What Is A Sport? The Debate Thread

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1328754858' post='989916']

So swimming faster than the other dude isn't a head to head confrontation?
[/quote]
[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1328754745' post='989913']
I think you are confusing sports and general athletics/competitions. Sports aren't just anything someone can be good at. In swimming, the object of one swimmer is not to halt the other swimmer. Whereas in a sport, say tennis, the object is to specifically outduel one person by making it difficult for them. There has to be head-to-head confrontation for it to be a sport. Otherwise it's just an event.

Being a sport has nothing to do with how hard or complicated it is, as long as there's some athleticism involved.

Most people seem to think calling something "not a sport" takes away from it. It doesn't. It's just a description.
[/quote]
The outdueling factor is questionable towards swimming. If you ask a swimmer I think he would say its a support. the olympics has swimming in it. Swimming meets all the criteria we have accepted so far.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='cursona pirate' timestamp='1328739359' post='989714']
Swimming i believes shows a display of athletics. Swimming requires a lot of energy, way more than most sports do. Swimming is usually head to head against some one else. Same goes with sprinting and hurdling in Track and Field.
[/quote]
As I stated in another post, the difficulty of swimming isn't what makes it not a sport.

Swimming and hurdling are NOT head to head, because you doing well doesn't affect the other person's outcome. Drafting and competitive drive aren't what I'm talking about. You need to be personally responsible for hurting your opponent's outcome. That's why boxing is a sport and swimming is not. Something where you try to reduce your time or increase distance rather than score points AGAINST someone else, in whatever fashion, is an event.

[berad]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1328754745' post='989913']
I think you are confusing sports and general athletics/competitions. Sports aren't just anything someone can be good at. In swimming, the object of one swimmer is not to halt the other swimmer. Whereas in a sport, say tennis, the object is to specifically outduel one person by making it difficult for them. There has to be head-to-head confrontation for it to be a sport. Otherwise it's just an event.

Being a sport has nothing to do with how hard or complicated it is, as long as there's some athleticism involved.

Most people seem to think calling something "not a sport" takes away from it. It doesn't. It's just a description.
[/quote]

I thought swimmers are affected by each other, something about the waves from the other lanes interfering with their strokes - I don't really recall, they mentioned it during the Olympics, however long ago. Same goes for track, keeping someone from passing you definitely impedes them.

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1328755147' post='989926']
As I stated in another post, the difficulty of swimming isn't what makes it not a sport.

Swimming and hurdling are NOT head to head,[b] because you doing well doesn't affect the other person's outcome[/b]. Drafting and competitive drive aren't what I'm talking about. You need to be personally responsible for hurting your opponent's outcome. That's why boxing is a sport and swimming is not. Something where you try to reduce your time or increase distance rather than score points AGAINST someone else, in whatever fashion, is an event.
[/quote]
i beg to differ this statement. Mentally you can be affected by someone doing something better than you. It's human nature to want to be better than others. Espically in physically activities.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1328755271' post='989928']

I thought swimmers are affected by each other, something about the waves from the other lanes interfering with their strokes - I don't really recall, they mentioned it during the Olympics, however long ago. Same goes for track, keeping someone from passing you definitely impedes them.
[/quote]
But your grading scale (time/points/knockout) isn't dependent on how other people do. For example, in football, you score points AGAINST a defense. If there was no defense, and all football was was 11 guys trying to catch a ball against thin air, it wouldn't be a sport. It would be a running and catching event.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='cursona pirate' timestamp='1328755533' post='989934']
i beg to differ this statement. Mentally you can be affected by someone doing something better than you. It's human nature to want to be better than others. Espically in physically activities.
[/quote]
Did you read the line after that?

[IMissMattStover]

[quote name='cursona pirate' timestamp='1328755533' post='989934']
i beg to differ this statement. Mentally you can be affected by someone doing something better than you. [b]It's human nature to want to be better than others[/b]. Espically in physically activities.
[/quote]

That is one of the fundamental truths of humanity, however flawed and selfish it might be. Throughout all of history, that has been a major facet of our being. Just look at the Ancient Greeks and Romans.

[berad]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1328755553' post='989936']
But your grading scale (time/points/knockout) isn't dependent on how other people do. For example, in football, you score points AGAINST a defense. If there was no defense, and all football was was 11 guys trying to catch a ball against thin air, it wouldn't be a sport. It would be a running and catching event.
[/quote]

Your time does depend on how others do - placement. If someone's holding you off the entire race and you finish second, behind them , they've "defended" you.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1328755770' post='989942']

Your time does depend on how others do - placement. If someone's holding you off the entire race and you finish second, behind them , they've "defended" you.
[/quote]
That's not supposed to happen technically, which is why there are many rules against blocking or cutting off people in events. And again, when you finish, you are not on record as having beaten some competitor. You are put on record by your time. People might remember who you've beaten, but that's besides the point.

[IMissMattStover]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1328756032' post='989949']
That's not supposed to happen technically, which is why there are many rules against blocking or cutting off people in events. And again, when you finish, you are not on record as having beaten some competitor. You are put on record by your time. People might remember who you've beaten, but that's besides the point.
[/quote]

I also recall that you are not allowed to pull a gun from your speedo and blow away the competition.............

[big hits and ball hawks]

[quote name='cursona pirate' timestamp='1328754866' post='989917']
i have been shooting arrows for many years(one of the things im actually decent at) it does take your arm strength out after a bit, however i am a little scrawny so that could be why. there is many competitions for gold out there. Archery is very questionable.

lol how about fishing? it has the skill criteria. Physically not to much except if your reeling in a big one. It has the competition sometimes. I belive in the Pro Bass championship if that's what its called?
[/quote]

It depends on the person for fishing, much like for archery. You have to be competitive for a fisher or an archer to consider what they do a sport. According to the definition I'm going, and sticking, by. For example, for you, was archery just something you did or do you do it to compete against other archers? If it's the latter than you can continue to debate if it's a sport or not. If it's the former than it's just a hobby. Same implies for fishing, in my opinion.

We aren't debating whether or not football is a sport, so there's a point when personal opinion takes affect and the definition itself isn't enough to justify one way or the other. The only way to answer questions like how much physical exertion does there need to be in order for something to be a sport is with an opinion. Same with how much skill is involved in something. The definition of sport is too general for certain activities to be solidified as sports, so many like fishing and archery are going to be continuously debated. Much like swimming is being debated in this thread now.

[Clutch Ravens]

Darts is not a sport.

Look at everything it is, reverse them and that defines a sport. A bunch of middle-aged, overweight, drunken men throwing pointy objects at a circle is everything a sport shouldn't be.

[berad]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1328756032' post='989949']
That's not supposed to happen technically, which is why there are many rules against blocking or cutting off people in events.[/quote]

Fair enough but it happens. Suppose someone is running the inside track on a course, you can't physically go through them, you have to go around - impeding your progress.

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1328756032' post='989949']
And again, when you finish, you are not on record as having beaten some competitor. You are put on record by your time. People might remember who you've beaten, but that's besides the point.
[/quote]

Your time is recorded but also your [b]placement[/b], which implies that you raced [i]against[/i] someone. Sorry if I'm nit-picking but I really think swimming and track&field are sports and fall into your definition.

[1/28/01]

Beer pong absolutely is a sport!!

[codizzle]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1328757594' post='989984']
Beer pong absolutely is a sport!!
[/quote]
Them trick shots take precision and complete focus

[IMissMattStover]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1328758158' post='990005']
Them trick shots take precision and complete focus
[/quote]
And the compettion is to see who gets the most hammered.

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='big hits and ball hawks' timestamp='1328756857' post='989966']

It depends on the person for fishing, much like for archery. You have to be competitive for a fisher or an archer to consider what they do a sport. According to the definition I'm going, and sticking, by. For example, for you, was archery just something you did or do you do it to compete against other archers? If it's the latter than you can continue to debate if it's a sport or not. If it's the former than it's just a hobby. Same implies for fishing, in my opinion.

We aren't debating whether or not football is a sport, so there's a point when personal opinion takes affect and the definition itself isn't enough to justify one way or the other. The only way to answer questions like how much physical exertion does there need to be in order for something to be a sport is with an opinion. Same with how much skill is involved in something. [b]The definition of sport is too general for certain activities to be solidified as sports, so many like fishing and archery are going to be continuously debated. Much like swimming is being debated in this thread now.[/b]
[/quote]
lol usually debates are never ending! That's why i thought this would be fun to create a thread like this. I am hoping to create more debate threadson other random topics. I might get a more specfic topic to work with. I like the way this thread is going though. It's better than i thought it would be.

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1328757404' post='989981']

Fair enough but it happens. Suppose someone is running the inside track on a course, you can't physically go through them, you have to go around - impeding your progress.



Your time is recorded but also your [b]placement[/b], which implies that you raced [i]against[/i] someone. Sorry if I'm nit-picking but I really think swimming and track&field are sports and fall into your definition.
[/quote]
it's okay to nit pick in this thread lol! +1

[big hits and ball hawks]

[quote name='cursona pirate' timestamp='1328758497' post='990014']
lol usually debates are never ending! That's why i thought this would be fun to create a thread like this. I am hoping to create more debate threadson other random topics. I might get a more specfic topic to work with. I like the way this thread is going though. It's better than i thought it would be.
[/quote]

You picked a good debate to start with. I'd say this idea has been a success and you should keep at it. It's a refreshing change of pace, the whole off topic part of the forum is, really.

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='big hits and ball hawks' timestamp='1328759283' post='990035']

You picked a good debate to start with. I'd say this idea has been a success and you should keep at it. It's a refreshing change of pace, the whole off topic part of the forum is, really.
[/quote]
okayi will come up with more! This does make things very fresh espically during the offseason.

[IMissMattStover]

Offseason is the slowest time. Its great to have rediculous but entertaining topics. The Frequent posters on here are pretty funny. Once you get to know people's personality.

[Maryland1]

[i][color=#ff0000]MOD NOTE: [/color][color=#0000ff]Please stay on topic ([/color][color=#000000]What Is A Sport?[/color][color=#0000ff]). Thank you.[/color][/i]

[Ravenslifer]

I'm not sure what the exact definition of a sport is, but I can tell you what is NOT a sport yet is constantly being shown on ESPN - poker. That is a card game - one that can be very entertaining, true, but not a sport.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1328757404' post='989981']
Fair enough but it happens. Suppose someone is running the inside track on a course, you can't physically go through them, you have to go around - impeding your progress.

Your time is recorded but also your [b]placement[/b], which implies that you raced [i]against[/i] someone. Sorry if I'm nit-picking but I really think swimming and track&field are sports and fall into your definition.
[/quote]
Well "boxing in" happens, but it doesn't add to your outcome. If you run the mile in 3:45, nobody asks "Oh yeah, well who did he run against?" because it's not important. By that measure, anything could be a sport because anyone can be heckled, which could also affect performance. So it's not about how you can be impeded incidentally by other people, it's about being pitted directly against a team (or "teams", I guess).

In fact, I'll try to come up with an example of when something becomes a sport.

Say there are two people doing the long jump. It's an event. Now say they do it at the same time, right next to each other. It's an event - it's just two events that happen to go on at the same time. Now say each person is on the same lane, trying to prevent the other from having a successful jump. If seeding is dependent on how far you jumped, it's still an event. The event is technically the "long jump with guy in the way". You would say you're competing in the finals of the "long jump with guy in the way". It's not an event yet because your performance is just a mark, or a measure of an act you did describing your abilities. If seeding is dependent on head to head wins instead, it's now a sport because jump length is a score rather than a mark.

[berad]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1328761725' post='990084'] Well "boxing in" happens, but it doesn't add to your outcome. If you run the mile in 3:45, nobody asks "Oh yeah, well who did he run against?" because it's not important. By that measure, anything could be a sport because anyone can be heckled, which could also affect performance. So it's not about how you can be impeded incidentally by other people, it's about being pitted directly against a team (or "teams", I guess).

In fact, I'll try to come up with an example of when something becomes a sport.

Say there are two people doing the long jump. It's an event. Now say they do it at the same time, right next to each other. It's an event - it's just two events that happen to go on at the same time. Now say each person is on the same lane, trying to prevent the other from having a successful jump. If seeding is dependent on how far you jumped, it's still an event. The event is technically the "long jump with guy in the way". You would say you're competing in the finals of the "long jump with guy in the way". It's not an event yet because your performance is just a mark, or a measure of an act you did describing your abilities. If seeding is dependent on head to head wins instead, it's now a sport because jump length is a score rather than a mark.[/quote]

Runners do try to keep you behind them, try to impede you, and it is not incidental. On any given race, the goal is not to get ___ time, it's to beat the people next to you. The other runners are actively trying to keep you from winning, they want to win, themselves. Otherwise, why wouldn't they all just run separately?

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1328797787' post='990214']

Runners do try to keep you behind them, try to impede you, and it is not incidental. On any given race, the goal is not to get ___ time, it's to beat the people next to you. The other runners are actively trying to keep you from winning, they want to win, themselves. Otherwise, why wouldn't they all just run separately?
[/quote]
Yeah there is a reason all runners run at the same time. I agree with you.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1328797787' post='990214']

Runners do try to keep you behind them, try to impede you, and it is not incidental. On any given race, the goal is not to get ___ time, it's to beat the people next to you. The other runners are actively trying to keep you from winning, they want to win, themselves. Otherwise, why wouldn't they all just run separately?
[/quote]
They do run separately. Just not at the Olympics. That's why at the Olympics you always see an Olympic world record and a non-Olympic world record. Ultimately the goal of an event runner is to break the world record. You can't do that if someone's ahead of you because you'd just lose to them.

The Olympic world record is almost always worse than the non-Olympic record because they perform better alone. That's just how it is. They run together at the Olympics because otherwise it would take forever.

Note that other evens such as gymnastics are performed alone. Is that not a sport to you? But the 100 meter dash is?

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1328740069' post='989724']
I dont think cheerleading,board games, or any [b]video games[/b] are true sports
[/quote]
Debatable. If golf is considered a sport (A sport that's more about hand-eye coordination more than anything) then it's definitely debatable that competitive gaming is a sport. Games require serious hand-eye coordination, reaction timing, and the smarts make the right moves in games such as fighters and shooters. It's something that you need to practice at to get better and learn which moves fit the correct situations. Sure, there's no where near as much physical activity as football, BUT it does indeed take skill to do and if your hand-eye coordination is not up to par or you're not playing as smart as the individual/individuals that you're going up against, then you're going to lose to better players and teams. Simple as that.

Maybe that's just my inner nerd though. lol

[berad]

[quote name='cursona pirate' timestamp='1328816461' post='990452']
Yeah there is a reason all runners run at the same time. I agree with you.
[/quote]

Word!

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1328817574' post='990470']
They do run separately. Just not at the Olympics. That's why at the Olympics you always see an Olympic world record and a non-Olympic world record. Ultimately the goal of an event runner is to break the world record. You can't do that if someone's ahead of you because you'd just lose to them.

The Olympic world record is almost always worse than the non-Olympic record because they perform better alone. That's just how it is. They run together at the Olympics because otherwise it would take forever.

Note that other evens such as gymnastics are performed alone. Is that not a sport to you? But the 100 meter dash is?
[/quote]

The goal isn't necessarily to break a world record, it's to win, to get the gold. Obviously, if you have a world record you won but that's akin to saying NFL teams attempt to break scoring records every game - not necessarily, they just want to win.

And it doesn't matter whether gymnastics is a sport to me, I'm going off of your definition - a head-to-head competition. The runners run on the same track, at the same time, and actively impede each others progress. And, no, not the 100m dash - they all stay in their separate lanes - but longer races, where they can break their lanes after a lap or two and the fight for the inside track begins.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='EnVy_CaLiBeR' timestamp='1328819645' post='990510']
Debatable. If golf is considered a sport (A sport that's more about hand-eye coordination more than anything) then it's definitely debatable that competitive gaming is a sport. Games require serious hand-eye coordination, reaction timing, and the smarts make the right moves in games such as fighters and shooters. It's something that you need to practice at to get better and learn which moves fit the correct situations. Sure, there's no where near as much physical activity as football, BUT it does indeed take skill to do and if your hand-eye coordination is not up to par or you're not playing as smart as the individual/individuals that you're going up against, then you're going to lose to better players and teams. Simple as that.

Maybe that's just my inner nerd though. lol
[/quote]
Lol, yeah videogames are hard to judge. But you dont have to be in shape, or athletic to play them. I feel sports are played by athletes. I think Gaming is its own category. Its unique, it's like in the middle lol. Competitive gaming I think would be the name of it. But gaming involves releying on technology, when sports like football,soccer,baseball,basketball reley on physical attributes by who ever is playing them. Its very complex lmao