Ravens 2012 Roster Outlook And Salary Cap Status

[CapoRocky]

I kind of like the idea of starting over with a new OC. Evans may be back and prove us wrong next year. I doubt that they will let Rice or Grubbs walk. The free agency period hasn't begun yet. It's like the draft. We can speculate all day and night about what may happen, but we really won't know for sure until training camp begins.

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1327419619' post='971056']

On one hand, you could say that Ed had a statistically down season. On the other hand, if it wasn't for his picks then we would not have beaten the Texans. Does anyone think that he will be this offseason's sacrifice (i.e. Heap and Mason)? I know that this is a touchy topic, but now we've seen it happen it is not so unbelievable.
[/quote]

Even the suggestion of this unholy thought is tantamount to blasphemy!!! lol

[CapoRocky]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1327520834' post='972909']

Even the suggestion of this unholy thought is tantamount to blasphemy!!! lol
[/quote]

Just don't tell St. Tebow.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1327497366' post='972335']
Awh I missed understood your table I didn't realise your saving was net off the swap cap amount.

You say that we can carry over our cap we haven't used this year. Does that mean a team like the bucs can carry over the 20 odd mil they have spare or is it capped to a certain amount
[/quote]

Yes, they could, but they don't have to.

But, in most cases like that, I would doubt they do. They already have that much cap space for a reason - they're cheap. To carry it over would just create that much more cap space that they won't use, but it will make them look even that much cheaper.

There may be a little press about them not carrying it over, but that will likely go largely unnoticed. OTOH, next year, when they would be $40-50M - under because of the carryover - and they aren't spending it, that will likely be more noticeable.

In 2013, they're going to have to spend to the Cap (or close enough), so they aren't likely to carry it over this year or next.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='B-more Ravor' timestamp='1327523449' post='972968']


Yes, they could, but they don't have to.

But, in most cases like that, I would doubt they do. They already have that much cap space for a reason - they're cheap. To carry it over would Y create that much more cap space that they won't use, but it will make them look even that much cheaper.

There may be a little press about them not carrying it over, but that will likely go largely unnoticed. OTOH, next year, when they would be $40-50M - under because of the carryover - and they aren't spending it, that will likely be more noticeable.

In 2013, they're going to have to spend to the Cap (or close enough), so they aren't likely to carry it over this year or next.
[/quote]so the owners of these teams have their wallets as the paramount objective rather than winning. They could go sign manning, Mario Williams. V jax abs Carl nicks all in free agency and still have spare cap. I would hate to be a fan of a team like that

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1327528197' post='973187']
so the owners of these teams have their wallets as the paramount objective rather than winning. They could go sign manning, Mario Williams. V jax abs Carl nicks all in free agency and still have spare cap. I would hate to be a fan of a team like that
[/quote]

Agreed. Several teams took full advantage of 2010 as the uncapped year with no salary floor, essentially did the same this year and will do so one more time next year before the are forced to basically spend to the Cap with the salary floor that goes into effect in 2013.

[arnie_uk]

Do you think theres any free agents the ravens could make a splash on and still sign grubbs and rice. Giving joe an extension will create more room, i think fox is guareenteed to be gone. Redding or JJ will be signed i think, then with our RFA, Exclusive Rights, and new rookies, would there be room to make a big signing like a Bowe, or mario williams, or would it just be good vet signings like lee evans and Mckinnie?

Im talking from a financial point of view here

[gabefergy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1327613854' post='974978']
Do you think theres any free agents the ravens could make a splash on and still sign grubbs and rice. Giving joe an extension will create more room, i think fox is guareenteed to be gone. Redding or JJ will be signed i think, then with our RFA, Exclusive Rights, and new rookies, would there be room to make a big signing like a Bowe, or mario williams, or would it just be good vet signings like lee evans and Mckinnie?

Im talking from a financial point of view here
[/quote]
An interesting guy would be Chris Myers, C for Houston Texans. I am pretty sure he is an UFA and he might be just what we need to help our Oline. Not sure how expensive he would be, but worth taking a look IMO.

[admartian]

I don't care if we keep Lee or not. But it all comes down to Cam.

If he stays, I think it's all moot in the end. There isn't a receiver on that FA (not VJax or Colston - at least not in Cam's system) list that can break games like an Andre Johnson, or a Megatron can.

The only way we get a playmaker like that is the draft; and I think Blackmon or Jeffrey or that kid from Baylor are unreachable. And I doubt we use a 1st or 2nd round pick on a WR anyway.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1327618352' post='975063']
I don't care if we keep Lee or not. But it all comes down to Cam.

If he stays, I think it's all moot in the end. There isn't a receiver on that FA ([b]not VJax or Colston - at least not in Cam's system[/b]) list that can break games like an Andre Johnson, or a Megatron can.

The only way we get a playmaker like that is the draft; and I think Blackmon or Jeffrey or that kid from Baylor are unreachable. And I doubt we use a 1st or 2nd round pick on a WR anyway.
[/quote]

Not that I see either coming here, but having big WRs like V-Jax and Colston that Joe could lob the ball up to would be pretty good, especially considering the obscene amount of go routes in Cam's play-book.

[latenighthero]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1327618114' post='975058']
An interesting guy would be Chris Myers, C for Houston Texans. I am pretty sure he is an UFA and he might be just what we need to help our Oline. Not sure how expensive he would be, but worth taking a look IMO.
[/quote]
Yes although I believe he is in Hawaii right now at the probowl so there will likely be a list of teams waiting in line for him. Although I'm not sure what other teams would be looking for a Centre.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1327613854' post='974978']
Do you think theres any free agents the ravens could make a splash on and still sign grubbs and rice. Giving joe an extension will create more room, i think fox is guareenteed to be gone. Redding or JJ will be signed i think, then with our RFA, Exclusive Rights, and new rookies, would there be room to make a big signing like a Bowe, or mario williams, or would it just be good vet signings like lee evans and Mckinnie?

Im talking from a financial point of view here
[/quote]

Can they? Sure, they could release enough players and/or restructure deals to do so.

For instance, if they were to clear Foxworth, Carr and Evans off the books, they'd be pretty flush in Cap space and, even with re-signing Rice and Grubbs, they'd still have a decent amount of Cap space.

The question is will they make a big splash or will they go for the "building block" approach last year where they re-signed their own and then supplemented with Leach, Ricky, Pollard, McKinnie and Evans.

With Ozzie, you just never know.

[Mr. GM]

There is no way R. Rice is franchised or offered a top 5 contract! That would have a snow ball effect in resigning Webb, C. Williams, Grubbs. Not to mention signing Flacco to a new contract(going into his last year of his contract in the 2012 season). We all already know Foxworth/Carr/J.Johnson wont be back, so lets move on to other salary issues. Here is the simple math(dont over think this people): On one hand you resign Rice, on the other hand you resign Grubbs/Webb/C. Williams, What hand would you choose(again dont over think this people) All the while leaving enough salary cap to resign Flacco.

Yes I know Flacco and Rice are in the top echolon for their position BUT you can not pay them both(salary cap wont allow it). Flacco is more valuable to the franchise than Rice. Let Rice walk. Damien Berry same college talent as Rice /Anthony Allen same talent as Ricky Williams.

Teams running styles change, that is football. We went from Jamal Lewis to Ray Rice, two different style backs(the Steelers went from J. Bettis to Parker to Mendenhall). It happens people! Thanks for your years here Ray Rice enjoy your next team.

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='Mr. GM' timestamp='1328024868' post='980566']
There is no way R. Rice is franchised or offered a top 5 contract! That would have a snow ball effect in resigning Webb, C. Williams, Grubbs. Not to mention signing Flacco to a new contract(going into his last year of his contract in the 2012 season). We all already know Foxworth/Carr/J.Johnson wont be back, so lets move on to other salary issues. Here is the simple math(dont over think this people): On one hand you resign Rice, on the other hand you resign Grubbs/Webb/C. Williams, What hand would you choose(again dont over think this people) All the while leaving enough salary cap to resign Flacco.

Yes I know Flacco and Rice are in the top echolon for their position BUT you can not pay them both(salary cap wont allow it). Flacco is more valuable to the franchise than Rice. Let Rice walk. Damien Berry same college talent as Rice /Anthony Allen same talent as Ricky Williams.

Teams running styles change, that is football. We went from Jamal Lewis to Ray Rice, two different style backs(the Steelers went from J. Bettis to Parker to Mendenhall). It happens people! Thanks for your years here Ray Rice enjoy your next team.
[/quote]

This is why I don't blame DB players for being selfish or greedy. Don't pay him what is market value is just (can't say the word) and be done with it. Man I read posts like this all the time. It always makes me laugh when fans cry about a Guy walking or not.being loyal. So many posts about ed taking plays off with a bad neck. You honestly don't think is contract had anything to do with that. Not just you man but posts are funny

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Mr. GM' timestamp='1328024868' post='980566']
There is no way R. Rice is franchised or offered a top 5 contract! That would have a snow ball effect in resigning Webb, C. Williams, Grubbs. Not to mention signing Flacco to a new contract(going into his last year of his contract in the 2012 season). We all already know Foxworth/Carr/J.Johnson wont be back, so lets move on to other salary issues. Here is the simple math(dont over think this people): On one hand you resign Rice, on the other hand you resign Grubbs/Webb/C. Williams, What hand would you choose(again dont over think this people) All the while leaving enough salary cap to resign Flacco.

Yes I know Flacco and Rice are in the top echolon for their position BUT you can not pay them both(salary cap wont allow it). Flacco is more valuable to the franchise than Rice. Let Rice walk. Damien Berry same college talent as Rice /Anthony Allen same talent as Ricky Williams.

Teams running styles change, that is football. We went from Jamal Lewis to Ray Rice, two different style backs(the Steelers went from J. Bettis to Parker to Mendenhall). It happens people! Thanks for your years here Ray Rice enjoy your next team.
[/quote]
Lol. So you want Ray Rice to walk because we can't afford him, Flacco, Grubbs, Webb & Williams? Flacco will probably get a 13mil/yr deal. Grubbs will probably get a 5-6mil/yr deal if we are going to keep him. Webb will get about 5-6mil/yr deal to keep him. Carey will probably get a 3-4mil/yr deal to keep him based upon this year's performance. That's a total of 27-29mil/yr for those players. If you add Ray Rice for about 6-7, then we're looking at 33-36mil/yr. If we cut Evans (5mil), Foxworth (5mil), Carr (4mil) and let Johnson (3mil), McKinnie (4mil), Redding (2mil). Lewis (5.4mil) & Reed (7.2mil) may retire soon, but at the very least are at the end of their contracts. If they retire then that's money saved. This is the last year of Reed's contract as well. So if Lewis & Reed retire after this year and with all the proposed contracts added, these are our numbers:
2012: (signing Rice, Flacco, Webb, Williams & Grubbs) costs 33-36mil/yr.
2013: (difference after losing Lewis, Reed, Johnson, Redding, Evans, Foxworth, Carr) equals to be 35.6mil. Even if we re-sign Reed for a couple more years, that will only cost us about what 8-9mil at the most for him? The salary cap is supposed to go up from what I remember hearing, too.

Overall, I think this issue is overblown. It's possible we won't have some of our favorite players back, yeah. Some times you have to break some eggs. I don't think we let these players walk, though.

[GrimCoconut]

Rotoworld is reporting that Zbikowski is likely to walk, Kindle will be on the bubble in training camp, and JJ has a good chance to return.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Mr. GM' timestamp='1328024868' post='980566']
There is no way R. Rice is franchised or offered a top 5 contract! That would have a snow ball effect in resigning Webb, C. Williams, Grubbs. Not to mention signing Flacco to a new contract(going into his last year of his contract in the 2012 season). We all already know Foxworth/Carr/J.Johnson wont be back, so lets move on to other salary issues. Here is the simple math(dont over think this people): On one hand you resign Rice, on the other hand you resign Grubbs/Webb/C. Williams, What hand would you choose(again dont over think this people) All the while leaving enough salary cap to resign Flacco.

Yes I know Flacco and Rice are in the top echolon for their position BUT you can not pay them both(salary cap wont allow it). Flacco is more valuable to the franchise than Rice. Let Rice walk. Damien Berry same college talent as Rice /Anthony Allen same talent as Ricky Williams.

Teams running styles change, that is football. We went from Jamal Lewis to Ray Rice, two different style backs(the Steelers went from J. Bettis to Parker to Mendenhall). It happens people! Thanks for your years here Ray Rice enjoy your next team.
[/quote]did you even read the story? We have more than enough cap room to sign everyone and still have a bit of room left.

You just think you know it all. Well you don't. Simple as that.

[GermanRavensFan]

Wow.. Foxworth 5.6 Mil, getting more money than Ray,Suggs and Ngata.

Does anyone see Kindle get cut?

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='GermanRavensFan' timestamp='1328105564' post='981515']
Wow.. Foxworth 5.6 Mil, getting more money than Ray,Suggs and Ngata.

Does anyone see Kindle get cut?
[/quote]
It all depends on this offseason. I think if he shows no improvement then there's a possibility. It would be a real shame, not just because we lost out on a 2nd round pick but because of what kind of career he had in front of him.

[Alexir]

6 year, 70 mil offer should be given to Flacco. Think thats what he is worth, just don't know how much guaranteed money we wanna be on the hook for.

[cobrajet]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1327430032' post='971389']
I can't see Grubbs wanting more. He's played at a level similar to Yanda the last couple of years. Plus we payed Yanda in the top 5 for OGs because of his versatility to play RT in a pinch combined with Yanda's durability. Grubbs is dreaming if he thinks he deserves to be paid more than Yanda based on ability.

Some Oline hungry team could pony up more money wise for Grubbs, but in my opinion would be over paying. Grubbs does everything well, but nothing elite in my opinion.
[/quote]
I 100% agree that, "Grubbs does everything well, but nothing elite," but trust me, Grubbs thinks he is worth more. Go back to the article on him and read his comments. The guy wants to be paid and does not care which team he has to play for to get his payday. I think some team is going to step up and over pay him, but I don't think we should match an offer that just hurts our team. He is a good player but interior lineman can be replaced. The difference is last year, Yanda wanted to get a deal done that allowed him remain here as a Raven. Just look at Yanda's comments last year vs. Grubbs comments this year and it will be more clear.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1328028782' post='980608']
Rotoworld is reporting that Zbikowski is likely to walk, Kindle will be on the bubble in training camp, and JJ has a good chance to return.
[/quote]
Really? I dont even understand bringing JJ back. I love him as much as the next guy for what he does at OLB but damn we can't keep putting up an OLB that generates zero pressure on any snap. I mean we don't even bother blitzing him anymore because it's pointless.

Kindle must be really messed up if he's on the bubble in training camp. Harbaugh will probably keep another no talent special teams plug so his 30th ranked coverage unit can continue to suck.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1328109567' post='981544']
Really? I dont even understand bringing JJ back. I love him as much as the next guy for what he does at OLB but damn we can't keep putting up an OLB that generates zero pressure on any snap. I mean we don't even bother blitzing him anymore because it's pointless.
[/quote]
I think it depends on what happens. I have a feeling the Ravens let him test the waters and see what we can pick up in the draft and if there are no viable options we re-sign him. Then again, I could see them re-sign him now and keep him for another year or two. If the Ravens re-sign Redding or Johnson it will be to a short contract. I don't see the contracts being any longer than two years.

When you were as close to the Super Bowl as we were, you don't change too many things.

[Mr. GM]

arnie_uk, signing

Webb, C. Williams, Grubbs(to long term deals) > Rice (to a top 5 contract)

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Mr. GM' timestamp='1328113771' post='981635']
arnie_uk, signing

Webb, C. Williams, Grubbs(to long term deals) > Rice (to a top 5 contract)
[/quote]
i didnt say that rice is more important, in my eyes grubbs is are key free agent. What im saying is we have enough room to resign them all, if we get flacco to a long term deal which will reduce his cap no and cut fox. We have room too sign all.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1328120800' post='981770']
i didnt say that rice is more important, in my eyes grubbs is are key free agent. What im saying is we have enough room to resign them all, if we get flacco to a long term deal which will reduce his cap no and cut fox. We have room too sign all.
[/quote]

For this year, yes, but the question with Grubbs isn't really about this year, it's about whether they want to play sizeable deals to both of their Guards, when McKinnie will be a UFA after this year and Oher after the next. At that point, they may be needing to commit more money to the OT spots and those are generally more expensive.

It's a matter of balancing the Cap based on positions (G, OT, C) and units (OL, DL, LB, etc). My guess is that they aren't going to be willing to offer Grubbs want someone else is.