.

As for your picks, I'd rather we go in other directions but I get your point and agree with you to a certain extent. Again, I am very torn on this subject. I agree that the 2nd round tender is a sign that we would listen to offers. Webb's is a clear indication that we plan to keep him here in Baltimore. We also can't pay Williams, Webb, & Smith big money. Between the three, Cary is the odd-man out for me. Also, I really like Gorrer & I think Chykie could be very good.

In short, I won't be upset either way. We benefit by losing Williams for a 2nd round pick, but then again we are hurt because we want to win the Super Bowl, and losing him would hurt our depth. Then again, if we trade him now we get something, unlike next year [b]when he probably walks[/b] because we can't pay him & Webb and Webb is above him, clearly.
[/quote]

That's what I'm thinking. I really think the FO knows keeping Cary beyond next year is going to be difficult. I really feel like they've always done this, tried to draft a player the year BEFORE they lose someone - i.e. Gaither in 2007, Odgen's last season, Heap in 2001, Shannon's last season as a Raven, Joe with Kyle Boller still here - the plan was originally to have Joe sit at least his entire first season, I believe, then injuries forced him into starting. I think they drafted Jimmy to allow him to sit and learn, then tendered Cary to entice a team in need to give up a second rounder for him.

[Purple Punishment]

Good thing the Skins and Cowboys gave us an extra 1.6M of cap this year!!

[gabefergy]

I don't think any team is going to give Cary a big offer anyways, so its probably a moot point.

[codizzle]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331581159' post='1018878']

piss off CO lol.. this picture pops up in almost every thread haha
[/quote]
Ha did it just for u

[Bazooka Joe]

I could see a team like the Rams wanting Cary. But I think the Rams go after Webb.