If The Pats Go For Webb

[display name]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' timestamp='1331394789' post='1017498']
Now, I wood take a second for Carrie Willims n/a hart beet.
[/quote]
Carrie?

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' timestamp='1331359272' post='1017333']

It gives the organization a feeler on what they think he should be paid. Say if the Pats want to sign him on for X amount, the Ravens can match that amount rather than overpay him by a larger margin (i.e. Foxworth). Smart move especially when the cap space amount has not been released yet. The FO has a lot of work to do with signing other players. Let another team do the work, then worry about matching.

Besides he knows he's wanted here and his performance has dictated that.

[u][b]Yeah I know we all want him signed on, but you gotta remember this is a pain staking process[/b][/u].
[/quote]

true!

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1331384934' post='1017425']
[u][b]You seem to be viewing the Tender as a slap in face[/b][/u].... But the tender is basically a temporary deal for a highly coveted Restricted Free Agent [u][b]the tender is designed to be a scare tactic to other teams to prevent them from pursuing RFAs[/b][/u].

Obviously the team would like to work out a long term deal for 5 years, but Webb just had an excellent season and was a 3rd Round pick ( hasn't had the big contract yet ). And although he didn't make the Pro bowl his agent can easily argue the point that Webb played on a Pro Bowl level and deserve at least an average salary comparable to the other CBs that went to the Pro bowl, the Agent could lobby for a Top CB contract by getting contract near the average of Top 5 CB contracts which would be really steep.

The Tender just like the Franchise Tag is a tool used to extend negotiations between the Team and player w/ agent and also a tool [u][b]to hopefully prevent other teams from pursuing them [/b][/u]until the Ravens can make a deal or at least attempt to make several deals that they feel is fair market value.
[/quote]

naw! i clearly understand the purpose of a tender bruh! lol! but, it doesn't always prevent teams from pursuing players. as you mentoned, it is a "tactic" and those can backfire at times. hopefully, this one doesn't! lol!

~Mili

[SpearSrai]

The Patriots may make an offer, but Webb isn't going anywhere.

No solid organization like the Pats is going to make an offer that we can't match. If it were a team with a history of overpaying, I would be more concerned.

[redrum52]

If the patriots go for Webb we tell Pollard to go for Brady.

[SpearSrai]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1331401015' post='1017564']
If the patriots go for Webb we tell Pollard to go for Brady.
[/quote]

TBH, Pollard was already going for Brady.

Now if only Ray had slapped $10,000 down on the table before the playoff game...

(and for the record, word on the street is that Gronk was only worth $2,500)

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='SpearSrai' timestamp='1331401887' post='1017583']

TBH, Pollard was already going for Brady.

Now if only Ray had slapped $10,000 down on the table before the playoff game...

(and for the record, word on the street is that Gronk was only worth $2,500)
[/quote]
yea to us, the giants trebled that

[Bazooka Joe]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1331396386' post='1017510']

Carrie?
[/quote]

Yeah. LOL! We could use the extra second rounder to draft a Centre.

[RavenousBG]

I think we should play it safe and sign him long term now. I have been thinking about it for a while now. We only talk about the Pats because they have two ones. The Browns have two ones and they now are out of the RG3 sweeptakes for the most part. They want another young CB. If I need a CB and I saw what Webb has done for the Ravens, I would pick him rather than some green kid out of college. He will probably give you a good 5 to 7 years at CB and then maybe move to Safety. I may not give up a top ten number one but anywhere from 16 on down is feasible. 20 on down, is good value for a potentially multi-pro bowl CB in a passing league.

Please lock this kid up now. He's the next great Ravens defender.

[arnie_uk]

we dont have the money to lock him up plain and simple, if someone bids us and frontloads a contract and we keep him, Your going to have to get on the phone to ray and ed and ask them to take a pay cut..

and for the record you have to give up your own pick, not one traded for, so the browns wont be giving us the 4th pick

[RavenousBG]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1331508312' post='1018279']
we dont have the money to lock him up plain and simple, if someone bids us and frontloads a contract and we keep him, Your going to have to get on the phone to ray and ed and ask them to take a pay cut..

and for the record you have to give up your own pick, not one traded for, so the browns wont be giving us the 4th pick


[/quote]Sure we do if we make the offer now. It's about priorities. Of course you have to let something go. McClain would be an impossibility. Maybe Grubbs also but it already seems that they want to test the market. That pretty much means that they are going to go. Grubbs for sure. Since they don't want to sign now, push the deal at Webb who may want to sign long term. Trying to sign him next year if he has another great year or an even better one than this past one would be costly and maybe impossible. We could sign him if we make it a priority.

[Bazooka Joe]

It just wouldn't shock me if some team with good cap space offers Webb a ridiculous contract we couldn't match.

I hope It's a NFC team with a first round pick in the low mid round.

[Bazooka Joe]

It just wouldn't shock me if some team with good cap space offers Webb a ridiculous contract we couldn't match.

I hope It's a NFC team with a first round pick in the low mid round.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' timestamp='1331514862' post='1018344']
It just wouldn't shock me if some team with good cap space offers Webb a ridiculous contract we couldn't match.

I hope It's a NFC team with a first round pick in the low mid round.
[/quote]
Tampa Bay anyone???? (or we don't lose Webb at all)

[cobrajet]

[quote name='harfordravenfan' timestamp='1331313544' post='1016576']
Agreed, hopefully oz has already worked out a plan in case it happens. Just have a few players ready to restucture their contracts to open up the cap space if needed. Hell, I'd make cuts to keep Webb here.
[/quote]
Whatever it takes, we better keep him here. in my book he is top priority!

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='RavenousBG' timestamp='1331509786' post='1018291']
Sure we do if we make the offer now. It's about priorities. Of course you have to let something go. McClain would be an impossibility. Maybe Grubbs also but it already seems that they want to test the market. That pretty much means that they are going to go. Grubbs for sure. Since they don't want to sign now, push the deal at Webb who may want to sign long term. Trying to sign him next year if he has another great year or an even better one than this past one would be costly and maybe impossible. We could sign him if we make it a priority.
[/quote]
we have 6 mil cap space, we have to sign draft picks, we need to add a few depth players, tell me where we have the money to sign webb longterm without getting RR of the tag

[Alexir]

I will be sick to my stomach if we lose Webb. If we do lose him, I will be really ticked off at Ozzie and company for tagging a running back over throwing a contract at a franchise shutdown corner.

[dirtybird10]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' timestamp='1331514898' post='1018345']
It just wouldn't shock me if some team with good cap space offers Webb a ridiculous contract we couldn't match.

I hope It's a NFC team with a first round pick in the low mid round.
[/quote]
Thats about the only way this wouldn't absolutely kill me. If we got a low/mid round 1st that would be pretty damn sweet. Although thats not happening, as a early round pick is way too valuable.

[Alexir]

Draft picks are overrated when it comes to a young, proven shutdown corner. So rare to have one pan out

[GTRavens]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1331672252' post='1020151']
Draft picks are overrated when it comes to a young, proven shutdown corner. So rare to have one pan out
[/quote]

What isn't rare is to have one pan out, then never have a season like that again. Draft picks are almost never overrated under any circumstances, and while I think Webb is the real deal there's still a level of risk involved with signing him to a long term deal.

[rmw10]

[quote name='GTRavens' timestamp='1331674406' post='1020288']

What isn't rare is to have one pan out, then never have a season like that again. Draft picks are almost never overrated under any circumstances, and while I think Webb is the real deal there's still a level of risk involved with signing him to a long term deal.
[/quote]

Draft picks are never overrated? Tell that to more than half of the 1st rounders ever drafted. who have never lived up to their expectations...

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1331674657' post='1020306']

Draft picks are never overrated? Tell that to more than half of the 1st rounders ever drafted. who have never lived up to their expectations...
[/quote]

Yes, but how many of those first rounders were drafted by the Baltimore Ravens? Of all our first rounders, maybe Travis Taylor and Kyle Boller were complete busts. Mark Clayton and Michael Oher (so far) have been average players at best. The rest - 3 guaranteed HOFers, 7 other Pro Bowlers, Flacco who I think is on the verge of ascending, and Jimmy Smith who still has huge upside. When taking that into account, you have to say "Well if a team in the top 10 or top 15 came after Webb, do we trust the FO to make the trade and find some serious value players, impact players". I think it's more likely that a team takes Cary and we get a second round pick in return, but if a team were to take Lardarius (not that I want it to happen, but other teams can pay more than we can currently, and who knows what motivates people), then I trust the front office has a plan in mind.

[chris14]

Ozzie may be the best GM in football. Relax people, he knows what he's doing.

[rmw10]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1331675075' post='1020331']

Yes, but how many of those first rounders were drafted by the Baltimore Ravens? Of all our first rounders, maybe Travis Taylor and Kyle Boller were complete busts. Mark Clayton and Michael Oher (so far) have been average players at best. The rest - 3 guaranteed HOFers, 7 other Pro Bowlers, Flacco who I think is on the verge of ascending, and Jimmy Smith who still has huge upside. When taking that into account, you have to say "Well if a team in the top 10 or top 15 came after Webb, do we trust the FO to make the trade and find some serious value players, impact players". I think it's more likely that a team takes Cary and we get a second round pick in return, but if a team were to take Lardarius (not that I want it to happen, but other teams can pay more than we can currently, and who knows what motivates people), then I trust the front office has a plan in mind.
[/quote]

No doubt the Ravens had success, but to say that draft picks are rarely overrated is just plain wrong.

To address your other point, I don't want to see Webb go at all. I wouldn't be too terribly upset if someone put an offer in on Cary, but I'd still like to keep him. I trust that the front office would make up for the loss of Webb if that were to happen, but I'd much rather have Webb than the uncertainty of a draft pick.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1331675528' post='1020370']

No doubt the Ravens had success, but to say that draft picks are rarely overrated is just plain wrong.

To address your other point, I don't want to see Webb go at all. I wouldn't be too terribly upset if someone put an offer in on Cary, but I'd still like to keep him. I trust that the front office would make up for the loss of Webb if that were to happen, but I'd much rather have Webb than the uncertainty of a draft pick.
[/quote]

Nobody wants to see Webb go, but the fact is there are teams with a lot more money than us who could give Webb a contract we just can't match. I didn't want Bart Scott or AD to go when they left, but they did. And I'm not saying that a lot of draft picks are rarely overrated, I'm saying that while a lot of teams miss, the Ravens under Ozzie Newsome have rarely done so, therefore IF a team ponied up a lot of money for Webb and we just couldn't match it, receiving a first round pick as a consolation prize is not entirely a bad thing. I happen to think Webb is our most important free agent this offseason, but he's still just one player, and I don't believe in overpaying any player, which we might have to if some fool team with a lot of money gave Webb a huge offer sheet.

But like I said, I feel the FO tendered Cary as a second rounder to MAKE him the more attractive CB. He had a great season, too, and I think a team looking for a CB is more likely to give up a second rounder than a first. I believe the front office is hoping that if we DO lose one of our corners, it will be Cary since he will be cheaper in terms of a contract and the draft pick a team would have to give up.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1331675862' post='1020396']

Nobody wants to see Webb go, but the fact is there are teams with a lot more money than us who could give Webb a contract we just can't match. I didn't want Bart Scott or AD to go when they left, but they did. And I'm not saying that a lot of draft picks are rarely overrated, I'm saying that while a lot of teams miss, the Ravens under Ozzie Newsome have rarely done so, therefore IF a team ponied up a lot of money for Webb and we just couldn't match it, receiving a first round pick as a consolation prize is not entirely a bad thing. I happen to think Webb is our most important free agent this offseason, but he's still just one player, and I don't believe in overpaying any player, which we might have to if some fool team with a lot of money gave Webb a huge offer sheet.

But like I said, I feel the FO tendered Cary as a second rounder to MAKE him the more attractive CB. He had a great season, too, and I think a team looking for a CB is more likely to give up a second rounder than a first. I believe the front office is hoping that if we DO lose one of our corners, it will be Cary since he will be cheaper in terms of a contract and the draft pick a team would have to give up.
[/quote]
I thought they tendered Cary with a 1st?

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1331679849' post='1020562']
I thought they tendered Cary with a 1st?
[/quote]

Aaron Wilson said first for Webb, second for Cary and Ellerbe.

[url="http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/blogs/sports/ravens/ravens-give-first-round-second-round-tender-to-webb-williams/article_a1362c10-6c8d-11e1-b4a1-001871e3ce6c.html"]http://www.carrollco...1871e3ce6c.html[/url]

Again, I think a second round tender is "lowballing" for a starting CB who had a season like Cary did last year. Which is why I believe if a CB of ours is poached, it will be Cary.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1331680195' post='1020572']

Aaron Wilson said first for Webb, second for Cary and Ellerbe.

[url="http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/blogs/sports/ravens/ravens-give-first-round-second-round-tender-to-webb-williams/article_a1362c10-6c8d-11e1-b4a1-001871e3ce6c.html"]http://www.carrollco...1871e3ce6c.html[/url]

Again, I think a second round tender is "lowballing" for a starting CB who had a season like Cary did last year. Which is why I believe if a CB of ours is poached, it will be Cary.
[/quote]
Good call, the logic is sound too. But teams may be wary of Cary (ha!) because he's only had one legit season under his belt and he;s already 27 or 28 I think. However, Pagano could be the guy who knows Cary's true worth and snatch him up. I'd have no problem with letting Gorrer play in the nickel on the outside.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1331680408' post='1020578']
Good call, the logic is sound too. But teams may be wary of Cary (ha!) because [b]he's only had one legit season [/b]under his belt and he;s already 27 or 28 I think. However, Pagano could be the guy who knows Cary's true worth and snatch him up. I'd have no problem with letting Gorrer play in the nickel on the outside.
[/quote]

Same could be said for Lardarius. He started 4 games in 09, 0 in 10, and 15 last year. Webb has started 19 games, Cary 17. I think the deciding factors, if a guy takes one, will be 1) will you give up a first round pick for Webb, or a second for Williams (i.e., the Bucs aren't giving up a top 10 first round pick for Webb, but they might give up a top 10 second round pick for Williams), and 2) as dumb as it sounds, Williams has 3 inches on Webb, and some team may covet a taller corner.

[SuRihtanil]

I don't think anyone will give up a first rounder for Webb. I am not saying Webb sucks but Brandon Marshall was traded for a 3rd one pick. I think Webb at round 1? No one will give that up, now if he was a 2nd round MAYBE, but the FA pool has a few good CBs right now.

[AsianRice]

Just came back from vacation, I hope Ozzie is going to use his wand this time to keep Webb cuz Webb is too important as the most versatile corner I've seen for a long time to let go.

Lets lock him up pls and move on the the next priority on the list.....