32 replies to this topic

[Sizzlebshu]

There has been a lot of talk here about Michael Oher and his false start penalties. I felt that I needed to address that so unlike those of you complaining I decided to look at Oher's numbers over the past three seasons. Here they are

http://nationalpost....id=9287&team=33

As you can see, this year, Michael Oher has set a career low in false starts with only 4. No offense but for 16 games, having only 4 false starts is pretty good. So anyone using that as an argument for him being traded needs to stop because its not even accurate.

Now just because I know the holding penalties are going to be the next thing you guys go to should you want to continue this, take this into consideration.

His rookie year he had 0 holding penalties. In that year he had a full off season and training camps, had a relatively healthy o line all year round. He also didnt have to deal with switching positions. So the holding penalties are somewhat understandable this year considering grubbs was out half the year, he had just switched back from LT, and had a shortened off season to pick up the nuances of playing on the right and with the o line.

He has also let up fewer sacks this year as well.

Long Story Short: Oher is fine at RT.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 27 January 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Ravens<3]

That has to be false information lol. I feel he had atleast 1 every 2 games last year

[GrimCoconut]

My problem with Oher isn't limited to his penalties. My problem with Oher has to do with how he gets beat and causes sacks. I watched him closely and he didn't play all that bad against NE. He has had success. I just don't understand why we drafted Jah Reid to be RT if Oher is also RT. At this time and from what I've seen of Oher at LT I do not like him as our LT of the future. If Jah Reid was brought here to become our LT then that's OK with me if he stays, but then that makes me question Jah Reid's ability to play LT. Overall, I'm saying I don't know why we drafted Reid if Oher is going to play the right.

[Crabcakes&Football]

GrimCoconut, on 27 January 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

My problem with Oher isn't limited to his penalties. My problem with Oher has to do with how he gets beat and causes sacks. I watched him closely and he didn't play all that bad against NE. He has had success. I just don't understand why we drafted Jah Reid to be RT if Oher is also RT. At this time and from what I've seen of Oher at LT I do not like him as our LT of the future. If Jah Reid was brought here to become our LT then that's OK with me if he stays, but then that makes me question Jah Reid's ability to play LT. Overall, I'm saying I don't know why we drafted Reid if Oher is going to play the right.

We drafted Reid before we got Mckinnie. I think the plan was to keep Oher at LT.

[757RavensFan]

Crabcakes&Football, on 27 January 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

We drafted Reid before we got Mckinnie. I think the plan was to keep Oher at LT.

^^^^What he said.

[flynismo]

Sizzlebshu, on 27 January 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

There has been a lot of talk here about Michael Oher and his false start penalties. I felt that I needed to address that so unlike those of you complaining I decided to look at Oher's numbers over the past three seasons. Here they are

http://nationalpost....id=9287&team=33

As you can see, this year, Michael Oher has set a career low in false starts with only 4. No offense but for 16 games, having only 4 false starts is pretty good. So anyone using that as an argument for him being traded needs to stop because its not even accurate.

Now just because I know the holding penalties are going to be the next thing you guys go to should you want to continue this, take this into consideration.

His rookie year he had 0 holding penalties. In that year he had a full off season and training camps, had a relatively healthy o line all year round. He also didnt have to deal with switching positions. So the holding penalties are somewhat understandable this year considering grubbs was out half the year, he had just switched back from LT, and had a shortened off season to pick up the nuances of playing on the right and with the o line.

He has also let up fewer sacks this year as well.

Long Story Short: Oher is fine at RT.

First, I'm doubtful o the accuracy of that, secondly, I dont care if it were true because when he isn't getting flags, he's giving up pressure far, far more than what is acceptable.

As you already know I made a thread dedicated to Oher, so I'm not going to repeat nearly 10 pages worth of stuff here.
We need to replace him with someone who can handle the job, that's my opinion

Edited by flynismo, 27 January 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[GrimCoconut]

Crabcakes&Football, on 27 January 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

We drafted Reid before we got Mckinnie. I think the plan was to keep Oher at LT.

I know that, but I mean does anyone expect the Ravens to move him back to LT? I really don't see it happening.

[Sizzlebshu]

Ravens<3, on 27 January 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

That has to be false information lol. I feel he had atleast 1 every 2 games last year

Again subjective. But to explain your feeling he did have a total of 10 penalties this year. They just werent false starts like many have complained about. They were more holding based.

GrimCoconut, on 27 January 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

My problem with Oher isn't limited to his penalties. My problem with Oher has to do with how he gets beat and causes sacks. I watched him closely and he didn't play all that bad against NE. He has had success. I just don't understand why we drafted Jah Reid to be RT if Oher is also RT. At this time and from what I've seen of Oher at LT I do not like him as our LT of the future. If Jah Reid was brought here to become our LT then that's OK with me if he stays, but then that makes me question Jah Reid's ability to play LT. Overall, I'm saying I don't know why we drafted Reid if Oher is going to play the right.

Again if you look at the numbers, he is credited with giving up 5.75 sacks this year a career low. Is that completely accurate? Maybe, Maybe not but its a close to an objective look as we are gonna get. I saw it mentioned that we had hopes that Reid would be developed into an LT. I'll post the post I found for that later after I eat. I feel like I read that somewhere.

Crabcakes&Football, on 27 January 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

We drafted Reid before we got Mckinnie. I think the plan was to keep Oher at LT.

idk where but I read that the ravens management had high hopes for Reid becoming a LT. It was somewhere in these forums, when I find it later after I eat, I will post it.

flynismo, on 27 January 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

First, I'm doubtful o the accuracy of that, secondly, I dont care if it were true because when he isn't getting flags, he's giving up pressure far, far more than what is acceptable.

As you already know I made a thread dedicated to Oher, so I'm not going to repeat nearly 10 pages worth of stuff here.
We need to replace him with someone who can handle the job, that's my opinion

Okay Im just gonna put this out there. These are the stats Ive found. I at least looked for numbers to refute or validate the opinions of everyone on Michael Oher. And from what I found the numbers refute what your opinion is. And that is he cant handle the job. If youre saying that he is giving up pressure, maybe so but he's not giving up the sack and as far as I kno what youre saying is subjective rather than objective because to my knowledge there is no stat for pressure given up by an o line men. I mean if you have a number to back it up I welcome you to prove me wrong. Im just sayin from my research the numbers dont support your claims. In fact, they refute them.



And just to everyone fyi, you guys are attacking my numbers saying their wrong but providing no evidence to the contrary to prove they are inaccurate and or wrong. Again I'm posting research I found and the conclusion I drew from it. I would like the same courtesy in return before you attack the numbers or conclusion. At least show me some objective basis for what your saying. Im not saying your wrong, just that the claim lacks evidence.

[The Raven]

Sizzlebshu, on 27 January 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

There has been a lot of talk here about Michael Oher and his false start penalties. I felt that I needed to address that so unlike those of you complaining I decided to look at Oher's numbers over the past three seasons. Here they are

http://nationalpost....id=9287&team=33

As you can see, this year, Michael Oher has set a career low in false starts with only 4. No offense but for 16 games, having only 4 false starts is pretty good. So anyone using that as an argument for him being traded needs to stop because its not even accurate.

Noone used that argument. We think he should be traded because he sucks and is highly inconsistent, but still has trade value

Now just because I know the holding penalties are going to be the next thing you guys go to should you want to continue this, take this into consideration.

His rookie year he had 0 holding penalties. In that year he had a full off season and training camps, had a relatively healthy o line all year round. He also didnt have to deal with switching positions. So the holding penalties are somewhat understandable this year considering grubbs was out half the year, he had just switched back from LT, and had a shortened off season to pick up the nuances of playing on the right and with the o line.

Good try, but in his 3rd season, should he really need a full offseason to do what he's been doing since high school? The scheme didn't change. And guess what else? The defensive ends that destroyed him also didn't have a full offseason, but they stil destroyed him. Your point holds no ground. Oh, and guess what else? Yanda has switched back and forth from RT and RG numerous times, but he's a pro bowler at RG, and made All Pro at RT. Again, no ground. No excuses. Oher is mediocre.

He has also let up fewer sacks this year as well.


Long Story Short: Oher is fine mediocre at RT.

[True]

He's just way too inconsistent imo..

[The Raven]

Oh, I still question those numbers. There is NO WAY that he didn't give up a single sack in all his post season games.

[True]

The Raven, on 27 January 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

Oh, I still question those numbers. There is NO WAY that he didn't give up a single sack in all his post season games.

Quote

Michael Oher (-4.3) who had plenty of issues in pass protection (three sacks and three hurries allowed), while losing his battle with Watt in the run game. He made some decent plays (leaving Watt on the floor with 5:10 to go in Q3) but also got beaten, and badly at times. Take 11:45 in the third for instance, where he’s never able to engage Watt who gets off him easily to make a tackle for a loss. Oher flashes talent but has never lived up to his rookie year, and this performance was a great example of that.

(LINK)

I think the last sentence says it all.

[The Raven]

True, on 27 January 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

(LINK)

I think the last sentence says it all.

Yep, and that actually reminded me that Oher allowed multiple sacks to Reed and Watt in that game. Those numbers in the article have no credibility.

[Sizzlebshu]

True, on 27 January 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

(LINK)

I think the last sentence says it all.

fair enough at least you did it right true and put at least somethin up to show some error the numbers. You are right there, I mean it doesnt disprove the regular season numbers, but at least it gives you enough to call them into question. Not for lack of trying, but I looked hard to find stats for oher and this was the best I could find. Im not tryin to mislead anyone, but since no1 else had any numbers, I thought id at least try to find some.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 27 January 2012 - 06:42 PM.

[Sizzlebshu]

The Raven I really wish you didnt put in the quote so I can quote you better but to your counterpoints

1. I mean you can check the previous thread there have been people saying he gets too many penalties and costs our offense drives by false startin on third and forcing us into a third and long which ultimately ends the drive in a punt.

2. your point about Yanda is completely irrelevant. Oher is not Yanda. Just cause Yanda could do it, doesnt mean Oher can. They are two different people. The fact that Yanda can do it means hes a special player. So nice try there. Im sorry Oher is not Yanda, but Yanda being able to do something has no bearing on what Oher should be able to do/can do. We drafted Oher to play RT not guard, not LT etc... For all we know that may be all he can do.

For a guy like oher who has been shuffled around every season he has been in the nfl, being able to settle in and disciplined at his position for a full off season I think makes a difference in his play. Dont say he has been doing this all the time, because for the last three years he has been shuffled between LT and RT every year. I believe he took LT duties for part of his rookie season, then took over at LT during his sophomore season, and now back to right this season. If you dont think that causes confusion in a player and that their habits can somewhat change in 3 years from doing this, you must be kidding? Having a full off season to get acclimated, fix mistakes, study schemes etc.. makes a difference in easing that transition


Again I'm not sayin anyone's wrong about Oher, but saying that he is bad and giving evidence, not unbacked reasoning, but reasoning back by hard evidence (in this case numbers) would help argument tremendously. Also before you dismiss this as just he's wrong and dont provide evidence for the argument, remember there were a lot of people on this board who doubted Flacco using the same method earlier in the season and wanted him gone despite numbers saying he was better than Matt Ryan and other qbs he was being compared to. We all see how that turned out.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 27 January 2012 - 06:47 PM.

[The Raven]

Sizzlebshu, on 27 January 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

The Raven I really wish you didnt put in the quote so I can quote you better but to your counterpoints

1. I mean you can check the previous thread there have been people saying he gets too many penalties and costs our offense drives by false startin on third and forcing us into a third and long which ultimately ends the drive in a punt.

2. your point about Yanda is completely irrelevant. Oher is not Yanda. Just cause Yanda could do it, doesnt mean Oher can. They are two different people. The fact that Yanda can do it means hes a special player. So nice try there. Im sorry Oher is not Yanda, but Yanda being able to do something has no bearing on what Oher should be able to do/can do. We drafted Oher to play RT not guard, not LT etc... For all we know that may be all he can do.

For a guy like oher who has been shuffled around every season he has been in the nfl, being able to settle in and disciplined at his position for a full off season I think makes a difference in his play.

Again I'm not sayin anyone's wrong about Oher, but saying that he is bad and giving evidence, not unbacked reasoning, but reasoning back by hard evidence (in this case numbers) would help argument tremendously

How is it irrelevant at all? I'm saying that if Yanda can start at RT as a rookie, get moved to RG, tear his ACL and MCL, come back at RG, then RT again (as an All Pro) and then going back to RG as a pro bowler, why cant Oher? Obviously Oher isn't Yanda, but if Yanda can prove it can be done, you can't use it as an excuse for Oher.

[Sizzlebshu]

The Raven, on 27 January 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

How is it irrelevant at all? I'm saying that if Yanda can start at RT as a rookie, get moved to RG, tear his ACL and MCL, come back at RG, then RT again (as an All Pro) and then going back to RG as a pro bowler, why cant Oher? Obviously Oher isn't Yanda, but if Yanda can prove it can be done, you can't use it as an excuse for Oher.

Just because it can be done, doesn't mean Oher can do it. That like saying every rb should be able to catch the ball as well as Rice or McCoy. I mean if they did it why can't every other one do it? Yanda is an exceptional player with versatile talent to be able to do that. Oher may not have that talent. He may only have the talent to play RT and thats all.

[GrimCoconut]

I'm sorry that I don't have the facts in front of me right now, so forgive my ignorance here. What about October 25th, 2011? Baltimore @ Jacksonville? I seem to remember 4-43. I remember Oher had something to do with that, but I can't get my resources since I am on my mobile browser. Anyone remember that?

[The Raven]

GrimCoconut, on 27 January 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'm sorry that I don't have the facts in front of me right now, so forgive my ignorance here. What about October 25th, 2011? Baltimore @ Jacksonville? I seem to remember 4-43. I remember Oher had something to do with that, but I can't get my resources since I am on my mobile browser. Anyone remember that?

Well, considering stats are not officially recorded by the NFL, its rather hard to find. I wish they did record OL stats like sacks allowed, pancakes, and "block wins".

[Sizzlebshu]

GrimCoconut, on 27 January 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'm sorry that I don't have the facts in front of me right now, so forgive my ignorance here. What about October 25th, 2011? Baltimore @ Jacksonville? I seem to remember 4-43. I remember Oher had something to do with that, but I can't get my resources since I am on my mobile browser. Anyone remember that?

If I went through this right and granted I'm tired, but I saw 2 for 20 for oher

But its 10 for 85 for the team

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 27 January 2012 - 08:21 PM.