MERGED: Mike Wallace...

[AwakenTheDemon]

As I peruse Rotoworld this morning, I come across this little tidbit:

[quote]

NFL Network's Jason La Canfora agrees with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that the Steelers are "more likely" to place a first-round restricted tender on Mike Wallace, rather than franchise tag him.
Placing only the tender on Wallace would leave Pittsburgh open to being poached for its top wideout by teams willing to fork over a long-term contract and a first-round draft pick. One such club could be the division-rival Ravens, who draft 29th overall. The cap-strapped Steelers may see the monetary difference between the tender ($2.742 million) and tag ($9.6 million) as worth the risk.
[/quote]

Which led me to wonder what Raven fans would really think of this. No, this is not a "OMG! We need to go get Wallace! NOWZ!" or any other topic that is done to death any time a FA hits the market or is even rumored to hit the market. Because, let's face it, Wallace is the best thing PIttsburgh has going for it on offense, and needs to keep him.

But for arguments sake, let's say they do just tag him with a first round tender, would you be a fan of shipping off a first round pick to Pittsburgh and signing Wallace to a long term deal to land the dynamic player in Baltimore?

Speaking for myself, I'm torn. Wallace is one hell of a play maker, and definitely a difference maker. Boldin's getting older, (don't get me wrong, I love Anquan and am not knocking him), Evans is a question mark, and aside from Torrey, there's not much. We'd be essentially picking Mike Wallace with our 29th overall pick, and be setting ourselves up to have Mike Wallace and Torrey Smith as our receivers of the future, once Boldin's no longer around. While we do have other holes that need addressed (Center, Linebacker to name a few), we could very well snag a quality player further down the draft (Burfict is stock could be sliding). In that case, I really wouldn't mind. However, the move would be dictated by cap space, as Rice and Flacco should be the priority before money is spent on any free agent.

Long story short, as long as Rice and Flacco are taken care of, I'd be happy with that situation of sending a first to Pittsburgh and signing Wallace to a deal. [b]However,[/b] I do not see it happening. It's not too much of an Ozzie type move.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1329336530' post='994759']
As I peruse Rotoworld this morning, I come across this little tidbit:



Which led me to wonder what Raven fans would really think of this. No, this is not a "OMG! We need to go get Wallace! NOWZ!" or any other topic that is done to death any time a FA hits the market or is even rumored to hit the market. Because, let's face it, Wallace is the best thing PIttsburgh has going for it on offense, and needs to keep him.

But for arguments sake, let's say they do just tag him with a first round tender, would you be a fan of shipping off a first round pick to Pittsburgh and signing Wallace to a long term deal to land the dynamic player in Baltimore?
[/quote]
No and here is why

1. Wallace will be UFA next year I believe.
2.The Steelers despite their restructuring and cuts are still about 10 million over the cap. They should still be over the cap next year and thus not able to resign him to a decent deal compared to other teams. I don't know exactly how they restructured but I'm thinkin they backloaded some contracts which makes resignings in later years harder.
3. Sending an extra draft pick to a team in your division is never good. The steelers have proved they can find late round talent at receiver. I would never want to send them an extra first let them bolster weak spots on their team, and find an okay replacement for wallace later especially in a deep receiver draft.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1329337236' post='994771']
No and here is why

[b]1. Wallace will be UFA next year I believe.[/b]
2.The Steelers despite their restructuring and cuts are still about 10 million over the cap. They should still be over the cap next year and thus not able to resign him to a decent deal compared to other teams. I don't know exactly how they restructured but I'm thinkin they backloaded some contracts which makes resignings in later years harder.
3. Sending an extra draft pick to a team in your division is never good. The steelers have proved they can find late round talent at receiver. I would never want to send them an extra first let them bolster weak spots on their team, and find an okay replacement for wallace later especially in a deep receiver draft.
[/quote]

Hence why I, along with Rotoworld, said if anyone did pick him up, would need to sign him to a new contract.

Also, Pittsburgh is [i]not[/i] over the cap. They have very little room though, $506,000 and some change.

[gabefergy]

I wouldn't be against it, although Wallace is a punk. I think it would be awesome to put Pitt in the position to have to extend him this year when their salary cap is a mess. I would rather some other team made the offer though considering our lack of cap room as well.

[berad]

Not interested in Wallace. He's still a one-trick pony. Webb was right when he said Brown was the better receiver.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1329337374' post='994773'] Hence why I, along with Rotoworld, said if anyone did pick him up, would need to sign him to a new contract. Also, Pittsburgh is [i]not[/i] over the cap. They have very little room though, $506,000 and some change.[/quote]

First yes they are over the cap lol http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2012/02/13/late-for-work-213-afc-north-salary-cap-projections/
Now unless something big happened in the last 2-3 days that I missed they are still significantly over the cap

Signing Wallace to a new contract wouldnt matter as. The point I was making is that if we really wanted we could sign him in a year without strengthening the steelers.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1329337236' post='994771']

No and here is why

1. Wallace will be UFA next year I believe.
2.The Steelers despite their restructuring and cuts are still about 10 million over the cap. They should still be over the cap next year and thus not able to resign him to a decent deal compared to other teams. I don't know exactly how they restructured but I'm thinkin they backloaded some contracts which makes resignings in later years harder.
3. Sending an extra draft pick to a team in your division is never good. The steelers have proved they can find late round talent at receiver. I would never want to send them an extra first let them bolster weak spots on their team, and find an okay replacement for wallace later especially in a deep receiver draft.
[/quote]
Your 3rd point is a good one. If they were to let Wallace walk they might be in position to draft a stud prospect like Kendall Wright who could potentially fill Wallace's shoes without the huge cap hit.

[FerrariFan87]

No thanks, we have Mike Wallace in Torrey Smith... if you were talking about Megatron or someone like that, then that's a resounding yes.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1329338467' post='994793'] First yes they are over the cap lol [url="http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2012/02/13/late-for-work-213-afc-north-salary-cap-projections/"]http://blogs.baltimo...ap-projections/[/url] Now unless something big happened in the last 2-3 days that I missed they are still significantly over the cap Signing Wallace to a new contract wouldnt matter as. The point I was making is that if we really wanted we could sign him in a year without strengthening the steelers.[/quote]

I take it you're either overlooking the words "projections" and "estimate", or do not know the definition of said words.

[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/12/remaining-2011-cap-space-by-team/"]Remaining Cap Space By Team[/url]

That's not taking into account the salary from this year, but if you think Pittsburgh is really over by 10 million and going to stay over by 10 million, you're being absurd. Releasing Ward alone would clear four million, and they've been making moves all week to get that cap space (i.e. Harrison and Ben willing to renegotiate now), Pittsburgh's smarter than that.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1329338429' post='994791']
Not interested in Wallace. He's still a one-trick pony. Webb was right when he said Brown was the better receiver.
[/quote]
He's really not just a one-trick pony. He caught a large percentage of his passes in the short to intermediate range. Antonio Brown was actually more of the vertical threat (10-20 yard passes) in Pitt's offense.

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

I'd do it in a heartbeat. Torrey/Wallace gives me goosebumps.

[berad]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1329340532' post='994829']
He's really not just a one-trick pony. He caught a large percentage of his passes in the short to intermediate range. Antonio Brown was actually more of the vertical threat (10-20 yard passes) in Pitt's offense.
[/quote]

That could be from screens that Pittsburgh loved to run. I still think Brown is more of a complete and better receiver. Wallace has his speed and not much else. Brown has speed and a full route tree.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1329340428' post='994826']

I take it you're either overlooking the words "projections" and "estimate", or do not know the definition of said words.

[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/12/remaining-2011-cap-space-by-team/"]Remaining Cap Space By Team[/url]

That's not taking into account the salary from this year, but if you think Pittsburgh is really over by 10 million and going to stay over by 10 million, you're being absurd. Releasing Ward alone would clear four million, and they've been making moves all week to get that cap space (i.e. Harrison and Ben willing to renegotiate now), Pittsburgh's smarter than that.
[/quote]
being projected to 10 million over the cap and in actuality being half a million under is a pretty big discrepancy. Does PFT account for being able to borrow from future cap cause then that half a million number would make more sense, but how the steelers went from 25 million over the cap at the beginning of the season to half a million under is beyond my comprehension.

And yes pitt is that dumb because by restructuring all of these contracts they are mortgaging their future. They are just pushing off the cap probs of this year to following years. They still have a lot of resignings to make. Wallace and Brown are both coming up for new contracts within the next 2 years. In the long run it will hurt them.

Even if they somehow manage to just barely get under the cap by all of these restructurings and cuts, how much good does it really do them. Their future has been mortgaged away cap wise and they will have probs resigning players. They wont be able to resign guys like Wallace or Brown to the type of contracts those guys want with minimal cap space that they will have created.

Its probs like this that are the reason why Bisciotti said that he would not mortgage his future away by going over the cap and borrowing from future years.

[Cville-Raven]

Maybe if the guy run blocked well and didn't have some punk attitude, however he has those unwanted qualities: SO NO.

[JO_75]

I say no but some team may very well give up a first for him. Especially a WR needy team at the bottom of Round 1 or a playoff team willing to part ways with their first regardless they need a WR or not. Though I doubt anyone would give up a first for Wallace.

[arnie_uk]

no, purely because they are in our division. i would never trade within divisions

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

The only thing is that even when you give up the first to get him, you still have to sign him to a long term contract. With it being such a deep FA WR class, you can find guys who be your number one without having to give up that first. I do believe Wallace is well worth a first and the thought of Torrey/Wallace tearing up secondaries does make me feel warm inside, but it really doesn't make sense to do it this year with a deep FA WR pool.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1329341140' post='994838']
being projected to 10 million over the cap and in actuality being half a million under is a pretty big discrepancy. Does PFT account for being able to borrow from future cap cause then that half a million number would make more sense, but how the steelers went from 25 million over the cap at the beginning of the season to half a million under is beyond my comprehension.

[b]And yes pitt is that dumb because by restructuring all of these contracts they are mortgaging their future. They are just pushing off the cap probs of this year to following years. They still have a lot of resignings to make. Wallace and Brown are both coming up for new contracts within the next 2 years. In the long run it will hurt them.[/b]

Even if they somehow manage to just barely get under the cap by all of these restructurings and cuts, how much good does it really do them. Their future has been mortgaged away cap wise and they will have probs resigning players. They wont be able to resign guys like Wallace or Brown to the type of contracts those guys want with minimal cap space that they will have created.

Its probs like this that are the reason why Bisciotti said that he would not mortgage his future away by going over the cap and borrowing from future years.
[/quote]

And your solution would be? Yes, they are dumb to get into such a situation, but they are doing what they can and [i]have[/i] to do to get under, and remain successful. You can call they dumb all you want, but at the end of the day, Pittsburgh is one of, if not the, most successful NFL franchises for a reason.

[Adam Jones]

As mush as I would love to screw over the Steelers, I don't think Wallace is the type of receiver we should be focusing on.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1329344514' post='994898']
I say no but some team may very well give up a first for him. Especially a WR needy team at the bottom of Round 1 or a playoff team willing to part ways with their first regardless they need a WR or not. [b]Though I doubt anyone would give up a first for Wallace.[/b]
[/quote]

I disagree. He's young, fast, posted back to back 1,100+ yard seasons, and averages 18.7 yards per reception. I can honestly see a few teams giving up a first for him, although I don't think any will. Which is why Pittsburgh probably will slap him with a first and roll the dice. Probably won't have much of a choice, depending on how they can swing the rest of their contracts to get into position to get and stay under the cap.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1329345110' post='994913']

And your solution would be? Yes, they are dumb to get into such a situation, but they are doing what they can and [i]have[/i] to do to get under, and remain successful. You can call they dumb all you want, but at the end of the day, Pittsburgh is one of, if not the, most successful NFL franchises for a reason.
[/quote]
Its dumb because its creating an almost endless cycle. Yes your right its dumb to get into the situation in the first place, but to continue it is just as bad. I understand they have to do something, but they are setting themselves up for a hard crash. Eventually there will come a point where Pitt will be wrecked by their cap situation and there wont be enough talent on their team to account for that mistake and they will end up rebuilding. That point isn't 10 years in the future, that point may very well be soon with mike wallace and antonio brown's contracts coming to an end. The reason Pitt has been so successful is because they have managed to find quality talent in the draft to account for situations like wallace and brown leaving. That added to their coaching has allowed Pitt to not drop off even when the cap would like to create a situation where they would and should. I am not saying they just replaced them, but they find guys that can produce in the draft.

Now i'm gonna say this here that the franchise is smart, and finds ways to produce and they will find a way to get around the cap, but it won't be easy and there will be a point where they lose a lot of talent because they cant afford to keep it and it will make the team weaker.

As for a solution to their problem, I can't give one because I don't know enough about Pittsburgh's individual contracts and how they affect the cap. I also don't know which contracts got them into this situation to begin with and what Pitt's plans are. If Pitt is fine with winning 1 more superbowl in the next few years and then dropping off to rebuild for a couple of years, then mortgaging the future is the right move, but if they want to be consistent contenders for years to come, they may have to trade/cut key players in order to do it. It would hurt their team in the short run, but they would still be able to compete.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1329345514' post='994922']

I disagree. He's young, fast, posted back to back 1,100+ yard seasons, and averages 18.7 yards per reception. I can honestly see a few teams giving up a first for him, although I don't think any will. Which is why Pittsburgh probably will slap him with a first and roll the dice. Probably won't have much of a choice, depending on how they can swing the rest of their contracts to get into position to get and stay under the cap.
[/quote]
I could see the pats taking him very easily. Only other teams I could see are the browns and bengals, but like I said before unless the guy is an irreplaceable talent, stealing an rfa within the division will almost never happen.

[flynismo]

This isn't even a legit question. Of course you send PIT a 1st and a thank you note for Wallace.

[Jamal]

I can't see it happening, but I'd be all for it.

You take away Pittsburgh's best weapon on offense, and you'd only have to give up a 29th pick. Whats not to like?

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

I don't like Wallace after what he said about Webb but if they could put that behind them and get along then it would be a pretty good deal, providing we could fit a deal in under the cap for him. I don't think we will though given that adding another receiver, one very similar to Torrey, is not a big priority IMO. Especially if we keep Evans.

I can see NE giving up pick 31 for him. Adding Wallace to their offense this year would have completed it.

[BloodRaven]

Identical starting WR's doesn't give you much balance. Personally I'd like to see him stay where he is, he does nothing when we play them.

[hawkprey]

Wallace isn't even worth a 2nd. He's not an elite WR and never will be. He's got speed but that can be game-planned against. 2nd round pick for a small upgrade over Lee Evans? No thanks. Especially not in Cam's "don't use the third receiver" offense. Not to mention you're forcing Joe to throw to yet another new target.

Antonio Brown is better IMO and Pittsburgh found him in the 6th round. No reason there aren't other quick WRs who can fill his role for a fraction of the price. Terrible idea.

[T3hRaven]

SportsCenter just suggested that the Bengals make this move with one of their extra first rounders. I would rather the Pats do it, but I'm less afraid of Wallace on the Bengals than the Steelers. Dalton was a decent decision maker, but he doesn't have the arm strength the truly take advantage of Wallace's speed. If he's not running deep routes as much, he's not the most sure handed of guys, and while not terrible it's not the strength of his game. He will get exposed. Anything that hurts the Steelers is good for the Ravens really, although the idea of giving a decent FO another first rounder is a bit frightening. Pittsburgh would do more with it than Cinci would, in all likelihood.

[BMORElegacy]

I'm intrigued by this.

[Free Agent]

While I would love this, I cant see us doing it. But the team that I think should do this without hesitation is the Texans. They will probably be picking a WR in the first round, and since they have a late first rounder, they should trade it for Wallace in a heartbeat. And imagine Andre Johnson and Mike Wallace paired up... wow, now that would be scary...