Ravens 2012 Roster Outlook And Salary Cap Status

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1327429919' post='971385']
We should keep Lee. We have nobody else on the roster besides Torrey that can burn people deep, and he finally looks healthy. If it was up to me, the WR depth would look like this:

Anquan
Torrey
Lee
LaQuan
Doss

I think drafting a KR should be a top priority as well.
[/quote]

He can shop around. If he wants to prove himself, come back. If he wants to be Dominque Crapworth #2 (injury prone, craptastic skills, highly paid), then he can be shown the door.

[bauer77]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1327428385' post='971337']
If grubbs gets the same deal Yanda did we should be fine.
[/quote]


I think Grubbs may wait to see what Carl Nicks (Saints) gets and then demand around that same amount.

[codizzle]

We don't need a KR.. I have full faith that David Rees will bounce back..
It would be nice to find a young BA/Prescott though

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='bauer77' timestamp='1327430910' post='971422']


I think Grubbs may wait to see what Carl Nicks (Saints) gets and then demand around that same amount.
[/quote]

I don't think a responsible market would be that high. He's not Carl Nicks, I don't think he even graded out to be our best lineman.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Fricknmaniac' timestamp='1327420180' post='971080']

You figure Foxworth is going to be cut, which saves $5.6m. Lee Evans might get cut too, just because he's making so much as a #3 WR, which would save $4.375m.

[/quote]
thats wrong, you take a cap hit for cuttin them, thats the dead money figure, of $3m and $1.3 for fox and evans respectively. that is netted off against the savings, to give you a net saving or 2.6 and 3 million.

[CalvinSmoke]

Why do we want to cute Lee Evans whose worth less than 5 mil, but then chase a receiver (which is taking a chance) and pay him almost double? Keeping Lee is a no brainer to me. Lets see what Ozzie thinks lol

[TheRavenouseD2008]

why do they have foxy on there I thought he stated because of his knee he would be retiring at the end of the season that means he is a no cap hit

[bauer77]

[quote name='TheRavenouseD2008' timestamp='1327432206' post='971466']
why do they have foxy on there I thought he stated because of his knee he would be retiring at the end of the season that means he is a no cap hit
[/quote]


Huh? Never heard anywhere that Foxy was retiring.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1327424322' post='971196']
Again if you go through this [url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/44915-rofls-2012-mock-offseason/"]http://boards.baltim...mock-offseason/[/url] at the end of the calculations we have 12 million free after not resigning grubbs and all the cuts and tenders. Should we resign grubbs though we'd still be left with about 6 or 7 million in cap space. This also doesnt factor in any cap space gained by cutting Lee Evans. So unless Im interpeting this wrong, we could make serious push for mario williams since the Texans are flirting with the salary cap need to resign foster among others and already have a potent pass rush without him.

We can make a push for Vjax since the chargers cant tag him and may not match what we offer. Altho I prefer the williams deal.

Now should williams or vjax want to stay with their team and take a hit to do it, thats a whole other story, but im just sayin we have the ability to try for it.
[/quote]
[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1327423792' post='971179']
To the guy that wrote that article....how is Lewis not worth 4 mil next season when you take into account guys like Lee Evans and Foxworth would make more than Lewis, and Lewis is still a top 5 MLB.
[/quote]
B more ravor, the one that posted this link, is the one that wrote it, he is Brian McFarland, he know the cap situation better than anyone. And Sizzle, if you open the link on the thread you posted, its the same link Ravor just posted here in this thread.

I posted this thread yesterday to give some of yous an idea on the cap, i didnt know he was a member of this site

[arnie_uk]

and to bltravens, he is worth $5mil a year, (his salary) he is questioning is he worth the $7mil cap hit wich is the important one for signing people

[keebl3rs]

You guys are crazy in thinking there's even a chance of us getting Vincent Jackson.

Dream on dreamers, dream on!

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='keebl3rs' timestamp='1327434090' post='971517']
You guys are crazy in thinking there's even a chance of us getting Vincent Jackson.

Dream on dreamers, dream on!
[/quote]

Oh my gosh, that would be the albert haynesworth of a contract. DO. NOT. WANT.

[jus'_crAzy]

No more FA WRs please. We've already allocated over $10mil to the WR position for 2012, if I'm reading that right. Besides, I don't think I can take a 3rd crucial drop to end us in the playoffs (sorry Lee... and Housh... I guess).

Pay Flacco.
Tag Rice.
Re-sign JJ, Redding, Grubbs, and Gurode.
Tender Webb, Cary, and McClain. 1, 2, 1st right.
Cut Fox and Lee (sorry again).

The re-signing phase will be the trickiest. How do you value older (but still very capable) players' contracts? Incentive-based mid to low level deals?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1327419619' post='971056']

On one hand, you could say that Ed had a statistically down season. On the other hand, if it wasn't for his picks then we would not have beaten the Texans. Does anyone think that he will be this offseason's sacrifice (i.e. Heap and Mason)? I know that this is a touchy topic, but now we've seen it happen it is not so unbelievable.
[/quote]

Cut Ed Reed????

I don't ever see that happening There are other places to cut. Ed Jones? Chris Carr? Foxworth? I'm not sure even BA is safe.

[jj2020]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1327428740' post='971346']
Haha true that.. Actually gets me excited for the offseason

How many threads we gonna see of people telling us how we are gonna get Mario Colston vjax bowe Desean etc

Cant wait *bart voice*
[/quote]
oh oh lets get Bart Scott back!!!! ahahahaha

[jj2020]

Honestly If Ravens somehow keep as much of what we have add some good draft FS,MLB, OL and BIG WRorTE oh and A NEW KICKER!! we will be good.

[jj2020]

[quote name='jus'_crAzy' timestamp='1327440082' post='971661']
No more FA WRs please. We've already allocated over $10mil to the WR position for 2012, if I'm reading that right. Besides, I don't think I can take a 3rd crucial drop to end us in the playoffs (sorry Lee... and Housh... I guess).

Pay Flacco.
Tag Rice.
Re-sign JJ, Redding, Grubbs, and Gurode.
Tender Webb, Cary, and McClain. 1, 2, 1st right.
Cut Fox and Lee (sorry again).

The re-signing phase will be the trickiest. How do you value older (but still very capable) players' contracts? Incentive-based mid to low level deals?
[/quote]
Agreed no more houshmawhatsmyname, Lee overpaid Evans, or brokefoot stallworth

[K-Dog]

[quote name='B-more Ravor' timestamp='1327418488' post='971034']
A thorough look at the Ravens roster and salary cap status for 2012:

[url="http://www.ravens24x7.com/columns/The-Money-Clip-Baltimore-Ravens-Salary-Cap-Analysis/RAVENS-ROSTER-OUTLOOK-The-Salary-Cap-will-usher-in-change"]http://www.ravens24x...usher-in-change[/url]
[/quote]

Great link.
Thanks for posting it.

and yes 7m for Ed Reed. Yikes.
I am NOT saying he is not worth it, but I am saying YIKES.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='jus'_crAzy' timestamp='1327440082' post='971661']
No more FA WRs please. We've already allocated over $10mil to the WR position for 2012, if I'm reading that right. Besides, I don't think I can take a 3rd crucial drop to end us in the playoffs (sorry Lee... and Housh... I guess).

Pay Flacco.
Tag Rice.
Re-sign JJ, Redding, Grubbs, and Gurode.
Tender Webb, Cary, and McClain. 1, 2, 1st right.
Cut Fox and Lee (sorry again).

The re-signing phase will be the trickiest. How do you value older (but still very capable) players' contracts? Incentive-based mid to low level deals?
[/quote]
I dont think we can re-sign all those players, not unless guys are willing to take serious pay cuts, oh and McClain is UFA so we cant just tender him. Another guy to consider letting go is Bryant McKinnie. I think he is due around 4M and even though he was solid this season, we need to get younger along the Oline. Let Jah Reid play and give Oher the LT duties. He may not be great, but I think he is good enough. Also consider drafting another OT.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1327447463' post='971845']

Cut Ed Reed????

I don't ever see that happening There are other places to cut. Ed Jones? Chris Carr? Foxworth? [b]I'm not sure even BA is safe.[/b]
[/quote]

B.A. is a FA. I'll be surprised if he's re-signed.

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='jj2020' timestamp='1327449026' post='971878']
Agreed no more houshmawhatsmyname, Lee overpaid Evans, or brokefoot stallworth
[/quote]

He hurt his foot. Dude made a great 1 handed catch against Houston. Balls get dropped sometimes! He deserves a real chance at redemption

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1327432062' post='971456']
thats wrong, you take a cap hit for cuttin them, thats the dead money figure, of $3m and $1.3 for fox and evans respectively. that is netted off against the savings, to give you a net saving or 2.6 and 3 million.
[/quote]

Almost. The dead money is netted against the player's Cap number.

So, for Foxworth, his Cap number is $8.6M. The dead money for him is $3M, so the savings is $5.6M.

For Evans, the Cap number is $5.758M. The dead money is $1.383M, so the savings is $4.375M.

For each that is there scheduled base salary for 2012 (plus a roster bonus for Evans) and since they are in the last year of their contracts, that entire amount is rebated against the cap because there is no more bonus shares to accelerate.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='TheRavenouseD2008' timestamp='1327432206' post='971466']
why do they have foxy on there I thought he stated because of his knee he would be retiring at the end of the season that means he is a no cap hit
[/quote]

A retirement is treated the same as a release - any future unaccounted-for bonus prorations accelerate against the Cap.

In Foxworth's case, since it's the last year of the deal, there aren't any future bonus prorations to account for, but the 2012 portion of his bonus money does still count. That will count no matter what, so he'll count $3M against the Cap whether he retires or is released.

[ThePurpleWall]

[quote name='Npane171' timestamp='1327421571' post='971126']

Can we even afford one of those dudes? I don't know. I think we should keep Lee. Yeah, we're all a little pissed off about his play Sunday but he also made some great catches and has consistently been the receiver that GETS OPEN (even in such a short period of time he had the chance to even play). Besides, with his injured-season and lackluster year due to his contract can probably be re-structured in some way where he gets a bit less. Neither Colston or V. Jackson are going to be taking anything less than what they made this past season. There is no way that helps us with a cap looming over our heads. Got to keep the talent and experience we've got. Try to trade D. Reed, Chris Carr, and Foxworth out of Baltimore. As Fly has suggested, maybe even trade Micahel Oher for another player or for draft pick. With those trades we could really make a dent in our offensive line, which is priority number one on the field. Off the field it's and OC. I think we're FINE regarding receivers for Joe. We have Boldin and Torrey, Pitta (which is quickly taking the place of Todd), Dickson who is fast but not as sure, and Rice who plays well as a receiver as we've seen. Doss and LaQuan Williams will almost assuredly get much better in this off season and have some impact next year, hopefully a Torrey-like season happens for one or both of them. But, if you just keep Lee Evans one could say we're "stacked". No reason to get rid of this guy.

Oline first, then Pass rush for team re-structuring. OC replacement. Those are the priorities.
[/quote]

we paied Cam Cameron 2 million a year,so i think we can afford a good OC,

[codizzle]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' timestamp='1327454412' post='971998']


He hurt his foot. Dude made a great 1 handed catch against Houston. Balls get dropped sometimes! He deserves a real chance at redemption
[/quote]
They get dropped all the time.. It's natural

[Ravens2013ornothing]

It has been 4 years now and I can say being a die-hard ravens fan, this one stinged the most as I truely thought this was the year. All the numbers satistically made sense and everything looked like the Lombardi would finally be ours. Sunday there were some crucial decesions by the coaching staff that were not met. From the 1st qtr. 4th and inches call in the red zone, deciding not to go for it, to not calling a timeout to calm and collect your kicker. We can go back and forth to evans drop and cundiffs kick, but it wont matter. All we can do is hold our heads high and realize the pats never beat us on sunday, we beat ourselves on sunday. We must look at the areas that we need fixed as there is not many as before. I can honestly say this is the strongest raven team in years. Defensively we are solid. Lewis and Reed coming back, we must do justice and take advantage of this oppurtunity as these veterans dont have much time left, and Reed deserves a ring the most as Lewis already has one. Webb and Smith are coming along great! Pollard looks like he replaced Landry, if not I think he plays better and has his presence known if you come his way physically. Resign Ngata, if you dont you better get Free agent Seymour, although I would rather have Ngata and keep it original. Now to my conclusion, I pray this gets done as the defense being the big brother can only protect his little brother for so long, before he needs to start protecting himself. The defense always is the reason why we even have a chance, will now we need to balance it out finally and get that ring. Dump Evans and Cundiff, set the tone for the new season and for all the players to give them a sense of urgency, seriousness, and committment to believing in fixing the key errors to getting the lombardi. A BIG KEY IS STRENGTHEN THE OFFENSIVE LINE. Open the field for Flacco, get free agent Vincent Jackson, I gurantee you with 81 and 82 this will be a deadly combination and all 3 will compliment off eachother nice. The running game will open up drastically for ray rice now also. If Flacco has time with more than 1 or 2 consistent reliable weapons he will put numbers up just like other elite qb's. He has the expirence 4 years in playoffs all years! I hope something strong like this happens this off season and the tone is set, for the ravens. There maybe a sore taste in our mouth but when we get that Lombardi 12.5 months from now it will only be that much sweeter.

[GrimCoconut]

Looking at the cap numbers closer, I think it will go something like this:

[b]Foxworth[/b]: is cut or traded. I doubt he has any trade value, so he's probably cut. He saves us 5.6 million. That's Ben Grubbs right there.
[b]Chris Carr[/b]: may remain with the team unless we can get a good trade for him. He provides depth and it's never bad to have depth. People will say he's expensive for depth and it's true, but we held onto Foxworth and we would only save 600k by releasing him, which makes no sense. He will either be traded or be a Raven.
[b]Evans[/b]: will probably get a call about restructuring his contract. I think he may be willing to do it since he blew the game for us. I think he remains with the team. He is a big question mark right now. His cap hit is expensive, and we can save a lot of money (4.375Million) by releasing him. Still, he has potential and I'm not sure we release him yet. He won't remain with the team with that salary, though. This draft is too deep for us to keep him with a that high of a cap hit.
[b]Billy Cundiff[/b]: releasing him makes no sense. He will be here another year. Let's stop talking about cutting him. Cutting him clears up only 400k. That's a rookie's salary. A low-draft pick rookie. That's peanut money.
[b]Ed Reed & Ray Lewis[/b]: They are tied together. I doubt they take pay cuts. They both know they are worth a lot. They are the franchise.
[b]Birk[/b]: He will retire. He shouldn't be back with the team. I think he's done. I don't think he can last the whole season anymore. Last year he had problems down the stretch, and this year he has problems down the stretch. I love Birk. He's an exceptional player. I hate to lose him because of his intelligence, but it's time.
[b]Gurode[/b]: Not sure here. He may come back, but it's not definite. We may just draft a center and plug him into the spot. He's definitely a good stop gap, and I won't be upset with him there for a year. I think with a full offseason to be with the team, he will be good for us.
[b]Tom Zbikowski[/b]: someone like the Bears will lure him from us. There are teams that need a safety and there isn't much out there. Safeties have a history of leaving here that aren't called Ed Reed. I think this man is gone. He will be too expensive I think.
[b]Haruki Nakamura[/b]: He's a special teamer, so I doubt he gets much credit. With that said, he's talented. I believe he remains with us because he doesn't have a name like Zbikowski and I believe he will be overlooked. He's resigned for a small contract.
[b]Kris Wilson[/b]: He's gone. He won't be back, not because he's bad (I liked him), but because we're not carrying three tight ends on the roster. I think Dickson and Pitta step up, Pitta especially. Pitta is #1 and Dickson is #2.
[b]Ray Rice[/b]: he comes back. Everybody knows it. He's not going anywhere. I think he may even give a discount if we needed it to sign Grubbs. He seems like that kind of guy. Without Grubbs he doesn't make the impact he needs. I hope he sees it this way, anyway.
[b]Corey Redding[/b]: Gone. I like him a lot, actually. Last year I knew he was going to be good for us this year. He won't be back unless he comes for the minimum. We can't afford him and McPhee is stepping up. I hope we can resign him because I like his leadership, but that's just how it goes.
[b]Brandon McKinney[/b]: He comes back if he signs cheap, but I think he walks. He's not critical to our defense, but he is good depth. I'd like to keep him but if he goes that's OK. We can draft a replacement. We already have Art Jones.
[b]Jameel McClain[/b]: He will not be here. He's going to walk. The Ravens will not get into a bidding war for him, and other teams will increase his value because the defense stepped up when Ray Lewis was out and he was in there with him. Someone's giving him a fat contract like Scott. I won't be surprised if Rex goes after him. He might land in Philly, New York (Giants or Jets), or even Arizona. They all need linebackers and I think they will value him.
[b]Edgar Jones[/b]: He'll probably be back. Harbaugh likes special teamers and that's what he is.
[b]Jarret Johnson[/b]: I say he comes back at a discount for us. I won't be surprised if he walks, but I think he stays because he likes the team and wants to be with the team. He's an OLB that is best at stopping the run, not as good against the pass. I think that and his age will devalue him in the eyes of other teams. He also has a lot of competition in Mario Williams and other OLB in this free agency.
[b]Ben Grubbs[/b]: I think we get this man a contract. I think he stays a Raven. I'm not 100% sure now, but I think he remains. We can make the space for him. We build around him and Yanda and remake the line.
[b]Brendon Ayanbadejo[/b]: I think he's gone, but I'm not sure. It depends. We have a lot of linebackers, just no great ones. He's not that good in defense. He's OK. He's best as special teams. If we keep him it's because of his special teams abilities.
[b]Webb[/b]: This man gets a contract, but I think he gets a tender this year. We have a lot of contracts to do (Flacco, Rice, Grubbs). I don't see us having time for Webb. Who knows, though. I won't be surprised if we give him a 1st round tender and then sign him next year.
[b]Carey Williams[/b]: He stays with the team. He played well and impressed the organization. He most likely gets a 2nd round tender. We normally tender as long as we can until we can't.
[b]Dannell Ellerbe[/b]: Nobody will go after this guy. He comes back.
[b]Matt Lawrence[/b]: Gone. That's all I'm saying.

So, the simplified version is:
[b]Retain[/b]: Ellerbe, Williams, Webb, Grubbs, Johnson, Jones, Rice, Gurode, Nakamura, Cundiff, Evans, Carr.
[b]Release[/b]: Lawrence, Ayanbadejo, McClain, McKinney, Redding, Wilson, Birk, Zbikowski, Foxworth

[b]*Flacco[/b]: I wanted to include this, because I think we do extend Flacco's rookie contract. I don't think he goes into his final year without an extension.

[PDO]

In any salary cap league... it becomes an effiiency contest, nothing more, nothing less. Getting the most bang for your buck is how you'll win championships.

Ravens were spoiled this year with the output they got from several players including Rice, Webb, McClain, Grubbs, Pollard, Smith, Pitta, Dickson; tough break that a lot of them are all due for new pacts this year.

That said, nobody loses because they're paying their good players.

Looking up and down the Raven's roster, there's very few bad pacts. Reed might be a shade high, but he also allows the Ravens to do a lot of things they couldn't dream of doing with almost anybody else at FS. Foxworth was obviously a bust (largely due to injury), and will be cut. Evans will likely be cut, though that's a tough call.

Beyond that though, there's not a lot of flexibility here. Would Reed consider re-structuring his deal? I believe he's in the last year of it. If he's going to keep playing (and that's an if), I wonder if he would do a 3 or 4 year deal to bring that number down a bit? Cutting Carr does nothing. Lewis won't restructure. Ngata just signed. Suggs deal is still pretty fresh. Carr is high, but cutting him is useless against the cap. If you can deal him to lose the dollars all together that's a different story.

Going to be a lot of work for Newsome, and I suspect we will have a completely re-jigged offensive line in the near future.

I think the Micheal Oher experiment is nearing it's expirty date.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='keebl3rs' timestamp='1327434090' post='971517']
You guys are crazy in thinking there's even a chance of us getting Vincent Jackson.

Dream on dreamers, dream on!
[/quote]

Big name diva receiver who will demand a contract that exceeds his value, yeah it's pretty much an impossibility Jackson winds up a Raven. Add in the character issues, the DUIs, etc, and he's really not a guy the FO usually signs.

If this report is correct, the cap situation is a bit more bleak than I originally anticipated. I originally thought we would be keeping Evans, but if releasing him frees up that much space the FO might not have a choice. That would mean we wasted a fourth round pick though, which is very disappointing.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='B-more Ravor' timestamp='1327457001' post='972036']


Almost. The dead money is netted against the player's Cap number.

So, for Foxworth, his Cap number is $8.6M. The dead money for him is $3M, so the savings is $5.6M.

For Evans, the Cap number is $5.758M. The dead money is $1.383M, so the savings is $4.375M.

For each that is there scheduled base salary for 2012 (plus a roster bonus for Evans) and since they are in the last year of their contracts, that entire amount is rebated against the cap because there is no more bonus shares to accelerate.
[/quote]Awh I missed understood your table I didn't realise your saving was net off the swap cap amount.

You say that we can carry over our cap we haven't used this year. Does that mean a team like the bucs can carry over the 20 odd mil they have spare or is it capped to a certain amount