Michael Oher

[flynismo]

Here's basically how I see things with Oher.

As I mentioned earlier, coming out he was viewed as a "boom or bust" prospect. He had obvious physical tools, and glaring red flags. Among the red flags were his work ethic, effort, intelligence for the game, and inconsistency.

Here are a couple scouting reports from his college days:

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2009/2/11/753280/scouting-report-michael-oh

http://walterfootball.com/pro2009moher.php

And now, despite an impressive rookie season, we see that all these flaws are still there, and not getting any better (arguably getting even worse).

After three years (3 years!) we still have no idea if Oher is what we were hoping for. And that is very telling in itself -- unless we are talking about the QB position, if you dont know if someone is worth it after three years in the league, then he usually isn't worth it.

We all like Oher the person, and his story pulls at our heart. But as cold and brutal as it sounds, this isn't a Miss America competition or social club; those things mean very little.

[flynismo]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1327356379' post='969676']
I just gotta laugh at this topic because I was the one saying Gaither was the better tackle all along. People said Oher should be taking over his spot on the left side... I guess they got caught up in the movie/media nonsense.

Gaither punked the Ravens the entire game against the Chargers. I know he had health issues(but I still think he was just another victim of "Harbaugh's Doghouse" where if he doesn't like a player he's just no going to ever like that player), but he's still a beast. I'd do anything I could to get that guy back on the offensive line.

And is Andre Gurode the answer at center for the next couple years? Or do we need a new replacement for Birk?
[/quote]

erm ... alot of people thought Gaither was as good or better. His problems are completely differen than Oher's.

I think if we can make significant upgrades at both tackle spots, we can scrape by with Gurode, who has been completely unimpressive when he has been on the field.

Heck, if we can get our franchise LT and a big, physical center who can open holes in the run game, I'd even be okay with being stuck with Oher at RT.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1327356379' post='969676']
I just gotta laugh at this topic because I was the one saying Gaither was the better tackle all along. People said Oher should be taking over his spot on the left side... I guess they got caught up in the movie/media nonsense.

Gaither punked the Ravens the entire game against the Chargers. I know he had health issues(but I still think he was just another victim of "Harbaugh's Doghouse" where if he doesn't like a player he's just no going to ever like that player), but he's still a beast. I'd do anything I could to get that guy back on the offensive line.

And is Andre Gurode the answer at center for the next couple years? Or do we need a new replacement for Birk?
[/quote]
I felt the same way about Gaither at the time, but looking at it in retrospect, I'm glad we have McKinnie.

And as far as center, my guess is Birk retires, we draft someone, and he sits behind Gurode, who starts next season.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1327356729' post='969692']

erm ... alot of people thought Gaither was as good or better. His problems are completely differen than Oher's.

I think if we can make significant upgrades at both tackle spots, we can scrape by with [b]Gurode, who has been completely unimpressive when he has been on the field.[/b]

Heck, if we can get our franchise LT and a big, physical center who can open holes in the run game, I'd even be okay with being stuck with Oher at RT.
[/quote]
He struggled at LG replacing Grubbs, but he came in for an injured Matt Birk at center vs. the Browns and I completely forgot that Birk was out of the game. My conclusion:

Gurode at center > Gurode at guard

[flynismo]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1327356067' post='969665']
I was really pissed at Cundiff and Evans, but not Oher. We need depth at OL. Keep him and don't worry about the yellow flags. He's young and will get better with time.
[/quote]

Don't worry about the flags?? Should we not worry about all the sacks either? Those are the only two things he has to do -- block people and not draw penalties.

[flynismo]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1327356915' post='969701']
He struggled at LG replacing Grubbs, but he came in for an injured Matt Birk at center vs. the Browns and I completely forgot that Birk was out of the game. My conclusion:

Gurode at center > Gurode at guard
[/quote]

Definitely. And to Gurode's credit, the Browns have a mean young stud at DT.

[GrimCoconut]

I like Gurode at center, honestly. He plays well there. Keep him or draft a replacement in the late round. We'll be OK there.

Again, about Oher: yeah, he's got a lot of potential. He can and has done a good job. Maybe we're just not the place for him, though. Maybe he's a triangle peg trying to fit into a circle hole--just not going to happen. I think we could trade him to the Rams. They need a tackle. They may be willing to give up a 2nd for him. Oher has a lot of talent. I think Fisher could bring it out of him. At least, I hope he feels that way.

We can part ways with Oher. The thing is, we need to make a decision: we have Ramon Harewood and Jah Reid. We have Michael Oher and McKinnie. We have a draft coming up and people want us to draft more OL. Yeah, we need help. I can't deny that. But I mean we have to decide whether to part ways with one of these players. We can't have Harewood riding the IR for 3 years. Jah Reid wasn't drafted to be a bench warmer from Ozzie's statements. What's most interesting is that we drafted Jah Reid in the first place.

This leads me to my next question: if the front office was sold on Oher, why draft Reid? If sold on Oher and Reid tandem, why sign McKinnie? Yeah, true, Jah was raw and needed some coaching. That's a logical explanation. But then what, are we switching Oher back to LT this year now that Jah had a year to learn? I am very doubtful this happens.

I wouldn't be surprised if Oher is gone. I hope nobody else is. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to get rid of Oher for 3rd. I would want a 2nd for him. He's at least worth that, and for some teams that's great. But for the Ravens, who want to win a Super Bowl, I don't think we can do it with Oher the way he is right now. Either he makes some major dedication to this game, or he needs to leave our team. There comes a time you need to step up your game. Flacco stepped up. Grubbs stepped up. Rice stepped up. Oher hasn't stepped up, he stepped down, back, and twisted his ankle.

[The Raven]

[quote name='keebl3rs' timestamp='1327304439' post='967939']
I will say this. There were two plays in which I have absolutely no idea what Oher was doing. Watch Oher on this blitz..

[url="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/1/22/2725969/video-torrey-smith-leaps-and-stretches-for-incredible-touchdown"]http://www.sbnation....dible-touchdown[/url]

It almost looks like he was suppose to do that.. Andy Moeller.. can you explain this? Why are you sending Oher out to block a CB against that kind of blitz with Rice helping the left side.. oO

I don't get it.
[/quote]

It's called a screen.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1327361079' post='969872']

It's called a screen. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]
Don't worry. He's just not used to Cam Cameron calling a screen for a WR wherein someone is actually blocking by design.

[flynismo]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1327360585' post='969852']
I like Gurode at center, honestly. He plays well there. Keep him or draft a replacement in the late round. We'll be OK there.

Again, about Oher: yeah, he's got a lot of potential. He can and has done a good job. Maybe we're just not the place for him, though. Maybe he's a triangle peg trying to fit into a circle hole--just not going to happen. I think we could trade him to the Rams. They need a tackle. They may be willing to give up a 2nd for him. Oher has a lot of talent. I think Fisher could bring it out of him. At least, I hope he feels that way.

We can part ways with Oher. The thing is, we need to make a decision: we have Ramon Harewood and Jah Reid. We have Michael Oher and McKinnie. We have a draft coming up and people want us to draft more OL. Yeah, we need help. I can't deny that. But I mean we have to decide whether to part ways with one of these players. We can't have Harewood riding the IR for 3 years. Jah Reid wasn't drafted to be a bench warmer from Ozzie's statements. What's most interesting is that we drafted Jah Reid in the first place.

This leads me to my next question: if the front office was sold on Oher, why draft Reid? If sold on Oher and Reid tandem, why sign McKinnie? Yeah, true, Jah was raw and needed some coaching. That's a logical explanation. But then what, are we switching Oher back to LT this year now that Jah had a year to learn? I am very doubtful this happens.

I wouldn't be surprised if Oher is gone. I hope nobody else is. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to get rid of Oher for 3rd. I would want a 2nd for him. He's at least worth that, and for some teams that's great. But for the Ravens, who want to win a Super Bowl, I don't think we can do it with Oher the way he is right now. Either he makes some major dedication to this game, or he needs to leave our team. There comes a time you need to step up your game. Flacco stepped up. Grubbs stepped up. Rice stepped up. Oher hasn't stepped up, he stepped down, back, and twisted his ankle.
[/quote]


As far as Oher not fitting here, I actually couldn't think of a better place and scheme. When god invented the zone block scheme, he had Oher in mind. And playing next to Yanda means that he has great support, he only has to pull his weight. Those two things, plus Ray Rice's one cut running style is just the perfect environment for Oher, as it utilizes every ounce of his natural athleticism, and doesn't require him to hold his blocks for long -- just hit and move to the next guy.
Basically, if he can't tear it up here, I don't see him doing any better any where else...if he cant do better elsewhere, then the problem is him, not his surroundings.

I pretty much agree that drafting Reid, when we had other major holes to fill, says quite a bit.

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

I agree, just too many mistaakes

[The Raven]

I voted yes. We should trade him, but only for the right price. He missed blocks last night. He got beat. He can't move anybody. We run it left so much because of him. He can't seal the edge. If we can get a 3rd and a late rounder, pull the trigger. The only issue is we don't have a sure-fire improvement. Reid? Perhaps. He doesn't have the athleticism that Oher does, but he's a ton more aggressive, and lets face it, this game is won by football players, not athletes. I think Reid could be a better tackle than Oher. He needs to get quicker and work on his balance, but an offseason in an NFL weight room will do him good. Not to mention, he is a freak of a run blocker. We do still have Harewood on IR. Anyone think that guy could pan out? Size and athleticism, but that only gets you so far.

[The Raven]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1327361256' post='969879']
Don't worry. He's just not used to Cam Cameron calling a screen for a WR wherein someone is actually blocking by design.
[/quote]

Haha true. The sad part is, the design was iffy, and I don't think it was a safe 3rd down call.

I would prefer a screen to be run with a slot receiver on the same side takign the outside CB with the tackle or TE gettign the nickel/going upfield. I'm glad Torrey is a monster. He bailed Cam out there.

[flynismo]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1327361794' post='969897']
I voted yes. We should trade him, but only for the right price. He missed blocks last night. He got beat. [b]He can't move anybody. We run it left so much because of him. He can't seal the edge.[/b] If we can get a 3rd and a late rounder, pull the trigger. The only issue is we don't have a sure-fire improvement. Reid? Perhaps. He doesn't have the athleticism that Oher does, but he's a ton more aggressive, and lets face it, this game is won by football players, not athletes. I think Reid could be a better tackle than Oher. He needs to get quicker and work on his balance, but an offseason in an NFL weight room will do him good. Not to mention, he is a freak of a run blocker. We do still have Harewood on IR. Anyone think that guy could pan out? Size and athleticism, but that only gets you so far.
[/quote]


That's just it...

If he were more of an asset as a run blocker, I think I could overlook how horrible he is in pass pro. But the dude has brought close to nothing to the table for two years...at least Reid, there is a good chance he can give us what we need in the run game. I dont think Reid will be any better in pass pro than Oher is, or marginally better at most. But as a run blocker, that alone makes it worth giving him a shot.

[flynismo]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1327361962' post='969904']

Haha true. The sad part is, the design was iffy, and I don't think it was a safe 3rd down call.

I would prefer a screen to be run with a slot receiver on the same side takign the outside CB with the tackle or TE gettign the nickel/going upfield. I'm glad Torrey is a monster. He bailed Cam out there.
[/quote]


The design was VERY iffy, but on that particular play, it was perfect. The only difference is that Oher should have done what that slot reciever normally would have -- take out McCourty as soon as the ball was snapped

[The Raven]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1327362125' post='969909']


That's just it...

If he were more of an asset as a run blocker, I think I could overlook how horrible he is in pass pro. But the dude has brought close to nothing to the table for two years...at least Reid, there is a good chance he can give us what we need in the run game. I dont think Reid will be any better in pass pro than Oher is, or marginally better at most. But as a run blocker, that alone makes it worth giving him a shot.
[/quote]

I know he came on for jumbo situations on the few occasions Cam remembered we were allowed to do that and he wrecked people. On at least one occasion I saw him take a DE/OLB 5 yards down field.

[CapoRocky]

I stated the other day that when we drafted Oher the following players were still on the board: Nicks, Britt, and Matthews. We are the ones that got blindsided.

[CapoRocky]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1327356940' post='969703'] Don't worry about the flags?? Should we not worry about all the sacks either? Those are the only two things he has to do -- block people and not draw penalties.[/quote]

Okay, sign a LT and bench his sorry ***.

[flynismo]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1327363148' post='969967']

Okay, sign a LT and bench his sorry ***.
[/quote]


Lol, that works for me!

[flynismo]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1327363095' post='969962']
I stated the other day that when we drafted Oher the following players were still on the board: Nicks, Britt, and Matthews. We are the ones that got blindsided.
[/quote]


ZING!

[flynismo]

Looking at the voting, I'm surprised so many people agree. I thought for sure I was going to be in the running for the 100 neg club for this one lol

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1327363637' post='970004']
Looking at the voting, I'm surprised so many people agree. I thought for sure I was going to be in the running for the 100 neg club for this one lol
[/quote]
well someones just set you on your way [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/268213.gif[/img]

[flynismo]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1327363917' post='970012']
well someones just set you on your way [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/268213.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Ugh. I'm the Flacco of the forums. No respect!!

[Ravens Fan in Ontario]

There is only 1 LT worth a 1st round pick Kalil and he'll likely go 3rd overall. So unless we're willing to "sell the farm" I don't think that's going to happen. We might get a C at our draft position, Konz (Wisconsin) likely.

1. Luck
2. Blackmon
3. Kalil

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1327364184' post='970025']


Ugh. I'm the Flacco of the forums. No respect!!
[/quote]
maybe you need cut and a blind man should type for you instead, it would make the haters happy

[flynismo]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1327364507' post='970048']
maybe you need cut and a blind man should type for you instead
[/quote]
Like anyone would notice the difference lol...

[keebl3rs]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1327361256' post='969879']
Don't worry. He's just not used to Cam Cameron calling a screen for a WR wherein someone is actually blocking by design.
[/quote]

Pretty much the truth lol

[The Raven]

I'd also like to point this out. People are making excuses about Oher getting his position changed from RT, to LT, and back. So? Yanda got moved from RT, to RG, tore his ACL and MCL, went back the RG, then to RT, now at RG again, and he's been an all pro at both, and a probowler at guard. that excuse doesn't cut it.

[GrimCoconut]

I still think it's time to trade and part ways with Oher. I hope someone wants a tackle bad and trades a 2nd for him. I will celebrate.

[The Raven]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1327461732' post='972134']
I still think it's time to trade and part ways with Oher. I hope someone wants a tackle bad and trades a 2nd for him. I will celebrate.
[/quote]

I would rather we had his replacement before we did that though. He would probably have decent-good trade value, but having him is better than having a Jah Reid that has been known to trip over air.