Ideas On A 4/3 Defense, So Bare With Me

[Alexir]

We can toy with the Defense when Ed and Ray retire. Let's keep things the way they are so we don't have to learn a new defense. We are fine on defense, just need the offense to play better so we can let our HOFers go out on top.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1329352173' post='995050']

Ozzie did what he always does. He picked the highest rated player on the board. If he was psychic, then he would have tried to trade up to take Gronkowski. Three things that you can't get away from: (1) Evans failure to hang on to the ball, not to mention the drops that cost us in several recent playoff games; (2) Cundiff's wide left miss; (3) The what-ifs of the 2010 draft. Kindle is not ever going to live up to the hype. I'd do the merciful thing and let him go. By the way, the correct term is damaged goods, not "damage good." We'll be back next year, hopefully without Evans, Cundiff, or Kindle.
[/quote]
the d key on my keyboard sticks sometimes so my bad for the typo ya grammar nazi

As for points 1 and 2 what did they have to do with anything I said. Anyway as for kindle he will probably stick around for the minimum. I agree he will never live up to the hype, but the point remains that we didn't draft damaged goods. We drafted a healthy player and he got hurt. It happens. If he becomes a usable olb I'd be very happy with his progress.

[CapoRocky]

The Catholic nuns beat the hell out of my knuckles to make me learn English.

[Ravenstown52]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1329353726' post='995067']
The Catholic nuns beat the hell out of my knuckles to make me learn English.
[/quote]
I lol'd all over my carpet

[Ravenseconbeast]

*facepalm*

[BmoreInBmore]

This is a terrible idea, to begin with the 4-3 relies heavily on linebacker versatility, 3 men have to be able to cover the entire second line of defense, and there is no way Ray, McClain or Ellerbe can do that; we got burnt in shallow crosses the enitre game in New England removing an additional linebacker is not the answer to remedy that issue. The reason we converted to a 3-4 to begin with is becuase we lost Thomas; and extremely versatile linebacker, and had to compensate, by adding an additinal linebacker. The only current linebacker we have that would be able to effectively play LB in a 4-3 scheme is Suggs, but you have him on the line, and that wouldn't work. And Ray IS way to slow to still cover the entire middle of the field by himself.

The only way the 4-3 works for us is by putting Cody and Ngata at the DT positions, having Mcphee and someone else (possibly Kruger) at DE. Jones is not suited to play DE in a 4-3 he lacks the pass rushing repertoire, is to big and to slow. We would also need to findanother versatile linebacker to fill the OLB position opposite of Suggs; and take Ray out on passing downs. Thats putting a lot of eggs in a basket full of question marks. It really just makes absoulutely no sense to change a front 7 scheme that ranked 2nd in rush defense and third in sacks last season; while additionally introducing a new D-coordinatior.

[RedFire]

but i can still bring 4men on a pass rush out of the 4-3...and we do that as is and we have 3LBS in converage or sometimes bring in a nickel back to do it.

i like running a 3-4....easier to stop toss plays simply because of alignment. 4-3 would have gotten us killed even worse against the texans.

[BloodRaven]

I think unless you have 4 linemen who can get to the QB there's no point in a 4-3. The days of two NT like Goose and Adams clogging up lanes isn't as effective anymore as the emphasis of offensive schemes move more and more into the passing game.

[CapoRocky]

If we had Cliff Avril, we could play either 4-3 or 3-4 and QBs would have hell to pay with Avril and Suggs in their face all game. That would be a better acquision than Mario Williams or any of the overpriced receivers on the market.

[latenighthero]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1329336289' post='994753']
The Saints did it. If a team is desperate enough they will do it to acquire a player they really like. It's not impossible to think we could get a 2012 2nd round pick and a 2013 1st. It all depends on who is there.

For the record, I think we trade down into the high 2nd round this year. I also believe Burflict will fall. If he does fall I believe we will pick him up. From what I read on him he hasn't been impressive in pre-Combine workouts as reported on Rotoworld.
[/quote]
Sure, but it's still much more hopeful than practical.

As for your comments on Burficit, I just watched his youtube highlights and wow was I underwhelmed. I don't think there is anyway that we pick him with our 1st round pick and I would be willing to bet that we wouldn't even take him before our own late 2nd round pick. The guy looks terrible to me.

Sure he's very athletic, but he can't do anything with it because he doesn't have the instincts and in-game intelligence to put himself in a position to make those huge hits and other big plays. He also doesn't seem like a "solid tackler" in my opinion.

[The Raven]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1329379389' post='995257']
This is a terrible idea, to begin with the 4-3 relies heavily on linebacker versatility, 3 men have to be able to cover the entire second line of defense, and there is no way Ray, McClain or Ellerbe can do that; we got burnt in shallow crosses the enitre game in New England removing an additional linebacker is not the answer to remedy that issue. The reason we converted to a 3-4 to begin with is becuase we lost Thomas; and extremely versatile linebacker, and had to compensate, by adding an additinal linebacker. The only current linebacker we have that would be able to effectively play LB in a 4-3 scheme is Suggs, but you have him on the line, and that wouldn't work. And Ray IS way to slow to still cover the entire middle of the field by himself.

The only way the 4-3 works for us is by putting Cody and Ngata at the DT positions, having Mcphee and someone else (possibly Kruger) at DE. Jones is not suited to play DE in a 4-3 he lacks the pass rushing repertoire, is to big and to slow. We would also need to findanother versatile linebacker to fill the OLB position opposite of Suggs; and take Ray out on passing downs. Thats putting a lot of eggs in a basket full of question marks. It really just makes absoulutely no sense to change a front 7 scheme that ranked 2nd in rush defense and third in sacks last season; while additionally introducing a new D-coordinatior.
[/quote]

Agreed, except you fail to realize that Arthur Jones played 4-3 DT at Syracuse, not end.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1329412255' post='995507']
Sure, but it's still much more hopeful than practical.

As for your comments on Burficit, I just watched his youtube highlights and wow was I underwhelmed. I don't think there is anyway that we pick him with our 1st round pick and I would be willing to bet that we wouldn't even take him before our own late 2nd round pick. The guy looks terrible to me.

Sure he's very athletic, but he can't do anything with it because he doesn't have the instincts and in-game intelligence to put himself in a position to make those huge hits and other big plays. He also doesn't seem like a "solid tackler" in my opinion.
[/quote]
Hey, that's all we do around here is hope! Lol.

He's unimpressive, right? He looked really good when I watched that one highlight reel of his. When I actually watched game footage, I was thinking "Really? This is it? C'mon, man!" He looks like a 3rd or 4th round pick to me AT THIS POINT.

[The Raven]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1329425504' post='995714']
Hey, that's all we do around here is hope! Lol.

He's unimpressive, right? He looked really good when I watched that one highlight reel of his. When I actually watched game footage, I was thinking "Really? This is it? C'mon, man!" He looks like a 3rd or 4th round pick to me AT THIS POINT.
[/quote]

I think the thing that gives Burfict such a high grade is his potential. He has the potential and athleticism to be great. Personally, I don't think that potential should give him such a high grade. Potential doesn't mean jack most of the time. And I agree, I think he's a 2nd-3rd rounder.

[jdynamite]

People saying the 4-3 wouldn't work or would be problematic because of personnel and ray Lewis lack of lateral quickness needs to realize that in the 4-3 Ray would be protect by the great wall of Ngata and Cody in the middle. When we drafted Cody I instantly thought of him and Ngata teaming up to keep blockers off of ray and allow him to run freely. Like Sam adams and siragusa used to. Suggs is already very similar in size to McCrary and he lines up often with had in dirt anyway. We don't currently have the olbs to be honest because it would depend if Suggs is going to be a de for pass rush reasons then our olbs would really be lacking. But let's remember when this team was a 4-3 base team with Lewis boulware, sharper at lb boulware usually would have just as many or more sacks than McCrary.

[The Raven]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1329535701' post='996836']
People saying the 4-3 wouldn't work or would be problematic because of personnel and ray Lewis lack of lateral quickness needs to realize that in the 4-3 Ray would be protect by the great wall of Ngata and Cody in the middle. When we drafted Cody I instantly thought of him and Ngata teaming up to keep blockers off of ray and allow him to run freely. Like Sam adams and siragusa used to. Suggs is already very similar in size to McCrary and he lines up often with had in dirt anyway. We don't currently have the olbs to be honest because it would depend if Suggs is going to be a de for pass rush reasons then our olbs would really be lacking. But let's remember when this team was a 4-3 base team with Lewis boulware, sharper at lb boulware usually would have just as many or more sacks than McCrary.
[/quote]

What does being protected have to do with lateral quickness?

[jdynamite]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1329539980' post='996855']


What does being protected have to do with lateral quickness?
[/quote]

If he doesn't have to worry about shedding blockers as much, he can just attack the play... Ray is an intelligent enough player and watches enough game film to dissect a great majority of plays... His lateral quickness isn't diminished to point where he can't cover any ground... He only gets beat on cross routes underneath thats going to happen to him regardless of 3-4 or 4-3 heck that's going to happen to all MLB including young ones that still possess "lateral quickness". Let's be real even after 16 seasons Rays speed isn't much less than a McClain.
With

[jdynamite]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1329539980' post='996855']


What does being protected have to do with lateral quickness?
[/quote]

If he doesn't have to worry about shedding blockers as much, he can just attack the play... Ray is an intelligent enough player and watches enough game film to dissect a great majority of plays... His lateral quickness isn't diminished to point where he can't cover any ground... He only gets beat on cross routes underneath thats going to happen to him regardless of 3-4 or 4-3 heck that's going to happen to all MLB including young ones that still possess "lateral quickness". Let's be real even after 16 seasons Rays speed isn't much less than a McClain.

[tctony]

Careful! People on this board hate the 4-3 for some reason.

[Ravenslifer]

Whatever we're doing right now is fine. We've been a top 5 defense 7 out of the last 11 seasons, and some of those outside seasons were years when guys got hurt.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1329422133' post='995664']

Agreed, except you fail to realize that Arthur Jones played 4-3 DT at Syracuse, not end.
[/quote]

I know, that original poster said that possibly Jones could play end, and I just listed reasons he couldn't

[da#1ravensfan]

Dont change the scheme!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1329597540' post='997102']
Careful! People on this board hate the 4-3 for some reason.
[/quote]
That would be because we don't have the LBs to play it. Specifically MLB. In a perfect world, McClain can play Sam, Kindle plays Will, and the dude we bring in to take over from Ray plays MLB. Then we need a RE opposite Suggs who can apply pressure on a constant basis.

Unfortunately thats about as big of a "what if" scenario as you can find.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1329597540' post='997102']
Careful! People on this board hate the 4-3 for some reason.
[/quote]
Its not hate for the 4-3, it just doesn't make sense from a personnel standpoint.

If it ain't broke don't fix it!

[tctony]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1329684890' post='997459']
That would be because we don't have the LBs to play it. Specifically MLB. In a perfect world, McClain can play Sam, Kindle plays Will, and the dude we bring in to take over from Ray plays MLB. Then we need a RE opposite Suggs who can apply pressure on a constant basis.

Unfortunately thats about as big of a "what if" scenario as you can find.
[/quote]

Only problem is Ray, IMO. But, thats an okay problem to have.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1329319958' post='994500']
Let's draft Burflict or Mercilus in the first round. The last time we traded our first round pick we ended up with damaged goods.
[/quote]
why not pick up haynesworthless and cheap shot harrison so we can have all the bad seeds on 1 team , dude the asu kid wont hack it with lewis he will bounce out faster then harrison did . honestly if we could we need a guy like hightower but our main target should not be D however it should be the Oline for the draft . I see where people are talking about the 43 because when was the last year we ran it but like some one mentioned we had an entirely different personel for that.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1329412255' post='995507']
Sure, but it's still much more hopeful than practical.

As for your comments on Burficit, I just watched his youtube highlights and wow was I underwhelmed. I don't think there is anyway that we pick him with our 1st round pick and I would be willing to bet that we wouldn't even take him before our own late 2nd round pick. The guy looks terrible to me.

Sure he's very athletic, but he can't do anything with it because he doesn't have the instincts and in-game intelligence to put himself in a position to make those huge hits and other big plays. He also doesn't seem like a "solid tackler" in my opinion.
[/quote]
the kid is a penalty machine he had how many PFs this season in college I know he was benched for one of them the kid is like suh and haynesworth and harrison rolled into 1

[Ravenseconbeast]

HELL NO to 4-3.

Our defensive scheme has never ever been the problem. It's our pultrid offense that always put us down.

You can take your facination with Saints pultrid 4-3 scheme anytime.

I'll take our 3-4 #1 defense of the decade anyday.

[display name]

I like the mostly 3-4 system we have now. We have ridiculously awesome linebackes, so use them.

[display name]

[quote name='TheRavenouseD2008' timestamp='1330151500' post='1002295']
why not pick up haynesworthless and cheap shot harrison so we can have all the bad seeds on 1 team , dude the asu kid wont hack it with lewis he will bounce out faster then harrison did . honestly if we could we need a guy like hightower but our main target should not be D however it should be the Oline for the draft . I see where people are talking about the 43 because when was the last year we ran it but like some one mentioned we had an entirely different personel for that.
[/quote]

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[BmoreRavens732]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1330219653' post='1003037']


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[/quote]pretty much lol