Oher Or Reid To Guard?

[rmw10]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329526810' post='996766']


So you're basically saying that Oher is better than Chris Chester? Even if that is the case -- and it's not as cut and dried as you may think -- it really is saying nothing positive about Oher.

So Oher was injured against NE? What then was the excuse for giving up three sacks the previous week against HOU?
[/quote]

I'm just putting it into perspective. You're dogging the guy but look at what we had previously. I'm not claiming him to be the best RT to ever play the game, but he's not the worst like you're making it out to be. I just don't see what good moving him would do. We'd be taking a step back by getting rid of him. Give him some time at one position before we jump to conclusions. We saw what he was able to do his rookie year at RT. He obviously wasn't fit to be a LT, but by no means does that mean he's not a RT.

And if you read above, I did mention that he faltered in the playoffs. I said he played solid from week 7 onward up until the playoffs.

[flynismo]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1329527677' post='996774']

I'm just putting it into perspective. You're dogging the guy but look at what we had previously. I'm not claiming him to be the best RT to ever play the game, but he's not the worst like you're making it out to be. I just don't see what good moving him would do. We'd be taking a step back by getting rid of him. Give him some time at one position before we jump to conclusions. We saw what he was able to do his rookie year at RT. He obviously wasn't fit to be a LT, but by no means does that mean he's not a RT.

And if you read above, I did mention that he faltered in the playoffs. I said he played solid from week 7 onward up until the playoffs.
[/quote]


I'm not saying he is the worst. Just one of the worst; like the bottom 5 or so.

[rmw10]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329528191' post='996779']


I'm not saying he is the worst. Just one of the worst; like the bottom 5 or so.
[/quote]

Kareem McKenzie, Jeremy Trueblood, Barry Richardson, Marc Colombo, Jeromey Clary, Jammal Brown, Tony Pashos, etc. would all like to thank you for giving them much more credit than they deserve.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329513368' post='996600']
I assume you know my response to that? Other than the fact I would never claim switch hitting is even remotely the same thing as pivoting and sweeping as a tackle; the fact is that all offensive linemen are basically the football equvalent of a switch hitter.

What am I talking about?

I'm not 100% sure either, lol...bear with me.

In baseball, if you are right handed, then as a hitter almost all of your power and bat speed comes from the right side of your body. You push off with your right foot, pivot on your right hip, and your right arm is providing most of your bat speed, particularly at contact when you snap your wrists. There is very little incentive to make your left side stronger. Switch hitters are usually naturally ambidextrous.

Now, as for an OT.

Lets pretend I am Oher, and I am predominately right handed.

When I face a DE, I know that he could either be crashing to my right, to my left, or even straight at me. If I am strong on my right side of my body and weak on the left, it will only take 4 or 5 plays for the DE to notice that, and then guess what side he will be attacking the rest of the day?
So I have to be strong, period, to be able to handle that. Unlike a hitter in baseball, who just has to be strong on one side.


Now hold on, I just thought of something before I continue my little rant...

If Ogden really said that (and if you say he did, then he did), I'm willing to bet that he was left handed. Can anyone confirm or deny this for me??
[/quote]
Fly how about you just admit they got you on this topic, and leave it at that.

[ravensfan520]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329525254' post='996746']


sigh...I don't need to have played RT for the Ravens to see that Oher is horrible..
[/quote]

Oher is a good tackle he was in the running for a probowl this year... to use the analagies everyone uses when Flacco is spoken bad of... he plays OL in one the best defensive conferences in football and is holding his own quite well against them. Not many teams have to face Pittsburgh d or even the Browns and Bengals have strong D FRONTS twice a year and sometimes three.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329513368' post='996600']
I assume you know my response to that? Other than the fact I would never claim switch hitting is even remotely the same thing as pivoting and sweeping as a tackle; the fact is that all offensive linemen are basically the football equvalent of a switch hitter.

What am I talking about?

I'm not 100% sure either, lol...bear with me.

[b]In baseball, if you are right handed, then as a hitter almost all of your power and bat speed comes from the right side of your body. You push off with your right foot, pivot on your right hip, and your right arm is providing most of your bat speed, particularly at contact when you snap your wrists[/b]. There is very little incentive to make your left side stronger. Switch hitters are usually naturally ambidextrous.

Now, as for an OT.

Lets pretend I am Oher, and I am predominately right handed.

When I face a DE, I know that he could either be crashing to my right, to my left, or even straight at me. If I am strong on my right side of my body and weak on the left, it will only take 4 or 5 plays for the DE to notice that, and then guess what side he will be attacking the rest of the day?
So I have to be strong, period, to be able to handle that. Unlike a hitter in baseball, who just has to be strong on one side.


Now hold on, I just thought of something before I continue my little rant...

If Ogden really said that (and if you say he did, then he did), I'm willing to bet that he was left handed. Can anyone confirm or deny this for me??
[/quote]
Incredibly off-topic, but this isnt true. Most of the power generated by a right handed batter comes from the left arm/hand. That is the arm that is pulling the bat through the strike zone and the right hand is more of a guide. Well, the majority of the force comes from the legs...but I digress.

Back on topic...to me it would make the most sense to let Reid play at LG if need be. Oher has been a tackle his entire career and has better quickness and much more expereince than Reid. Not saying Reid cant be a good RT, but I would rather let Oher stay there for the time being. Didnt Reid also play some Guard in college? Not sure about that.

[CapoRocky]

I think that Oher will be fine at RT. I agree that signing Gurode and McKinnie will be a good idea for another year. Reid will be in there soon enough.

[The Raven]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329526196' post='996759']

Yeah, actually he was terrible. And I don't hate him. I realize that he is a media darling around here because of his movie and story, and saying he sucks is taboo, but well, he has sucked not just this year, but last year as well, which is why we pulled the plug on him at LT after just one season.
[/quote]

With you on this. Backup has arrived!

Oher was mediocre at best. He had a very up and down season with many downs. He didn't do very well at all containing the end on perimeter runs, couldn't get much push in the off-tackle game and he was routinely killed by speed rushers. He had great moments, but he had many more bad ones.

[flynismo]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1329534312' post='996831']
Incredibly off-topic, but this isnt true. Most of the power generated by a right handed batter comes from the left arm/hand. That is the arm that is pulling the bat through the strike zone and the right hand is more of a guide. Well, the majority of the force comes from the legs...but I digress.

Back on topic...to me it would make the most sense to let Reid play at LG if need be. Oher has been a tackle his entire career and has better quickness and much more expereince than Reid. Not saying Reid cant be a good RT, but I would rather let Oher stay there for the time being. Didnt Reid also play some Guard in college? Not sure about that.
[/quote]


Excuse me sir, but I said the right arm generates the bat speed, and power comes from the hips and legs

[flynismo]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1329540402' post='996860']
With you on this. Backup has arrived!
[/quote]


Jeez, what do I pay you guys for?? Thank god this wasn't an emergency, I'd have been dead by the time you arrived.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1329530307' post='996794']
Oher is a good tackle he was in the running for a probowl this year... to use the analagies everyone uses when Flacco is spoken bad of... he plays OL in one the best defensive conferences in football and is holding his own quite well against them. Not many teams have to face Pittsburgh d or even the Browns and Bengals have strong D FRONTS twice a year and sometimes three.
[/quote]

I wasn't going to respond to this, because I wanted to let your point stand uninterrupted, but when we make excuses for Flacco, it usually involves Oher's play lol...

Listen, Oher physically is an animal. But since we are talking about Flacco, I want to use him to make a point about Oher. I can name quite a few good and great defenses that Flacco has played well against. Now, when was the last time Oher played well against an upper tier DE? I'm sure it has happened a couple times, but for the most part, a good DE gives him more than he can handle. And that's probably my biggest issue with him. When you are drafted in the 1st round, you are drafted to play well against the best of the best. Oher has done the opposite of that.

I will never forgive him for making me look like a complete fool last year when I talked all kinds of smack to the ATL fans telling them how Oher was gonna wipe the field with Abraham!!

[flynismo]

What the heck is up with this forum lately? My posts either disappear, like a couple did in this thread, or they get double or triple posted!

[Radinho84]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329506013' post='996483']
pretty much. And things like that shouldn't be an issue for world class athletes..

For proof of that, consider that Oher played LT in college, and played pretty well the next year at RT for us.

Or look at how Yanda can play wherever we put him on the line. Even Gurode can switch between OG and C, although he isn't very good as a guard.
[/quote]
that is not fair. yanda is pretty much the very best oline player in the nfl. he is a frak. a monster i am so glad that he will be here for so long.

oher is a great run blocker. he is agressive. but he has huge problems against fast and tricky players. he bites on fake moves and he doesn´t trust his step back. otherwize he wouldn´t have that much false starts...

[Radinho84]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329552424' post='996897']

I wasn't going to respond to this, because I wanted to let your point stand uninterrupted, but when we make excuses for Flacco, it usually involves Oher's play lol...

[b]Listen, Oher physically is an animal. But since we are talking about Flacco, I want to use him to make a point about Oher. I can name quite a few good and great defenses that Flacco has played well against. Now, when was the last time Oher played well against an upper tier DE? I'm sure it has happened a couple times, but for the most part, a good DE gives him more than he can handle. And that's probably my biggest issue with him. When you are drafted in the 1st round, you are drafted to play well against the best of the best. Oher has done the opposite of that.[/b]

[b]I will never forgive him for making me look like a complete fool last year when I talked all kinds of smack to the ATL fans telling them how Oher was gonna wipe the field with Abraham!![/b]
[/quote]
exactly. especially the point about the first round. i think he hasn´t played like a first round tackle at all since he is here. well he was good at rt in his first year. but a rt isn´t drafted in the first round usually. as hard as it is: ozzy missed on that pick!

we all love oher. maybe because of sandra b. or whatever. but i don´t think that he is a pro bowl tackle and that is a problem!!!

[flynismo]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1329564504' post='996917']
that is not fair. yanda is pretty much the very best oline player in the nfl. he is a frak. a monster i am so glad that he will be here for so long.

oher is a great run blocker. he is agressive. but he has huge problems against fast and tricky players. he bites on fake moves and he doesn´t trust his step back. otherwize he wouldn´t have that much false starts...
[/quote]

I think by best you probably mean "versatile", so okay, maybe it isn't fair to compare to an OL drafted in the 3rd round lol...

But all I want to say is that has it occured to anyone that the reason we move Oher around is possibly due to him not playing well and establishing a role?
I'm not saying that is or isn't the case; presenting it as a possibility.

[Radinho84]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329564864' post='996920']

I think by best you probably mean "versatile", so okay, maybe it isn't fair to compare to an OL drafted in the 3rd round lol...

[b]But all I want to say is that has it occured to anyone that the reason we move Oher around is possibly due to him not playing well and establishing a role?[/b]
I'm not saying that is or isn't the case; presenting it as a possibility.
[/quote]
i get that. and i agree.
i think if he wasn´t a first round pick and hyped with the movie and stuff he wouldn´t get a new contract....

[flynismo]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1329565570' post='996925']
i get that. and i agree.
i think if he wasn´t a first round pick and hyped with the movie and stuff he wouldn´t get a new contract....
[/quote]


He may not get an extension next year anyway if he doesn't turn things around next season. I mean, after four years, we need to have seen some sort of progress, and he has done nothing but regress since his rookie season.

I'm pulling for him; he would be huge for us if he ever fulfilled his potential -- I just lost faith that it will happen.

Here's what I said about him prior to the 2009 draft --
[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/153735-draft-day-disasters-2009s-top-5-draft-day-busts"]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/153735-draft-day-disasters-2009s-top-5-draft-day-busts[/url]

has anything changed since then? That's what I mean when I say that he hasn't shown any progression or quelled any fears about him in the 3 years he has been here.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329566586' post='996932']


Here's what I said about him prior to the 2009 draft --
[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/153735-draft-day-disasters-2009s-top-5-draft-day-busts"]http://bleacherrepor...draft-day-busts[/url]

[/quote]
You really wrote that? If so thats really impressive.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1329569007' post='996936']
You really wrote that? If so thats really impressive.
[/quote]

Yup, I wrote that a few weeks before the draft. I had a more in depth article on Oher and a lot of other guys on another site, explaining why I felt he was a poor prospect.

If the lights ever turn on for him, he'd be an excellent player - probably a top 3 RT; and that potential will probably be the reason we hold on to him too long.

[ravensfan520]

I guess I am in the minority on Oher I have confidence like everyone else is confident about Flacco. But to point out that he struggles against fast de or great pass rushers can be said for just about every OL player to dogleg Oher is like when someone singles out Flacco for holding onto the ball to long and taking sacks that other players including his teammates point out. But that would be taboo to do.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1329589940' post='997056']I guess I am in the minority on Oher I have confidence like everyone else is confident about Flacco. But to point out that he struggles against fast de or great pass rushers can be said for just about every OL player to dogleg Oher is like when someone singles out Flacco for holding onto the ball to long and taking sacks that other players including his teammates point out. But that would be taboo to do.[/quote]


actually I had a thread about Oher a couple weeks ago, and put up a poll asking if we should trade him.
Last I checked almost 140 people voted, and about 55-60% of the people voted to keep him. I was actually surprised that so many people openly agreed with me, because Oher is so popular in Baltimore.

And trust me, if you ever turned on the radio or visit these forums during the season, you'd see that it is open season on Flacco all year long - it is anything but taboo to bash him!

[gabefergy]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329551558' post='996895']


Excuse me sir, but I said the right arm generates the bat speed, and power comes from the hips and legs [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]
[/quote]
That you did, and I agree with the power coming from legs, but the left arm/hand is more important for a right handed batter.

Look at Adrian Gonzalez, he is left handed, bats left as well, but he had a shoulder injury in his right arm that severely sapped his power.

[flynismo]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1329592094' post='997073']
That you did, and I agree with the power coming from legs, but the left arm/hand is more important for a right handed batter.

Look at Adrian Gonzalez, he is left handed, bats left as well, but he had a shoulder injury in his right arm that severely sapped his power.
[/quote]

I call shenanigans on Gonzalez, lol -- you're gonna lose power if you are basically hitting one handed! I think that both arms are equally important for power. As evidence, next time you are at a batting cage, try hitting the ball without snapping your wrists!!

I do think the left hand is more important for control though...by adjusting your stance and manipulating your left your mid-swing, you can place the ball wherever you want.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329592829' post='997076']

I call shenanigans on Gonzalez, lol -- you're gonna lose power if you are basically hitting one handed! I think that both arms are equally important for power. As evidence, next time you are at a batting cage, try hitting the ball without snapping your wrists!!

I do think the left hand is more important for control though...by adjusting your stance and manipulating your left your mid-swing, you can place the ball wherever you want.
[/quote]
Fair enough, lets just agree that batting is a completely different animal than switching from RT to LT or vice versa .

[flynismo]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1329596352' post='997092']
Fair enough, lets just agree that batting is a completely different animal than switching from RT to LT or vice versa .
[/quote]


haha, anything to shut me up!!

[ravensfan520]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329591598' post='997069']



actually I had a thread about Oher a couple weeks ago, and put up a poll asking if we should trade him.
Last I checked almost 140 people voted, and about 55-60% of the people voted to keep him. I was actually surprised that so many people openly agreed with me, because Oher is so popular in Baltimore.

And trust me, if you ever turned on the radio or visit these forums during the season, you'd see that it is open season on Flacco all year long - it is anything but taboo to bash him!
[/quote]

Then why does so many people start pulling stats from nowhere and discuss about how he is the franchise qb and that he could be the best only if we do this or that to help him...yada yada yada. But during the season when he plays bad forums light up about bring in taylor or we should have signed a veteran to pressure him into playing better. If someone tries to say anything about him now during a time when we are trying to extend his contract well then that person then is considered misinformed or dont know baltimore histroy etc... and now when it comes to signing him as an elite qb great or high average its forbidden to discuss his short comings and they place blame on someone else... the OL wr cam well you know the drill...

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1329618769' post='997224']

Then why does so many people start pulling stats from nowhere and discuss about how he is the franchise qb and that he could be the best only if we do this or that to help him...yada yada yada. But during the season when he plays bad forums light up about bring in taylor or we should have signed a veteran to pressure him into playing better. If someone tries to say anything about him now during a time when we are trying to extend his contract well then that person then is considered misinformed or dont know baltimore histroy etc... and now when it comes to signing him as an elite qb great or high average its forbidden to discuss his short comings and they place blame on someone else... the OL wr cam well you know the drill...[/quote]


yes, I def know the drill haha...

Honestly, the majority of the blame gets shifted because that's usually the case. Flacco makes mistakes, but they are rarely game changing ones. Then in comparison to the OL playing the way they do, and recievers dropping critical passes or refusing to get open it makes Flacco's mistakes seem even less significant.

And honestly, I think a lot of people are finally coming around and realizing how good Flacco is; he's not some game manager or mediocre player that a select few still try to portray him as.

[indianstick]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1329566586' post='996932'] He may not get an extension next year anyway if he doesn't turn things around next season. I mean, after four years, we need to have seen some sort of progress, and he has done nothing but regress since his rookie season. I'm pulling for him; he would be huge for us if he ever fulfilled his potential -- I just lost faith that it will happen. Here's what I said about him prior to the 2009 draft -- [url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/153735-draft-day-disasters-2009s-top-5-draft-day-busts"]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/153735-draft-day-disasters-2009s-top-5-draft-day-busts[/url] has anything changed since then? That's what I mean when I say that he hasn't shown any progression or quelled any fears about him in the 3 years he has been here.[/quote]

You were right on with all of your predictions and i agree that oher has regressed since his great rookie season where he looked like he could be a pro bowl RT or even a pro bowl LT. So the next year we moved him to LT at the start of training camp and the whole gaither thing happened..but in my opinion oher played great the whole year until the playoffs which is when we needed him the most. This past year i felt like he played pretty well at times and then had his stretches of misblocks, esp in the playoffs again. I like oher though and think he can be good and I voted to keep him in your poll thread because i feel like he can be a probowl offensive lineman, whether it is at RT, LT, LG or RG, he has the strength and atheleticsm to be a good lineman, he just needs to learn the position. I want to see how he does at RT next year, hopefully he can show a little progression so we can keep him there for years and possibly move him to LT. I don't know if the ravens would ever think of moving him at G, but if we need to and have better options at LT/RT then I don't see why we wouldn't give him a shot at G. A pro bowl guard is worthy of a first round pick, if that is what he becomes I would be happy.

[jrs034]

you cant just keep moving Oher around every year poor guy cant catch a break

[BloodRaven]

It's more than a weight thing, someone taller like Reid has longer levers and better length for tackle duty than Oher, but he just doesn't have Ohers foot speed. Also you don't really want anyone over 6'4" playing inside as leverage becomes an issue, you see it sometimes with Matt Birk and even an elite guard like Carl Nicks.