Flacco Overthrow/Underthrow

[JohnJohnson]

Several times, I've seen it mentioned that Flacco "missed" two touchdowns to Torrey Smith, one where he supposedly underthrew it for a 42 yard gain early in the game, and a bomb at the end of the half that supposedly was overthrown.

There's something you need to understand; Flacco is not a cyborg. When he's rolling to his right, and doesn't have the chance to set his feet, it might be a little hard for him to bomb the ball 60 yards. So I don't know if that's just an overestimation of his arm strength, but it's a little ridiculous for some to think that he should have been able to hit Torrey in stride 60 yards downfield without stopping to set his feet (which he had no time for).

At the end of the first half, Flacco unleashed a bomb which must have been awesome to see live. He got hit on the play and was unable to finish his throwing motion, but he still must have thrown the ball 60-70 yards in the air. It was so high that the camera man followed the ball and lost sight of the field, so we couldn't see what happened in real time. But on the replay, you could clearly see that once again, Torrey had slowed down in the middle of his route (just like when he dropped the TD pass in Pittsburgh). Flacco put it just where he needed to put it, and gave Torrey a chance to run under it. If he doesn't slow down, the ball is right on his hands and he has a chance to catch it (which is far from guaranteed).

Flacco made a few mistakes in that game, but these two throws were not mistakes. In fact, they were well thrown balls.

[usmccharles]

i was actually very impressed when he connected with torry when he was rolling to his right and threw it on the run, thats a very tough throw.

I think some of the problems weve seen with joe and torry is that torrys speed is so decieving, it doesnt seem like hes fast off the line but his top speed seems insane, but maybe thats just me, im sure he still ran a 4.4 in the 40. Its just crazy to see him blow by CBs all day. One thing i dont get is why we didnt see torry used for slants much, all you need is one good block and hed be gone.

[H8R]

the seem pass wasnt an overthrow at all. Torrey stopped on the route to locate the ball, had he kept running it would have been a TD. Not to mention, he was on the wrong side of the numbers. A poor route and poor tracking of the ball.

[callahan09]

I fully agree about the so-called "overthrow." That ball was perfect. As you watch the replays, you see Torrey look up to try to locate the ball and he just looks lost, he can't find the ball in the air and as a result, he slows down and hesitates and he even attempts to cut right when the ball is coming in on his left. Torrey basically completely botched the process of finding and running to the football. That's not something you can ever want the quarterback to attempt to adjust for; it's the receivers job to find the ball and get to it, and Torrey had the separation, the speed, and the time to do just that, and failed.

[JohnJohnson]

Torrey made up for it with his TD, but I just hate the negative slants on Flacco. No one appreciates what he's capable of. When the game is on the line, defenses should think twice about punting to Flacco. If you leave him one minute, there's a solid chance he'll throw a beautiful projectile TD pass in the closing seconds. It tears me up inside to think about the Lee Evans drop, but there are more of those to come.

[reediddy]

One the first throw, to even fling the ball while rolling out to the right with pressure in your face is impressive. Torrey let up on the second deep try and had me laughing with his running style

[Ravenslifer]

It's all about Torrey and Joe having an entire offseason together to work on it. Once they get in synch the results will be great.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1327689805' post='976252']It's all about Torrey and Joe having an entire offseason together to work on it. Once they get in synch the results will be great.[/quote]

I agree. They'll be something else. Brady to Moss 2.0?

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1327690380' post='976285']
I agree. They'll be something else. Brady to Moss 2.0?
[/quote]

Well I wouldn't go [i]that[/i] far. But that's because I think Moss, physically, is the greatest wide receiver ever to play the game of football. Hard shoes for Torrey to fill. I'm thinking more like Warner to Holt (one Torrey like another Tory, maybe?), or Manning to Harrison. Just two guys that will put up great numbers together on the same team for the next decade.

[flynismo]

What irked me for some reason is that Michael Irvin said that Flacco needed to put more air under the ball to give Torrey more time to adjust.

When you look at the replay, you can see the angle of descent -- the ball looked like it was punted to Smith.

If Torrey doesn't stray to the right while the pass is in the air, he would have had a chance. But to be fair, that fraction of a second he lost when he strayed also means that he would have gained more ground and would have slowed up a hair anyway. The pass would have been slightly underthrown but very catchable

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1327690380' post='976285']
I agree. They'll be something else. Brady to Moss 2.0?
[/quote]

They won't even get to 1% of that with Cam at the helm of the offense. That was the greatest QB to WR combination of all time.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1327691119' post='976324']
What irked me for some reason is that Michael Irvin said that Flacco needed to put more air under the ball to give Torrey more time to adjust.

When you look at the replay, you can see the angle of descent -- the ball looked like it was punted to Smith.

If Torrey doesn't stray to the right while the pass is in the air, he would have had a chance. But to be fair, that fraction of a second he lost when he strayed also means that he would have gained more ground and would have slowed up a hair anyway. The pass would have been slightly underthrown but very catchable
[/quote]

Michael Irvin and Deion Sanders have it out for Flacco. They just like to criticize the guy. Besides, Michael is a receiver, he never likes to blame other receivers.

[True]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1327691556' post='976339']

Michael Irvin and Deion Sanders have it out for Flacco. They just like to criticize the guy. Besides, Michael is a receiver, he never likes to blame other receivers.
[/quote]
Lol he ripped Lee Evans pretty bad for his drop (heard him on the Dan Patrick show yesterday).

The deep ball is a hard pass, you expect over/under throws especially with a rookie WR.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1327691649' post='976347']
The deep ball is a hard pass, you expect over/under throws especially with a rookie WR.
[/quote]

When you don't use modern route concepts, like rub routes, the bunch formation, etc, every pass is a hard pass. It's a wonder Flacco doesn't get every pass picked off with how he's forced to throw into blanket coverage on every play because of the moron. Our offense is built on low percentage passing plays. What a logical system.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1327691649' post='976347']
Lol he ripped Lee Evans pretty bad for his drop (heard him on the Dan Patrick show yesterday).

The deep ball is a hard pass, you expect over/under throws especially with a rookie WR.
[/quote]

They still rip Flacco every single time the Ravens are discussed, like clockwork. I'm trying to figure it out - there are some guys like Skip Bayless who just do it because he likes being contrarian - I honestly don't think he cares one way or the other about Flacco, but he likes to stir the pot by creating imaginary rifts between Flacco and guys like Ray and Sizzle. But Irvin and especially "Prime Time", all I ever here them say is Flacco needs to play better. After the Texans game, Prime was like "How can the Ravens ever expect to win anything with a quarterback like Flacco under center?"

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1327691791' post='976355']

When you don't use modern route concepts, like rub routes, the bunch formation, etc, every pass is a hard pass. It's a wonder Flacco doesn't get every pass picked off with how he's forced to throw into blanket coverage on every play because of the moron. Our offense is built on low percentage passing plays. What a logical system.
[/quote]

Yep, Q is dangerous in the slot, but we hardly ever see him there. Torrey was a master at comebacks at Maryland (although he was really only ever asked to run go routes, corners, comebacks and screens). But a lot of people said what he was the best at doing was gaining YAC because he had a real fluid break and he could make people miss close to the LOS, but that he had trouble making open field defenders miss. Which to me adds up to more shorter routes for Torrey would make him more successful, but Cam likes dialing up deep routes. Maybe that changes next year, because I think Torrey has a chance to be at worst a solid number 2 receiver in the NFL for a long time if he can learn to use all areas of the field better, and if he can get on the same page with Joe and eliminate those drops.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1327692825' post='976405']
[b]Maybe that changes next year[/b], because I think Torrey has a chance to be at worst a solid number 2 receiver in the NFL for a long time if he can learn to use all areas of the field better, and if he can get on the same page with Joe and eliminate those drops.
[/quote]

This kind of attitude needs to be nipped in the bud. Seriously people, stop it. Don't even say it. Four years and we've seen no change on the offensive front. It's the same crap that Cam ran in San Diego and Miami, it's the same crap that he ran as a college coach, and it's the same crap he's ran here. The fact is what Cam does doesn't work. He's so bad at his job even Congress would kick him out. Coaches don't change, they make their system and stick by it no matter how flawed it may be.

Don't act like Cam is going to grow a brain over the off-season. You can't fix stupid.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1327693109' post='976417']

This kind of attitude needs to be nipped in the bud. Seriously people, stop it. Don't even say it. Four years and we've seen no change on the offensive front. It's the same crap that Cam ran in San Diego and Miami, it's the same crap that he ran as a college coach, and it's the same crap he's ran here. The fact is what Cam does doesn't work. He's so bad at his job even Congress would kick him out. Coaches don't change, they make their system and stick by it no matter how flawed it may be.

Don't act like Cam is going to grow a brain over the off-season. You can't fix stupid.
[/quote]

I mean...we did sweep the Steelers and pretty much win the game in New England. Cam is not totally incompetent. He just gets into predictable modes sometimes, and it definitely reduces our effectiveness. It's not about committing to the run or passing a certain percentage of the time, it's about being unpredictable and playing off of what you've done in the game.

[Gordo52]

Joe played elite last game.
But it was vs the Pats D...
So maybe he just played great lol

[Ed_Reed20]

Irvin actually did acknowledge Torrey slowed on his route. But why he mentioned Joe needing to put more air on the ball in the first place if he knew what Smith did makes no sense.

[Moderator 3]

Irvin just wanted to take a shot at Flacco...it's the national passtime.

[Crabcakes&Football]

SMH at the overthrow part. There are very few QBs who are even capable of overthrowing that ball. And the accuracy on a ball that long was incredible.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1327685057' post='975984']
Several times, I've seen it mentioned that Flacco "missed" two touchdowns to Torrey Smith, one where he supposedly[b] underthrew it for a 42 yard gain early in the game, and a bomb at the end of the half that supposedly was overthrown.[/b]


[/quote]


You do know that Flacco threw that bomb on the Run and a little bit acrossed his body, so to me that was a great throw.

[ghost1986]

Yeah Joe took a shot when he supposedly overthrew Torrey, but Torrey did slow up. Oh well. They'll get on the same page with a full off-season.

[jagans]

Considering the incredible lack of protection that Joe has been given he has generally played extremely well. Also, compared to many of the other NFL teams the ravens receivers miss a lot of very well thrown balls. Watch Cruz of the NY Giants. The guy is a Vacuum Cleaner.
As far as the Playoffs go, Evans should have clamped down on that ball and went into a fetal position untill they came and carried him off the field, clutching the ball for dear life. I completely agree with Shannon Sharp. He relaxed. I cant help thinking that he was deciding which post TD routine he would go into, and lost concentration for a milisecond. Thats the difference between the great ones and the goats. The great ones make the play, and wait for the applause, the Goats applaud themselves.

[raybaby]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1327685057' post='975984']
Several times, I've seen it mentioned that Flacco "missed" two touchdowns to Torrey Smith, one where he supposedly underthrew it for a 42 yard gain early in the game, and a bomb at the end of the half that supposedly was overthrown.

There's something you need to understand; Flacco is not a cyborg. When he's rolling to his right, and doesn't have the chance to set his feet, it might be a little hard for him to bomb the ball 60 yards. So I don't know if that's just an overestimation of his arm strength, but it's a little ridiculous for some to think that he should have been able to hit Torrey in stride 60 yards downfield without stopping to set his feet (which he had no time for).

At the end of the first half, Flacco unleashed a bomb which must have been awesome to see live. He got hit on the play and was unable to finish his throwing motion, but he still must have thrown the ball 60-70 yards in the air. It was so high that the camera man followed the ball and lost sight of the field, so we couldn't see what happened in real time. But on the replay, you could clearly see that once again, Torrey had slowed down in the middle of his route (just like when he dropped the TD pass in Pittsburgh). Flacco put it just where he needed to put it, and gave Torrey a chance to run under it. If he doesn't slow down, the ball is right on his hands and he has a chance to catch it (which is far from guaranteed).

Flacco made a few mistakes in that game, but these two throws were not mistakes. In fact, they were well thrown balls.
[/quote]

Agreed..... love how experts are using those throws as to why Joe missed opportunities. Those weren't his missed opportunities at all.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1327699716' post='976723']


You do know that Flacco threw that bomb on the Run and a little bit acrossed his body, so to me that was a great throw.
[/quote]

That was the point of my entire post...did you read it?

[PeRK82]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1327709062' post='976990']

That was the point of my entire post...did you read it?
[/quote]


No ill be honest with you, only read the first paragraph, kinda in a rush and just induced with RAGE knowing what i get to look forward to for the Offense next season.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1327696262' post='976625']Irvin actually did acknowledge Torrey slowed on his route. But why he mentioned Joe needing to put more air on the ball in the first place if he knew what Smith did makes no sense.[/quote]

he did acknowledge that? I didnt hear that part...
I guess his reasoning is that Flacco should have lofted it more was just in case Torrey had trouble tracking the ball.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1327687048' post='976097']
the seem pass wasnt an overthrow at all. Torrey stopped on the route to locate the ball, had he kept running it would have been a TD. Not to mention, he was on the wrong side of the numbers. A poor route and poor tracking of the ball.
[/quote]

i agree H8R.

~Mili