What Is More Important To You People?

[bossman419]

i don't hate troy... flacco has the job now why take it from him. granted, if he has 1 or 2 more games like this, his a$$ is grass and harbs is the mower. i see this as a good learning experience and this game experience will help him in the long run. everyone knows troy is a gamer but can he do better with less than stellar reciviers and and sub par o line? (don't give me that he can scramble crap)

have you guys ever played a sport where you had to ride the pine? did you enjoy/learn anything? i dont think its much different here

[bossman419]

[quote name='Byrdz' post='75945' date='Oct 13 2008, 06:37 PM']im with ravensIQ all who roots for flacco dont even give troy a chance yall all hyped up over two games where we played nobobdy how about yall let troy get at least 5 games in then rip his head off. but yall didnt give him a chance last year nor this year. i dont want to hear about ya negativity about troy with starters or without we have have to play. that being said at least troy scored on Indy last year he even made at willis look good he would have had two Tds if figurs didnt miss the ball. so who said a 5th round pick cant start in this league colston was the last person taken in his draft and is better than all our Wrs to your point is not making sense. I wanna win now and its not even about me its about giving the best D in the last 11 years three rings or more. yall so stubborn to admit that troy wont turn the ball over as many times as flacco. and winning does start with the Qb position.

How many TO the Qb have will drasticly change the out come of the game. as many times we had a chance to score we would have blown Indy out the water. our D isnt here to stop people all game we were built to give our O a chance to win ya know get more offensive possesions than the other team.

yeah we all know troy and flacco is gonna have their ups and downs no matter who starts but its consistency that matters flacco has showed us that he can play duh he wouldnt be here if he couldnt. yall all say dont use numbers to prove a point but yall do it any way so u contradict yourselfs. yall want flacco to start the same flacco that couldnt beat Tyler Thigpin out forthe starting job in Pit. out of all of troys games he did well except that one title game that you all judge him off of. If he wasnt that good would he have won the heismen and no its not that that matter in this case. Its the different attributes they both bring i keep reading (oh flacco is gonna be the next Big Ben or Carlson or peyton) theres only 1 ben only 1 carlson only 1 peyton so stop compairing him to them just cause manning strugled his rookie year doesnt imply nothing but maning was garbage his rookie year . if you theory was right then Klye should be busting out right about now. You throw a Qb in the fire then ya get burnt you all know that if flacco was so special we would be 5-0. How can Flacco be compaired to Ben. Ben is Ben because he can avoid sacks. Peyton is Peyton cause he can read Defenses well so stop insulting ben or peyton with ya comparisons.

Reading these threads all Flacco fans just know for sure like they got a crystal ball somewhere that he is gonna be great right after he bites the dust. Now That a dumb fan. Well Manning threw 28tds and 29 ints, Flacco isnt even on pace for 28 Tds. Lets go Flacco 5 games whether starters was in or not 2 Tds (run&throw) 8 INts, Long 54 yards. Troy 2 games 2Tds 0 Ints Long 76 yards and may i add it was to mason against trufant. You all say that troy is not the answer how do you know if he never really got a shot he sat for a whole year learned from McNair which can prove to be useful. Flacco sat 0 years and is learning from loses ( i dont wanna hear bouman) which is costing us as a Raven fan we shouldnt have to waste a whole season on 1 person. You ask win now or later The Cards ar in the same water do they waste a year developing Matt or we win now with Kurt. Dont take a rocket scientist to figure out that winning now will translate into developement and winning later ( if your Qb dont retire).

There is nothing you can bring to the table that says Troy is destined for failureand there is nothing you can bring that says Flacco is destined for Greatness. every is not the same, so that doesnt mean if flacco struggles now he will fill out next year how about this year breaks him like kyle then what? answer that one. I read someone saying that after he throws 29 ints he will ten come into the role thats not true. many of you talk about Derek Anderson doing good then him doing bad this year he is having a bad year like not one has ever had a bad game. last year shows that he is capable of doing good and when dude said that troy can be another derek anderson he ment troy leaving us like derek did and go onto to prove that he can play. we let a good Qb slip through our hands and derek is good he cant help the fact the people cant catch[/quote]
im guessing you didn't pay much attention in english class

[TXRaven]

I want to win now but I realize that the maturation of a rookie QB does not happen over night, So I will be patiant and win alot more later. The investment will be worth it.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Troy SmiTH Xx' post='75896' date='Oct 13 2008, 05:00 PM'][b]What do you expect from a defense thats out on the field 90% of the time.[/b] Even Ray Lewis gets tired every now and then. Especially, when th offense doesn't help. That's why turnovers always kill us. We aren't blessed to have a pretty good defense with a great offense, like the Indianapolis Colts. We just have a Dominate Defense. That's it...

If we had a semi-good offense, with a semi-good quarterback, I bet we could've had at least 2 super bowl titles by now.[/quote]

This statement could not be more false, especially this year. This is the only game on the year that our offense did not tie TOP or completely dominate TOP. There is no excuse for our D lapsing. I dont care about what could have or what should have been. I am worried about how they are playing right now. And right now they are not playing so hot.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Byrdz' post='75947' date='Oct 13 2008, 06:40 PM']we were taking up the slack for the offense for years. if our D allow 30 points so they can have a bad game we dont just stop teams all day we give our offense a chance to score more than the other teams and three point wont win no game the d didnt let a big play every play so they did the part[/quote]

Keeping 31 points off the board is not doing their part. Again, this is not about what could have or should have been this is about today. Anyone with half a brain has to admit that the way the defense has played over the last 6 quarters is a cause for concern at the very least. Its not like the defense was on the field all day and just broke down and gave up 20 some points in the 4th. No, they gave up big plays in the 1st.

[Byrdz]

[quote name='bossman419' post='75976' date='Oct 13 2008, 07:38 PM']im guessing you didn't pay much attention in english class[/quote]
after all that typing thats all you can say that mean im right and u cant come back from that. this isnt english class so hop off

[Byrdz]

[quote name='neepo13' post='75990' date='Oct 13 2008, 08:27 PM']This statement could not be more false, especially this year. This is the only game on the year that our offense did not tie TOP or completely dominate TOP. There is no excuse for our D lapsing. I dont care about what could have or what should have been. I am worried about how they are playing right now. And right now they are not playing so hot.[/quote]
no that was our D holding the other teams O get it right

[Byrdz]

[quote name='neepo13' post='75992' date='Oct 13 2008, 08:29 PM']Keeping 31 points off the board is not doing their part. Again, this is not about what could have or should have been this is about today. Anyone with half a brain has to admit that the way the defense has played over the last 6 quarters is a cause for concern at the very least. Its not like the defense was on the field all day and just broke down and gave up 20 some points in the 4th. No, they gave up big plays in the 1st.[/quote]
so what are you trying to say about our D now when flacco bites the dust our D is the blame the D hold us down soo long that they can take the year oof and let the O earn its money

[Marc2k6]

People who think winning now is everything are the people who sell there tickets to Steeler'fan when we are not having a block buster season. They are to mad to come out so they watch from coach and cpmplain more and more. Building this team to win with Harbaugh new vision should be the most important thing.which may take more time than what some people think but I will still be here and I will have some opinions on what I think is best in my mind. Most important I will still be here!

[neepo13]

[quote name='Byrdz' post='76300' date='Oct 14 2008, 08:09 PM']no that was our D holding the other teams O get it right[/quote]

This makes no sense at all. So, you mean in the first again against the Bengals it was our defense that held the ball for 8 minutes to end the game? It was our defense that did the same thing against the Browns? No that was the offense. The offense has to do SOMETHING to have TOP go in our favor. I've seen enough Ravens teams to know that. In the past even when our D did get off the field quickly our offense would go 3 and out and the D would be right back out there. And TOP would indicate that. TOP is how long the offense is on the field. If they tie TOP or dominate TOP they are doing part of their job and keeping the defense on the sideline.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Byrdz' post='76303' date='Oct 14 2008, 08:10 PM']so what are you trying to say about our D now when flacco bites the dust our D is the blame the D hold us down soo long that they can take the year oof and let the O earn its money[/quote]

You can try to pin this on Flacco all you want but the fact of the matter is he isnt the only one to blame. Yes, he played a big role in it but it doesnt matter how the offense does, when your D gives up 20+ points in the first half and allows the opposing offense to constantly drive the field 80 yards, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO WIN. You people are so caught up in defending the defense that you dont even realize that we have major problems on that side of the ball. Its been two games in a row that the opposing offense has been able to drive the field and score on us when we desperatly needed a stop. Does the offense need to step up? YES! But that does not excuse the defenses poor play.

[rayvenfan_52]

Id go with win later. Longterm is the best option for us now. I mean cmon. You dont expect us to go to the Super Bowl and win with a rookie QB.

If we ever did that the 1st person to PM me would get my account for an anime site where you could watch anime for free using my account. and no Im not 30 years old im still very young.

[Byrdz]

[quote name='neepo13' post='76309' date='Oct 14 2008, 08:22 PM']This makes no sense at all. So, you mean in the first again against the Bengals it was our defense that held the ball for 8 minutes to end the game? It was our defense that did the same thing against the Browns? No that was the offense. The offense has to do SOMETHING to have TOP go in our favor. I've seen enough Ravens teams to know that. In the past even when our D did get off the field quickly our offense would go 3 and out and the D would be right back out there. And TOP would indicate that. TOP is how long the offense is on the field. If they tie TOP or dominate TOP they are doing part of their job and keeping the defense on the sideline.[/quote]
holding the ball for 8 minutes is bad most good offenses score in lesser time than tha so ur not really saying anything u think Peyton take 8 minutes to score every Td no.

[Byrdz]

[quote name='neepo13' post='76313' date='Oct 14 2008, 08:27 PM']You can try to pin this on Flacco all you want but the fact of the matter is he isnt the only one to blame. Yes, he played a big role in it but it doesnt matter how the offense does, when your D gives up 20+ points in the first half and allows the opposing offense to constantly drive the field 80 yards, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO WIN. You people are so caught up in defending the defense that you dont even realize that we have major problems on that side of the ball. Its been two games in a row that the opposing offense has been able to drive the field and score on us when we desperatly needed a stop. Does the offense need to step up? YES! But that does not excuse the defenses poor play.[/quote]
they won from 13 points the D held them enough for us to win, what is you saying is it me or does any nfl offense should score more than 13 points thats 1 td and two Fgs in a sixty minute game come on just hop off flacco's third leg

[Ravenoid]

[quote name='RavensIQ' post='75821' date='Oct 13 2008, 11:56 AM']What's to say we can't win now and later?

Who put the handcuffs on that possibility?

Where does it say the best way to develop a QB is by starting him his rookie year?

Where does it say if you win now you can't win later?

This is BS and most of us realize that.

Playing a QB his 1st year or sitting him his 1st year or 4years has worked both ways. So why is it the Ravens are the only team excluded from this equation?

Why is it that we have to sacrifice the opportunity of making the playoffs (once in the playoffs an opportunity at the SB) just because Playing Flacco "might" make him better. Sitting and learning "might" make him better. Are your expectations really that low that you only think our team can only win now or later?

You even acknowledged our team could win now by starting this thread. So why wouldn't you want them to?? Has anyone seen Aaron Rodgers of late?? Has anyone seen Phillip Rivers of late?? The up and coming premier Qbs of this league and they both sat their rookie season.

What's more important?

WINNING NOW

tomorrows not promised.[/quote]
YES! Tomorrow isn't promised. How many times have teams went through a rebuilding and never came out of it. Cleveland, Cincinnati, Oakland, Washington (just now getting back). When you pick a QB from Delaware he's not supposed to start as a rookie. You have to expect him to sit for a couple of years just to come up to speed. We were a veteran quarterback away from being a playoff team. Daunte Culpepper is looking mighty good right now.

[FerrariFan87]

The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately?" league. Wasn't the promo prior to this season "Believe in Now" or something to that effect? Every year each team must go into the season with the mindset that we can win the Superbowl and do everything possible to achieve said goal. Only once that is unattainable should anyone start to talk about NEXT season... and to answer your question, I would trade a playoff berth this season for a couple SB berths in the next 6-7 years any day.

[Troy SmiTH Xx]

How about winning now, and for the next decade?

[ravensgirlx88]

Get used to it, SADLY there is ALOT of negaitivity on these boards. Im on here to be a fan and support what my team doe's 100%!! Flacco is (I THINK) the guy of the future. To me.. It's more important to this year just build as a team and come out with a vengance next season.. (:

[Rinbee]

[quote name='Marc2k6' post='76305' date='Oct 14 2008, 08:12 PM']People who think winning now is everything are the people who sell there tickets to Steeler'fan when we are not having a block buster season. They are to mad to come out so they watch from coach and cpmplain more and more. Building this team to win with Harbaugh new vision should be the most important thing.which may take more time than what some people think but I will still be here and I will have some opinions on what I think is best in my mind. Most important I will still be here![/quote]

Some posters say that those who complain are not suppporting the team. Complaining (er, offering constructive criticism) means you care and you're involved. Selling tix to Pitt fans (or fans of any other team) are the ones not supporting the team. That's treason, pure and simple. If you only care about winning or losing, youreally don't care about the game. So, forget about the game and just open the sports section on Mon morning to check the standings. I hate losing, but the reality is, this is not the NBA or NHL where most teams (it seems) make it to the playoffs. Enjoy each game for what it is and look forward to better times when we are losing. There's always next week or next season!

[Rinbee]

[quote name='ravensgirlx88' post='76408' date='Oct 15 2008, 08:36 AM']Get used to it, SADLY there is ALOT of negaitivity on these boards. Im on here to be a fan and support what my team doe's 100%!! Flacco is (I THINK) the guy of the future. To me.. It's more important to this year just build as a team and come out with a vengance next season.. (:[/quote]

I think every year is a rebuilding year in a sense -- players come and go or get hurt. To me rebuilding can be a cop-out, especially by managment who wants to make excuses for not winning. On any given week you play with what you have, make every effort to win, learn from your losses and make adjustments. If you're not playing to win then you are just extending your preseason. I don't want to watch NFL players practice on Sunday, I want to see them [b]trying[/b][i][/i] to win. As long as they are making an honest effort, I can suck up the losses. Enjoy the game and hope for the best.

[Apurple&orangeMD]

i dont see why we cant win now and win in the future....lets do both because ray adn alot of people on this team wana wim know!!!!!!!!!!!

[JO_75]

[quote name='tweety' post='75811' date='Oct 13 2008, 12:28 PM']The next 4 games are almost sure wins looking at 6-3
[color="#FF0000"]Dolphins
Raiders
Browns
Texans[/color]
After we have a tougher schedule hopefully Flacco will improve and secondary will be healthier Landry, Rolle, and Washington back
[color="#FF0000"]Giants
Eagles
Bengals
Redskins
Steelers
Cowboys
Jaguars[/color][/quote]


That's exactly how I have it. The Ravens should be 6-3 after the next 4 games. After Monday Night, if the Browns can beat the Giants than that should give the Ravens hope that they can beat the Giants as long as the Eli Manning of the Super Bowl run don't show up and we get the Eli that showed up Monday Night.

Here's how I think it will go:
Giants- Win(Matt Stover will probably have to kick a last second FG) record: 7-3
Eagles- Lost Record 7-4
Bengals Win Record 8-4
Redskins Im in a toss up but I will say Win 9-4
Steelers- by this point Ben should be on the IR list so thats a win 10-4
Cowboys- Lose Record 10-5
Jaguars: This could go either way so they will end up 10-6 or 11-5. They should win the division with this record or if not take one of the wild card spots.

[noy]

ahaha you know who the delusional fans are...the ones that think ANY game for the Ravens is a gimme win.

Seriously, NONE of the Ravens games are gimme wins. Why? Because we have a subpar offense. Gimme wins are entitled to teams like the Cowboys, the Giants, the Saints etc (and as we can see, they can even slip up). Let's compare...does saying "the Saints will no doubt win against the Raiders" feel as confident as saying "the Ravens will no doubt win against the Raiders". No....because their offense is disgusting. Now am I saying you need a sick offense in order to judge what will be auto wins? No. But it certainly gives one more confidence in saying it. And besides, our offense is less than mediocre, so nobody should even be hinting at the prospect of auto wins.

Defense no longer wins games, the NFL is offensive minded, hence the rules hence all the good offensive teams doing well. Sorry to say it guys but 2000 will never happen again (winning a sb with nothing but defense), not in how football has evolved.

[YABOY]

[quote name='noy' post='76443' date='Oct 15 2008, 11:16 AM']ahaha you know who the delusional fans are...the ones that think ANY game for the Ravens is a gimme win.

Seriously, NONE of the Ravens games are gimme wins. Why? Because we have a subpar offense. Gimme wins are entitled to teams like the Cowboys, the Giants, the Saints etc (and as we can see, they can even slip up). Let's compare...does saying "the Saints will no doubt win against the Raiders" feel as confident as saying "the Ravens will no doubt win against the Raiders". No....because their offense is disgusting. Now am I saying you need a sick offense in order to judge what will be auto wins? No. But it certainly gives one more confidence in saying it. And besides, our offense is less than mediocre, so nobody should even be hinting at the prospect of auto wins.

Defense no longer wins games, the NFL is offensive minded, hence the rules hence all the good offensive teams doing well. Sorry to say it guys but 2000 will never happen again (winning a sb with nothing but defense), not in how football has evolved.[/quote]
defense still wins champinships look at the giants they beat the team that scored the most points all time in a season offense sells tickets thats it

[PuRock]

[quote name='noy' post='76443' date='Oct 15 2008, 12:16 PM']Defense no longer wins games, the NFL is offensive minded, hence the rules hence all the good offensive teams doing well. Sorry to say it guys but 2000 will never happen again (winning a sb with nothing but defense), not in how football has evolved.[/quote]

You make it sound like the year 2000 was a long time ago. Tampa Bay did it on defense in 2003.

[quote name='YABOY' post='76451' date='Oct 15 2008, 12:44 PM']defense still wins champinships look at the giants they beat the team that scored the most points all time in a season offense sells tickets thats it[/quote]

I agree with you. You can have offense up the ying yang and not win the superbowl. A solid defense game in and game out can win you a superbowl anyseason. You do need to put points on the board but you just can't make turnovers on offense.

Defenses will always win championships.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Byrdz' post='76366' date='Oct 14 2008, 10:22 PM']holding the ball for 8 minutes is bad most good offenses score in lesser time than tha so ur not really saying anything u think Peyton take 8 minutes to score every Td no.[/quote]

The whole point of playing offense is to score points AND keep the other teams offense off the field. Holding ball 8 minutes does that. Now they just need to work on scoring more points.

[#1 D]

[quote name='neepo13' post='76470' date='Oct 15 2008, 03:13 PM']The whole point of playing offense is to score points AND keep the other teams offense off the field. Holding ball 8 minutes does that. Now they just need to work on scoring more points.[/quote]
Thats true. Back in 2000 we had that unstoppable running game with Jamal Lewis which basically ate up the clock and put the offense in a position to score. Not to mention Jermaine Lewis and his kick/punt returns.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Byrdz' post='76368' date='Oct 14 2008, 10:25 PM']they won from 13 points the D held them enough for us to win, what is you saying is it me or does any nfl offense should score more than 13 points thats 1 td and two Fgs in a sixty minute game come on just hop off flacco's third leg[/quote]

Thats not the point. If they had given up the 13 points before the end of the game it would be completely different BUT THEY DIDNT.They gave up most of those points on two long drives at the end of the game. Thats what should worry you. This is not about the offenses ineffectiveness, I know the offense hasnt been effective, a blind person could tell you that. This about the defense breaking down when they needed to hold. This team is built around this defense, the gameplan is BUILT AROUND EFFECTIVE DEFENSE. And it should be because more then half of our cap space is dedicated to that side of the ball. We can not afford to have them break down in crucial situations. Open up your eyes. The defense is the backbone of this team and they should be because thats where all our money has gone. And right now our backbone is BREAKING.

[neepo13]

[quote name='PuRock' post='76457' date='Oct 15 2008, 01:28 PM'][b]You make it sound like the year 2000 was a long time ago. Tampa Bay did it on defense in 2003.[/b]


I agree with you. You can have offense up the ying yang and not win the superbowl. A solid defense game in and game out can win you a superbowl anyseason. You do need to put points on the board but you just can't make turnovers on offense.

Defenses will always win championships.[/quote]

You could argue that every Superbowl since ours has been won due to great defense. The Ravens, Bucs, and Giants are the obvious examples. But the Colts had an effective offense for years and it got them nowhere until their defense stepped it up in the playoffs. The Patriots didnt win any of their Superbowls based purely on offense, they were probably the only team that won it based on balance. And the Steelers, lets just say the lowest passer rating EVER in Superbowl history, so how did they win? Defense.

[PuRock]

[quote name='neepo13' post='76475' date='Oct 15 2008, 03:23 PM']You could argue that every Superbowl since ours has been won due to great defense. The Ravens, Bucs, and Giants are the obvious examples. But the Colts had an effective offense for years and it got them nowhere until their defense stepped it up in the playoffs. The Patriots didnt win any of their Superbowls based purely on offense, they were probably the only team that won it based on balance. And the Steelers, lets just say the lowest passer rating EVER in Superbowl history, so how did they win? Defense.[/quote]

I completely agree. I didn't want to throw in the Colts and Patriots into my arguement, because they had the complete packages when they won. Defense and Offense. But yes in essence, you can't win a championship without solid defense, that is proven.