Ravens' Update Salary Cap Status

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1329731718' post='997794']
no way they gonna let McClain go. unlike a few guys on this forum our coaches know very well that he is a very good MLB. they put a lot of work in him and they liked what he did when ray was down. they said it during the season that he will be here for a long time.

he will be the man in the middle when ray is gone. he will nowhere near the next ray lewis. but there isn´t a next ray lewis in the nfl. i cannot see any of the mlbs being the next ray. willis is the closest to ray but even he is a step behind. ray means much more for our franchise than being just a player....

there was this article on nfl.com about the cap situation next season and if i understand it correctly there will be more cap space due to a new TV contract (or any other contract). so there is a possibility to structure the contracts in a way that we can resign any of our players...
[/quote]

To quote the million dollar man.....clears throat ......money money money moneyyyyyy....

Man some team will back up that brinks truck cause a lot of 4-3 teams need MLB like McClain

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1329731718' post='997794']
no way they gonna let McClain go. unlike a few guys on this forum our coaches know very well that he is a very good MLB. they put a lot of work in him and they liked what he did when ray was down. they said it during the season that he will be here for a long time.

he will be the man in the middle when ray is gone. he will nowhere near the next ray lewis. but there isn´t a next ray lewis in the nfl. i cannot see any of the mlbs being the next ray. willis is the closest to ray but even he is a step behind. ray means much more for our franchise than being just a player....

there was this article on nfl.com about the cap situation next season and if i understand it correctly there will be more cap space due to a new TV contract (or any other contract). so there is a possibility to structure the contracts in a way that we can resign any of our players...
[/quote]

Don't forget that Ozzie operates primarily on a "right player, right price" mentality. It's very plausible that McClain gets interest from other teams which could drive his price higher than we're willing to pay.

[Bazooka Joe]

The only guys I'd like to see back are Nakamura and AYENBADEJO.

JJ is an underrated player, but I'd let him test the market. He older and I doubt anyone is offering him or even Redding big money.

Jameel McClain can be replaced in the draft. He was a fine player, but I wouldn't build a defense around him. He'll be overpaid.

Ben Grubbs can be replaced in the draft and Gurode can replace Birk.

So in all, I'd bring back

Gurode
Nakamura
AYENBADEJO

[berad]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1329734663' post='997796']
It would help if we drafted players with the potential to become starters instead of kick returners and special teams linebackers.
[/quote]

When's the last time the Ravens have done either? David Reed? He was supposed to be better.

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1329746669' post='997849']
Don't forget that Ozzie operates primarily on a "right player, right price" mentality. It's very plausible that McClain gets interest from other teams which could drive his price higher than we're willing to pay.
[/quote]

I think this is the case, McClain is a good LB and does his job well but I don't think keeping him is all that urgent.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1329748610' post='997859']

When's the last time the Ravens have done either? David Reed? He was supposed to be better.
[/quote]


Not to mention that he was a 5th round pick. I guess every player drafted has the "potential" to be a starter, but the odds decrease greatly with lower round picks. Shockingly, sometimes all you can hope for is for a player drafted there to end up as a ST player.

[berad]

[quote name='B-more Ravor' timestamp='1329752265' post='997903']
Not to mention that he was a 5th round pick. I guess every player drafted has the "potential" to be a starter, but the odds decrease greatly with lower round picks.
[/quote]

Yep, the only pure returner we've drafted in recent memory was Yamon Figurs and he was one of the best in the NFL until...

[Gordo52]

I will miss McClain. He did great for us when Ray was injured, he and Suggs really stepped up for our defense. I'm excited to follow him where ever he goes. Im almost certain another team will sign him. Unless of course Ozzie thinks its a need, and doesnt expect to draft a MLB this year.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1329748610' post='997859']

When's the last time the Ravens have done either? David Reed? He was supposed to be better.

[/quote]

When was the last time our backup linebackers were given the opportunity to play outside of special teams? guys like Prescott Burgess, Edgar Jones, Jason Phillips etc and how many receptions do Marcus Smith, Yamon Figurs, David Reed and Tandon Doss have? these guys are late picks/udfa and are never seen as more than special teamers, they're not even part of the rotation.

[berad]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1329776727' post='998341']
When was the last time our backup linebackers were given the opportunity to play outside of special teams? guys like Prescott Burgess, Edgar Jones, Jason Phillips etc and how many receptions do Marcus Smith, Yamon Figurs, David Reed and Tandon Doss have? these guys are late picks/udfa and are never seen as more than special teamers, they're not even part of the rotation.
[/quote]

ST is just a stepping stone to get playing time - if they were good enough, they'd be out there. Guys like Jameel McClain, Dannell Ellerbe, Brandon Ayanbadejo, Antwan Barnes, etc did their time in the purgatory of special teams before becoming regular members of the defense. Paul Kruger didn't even play on special teams but he eventually made it into the defensive rotation.

Same goes for the WR. Figurs was pretty much purely a returner, he could've developed into a WR but oh well. Reed, Smith, Justin Harper, Demetrius Williams, Doss, etc didn't/haven't made it. But, hey, a guy like LaQuan Williams impressed the coaches so much that he earned a decent amount of PT after *gasp* doing some work on special teams. Remember Devard Darling? 3rd round pick that looked like a career STer until he worked his way up the depth chart in 2007.

Special Teams are a necessary evil of the game, it may be a lot less glamorous than offense or defense but players can hone themselves there. It really boils down to what the athletes are showing in practice, if they were really that spectacular, they'd be on the field. Out of all the guys you mentioned, none of them has done anything with their other teams - except Antwan Barnes.

[rmw10]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1329776727' post='998341']

When was the last time our backup linebackers were given the opportunity to play outside of special teams? guys like Prescott Burgess, Edgar Jones, Jason Phillips etc and how many receptions do Marcus Smith, Yamon Figurs, David Reed and Tandon Doss have? these guys are late picks/udfa and are never seen as more than special teamers, they're not even part of the rotation.
[/quote]

Marcus Smith - late round pick, hands of stone
Yamon Figurs - I'll give you this one, since he was drafted to be KR primarily
David Reed - late round pick, given the opportunity, but didn't capitalize due to injuries/drops in preseason
Tandon Doss - only been on the team 1 year, give him time

Edgar Jones - switched positions all over, UDFA who played solid
Jason Phillips - late round pick again, didn't capitalize and lost to 2 UDFAs
Prescott Burgess - another late round pick, never really had a position, great ST guy though

These are all late round picks for the most part. Half of the guys drafted this late don't make other team's rosters. We got some brilliant ST guys out of some late round picks. Not everyone is a starter. You hit some. You miss some.

[Ravenseconbeast]

MUST FA's

Lardarius Webb
Ray Rice
Ben Grubbs
Jameel McClain
Cary Williams

If any of these players are let go, the production value in each position will drop significantly imo.

Ozzie, please find a way and get something going.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1329777479' post='998353']

ST is just a stepping stone to get playing time - if they were good enough, they'd be out there. Guys like Jameel McClain, Dannell Ellerbe, Brandon Ayanbadejo, Antwan Barnes, etc did their time in the purgatory of special teams before becoming regular members of the defense. Paul Kruger didn't even play on special teams but he eventually made it into the defensive rotation.

Same goes for the WR. Figurs was pretty much purely a returner, he could've developed into a WR but oh well. Reed, Smith, Justin Harper, Demetrius Williams, Doss, etc didn't/haven't made it. But, hey, a guy like LaQuan Williams impressed the coaches so much that he earned a decent amount of PT after *gasp* doing some work on special teams. Remember Devard Darling? 3rd round pick that looked like a career STer until he worked his way up the depth chart in 2007.

Special Teams are a necessary evil of the game, it may be a lot less glamorous than offense or defense but players can hone themselves there. It really boils down to what the athletes are showing in practice, if they were really that spectacular, they'd be on the field. Out of all the guys you mentioned, none of them has done anything with their other teams - except Antwan Barnes.
[/quote]

It's not a stepping stone, some of these linebackers are a few years from 30 and have no defensive snaps. Edgar Jones and Prescott Burgess are beasts on ST and have been for years. It's hard to show you what you can do when you have no opportunities.

[berad]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1329778887' post='998379']
It's not a stepping stone, some of these linebackers are a few years from 30 and have no defensive snaps. Edgar Jones and Prescott Burgess are beasts on ST and have been for years. It's hard to show you what you can do when you have no opportunities.
[/quote]

Burgess and Jones were a seventh rounder and UDFA, respectively. They've been on the team for a few years, now, if they had some hidden potential they would have shown it by now. They do get opportunities, just not on gameday - there's a difference. Cary Williams earned his starting job out of the blue by having an excellent training camp yet having 0 prior experience on gameday D.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1329779125' post='998386']

Burgess and Jones were a seventh rounder and UDFA, respectively. They've been on the team for a few years, now, if they had some hidden potential they would have shown it by now. They do get opportunities, just not on gameday - there's a difference. Cary Williams earned his starting job out of the blue by having an excellent training camp yet having 0 prior experience on gameday D.
[/quote]
Bingo, we dont see them in TC, Off season drills, practice etc. but they get plenty of opps behind closed doors to shine, Cary being a perfecr Example, they also get preseason and the guys you mentioned obviously couldnt cut it on the defense/offense but are good enough for ST to hang around

[Ravens4Real]

With tagging Rice and all of the $8 Mill we are going to have to give him guaranteed, I do not see any way we can keep Grubbs. The only reason I think the Ravens wanted to even try and get Rice's contract done was to be able to put the tag on Grubbs. Now with that looking like it isn't going to happen, I honestly dont see how we can afford Grubbs.

He is going to want more than Yanda. I don't see a way how the Ravens keep him.

[rmw10]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1329778887' post='998379']

It's not a stepping stone, some of these linebackers are a few years from 30 and have no defensive snaps. Edgar Jones and Prescott Burgess are beasts on ST and have been for years. It's hard to show you what you can do when you have no opportunities.
[/quote]

There's a reason Burgess doesn't have a team.

There's also a reason why Edgar Jones has switched from LB to DE to TE back to LB/DE

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1329779125' post='998386']

Burgess and Jones were a seventh rounder and UDFA, respectively. They've been on the team for a few years, now, if they had some hidden potential they would have shown it by now. They do get opportunities, just not on gameday - there's a difference.[b] Cary Williams earned his starting job out of the blue [/b]by having an excellent training camp yet having 0 prior experience on gameday D.
[/quote]

An opportunity he would never have received if Foxy and Carr were healthy, Jimmy Smiths injury just solidified his starting role.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1329781077' post='998427']

An opportunity he would never have received if Foxy and Carr were healthy, Jimmy Smiths injury just solidified his starting role.
[/quote]
Foxy and Carr where healthy at the beginning, well carr def was, Cary played in Preseason and shined, so earned the starting role above fox (he played in week 2 def so i think he was fit) above carr, above jimmy. He earned it through preseason and TC. Like all the other fringe guys have to. Look at Gorrer (who???) he eanred time nickel and diming through doing well at practice initally, then played well in limited time, and by the end of the season was ahead of Carr on the Depth chart

[berad]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1329781077' post='998427']
An opportunity he would never have received if Foxy and Carr were healthy, Jimmy Smiths injury just solidified his starting role.
[/quote]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1329781284' post='998431']
Foxy and Carr where healthy at the beginning, well carr def was, Cary played in Preseason and shined, so earned the starting role above fox (he played in week 2 def so i think he was fit) above carr, above jimmy. He earned it through preseason and TC. Like all the other fringe guys have to. Look at Gorrer (who???) he eanred time nickel and diming through doing well at practice initally, then played well in limited time, and by the end of the season was ahead of Carr on the Depth chart
[/quote]

What he said. Gorrer is a good example, too. I think he may have played more than Carr actually and he earned it...

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1329781518' post='998440']

What he said. Gorrer is a good example, too. I think he may have played more than Carr actually and he earned it...
[/quote]

Foxy was healthy? his knees were in worse shape than Lindsay Lohan, if he was a horse we would have taken him behind the shed and shot him. Carr was hurt all season and it showed.

Back on topic, this is getting a bit sidetracked.

[berad]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1329782429' post='998456']
Foxy was healthy? his knees were in worse shape than Lindsay Lohan, if he was a horse we would have taken him behind the shed and shot him. Carr was hurt all season and it showed.

Back on topic, this is getting a bit sidetracked.
[/quote]

I mean you brought it up but alright.

Speaking of Foxworth, we need to cut him - I wish he would retire so there wouldn't be dead money. He's getting paid way too much. I expect Carr back, we just signed him and it never hurts to have too many solid, experienced corners. Evans is most likely staying, I wish he would take a paycut but unlikely,

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1329783265' post='998479']

I mean you brought it up but alright.

Speaking of Foxworth, we need to cut him - I wish he would retire so there wouldn't be dead money. He's getting paid way too much. I expect Carr back, we just signed him and it never hurts to have too many solid, experienced corners. Evans is most likely staying, I wish he would take a paycut but unlikely,
[/quote]
if he retires you still carry the dead money, same as a trade, you cant get out of it iirc

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1329783265' post='998479']

I mean you brought it up but alright.

Speaking of Foxworth, we need to cut him - I wish he would retire so there wouldn't be dead money. He's getting paid way too much. I expect Carr back, we just signed him and it never hurts to have too many solid, experienced corners. Evans is most likely staying, I wish he would take a paycut but unlikely,
[/quote]

I wish one of the guys either Williams or Doss would have stepped up. It would have made the decision on Lee easy. It's hard for short to medium route guys to shine in Cam's offense

[berad]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1329783412' post='998483']
if he retires you still carry the dead money, same as a trade, you cant get out of it iirc
[/quote]

Really? I thought it's like any other career - "You're fired" = severance package, "I quit" = see ya. You're probably right, or I guess it depends on the contract, too. Maybe we can do an injury settlement?

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1329783513' post='998487']
I wish one of the guys either Williams or Doss would have stepped up. It would have made the decision on Lee easy. It's hard for short to medium route guys to shine in Cam's offense
[/quote]

Would have been nice, I still think the future is bright for LaQuan and Tandon - really liked them in the preseason and LaQuan made some plays in the regular season, too.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1329783977' post='998503']

Really? I thought it's like any other career - "You're fired" = severance package, "I quit" = see ya. You're probably right, or I guess it depends on the contract, too. Maybe we can do an injury settlement?



Would have been nice, I still think the future is bright for LaQuan and Tandon - really liked them in the preseason and LaQuan made some plays in the regular season, too.
[/quote]
thats what i thought too, if they retire (quit) is it fair we have to carry dead cap? but then Bmore Ravor, Brian McFarland that does all these updates on the cap, he said once its all the same, if i understood correctly. He pops in every now and then, maybe he could clear it up. What way does an injury settlement work?

I really really like Doss, he has sticky hands, and is great across the middle, i have high hopes of him being the next boldin in the league, possibly im dreaming though

[Moderator 3]

If the player quits/retires, the guaranteed portion of the contract still hits the cap UNLESS the player returns the bonus money. Some contracts are written to require the return of bonus money if the player does not finish out the contract. I think it's pretty rare to get any back. It's also pretty rare for a player to retire while under contract, though J.O. did.

[berad]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1329784587' post='998518']
thats what i thought too, if they retire (quit) is it fair we have to carry dead cap? but then Bmore Ravor, Brian McFarland that does all these updates on the cap, he said once its all the same, if i understood correctly. He pops in every now and then, maybe he could clear it up. [b]What way does an injury settlement work?[/b]

I really really like Doss, he has sticky hands, and is great across the middle, i have high hopes of him being the next boldin in the league, possibly im dreaming though
[/quote]

Only a hazy idea but I've heard the term used before. I think it has something to do with cutting a player outright instead of keeping them on IR. I guess that wouldn't apply to this point in the offseason, though.


[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1329785077' post='998533']
If the player quits/retires, the guaranteed portion of the contract still hits the cap UNLESS the player returns the bonus money. Some contracts are written to require the return of bonus money if the player does not finish out the contract. I think it's pretty rare to get any back. [b]It's also pretty rare for a player to retire while under contract, though J.O. did.[/b]
[/quote]

And Ricky. Thanks for the explanation!

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1329785077' post='998533']
If the player quits/retires, the guaranteed portion of the contract still hits the cap UNLESS the player returns the bonus money. Some contracts are written to require the return of bonus money if the player does not finish out the contract. I think it's pretty rare to get any back. It's also pretty rare for a player to retire while under contract, though J.O. did.
[/quote]
Clears it up pretty well, i thought you still carried the dead cap. TBH i wouldnt give it back if i didnt have to

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1329785090' post='998534']

Only a hazy idea but I've heard the term used before. I think it has something to do with cutting a player outright instead of keeping them on IR. I guess that wouldn't apply to this point in the offseason, though.




And Ricky. Thanks for the explanation!
[/quote]
Ricky hasnt actually filed his retirement papers yet, hes still on our books, that shows me he might be having doubts. Wouldnt you just fille them immediatly if you knew 100% you were done and moving on?

[organizedchaos007]

Couple things about FA in general:

Cap number this year is around 123 million. We are about 10 mil under the cap which isnt much right now. We will make a few cuts to free up space. Foxworth, Carr, and unfortunately JJ is gonna be out the door, a team will offer him better money than we can pay him.

I see us keeping zibby, naka will be gone and we will draft a safety.

We need to resign Cary Williams and draft a CB in the 4th/5th round.

McClain will be re-signed

Redding re-signed (hes earned his spot on this team and he will prob take an affordable deal to stay)

Grubbs is out the door (if burk retires Gurode will man the center position and we will draft a guard, if burk returns Andre can play guard), we cant re-sign him and worry about signing Joe long term, and franchising Rice (good thing tho, the tag on a RB is less than 8 Mil... good chance we do that 2 years in a row). Joe will be signed and will make around 12m/year.

Good thing about our cap situation and what we are dealing with is... TV money will boost salary cap starting next year, and we dont have to front load Joe's contract, we can pay him majority of his money year 2-4.

On a side note 1. Lets re-sign Leron McClain as a backup to rice, and can play FB if Vonte goes down. OR... Micheal Bush would also be a good fit for cheap.

Side note #2. Watch out for us stealing Wallace from PIT. They can either franchise him (9/10 mil for WR), OR place a high tag on him which teams that draft late will have no prob giving up a number 1 and offering more money than PIT can. They are way over the cap and dont have much room to maneuver. Either way it will be hard for them to keep him. We could give up our number one and pay him 6mil/year and hes ours. If that happens, bye evans.