What Kind Of Offense Would You Run If You Were OC?

[RayRiceRunningfortheRavns]

[quote name='grantkyle2003' timestamp='1328025199' post='980568']
[/quote]

[b]I would mix up first downs with ethier passing quick slants or runs outside with a smaller back like rice.[/b]
[i]I agree. we're pretty predictable on first down. Need more 3 step drops.[/i]

[b]- Screens to utilize speed like torrey did in the AFC title game.[/b]
[i]I agree, Torrey has elite speed and acceleration. Use it for more than just go's[/i]

[b]- Bunch formations to help the recievers get open when there having difficulties seperating. The steelers do this alot to help brown and wallace.[/b]
[i]The formation is nice, but our receivers are pretty predictable anyways. Torrey, Boldin, and Pitta line up in a bunch formation. Guess who goes where...It works for Pittsburgh because of the versatility of their receivers. Ours, with the exception of Boldin, seem much like one trick ponies.[/i]

[b]- Do more no huddle drives to keep the defense tired and unable to sub and also get some quick points.[/b]
[i]We should start the game in no huddle, then run it for the last 4 minutes of each half, unless we need to desperately run out the clock. Flacco is a beast in no-huddle.[/i]

[b]- No settling for Field goals on turnovers, that is crucial, you have to make a team pay for turning the ball over[/b]
[i]This is too broad. You may have well said 'Score touchdowns on every drive.'[/i]

[b]- Take more shots down the field with speed like torrey.[/b]
[i]We take an awful lot of shots down field, i would not say that we need more of that at all. We need more balance and more boldin, not more incompletions.[/i]

[b]- More HB draws with joe in the shotgun.[/b]
[i]Not sure our O-line can handle that, especially after we replaced Birk with a turnstyle in the past couple games. This seems like a quick way to get more 3-5 yard losses.[/i]

[b]- Look at what the patriots and colts do with there offenses, They use the quick slants and screens to get alot of yac most of the time.[/b]
[i]I agree, but we don't have the personnel to mimic the pats or the colts (with manning). Boldin's great, but he's no Reggie Wayne. Pitta and Dickson are good, but i'd trade them both+ a 1st rounder for Gronk. [/i]

[b]- Also start doing the back shoulder pass. Not sure if our recievers can do this though.[/b]
[i]That's pretty standard. We can do it, and we have done it.[/i]

[PeRK82]

I would run a Throw first offense. Oh and an the last play you would see me run is the "i formation". Sorry Cam "i formation" Cameron ruined that for me.

Oh and i would have a bill belichick mentality , id go in for the kill. I would act like we were down by 3 TD, even if we were up by 4 tds and the game is pretty much done. Yes i would try to run the clock out, but that doesnt mean im going to run it over and over and over and over and over again. The clock still runs when a WR catches the ball.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RayRiceRunningfortheRavns' timestamp='1328042483' post='980841']
[b]- Bunch formations to help the recievers get open when there having difficulties seperating. The steelers do this alot to help brown and wallace.[/b]
[i]The formation is nice, but our receivers are pretty predictable anyways. Torrey, Boldin, and Pitta line up in a bunch formation. Guess who goes where...It works for Pittsburgh because of the versatility of their receivers. Ours, with the exception of Boldin, seem much like one trick ponies.[/i]
[/quote]

How are Pittsburgh's receivers versatile, while this team's are predictable? Wallace has added more routes to his arsenal the past two seasons, but his biggest threat is still his speed. The same goes for Torrey, and I'd say Smith is stronger than Wallace. Brown has some speed too and even more shiftiness. But Q, Evans, Dickson and Pitta aren't slouches with the ball in their hands.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='RayRiceRunningfortheRavns' timestamp='1328041807' post='980824']

[b]What i think we need to NOT do is go 4-5 wide. Flacco takes too long with his progressions to give him a huge number of receivers to go through. Put more tight ends on the field going 2 wide and get the TE's on routes that allow them to block for Rice if Flacco has to check down to him.[/b]
[/quote]


Your joking right, that's all we do now. Freaking i formation every single play. Im the total opposite of you, i would run alot of 4-5 wr set, Actually i would run a 4 wr set and have either Vonta or a TE to block for extra protection, so Flacco can go through his progression. Too many times, i see Rice in there TRYING to Block,lol. Do you remember Rice literally jumping out of the way when James Harris. came after Flacco. What a joke, and Rice actually was smiling after that play. I was fuming. We have better blockers than Rice, he doesnt have to be in the huddle on every play. Defenses know when we are going to run it or throw it. They arn't fooling Anyone, so put in Vonta.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='RavenousBG' timestamp='1327970177' post='980176']
I have no problem with his Offense. I have problems with his play calls. If some of his quirky calls worked more I would be more agreeable or if it really seemed innovative but it doesnt. I don't pretend to be any type of offensive genius but some innovation would help. Other offensive coordinators find ways to get less talented wideouts and TEs wide open. We see much less of that.[b] Many people talk about stack formations of the wideouts. I don't know if it would work but why not try it out?[/b] I just think we have the talent to be more and the odd play calls at odd times bother us all. That 3rd down draw play and I know everyone knows what play I am talking about says it all.
[/quote]

I think you might be thinking of Bunch formations, which i love. We actually did it alot in the preseason and in the beginning of the season. It was very effective, i have absolutely NO clue what so ever to why we stopped running it. In the bunch formations, we had 2 wrers running seam routes and it was Flaccos first read. It was very successful , i remember Boldin catching 1 or 2 and i remember Dickson catching a couple, i remember one was caught in the Stealers game but it was called back for a Flag. Dickson got rocked too. Think it was a catch for almost 20 some odd yards. Its in my Stealers @ RAVENS season opener game montage i made, even though it was called back, i still put it in there because it was a great throw and an even better catch in serious traffic and Dickson knew he was going to get rocked Hard and he still went after it and caught it.

[RayRiceRunningfortheRavns]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1328042878' post='980849']

How are Pittsburgh's receivers versatile, while this team's are predictable? Wallace has added more routes to his arsenal the past two seasons, but his biggest threat is still his speed. The same goes for Torrey, and I'd say Smith is stronger than Wallace. Brown has some speed too and even more shiftiness. But Q, Evans, Dickson and Pitta aren't slouches with the ball in their hands.
[/quote]

I agree, Q, Evans, Dickson and Pitta are good with the ball in their hands, but look at how they are used. Boldin and Evans are our two dynamic receivers who can do everything. Flacco works well with Boldin, not so much with Evans, so really, we have one reliable and dynamic receiver. Awesome. You know the issues with Dickson, and Pitta, while he has amazing hands, isn't open very much. You know those plays where flacco holds on to the ball forever, waiting for someone to get open? Its because defenses know how to play our receivers.

Pittsburgh has one of the best receiving corps in the NFL. they have 2 guys who are fast and can do everything who both have great rapport with their QB, and two other guys who run great routes and have great hands. And Heath Miller is like Todd Heap without the injuries. And just because Wallace and Brown are fast, doesn't mean that all they run is nine's. They catch the ball all over the place. Don't compare our receivers with theirs, they outclass us there.



[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1328043498' post='980867']

Your joking right, that's all we do now. Freaking i formation every single play. Im the total opposite of you, i would run alot of 4-5 wr set, Actually i would run a 4 wr set and have either Vonta or a TE to block for extra protection, so Flacco can go through his progression. Too many times, i see Rice in there TRYING to Block,lol. Do you remember Rice literally jumping out of the way when James Harris. came after Flacco. What a joke, and Rice actually was smiling after that play. I was fuming. We have better blockers than Rice, he doesnt have to be in the huddle on every play. Defenses know when we are going to run it or throw it. They arn't fooling Anyone, so put in Vonta.
[/quote]


Flacco, in your system, is going to spend a lot of time on his [profanity deleted]. I want more 3 step drops and quick releases. You're asking for one more guy to stay back and pass protect when Oher and Birk aren't even bothering to collect toll before letting D-linemen past them. We don't have a good O-line, we need to play away from that weakness, not ignore it. Having the Tight Ends in instead of WR's allow for better pass protection if Flacco sees blitz. He can't audible to a new play, but I know he can change his protection.

Also: if we put in Vonta alone in the backfield every time we're passing, defenses will catch on and drop more linebackers into coverage. At least with Rice people recognize that we might be running it or throwing it and have to guess to a degree. If we're going to put someone in the backfield to block, at least make it Ricky Williams.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='RayRiceRunningfortheRavns' timestamp='1328044704' post='980905']

Flacco, in your system, is going to spend a lot of time on his [profanity deleted]. I want more 3 step drops and quick releases. You're asking for [b]one more guy to stay back and pass protect when Oher and Birk aren't even bothering to collect toll before letting D-linemen past them. We don't have a good O-line, we need to play away from that weakness, not ignore it[/b]. Having the Tight Ends in instead of WR's allow for better pass protection if Flacco sees blitz. He can't audible to a new play, but I know he can change his protection.

Also: if we put in Vonta alone in the backfield every time we're passing, defenses will catch on and drop more linebackers into coverage. At least with Rice people recognize that we might be running it or throwing it and have to guess to a degree. If we're going to put someone in the backfield to block, at least make it[b] Ricky Williams[/b].
[/quote]

Well , wouldn't that be the O LINES fault, i dont know about you, but i wouldn't put up with that crap. Birk does block but in the pats game, he was getting Pancaked by Wilfork the whole entire game, i dont blame Birk for that. The guy was trying, as an O.C wouldn't you try and Double Team Wilfork. Oher on the other hand is another story, honestly, i dont care about his history, movie, what ever. He would not be playing for this team. There was a play where they only rushed 3 guys , Oher picked up a block and then for some reason let him go and went to try and block the other guy and ended up block no one and causing Flacco to get sacked. It was complete stupidity if you ask me. That was in the PATS game, if your not sure what game i was talking about. Don't get me started on his False starts, they have gotten better but dam man, come on. I already heard the b.s where " its because he is too fast" that sounds like a load of crap, if he is that fast, then why is he even jumping the gun when he is supposedly that fast and wouldn't that mean he would be fast enough to pick up the block without having to try and get an edge on the Pass Rusher.

And for Ricky, i dont know, yes he can block but i havnt seen him or don't remeber him Catching a ball when it was thrown to him and making positive yardage. He either didn't catch it or he got rocked catching it. Vonta on the other hand has proved he can catch, in the beginning of the Season , he really wasn't or he was but only getting 2 yds max everytime. Then by mid season, he was starting to atleast get 8 yds, if not more.

[SecretAgentMan]

Same offense, except more expanded than End Arounds and Fly Routes. Run First, no doubt.

[RayRiceRunningfortheRavns]

We have a difference in philosophy. If i see my o-line has a problem, i don't keep calling plays that let the defense take advantage of that problem and wait for my line to get better. I recognize the weakness and call plays where the ball comes out quicker.

As for your point about Ricky, he's an okay receiver. He's gotten a couple passes to him, but that's not the point. The point is to make the defense guess as to whether you're passing or running, and if you are passing, to have the best possible protection. Okay, we won't run, but we'll have better protection than if we had stuck with Rice AND your defensive playcall might have been off.

[RayRiceRunningfortheRavns]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1328045223' post='980919']
Same offense, except more expanded than End Arounds and Fly Routes. Run First, no doubt.
[/quote]

I honestly think end-arounds have a place in our offense. Torrey has some wheels on him and we can line our tight ends outside with Boldin to block for him.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RayRiceRunningfortheRavns' timestamp='1328044704' post='980905']
I agree, Q, Evans, Dickson and Pitta are good with the ball in their hands, but look at how they are used. Boldin and Evans are our two dynamic receivers who can do everything. Flacco works well with Boldin, not so much with Evans, so really, we have one reliable and dynamic receiver. Awesome. You know the issues with Dickson, and Pitta, while he has amazing hands, isn't open very much. You know those plays where flacco holds on to the ball forever, waiting for someone to get open? Its because defenses know how to play our receivers.

Pittsburgh has one of the best receiving corps in the NFL. they have 2 guys who are fast and can do everything who both have great rapport with their QB, and two other guys who run great routes and have great hands. And Heath Miller is like Todd Heap without the injuries. And just because Wallace and Brown are fast, doesn't mean that all they run is nine's. They catch the ball all over the place. Don't compare our receivers with theirs, they outclass us there.
[/quote]

The WRs have trouble separating by themselves, but Cam doesn't remedy that issue nearly enough with all the go routes he calls. One benefit of bunch formations(the focus of the post I quoted) is that the intended target can get a free release or get some separation from the DB in the clutter of bodies. Chemistry and/or a lack of athleticism aren't as important on those plays. Had Cam been a more creative play-caller, he would have gotten Q, Evans, Torrey and the TEs opportunities in the bunch more often.

Miller isn't Heap without the injuries. He's one of the better blocking TEs and underrated receiver, but he's no Heap when it comes to catching the football.

I never claimed this team's WRs are better than Pittsburgh's, so I don't see where your last sentence is coming from. I questioned you on how this team's WRs are "predictable". How they're used is. But their skill-sets aren't.

[RayRiceRunningfortheRavns]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1328045973' post='980942']

The WRs have trouble separating by themselves, but Cam doesn't remedy that issue nearly enough with all the go routes he calls. One benefit of bunch formations(the focus of the post I quoted) is that the intended target can get a free release or get some separation from the DB in the clutter of bodies. Chemistry and/or a lack of athleticism aren't as important on those plays. Had Cam been a more creative play-caller, he would have gotten Q, Evans, Torrey and the TEs opportunities in the bunch more often.

Miller isn't Heap without the injuries. He's one of the better blocking TEs and underrated receiver, but he's no Heap when it comes to catching the football.

[b]I never claimed this team's WRs are better than Pittsburgh's, so I don't see where your last sentence is coming from. I questioned you on how this team's WRs are "predictable". How they're used is. But their skill-sets aren't.[/b]
[/quote]

A player is only as good as the way that they are used. All WR's skill sets are predictable. Everyone knows Smith is FAST, Boldin is very physical, and Pitta catches everything thrown at him. Everyone knows Wallace and Brown are also fast and great route runners. no surprises there, anybody can watch film and figure that out. The real issue with 'predictability' comes from scheme, which is where we aren't consistently good.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RayRiceRunningfortheRavns' timestamp='1328046552' post='980961']
A player is only as good as the way that they are used. All WR's skill sets are predictable. Everyone knows Smith is FAST, Boldin is very physical, and Pitta catches everything thrown at him. Everyone knows Wallace and Brown are also fast and great route runners. no surprises there, anybody can watch film and figure that out. The real issue with 'predictability' comes from scheme, which is where we aren't consistently good.
[/quote]

I highly disagree that players are only as good as how they're utilized. But regardless, you wrote, "[i]It works for Pittsburgh because of the versatility of their receivers. Ours, with the exception of Boldin, seem much like one trick ponies.[/i]"

I don't see how they're receivers are any more versatile than this team's.

[RayRiceRunningfortheRavns]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1328046855' post='980969']

I highly disagree that players are only as good as how they're utilized. But regardless, you wrote, "[i]It works for Pittsburgh because of the versatility of their receivers. Ours, with the exception of Boldin, seem much like one trick ponies.[/i]"

I don't see how they're receivers are any more versatile than this team's.
[/quote]

you're probably right, there are the occasional receivers like Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson or Megatron who seem to do well no matter what. We don't have one of those guys. Our receivers rarely make something out of nothing like those guys do.

The Steelers receivers are, as a group, faster, drop less passes, better route runners, and are more in sync with their QB. Do you 0want to argue any of these points? We have two speedsters, and one is unreliable and was injured most of the season. They have two speedsters that are both very reliable. they have sanders and cotchery, who are not the fastest WR's, but they are good route runners with great hands. We have two guys with great hands, but they have problems getting open. They all understand what to do and are able to get open when Ben has to scramble. Ours seem to have issues getting open when Joe is facing pressure, hence a lot of the sacks.

Now, i'm not hating on our receivers, i understand that they are not the best group out there, but they are good and mostly young and will get better. Until then, the scheme has to improve towards their current strengths.

[The Raven]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1328042703' post='980846']
I would run a Throw first offense. Oh and an the last play you would see me run is the "i formation". Sorry Cam "i formation" Cameron ruined that for me.

Oh and i would have a bill belichick mentality , id go in for the kill. I would act like we were down by 3 TD, even if we were up by 4 tds and the game is pretty much done. Yes i would try to run the clock out, but that doesnt mean im going to run it over and over and over and over and over again. The clock still runs when a WR catches the ball.
[/quote]

Agree with everything except taking out the I-form. It can be a challenge to run efficiently without a fullback, espcially when your fullback is a probowler. I don't see what your beef is with the I at all. The Saints use the I... Why can't we again? Just because your in the I doesn't prove it'll be a run, but I guess people assume crazy things when talking about Cam.

Btw, wouldn't taking out the I make our offense even more one dimensional?

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1328045106' post='980917']

Well , wouldn't that be the O LINES fault, i dont know about you, but i wouldn't put up with that crap. Birk does block but in the pats game, he was getting Pancaked by Wilfork the whole entire game, i dont blame Birk for that. The guy was trying, as an O.C wouldn't you try and Double Team Wilfork. Oher on the other hand is another story, honestly, i dont care about his history, movie, what ever. He would not be playing for this team. There was a play where they only rushed 3 guys , Oher picked up a block and then for some reason let him go and went to try and block the other guy and ended up block no one and causing Flacco to get sacked. It was complete stupidity if you ask me. That was in the PATS game, if your not sure what game i was talking about. Don't get me started on his False starts, they have gotten better but dam man, come on. I already heard the b.s where " its because he is too fast" that sounds like a load of crap, if he is that fast, then why is he even jumping the gun when he is supposedly that fast and wouldn't that mean he would be fast enough to pick up the block without having to try and get an edge on the Pass Rusher.

And for Ricky, i dont know, yes he can block but i havnt seen him or don't remeber him Catching a ball when it was thrown to him and making positive yardage. He either didn't catch it or he got rocked catching it. Vonta on the other hand has proved he can catch, in the beginning of the Season , he really wasn't or he was but only getting 2 yds max everytime. Then by mid season, he was starting to atleast get 8 yds, if not more.
[/quote]

On Oher, he actually made the right decision to take the blitzing linebacker instead. In pass protection, the offensive lineman's primary responsibility (on most calls) is inside gap first. Mentally, he made the right move, but he didn't EXECUTE it well.

[cobrajet]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1327907395' post='979230']
I would run a variant of the West Coast, with a bit more deep passing thrown in there than normal. I'm not high on Dickson, so while I would run a two TE single back set from time to time, we'd be running three wide or more most of the time. I-form usage would be cut down tremendously, as it seems Cam uses it every series. As good as Leach is, I think Rice would have more luck hitting open running lanes if we established the pass to set up the run. Running three wide out of an Ace set can be just as effective for breaking off the run, if not more so, when you actually let you QB do what he's paid to do, which Cam does not. Instead of go routes constantly, there would be a lot more slants and crossing routes in my offense. More importantly though, even trumping what I view to be a superior offensive system in and of itself, I would give Flacco complete and total control of the offense. I'd get the play in immediately so they had time to set up, he could actually make the pre-snap read and audible to what he wanted based on what the defense is showing. If Cam just granted Joe that, without changing anything else, our offense might actually be serviceable.

I doubt a lot of the fans would like my offense though, because the ball is going to be out of Rice's hands and into Flacco's. We'd be rocking around a 60/40 run/pass split and trusting our QB, because that's the only way to get to the big show in today's league.
[/quote]

Agreed, we think alike.

[indianstick]

I think west coast would be the best type of offense with our personel. Short, quick passes working the middle of the field, with crossing routes as well but we would still take the occasional shots down field to stretch the defense. I would still make sure the offense is ran through ray rice he is easily our best offensive playmaker and for the offense to be successful he needs at least 20-30 touches.

I would def do a lot of 3-4 reciever sets and shotguns with boldin in the slot. I would have pitta and dickson split wide at times in bunch formations and motion would be a big part of the offense so joe can really tell if its zone or man.We would run a lot from theese formations since dickson and/or pitta would be able to provide run blocking. So it would be hard for the D to tell whether we are gonna pass or run. Also dickson and pitta would block and release a lot which would give joe some extra protection to go through his progressions and then he would have check downs too.

Wr screens would be used a lot esp with teams giving torrey tons of space. I don't know what the run pass would be because it really depends on the game. The ONLY thing i like about cam is that if the pass is working he will keep passing, if the run is working he will keep running. We shouldn't abandon either dimension of the football and balance is key but if the line is continuing to open up holes than keep letting them, and if boldin is continuingly getting open and then keep letting him.

Flacco would get the green light to basically do whatever he wants. I feel like the offense should be his more than anyone elses and it would work if he really understands the idea of getting ray rice and everyone involved. We have the personel to cause mismatches so it is key to take advantage of that.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1328051638' post='981074']




[b]On Oher, he actually made the right decision to take the blitzing linebacker instead.[/b] In pass protection, the offensive lineman's primary responsibility (on most calls) is inside gap first. Mentally, he made the right move, but he didn't EXECUTE it well.
[/quote]


That wasn't really my complaint, my complaint is he ended up missing both Blocks. He would have had a good block on the first guy.


And my complaint on the i formation is, its hurting the passing game. It'll be 3 and really long, beyond 10 yds and they will line up in the i, knowing dam well that isnt fooling anyone. A better play in that sit. would be a Bunch formation imo. I just sick of his stupid play calling. There isn't anything wrong with the plays per say, i have more of a problem with the play calling, the plays are always at the wrong time.

It is what it is. I just have 0 expectation for this offense next yr. What i mean by that is, i expect the exact same thing we saw this passed season and i hate it.

[grantkyle2003]

I really expect more of the same too. Ever since 2008 the play calling has regressed minus a few games here and there. Now there are 2 sides to this argument:

one side is cam really has no more tricks up his sleeve and is jsut calling standard plays hoping one or 2 add up to scores. Also hoping ray can bust a long run from time to time. Also you could add maybe cams system really doesnt help this team at all.

the other side is the offensive players really have no grasp of the playcalling and if they could get better seperation and the oline could block maybe week 1 against the steelers would be every week.


But bottom line I expect more of the same honestly despite what weapons we add for joe and lets face it this is going to be a defensive favored draft for the team. Dickson and Torrey really need to work on catching the ball more and learning how to pull it in regardless where there at. I would love for someone like mason or chris carter to come in and show thehm how to run routes and catch but Im dreaming on that one.

[ravensfan520]

I think we need to stick with the system we have but add more boot legs or roll out plays that get Joe moving out the pocket. I wish that we could run quick slants, quick outs, and te 1 on1 vs. the LB/safety freeing the field for the deep ball over the top... but I think by watching Joe I noticed that most of Joe's interceptions where in the middle of the field or on quick passes. Joe throws the deep ball well and when he is on the move... I would use more 3 rec sets and a few 4 but using Dickson or Pitta split out... Boldin or our tide ends in the slot should be automatic.

We could run more double move routes but Joe tends to lock onto his receiver to long or doesnt pump fake and sell the move allowing DB's or LBs to react... or doesn't go through his progressions enough and allows the pocket to collapse taking a sack. I sometimes feel like he knows who he is going to throw to once the play is called and will stick with it even if they are covered.

I would also like to go back to more counter runs because our running backs are very good at cut backs and we have a big line that can push the d around(resign Gurode or draft a more mobile Guard to play center like Jason Brown was)and use more pulling guards with Yanda and hopefully Grubbs and use Leach to clear the back side for the cut backs... just some thoughts.

Maybe throw in the Suggs package some for a little wrinkle to keep everyone off balance.