Flacco's Time In The Pocket

[jimmypowder]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1328556818' post='987147']

You're right, the OL had their hands full those two games, J.J. Watt in particular, but I'm speaking about the OL over the entire season.

In the Texans game, everyone besides Oher did a relatively good job in pass pro, but Oher was getting schooled all game.

In the Pats game, Oher was getting dominated again in both run and pass situations, hence the rollouts.
Dare I say it: McKinnie was the most consistent lineman for us during these playoffs.

So looking at those two games, Oher gave up 4 or the 7 sacks as well as most of the pressures. The whole line wasn't bad in pass pro, it was just Oher.
[/quote]
Please. Birk was getting blown up by Wilfork all day long. Doesnt suprise me he got MVP of that game.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1328557280' post='987166']

I'm not saying the line is perfect, but they are one of the best units in the NFL. I'm just trying to say generally, Joe gets blitzed more than any QB in the NFL, and with that amount of duress, the OL do a great job overall of protecting Joe. I would say getting sacked less than 6% of the time while getting blitzed every other play is the mark of a really good OL. I never said anything about 5 seconds, but its impossible to prevent a pass rush after a certain amount of time. And three seconds is plenty of time in the NFL.
[/quote]

Not even! Maybe on their best game they are, but through the season, heck no they weren't among the best units. And 3 seconds? Plenty of time? Please!

[quote name='raybaby' timestamp='1328562531' post='987289']
The OL peaked when Grubbs came back... but as the season went on... there were some struggles.... probably because they were playing the better Ds throughout the season... and it started taking a toll. Maybe it has to do with conditioning? Idk. But it carried into the playoffs... again. They are obviously more comfortable with the run & even that they were struggling with. But they seem 'good' to decent in the regular season and then playoffs come around & they get manhandled by 3 man rushes & struggle to open holes. I don't remember a time in the playoffs in the Flacco era were our O line played well other than with the run in 09 against the Pats. Yes we had two probowlers... but the OL is a unit... it is only as strong as it's weakest link.
[/quote]

I really don't think its conditioning. These are world class athletes, and if they weren't in shape by the playoffs, well... thats bad.


The problems have already been stated. Inconsistent tackles and a declining center.

I think that the offense's inconsistencies as a whole hurt the OL. There was no rhythm in the majority of the games, which hurts the line a ton. Lack of balance can also hurt.

[K-Dog]

[quote name='jimmypowder' timestamp='1328551579' post='987029']
So your saying our o-line is pretty weak ?
[/quote]

No, I didnt say that at all. How in the world did you get that out of my statement ?
Either way I would say our o-line is not the best. No.

[jimmypowder]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1328573477' post='987568']

No, I didnt say that at all. How in the world did you get that out of my statement ?
Either way I would say our o-line is not the best. No.[/quote]


I think we have an average to slightly above average line. A C+ line .

We need to get to the A level . Patriots-Giants looked like A level O- lines .

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='jimmypowder' timestamp='1328581843' post='987753']
I think we have an average to slightly above average line. A C+ line .

We need to get to the A level . Patriots-Giants looked like A level O- lines .
[/quote]

For what it's worth, this article from last July ranked us 19th in the NFL. Interesting, because the number 1 and 2 ranked teams on the list were the Giants and Patritots.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/752574-nfl-power-rankings-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-in-the-nfl-for-2011/page/15

[Greatness]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1328541485' post='986857']
Now you understand how badly the deck is stacked against Flacco. A OL that doesn't protect him, and WR who can't get open (and would probably drop the ball even if they did).
[/quote]

Cold hard facts that anger me to tears.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='jimmypowder' timestamp='1328540763' post='986844']
After watching the Super Bowl, I'm just amazed as how much time typically Manning
and Brady had to throw the ball. At one point Brady could have had a snack near the goal line
before throwing a td pass.

[u][b]Is Joe really getting this amount of time to throw the ball? [/b][/u]Brady's not that mobile.
[/quote]

are you serious? have you watched our Raven's o-line this past season? absolutely not! lol!

~Mili

[Suggs Package]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1328583409' post='987786']

For what it's worth, this article from last July ranked us 19th in the NFL. Interesting, because the number 1 and 2 ranked teams on the list were the Giants and Patritots.

[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/752574-nfl-power-rankings-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-in-the-nfl-for-2011/page/15"]http://bleacherrepor...or-2011/page/15[/url]
[/quote]

I wouldn't rely on Bleacher Report to provide valuable analysis on any sports. They let anyone write. No Offense. But if you're interested in some OL Stats, check out [url="http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol"]Football Outsiders[/url] to see how well the OL performed during the season. Overall, we ranked 6th in run blocking and 12th in giving up sacks. But these stats don't account for the amount the Ravens are blitzed. According to Advanced NFL Stats, [url="http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamOL.php?year=2011&season=reg"]the OL were ranked 7th overall[/url] and 6th against the pass. I see it every game, but for stats, I'll pull up an old report from [url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/12/beating-the-blitz/"]Pro Football Focus[/url] that says that Joe Flacco was the most blitzed QB in the NFL last year. And overall, he handled it pretty bad. In 2010, he was one of the top QBs against the blitz, but this year, [url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/31/pressure-and-the-2011-quarterbacks/"]he was barely better than Mark Sanchez.[/url]

In terms of pressures, you'll see that not many full-time QBs got pressures less than Flacco this year. The shortlist includes Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Tom Brady, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Matthew Stafford. Eli got pressured the most this year outta all QBs, but he's the best in the league in not getting sacked. All Mannings know how not to get sacked.


[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1328562714' post='987295']
Im going to start off by saying that i respect that your are willing to go against the grain with your opinion. And i agree with you to an extent. In most common offenses 2 or 3 seconds is enough time to get rid of the ball, but we are a team that runs a lot of downfield plays. And there is often times where there are only 3 receiving options on the field (including Ray Rice) so in those situations sometimes the offense really does do a good job but there just aren't enough option, but our o line was manhandled this year when it came to power situations. (Goal line situations, short yardage situations, big nose guards etc)
[/quote]

Haha thanks, I like to be a contrarian. Our offensive scheme does play a role in Joe's pressures sometimes, but it takes most WRs around 3 seconds to get 20-30 yards downfield. Then you account for the time the ball's in the air. According to most people who chart stats for OL play, after 4 seconds, its not even considered a pressure anymore because the ball should have been gone somewhere by then.

I will agree with you that we struggled in power situations. Football Outsiders ranks us 15 in that situation. Our Guards and Center, although tough, are somewhat undersized. We're simply aren't that strong at the point of attack. We needed to run more stretch plays to take advantage of our speed on the OL there.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1328635042' post='988198']

I wouldn't rely on Bleacher Report to provide valuable analysis on any sports. They let anyone write. No Offense. But if you're interested in some OL Stats, check out [url="http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol"]Football Outsiders[/url] to see how well the OL performed during the season. Overall, we ranked 6th in run blocking and 12th in giving up sacks. But these stats don't account for the amount the Ravens are blitzed. According to Advanced NFL Stats, [url="http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamOL.php?year=2011&season=reg"]the OL were ranked 7th overall[/url] and 6th against the pass. I see it every game, but for stats, I'll pull up an old report from [url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/12/beating-the-blitz/"]Pro Football Focus[/url] that says that Joe Flacco was the most blitzed QB in the NFL last year. And overall, he handled it pretty bad. In 2010, he was one of the top QBs against the blitz, but this year, [url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/31/pressure-and-the-2011-quarterbacks/"]he was barely better than Mark Sanchez.[/url]

In terms of pressures, you'll see that not many full-time QBs got pressures less than Flacco this year. The shortlist includes Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Tom Brady, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Matthew Stafford. Eli got pressured the most this year outta all QBs, but he's the best in the league in not getting sacked. All Mannings know how not to get sacked.




Haha thanks, I like to be a contrarian. Our offensive scheme does play a role in Joe's pressures sometimes, but it takes most WRs around 3 seconds to get 20-30 yards downfield. Then you account for the time the ball's in the air. According to most people who chart stats for OL play, after 4 seconds, its not even considered a pressure anymore because the ball should have been gone somewhere by then.

I will agree with you that we struggled in power situations. Football Outsiders ranks us 15 in that situation. Our Guards and Center, although tough, are somewhat undersized. We're simply aren't that strong at the point of attack. We needed to run more stretch plays to take advantage of our speed on the OL there.
[/quote]

Wait, our interior linemen are undersized? Wow, I thought 6'4 315 was about average for a olineman... The Texans center is 290 and they smashed our defense up the middle... And I don't see how its the guards that are the problem, they both played in a probowl two weeks ago. Birk can't get push. And, didn't you realize how little success we had running stretches early in the year? Oher and Dickson couldn't seal the edge.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1328541974' post='986867']
We have 6 months to discuss the O-line. The big issue is going to be if Birk retires in 2 weeks. Not having a center that is familiar with the playbook can hurt the offense. Next thing is whether or not we re-sign or tag Grubbs. Everyone else is pretty much set in the lineup baring injury.
[/quote]
Birk retiring with Gurode behind him is no big deal. The man behind him was an all pro so i doubt the playbook will be a problem. Only concern for me is GRUBBS, we have to resign him he is a monster. In fact, he might be our best offensive lineman.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1328583409' post='987786']

For what it's worth, this article from last July ranked us 19th in the NFL. Interesting, because the number 1 and 2 ranked teams on the list were the Giants and Patritots.

[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/752574-nfl-power-rankings-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-in-the-nfl-for-2011/page/15"]http://bleacherrepor...or-2011/page/15[/url]
[/quote]
No surprise here. For some reason they allow these two teams lineman to hold. On every play. No wonder they are in the Super Bowl.
smh.

[The Raven]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1328704681' post='989254']
Birk retiring with Gurode behind him is no big deal. The man behind him was an all pro so i doubt the playbook will be a problem. Only concern for me is GRUBBS, we have to resign him he is a monster. In fact, he might be our best offensive lineman.
[/quote]

Personally, I think it's Yanda, but they're both great at what they do. Grubbs is better in pass pro, and is a little quicker, but Yanda is great at mauling dlinemen and linebackers. Yanda is the better guard on 3rd and 1, and when your running in general, but as far as pass pro and perimeter runs go, Grubbs might have the edge.

[BmoreRavens732]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1328749151' post='989823']


Personally, I think it's Yanda, but they're both great at what they do. Grubbs is better in pass pro, and is a little quicker, but Yanda is great at mauling dlinemen and linebackers. Yanda is the better guard on 3rd and 1, and when your running in general, but as far as pass pro and perimeter runs go, Grubbs might have the edge.
[/quote]i couldnt care less who is better we know what we have in both guys and without either the line is terrible so we gotta sign him

[ravensfan520]

I think Joe holds onto the ball to long and needs to trust his recievers and throw to a spot. That is what the elite qbs do. They give their receivers a chance to make the play. Joe holds the ball and waits for a big opening allowing dbs a chance to regroup or react and make a play. Which leads to the drops. Maybe after a full offseason allowing Joe and his recs a chance to work and Caldwell helping... Joe can recognize this and the passing game can all get on the same page. I really dont think there is a db that can over power Boldin or outrun Smith for the ball. And if we keep Evans and run more 3 rec sets we can dominate.

[Alexir]

[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1328930101' post='991727']
I think Joe holds onto the ball to long and needs to trust his recievers and throw to a spot. That is what the elite qbs do. They give their receivers a chance to make the play. Joe holds the ball and waits for a big opening allowing dbs a chance to regroup or react and make a play. Which leads to the drops. Maybe after a full offseason allowing Joe and his recs a chance to work and Caldwell helping... Joe can recognize this and the passing game can all get on the same page. I really dont think there is a db that can over power Boldin or outrun Smith for the ball. And if we keep Evans and run more 3 rec sets we can dominate.
[/quote]
Since the +1/-1 Button isn't working properly for me, I just wanted to say ....[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/plus-un2.gif[/img] [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/plus-un2.gif[/img]

[Yoonkeem]

Trust with recievers takes time,
Time, from better o-linemen. haha

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1328930101' post='991727']
I think Joe holds onto the ball to long and needs to trust his recievers and throw to a spot. That is what the elite qbs do. They give their receivers a chance to make the play. Joe holds the ball and waits for a big opening allowing dbs a chance to regroup or react and make a play. Which leads to the drops. Maybe after a full offseason allowing Joe and his recs a chance to work and Caldwell helping... Joe can recognize this and the passing game can all get on the same page. I really dont think there is a db that can over power Boldin or outrun Smith for the ball. And if we keep Evans and run more 3 rec sets we can dominate.
[/quote]
Let me get this straight, Joe doesn't force the ball into tight coverage which allows DBs to catch up and this causes the WRs to drop the balls? That's the most backwards logic I have ever heard. If Joe tried to force the ball any more he would throw more picks, that doesn't help matters.

I do agree that he needs to get better chemistry with his receivers, its pretty clear they weren't always on the same page, especially the young ones. That's a large part of why you might not see Joe throwing as many timing routes. Half of his back shoulder throws are incomplete because Torrey forgets to cut off the route.

Joe does throw to receivers that are in tight coverage a lot though. Go back and watch some tape, Joe's receivers are almost never wide open. Remember the Texans game? I don't think the recievers got more than half a step of separation all game.

[BmoreRavens732]

[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1328930101' post='991727']
I think Joe holds onto the ball to long and needs to trust his recievers and throw to a spot. That is what the elite qbs do. They give their receivers a chance to make the play. Joe holds the ball and waits for a big opening allowing dbs a chance to regroup or react and make a play. Which leads to the drops. Maybe after a full offseason allowing Joe and his recs a chance to work and Caldwell helping... Joe can recognize this and the passing game can all get on the same page. I really dont think there is a db that can over power Boldin or outrun Smith for the ball. And if we keep Evans and run more 3 rec sets we can dominate.
[/quote]drops are because the receivers simply dont catch the ball lmao though im not surprised its amazing people are trying to blame him for that smh if only joe would of caught that perfect throw in the endzone in the afccg or made the field goal he would get more respect....

[ravensfan520]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1328942567' post='991810']

Let me get this straight, Joe doesn't force the ball into tight coverage which allows DBs to catch up and this causes the WRs to drop the balls? That's the most backwards logic I have ever heard. If Joe tried to force the ball any more he would throw more picks, that doesn't help matters.

I do agree that he needs to get better chemistry with his receivers, its pretty clear they weren't always on the same page, especially the young ones. That's a large part of why you might not see Joe throwing as many timing routes. Half of his back shoulder throws are incomplete because Torrey forgets to cut off the route.

Joe does throw to receivers that are in tight coverage a lot though. Go back and watch some tape, Joe's receivers are almost never wide open. Remember the Texans game? I don't think the recievers got more than half a step of separation all game.
[/quote]

Remember this is the pros and not college. A half a step in the pros is like a step or two in college. Maybe like five compared to small colleges like Deleware.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1328997871' post='992125']


Remember this is the pros and not college. A half a step in the pros is like a step or two in college. Maybe like five compared to small colleges like Deleware.
[/quote]
That's exactly what Flacco does, he hits receivers that are in tight coverage because they can't get separation. If you watch some of the better offenses like NO, GB, or NYG those WRs get more separation on a consistent basis. It's a combination of ability and play design that we are lacking.

[ravensfan520]

[quote name='BmoreRavens732' timestamp='1328952817' post='991829']
drops are because the receivers simply dont catch the ball lmao though im not surprised its amazing people are trying to blame him for that smh if only joe would of caught that perfect throw in the endzone in the afccg or made the field goal he would get more respect....
[/quote]

What about the throw across the middle to... the middle linebacker... is that the receivers fault because he didnt make the catch. The throw to Evans was a great throw... the db just made a great play. Plus it was against the Pats what was their defense ranked. His best game was against Pitt because he threw to a spot and let his playmakers make plays. When you throw against a lot of man coverage you wont get a lot of space and when you play against the zone if you sit and wait you give defenses a chance to make plays.

[RivenHale]

[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1329000457' post='992152']
What about the throw across the middle to... the middle linebacker... is that the receivers fault because he didnt make the catch.
[/quote]

Do you mean the one in the Jets game? That was pretty clearly a misunderstanding between Joe and Ray. He thought Rice was gonna keep running, Rice thought he should chill where he was, and the linebacker got hit in the chest with the ball. Hard to tell who was at fault there because we don't know the playcall, but you can't 100% blame it on Joe.

[ravensfan520]

[quote name='RivenHale' timestamp='1329006954' post='992208']


Do you mean the one in the Jets game? That was pretty clearly a misunderstanding between Joe and Ray. He thought Rice was gonna keep running, Rice thought he should chill where he was, and the linebacker got hit in the chest with the ball. Hard to tell who was at fault there because we don't know the playcall, but you can't 100% blame it on Joe.
[/quote]

I am talking about the underthrow to Dickson in the championship game...

[raybaby]

[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1329013233' post='992299']
I am talking about the underthrow to Dickson in the championship game...
[/quote]

You realize it really didn't have to do with it being a bad throw... just not a great pump fake... Spikes didn't bite on it and made a great play. With that being said Joe could def improve on his fake.

[RivenHale]

[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1329013233' post='992299']
I am talking about the underthrow to Dickson in the championship game...
[/quote]

Yeah, that seemed like more of a bad decision than a bad throw. Though, point taken, bad moment in an otherwise sterling game.

[ravensfan520]

[quote name='RivenHale' timestamp='1329017814' post='992370']


Yeah, that seemed like more of a bad decision than a bad throw. Though, point taken, bad moment in an otherwise sterling game.
[/quote]

I think as good as Flacco is with the deep ball he struggles on balls in the middle the field and quick routes. Joe works better in the gun but that takes away a lot of the running game. In the gun gives him more time but it could also make us more vurnable to blitz packages and Rice is not very good at pass blocking and Flacco stares at his receivers too long. Maybe Caldwell can fix that. Flacco also works better when we move the pocket and another year with his new receivers can help them get on the same page... so to go along with that we need to keep Evans because they had chemistry early and bringing in a new one may slow us down... like him and Hussmenzada. We would have too many receivers and not enough balls to give out. But that's off subject.