Jim Caldwell Officially Joins Ravens As QB Coach

[Crabcakes&Football]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1328009011' post='980468']

Agreed. It was better this season than it has been but man, it is kind of brutal.

I like this hire. I think Hue's supposed power plays in Oakland hurt his chances to return here as a QB coach and who knows? Perhaps he just wasn't interested in the downgrade.

I don't know how much Caldwell had to do with Manning's development and even if it was the other way around, he is sure to have picked something up from Peyton. I'm really just happy to have someone between Joe and Cam.
[/quote]

Manning spoke very highly of him and said he was a big influence on him.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1328021389' post='980523']
good point, Brady's PA's killed us too.
[/quote]
When he has Moss though; Joe has Torrey so I think fake PA will beat them deep.....

[Gary the Critic]

Personal relationships are again holding the Ravens from the Super Bowl

Billick and Kyle Boller and a personal relationship and Billick put it before the team. And the ravens fans were cheated from the Super Bowl

Harbaugh and Cam are personal friends and until the owner gets rid of Cam the Ravens will still be the bridesmaid.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Gary the Critic' timestamp='1328039267' post='980769']
Personal relationships are again holding the Ravens from the Super Bowl

Billick and Kyle Boller and a personal relationship and Billick put it before the team. And the ravens fans were cheated from the Super Bowl

Harbaugh and Cam are personal friends and until the owner gets rid of Cam the Ravens will still be the bridesmaid.
[/quote]

Well, I see that you decided to pretend that Evans dropped the gamewinner, and that its Cam's fault that we're not in the big game. Interesting how people think that. Blame Cam all you want, but we'd be in Indianapolis had Evans caught that pass.

[Mr. GM]

The mindset of bring Jim Caldwell in as QB coach was not per se his many years of coaching, BUT the years Peyton Manning coached him! Thats it, thats all!

[codizzle]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1327967161' post='980117']


Wait .. fun? Oh yea .. football is supposed to be fun, isn't it ..... almost forgot that.
[/quote]
"Zero fun sir!!!"

[Purple Nurple]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1328040793' post='980802']
we'd be in Indianapolis had Evans caught that pass.
[/quote]
Quoted for truth. Cam, despite what many Chicken Littles here will claim, DID NOT drop that pass.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' timestamp='1328114961' post='981663']
Quoted for truth. Cam, despite what many Chicken Littles here will claim, DID NOT drop that pass.[/quote]

Chicken Littles also forget that Cam is the guy who called the play that put Lee Evans into single coverage in the end zone. Of course he won't get credit for that, but thought it was worth pointing out.

[Blex64]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1328040793' post='980802']

Well, I see that you decided to pretend that Evans dropped the gamewinner, and that its Cam's fault that we're not in the big game. Interesting how people think that. Blame Cam all you want, but we'd be in Indianapolis had Evans caught that pass.
[/quote]

You could easily argue that he did. It just wasn't ruled that way.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Gary the Critic' timestamp='1328039267' post='980769']
Personal relationships are again holding the Ravens from the Super Bowl

Billick and Kyle Boller and a personal relationship and Billick put it before the team. And the ravens fans were cheated from the Super Bowl

Harbaugh and Cam are personal friends and until the owner gets rid of Cam the Ravens will still be the bridesmaid.
[/quote]
[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090908190653/bmnc/images/8/86/Gary_the_snail.gif[/img]
Gary?

Anyway, as other people have stated it is fairly obvious that Cam isn't as bad as people make him out to be. Taking Ricky Williams out of the game when Rice was having a hard time was a mistake in retrospect, but what if he didn't do it? What if Cam left Williams in there and Williams lost some yards? Would we be saying that he should've given the ball more to Rice? Yes, we would.

It's ridiculous the amount of blame we place on some of these people. All teams do this. No team has a perfect coordinator. I seem to remember Cam calling a good game against Pittsburgh. I seem to remember him calling a good game against the Patriots where they almost lost! I mean, we can blame him all we want, but the bottom-line is he is our coordinator. Let's just move on from this subject. He is here to stay at least for this year. He took us to 2 AFC Championships. Let's see if he can take us the whole distance now.

Back on topic, I am very excited to see what Caldwell does for Flacco. He has impressive credentials coaching Manning to say the least. I think it says a lot about Joe for him to come here and coach Joe.

[Blex64]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1328117945' post='981727']
[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090908190653/bmnc/images/8/86/Gary_the_snail.gif[/img]
Gary?

Anyway, as other people have stated it is fairly obvious that Cam isn't as bad as people make him out to be. Taking Ricky Williams out of the game when Rice was having a hard time was a mistake in retrospect, but what if he didn't do it? What if Cam left Williams in there and Williams lost some yards? Would we be saying that he should've given the ball more to Rice? Yes, we would.

It's ridiculous the amount of blame we place on some of these people. All teams do this. No team has a perfect coordinator. I seem to remember Cam calling a good game against Pittsburgh. I seem to remember him calling a good game against the Patriots where they almost lost! I mean, we can blame him all we want, but the bottom-line is he is our coordinator. Let's just move on from this subject. He is here to stay at least for this year. He took us to 2 AFC Championships. Let's see if he can take us the whole distance now.

[b]Back on topic, I am very excited to see what Caldwell does for Flacco. He has impressive credentials coaching Manning to say the least. I think it says a lot about Joe for him to come here and coach Joe.[/b]
[/quote]

I am too, but the Jim Zorn situation throws up nothing but warning flags to me. If there's a philosophy clash we already know how the situation is going to play out, and Caldwell doesn't coach an Air Coryell so a collision is likely, to say the least. Cam has taken us to 2 AFC Championships, and he [i]did[/i] call a good game against the Patriots. Instead of letting Flacco sit in a collapsing pocket all day he called plays to get him out of it. He did a lot of things right...but the issue isn't the AFC Championship. The issue is the divisional playoff game, the Jaguars game, the Jets game, and the Seahawks game, and perhaps more importantly then all of this is his mentality. He doesn't listen to anyone. He believes audibles are "overrated," and he doesn't have any kind of report with his quarterback. I'm excited for Caldwell but I'm really not sure that he's going to have a happy ending with us no matter how badly I want him to.

[callahan09]

Interesting fact:

Out of 6 seasons played WITHOUT Jim Caldwell as QB Coach (1998-2001, 2009-2010), Peyton Manning threw 15+ interceptions in all of them.

Out of 7 seasons played WITH Jim Caldwell as QB Coach (2002-2008), Peyton Manning threw fewer than 15 interceptions in all of them.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1328117764' post='981722']

You could easily argue that he did. It just wasn't ruled that way.
[/quote]

And I could easily point you to the rulebook, which states that possession of the ball must be maintained through the catch.

[IMissMattStover]

This is quite a demotion for Caldwell. HC to QB Coach? That sucks for him, but he gets to join the greatest franchise in the NFL, so he has no room to complain.

[IMissMattStover]

[quote name='Mr. GM' timestamp='1328113455' post='981627']
The mindset of bring Jim Caldwell in as QB coach was not per se his many years of coaching, BUT the years Peyton Manning coached him! Thats it, thats all!
[/quote]

Wait a minute.....why does your signature say that the Ravens dont resign Rice? Are you crazy? even if you dont like him, the front office would never be stupid enough to let him go.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1328117645' post='981719']
Chicken Littles also forget that Cam is the guy who called the play that put Lee Evans into single coverage in the end zone. Of course he won't get credit for that, but thought it was worth pointing out.
[/quote]

He gets credit for that. He gets credit for a flawless game vs Pitt Week 1. The problem is, he wants credit when its due but never takes blame. In the same game where he called the play that set Evans up with single coverage in the end zone, he came out with the same 3 tired plays on offense, not once but twice, in a row. You know, because it worked so well the first time we went 3 and out. He also in the same game called a draw on 3rd and 3 when our QB was hot and when Wilfork had been living in our backfield all game. A draw play. And we won't even talk about the 4th down play. He also is the one who kept putting Dickson in when Pitta had the hot hands. Who cost us one first down with his drop (and it very well might have been 2 but I haven't watched the game again yet). These are opportunities to score that his play calling cost us in that very game.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1328134904' post='982109']
He gets credit for that. He gets credit for a flawless game vs Pitt Week 1. The problem is, he wants credit when its due but never takes blame. In the same game where he called the play that set Evans up with single coverage in the end zone, he came out with the same 3 tired plays on offense, not once but twice, in a row. You know, because it worked so well the first time we went 3 and out. He also in the same game called a draw on 3rd and 3 when our QB was hot and when Wilfork had been living in our backfield all game. A draw play. And we won't even talk about the 4th down play. He also is the one who kept putting Dickson in when Pitta had the hot hands. Who cost us one first down with his drop (and it very well might have been 2 but I haven't watched the game again yet). These are opportunities to score that his play calling cost us in that very game.
[/quote]

You say you haven't watched the game since that day but claim Cam called the same three plays the first three drives? Joe might have been sacked on all third downs, but the plays weren't the same at all.

I can agree with you on the draw call.

As for Dickson drop, how is it Cam's fault if the play he calls gets a TE open but that TE drops the ball? We bash the guy for his predictable play-calling(deservedly so at times), but criticize him when he switches things up? On top of that, Pitta tied for the team lead with 8 targets(including one after the Evans drop) to Dickson's 4. So it's not like Cam took Dennis out of the game-plan much.

[SilverMyst]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1327902142' post='979181']
They get Pagano... we get Caldwell...
[/quote]

not thats an even trade or depending on your views it just maybe a better one....Because our Defence is set and tuff.... for Flacco can be coached and become dare i say Greater....

[quote name='RayRiceRunningfortheRavns' timestamp='1327902327' post='979185']
This is.... acceptable. Coaching Peyton Manning is some great credentials. I really look forward to seeing how flacco develops this offseason.

Caldwell is a good coach, he's proven that throughout his career.
[/quote]

yes because he had Really good QB's that he made better....Can't take Crap cover the smell it still is Crap....but yes he can only teach Joe and make him Better....For some reason if joe has a great season i see everyone comparing him to Payton....


[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1327902347' post='979186']
Thought he was going to Steelers? Interesting.

Was QB coach at Penn state, Tampa and Indy. Followed Dungy I guess.

So we get a guy who has worked with Peyton Manning for 9 years? Not bad. Guess this will be a great gauge to rate Flacco on.
[/quote]

I'm quite sure he will turn flacco around if that is possible plus i also believe that he was also hired to keep Cam thinking....

[IMissMattStover]

I like the sucess he has had with QB coaching, i.e. Peyton. I hope he can help Joe shut the critics up.

[Blex64]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1328133372' post='982063']

And I could easily point you to the rulebook, which states that possession of the ball must be maintained through the catch.
[/quote]

And I could argue back that the catch is complete when the ball is in his hands and 2 feet are down on the ground so long as he has control of the ball at that time. That's why not reviewing it was so controversial - it was one of the most 50/50 things I've ever seen. Don't sit here and trash Lee for not making a catch while giving everyone else involved a free pass. He was stripped from his blind side after he thought the play was over. If the refs could review plays that need reviewing (or realize that a flag doesn't need to be thrown every time Brady throws a pick), we'd likely be in the Super Bowl. If Cameron wasn't a contender for worst coordinator in the NFL, we'd have won games we had no business losing (Jacksonville or Seattle) and the scoreboard would have been correct at the end of the game and we [b]would[/b] be in the Super Bowl. I'm not absolving Lee of all blame here, but he's something like 4th or 5th on my "list of people to blame the end of the season on." Cameron remains first. One good deed does not undo a career of wrongs, just like 1 bad deed doesn't undo a career of rights.

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1328117645' post='981719']
Chicken Littles also forget that Cam is the guy who called the play that put Lee Evans into single coverage in the end zone. Of course he won't get credit for that, but thought it was worth pointing out.
[/quote]

I think it's clear that what bothers many people is his situational play calling which at times boggles the mind.

You point to the route he called that got Evans open. And it was a good one, perfect play call and a better throw by Joe. In my opinion, for what that's worth, we should not have been in that position with the clock running down to begin with. Leach and Williams started to impose their will on the Pats OL. Williams takes a play right at Spikes that makes Spikes look like he has WELCOME written across his chest. You can literally see the Patriots folding up after holding for the most part all game. What does Cam do? He calls for a pass. We are moving the ball on the ground, we're eating up time (and the less time you give Brady the better). But you throw and it's not a good one; the ball is intercepted. The defense gets the ball back, but now you've lost field position and take about 3-4 minutes getting back to where you were. And you also re-energized the Patriots OL.

I think the defense getting that ball back combined with Evans and Cundiff saved Cameron's job. It gave the management an out. You can hear it in Biscotti and Ozzie during the State of the Ravens conference. They are laying this all at Evans' feet. They don't get the ball back and the Pats either score or run the clock out and whose feet do you lay it at? Without those final two plays, there weren't a lot of scapegoats to be found on that field.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1328135577' post='982128']

You say you haven't watched the game since that day but claim Cam called the same three plays the first three drives? Joe might have been sacked on all third downs, but the plays weren't the same at all.

I can agree with you on the draw call.

As for Dickson drop, how is it Cam's fault if the play he calls gets a TE open but that TE drops the ball? We bash the guy for his predictable play-calling(deservedly so at times), but criticize him when he switches things up? On top of that, Pitta tied for the team lead with 8 targets(including one after the Evans drop) to Dickson's 4. So it's not like Cam took Dennis out of the game-plan much.
[/quote]

Not 3 times in a row, twice in a row. Our first 2 offensive series were vitually the same 3 plays. Run up the gut, pass deep, oops, 3rd and long, drop to pass, sack. I know they were not ENTIRELY the same but close enough. Not to mention, that run on first down he runs 99.9% of the time on first down. Now, after those first 2 series, he did mix it up.

No he didn't take him out of the game plan altogether but why take him out? NE wasn't exactly stopping him.

The point is that we do give the man credit. I was on here giving him tons of credit for actually making half time adjustments after the Cardinals game. Something I am always criticizing him for not doing. When it comes time to take his share of the blame though, he throws the players under the bus (and Harbaugh as well) without fail. It is probably that which turns me off on him the most.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1328141255' post='982331']
Not 3 times in a row, twice in a row. Our first 2 offensive series were vitually the same 3 plays. Run up the gut, pass deep, oops, 3rd and long, drop to pass, sack. I know they were not ENTIRELY the same but close enough. Not to mention, that run on first down he runs 99.9% of the time on first down. Now, after those first 2 series, he did mix it up.

No he didn't take him out of the game plan altogether but why take him out? NE wasn't exactly stopping him.
[/quote]

My mistake. I didn't like that the first two plays on the first two drives were runs. That's Cam at his worst. But the second play on the both drives were actually short passes. As for third down, Joe opted to run on the first possession and got sacked on the second one. The sack was on him too. Grubbs getting being pushed back by Wilfork threw Joe off and led to the sack, but Lee and Torrey were open had he gone through his progressions quicker.

No, but Pitta still received twice as many targets as Dickson did. Outside of the drop and pass that Spikes picked off on, the other two passes to Dickson went for positive yardage.

[Passepartout]

Hopefully he can make Flacco turn into an elite passer.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1328142254' post='982358']

My mistake. I didn't like that the first two plays on the first two drives were runs. That's Cam at his worst. But the second play on the both drives were actually short passes. As for third down, Joe opted to run on the first possession and got sacked on the second one. The sack was on him too. Grubbs getting being pushed back by Wilfork threw Joe off and led to the sack, but Lee and Torrey were open had he gone through his progressions quicker.

No, but Pitta still received twice as many targets as Dickson did. Outside of the drop and pass that Spikes picked off on, the other two passes to Dickson went for positive yardage.
[/quote]

Hey, you can check the game thread, after those first 2 debacles on offense, I was praising Cam for his play calling. I have no issue giving the man his due. I think he coaches up young QBs very well. His conservative style lets them go out and play and doesn't put too much pressure on them. There comes a time though, when the QB outgrows Cam. This is where he is lacking. He just does not know when to loosen the grip. I believe we've outgrown him.

I'm happy we've brought in Caldwell, even if it's just a body between Cam and Joe. I just think that if there is a difference of opinion on what is best for our QB, Harbs will side with Cam and it will be Zorn all over again.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1328142639' post='982365']
Hey, you can check the game thread, after those first 2 debacles on offense, I was praising Cam for his play calling. I have no issue giving the man his due. I think he coaches up young QBs very well. His conservative style lets them go out and play and doesn't put too much pressure on them. [b]There comes a time though, when the QB outgrows Cam. This is where he is lacking. He just does not know when to loosen the grip. I believe we've outgrown him.[/b]

[b]I'm happy we've brought in Caldwell, even if it's just a body between Cam and Joe. I just think that if there is a difference of opinion on what is best for our QB, Harbs will side with Cam and it will be Zorn all over again.[/b]
[/quote]

I agree with you there.

Hoping it doesn't turn into another Zorn situation. It would look pretty bad on John and Cam's part if [i]another[/i] QB coach was forced out.

[Blex64]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1328143316' post='982378']

I agree with you there.

Hoping it doesn't turn into another Zorn situation. It would look pretty bad on John and Cam's part if [i]another[/i] QB coach was forced out.
[/quote]

At this point I don't see any reason to believe it won't. I guess its possible Caldwell will adapt to this system and teach Joe how to succeed here, but he's never coached it before and we're kind of exploring uncharted waters at this point.

[Ravenslifer]

What I'm hoping in addition to Caldwell teaching Joe is that having "less responsibility" will make Cam Cameron a better play-caller. He calls good things on occasion, but he's a terrible situational play-caller IMO. And hopefully he realizes at some point that it is legal to have 4 and 5 WR sets on the field.

[GrimCoconut]

I started thinking about this Caldwell acquisition today & thought of it beyond just Joe. Caldwell should do great for Flacco & his development, but what about Tyrod Taylor? Perhaps Caldwell improves Taylor as well so that we can use him as trade bait when some of these teams realize they don't have their guy. If we could make Taylor look good in some garbage time like Flynn did we could get value for him next year or the year after.

Just a thought.

[gotekiraven]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1327938840' post='979460']
I was referring to Caldwell.
[/quote]

That is a good point. Nobody knows except in the Steeler's organization how the interview with Cardwell went.