Flacco: Speaks About Elite QBs

[shootyoup]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1326573282' post='946817']

Once again, using facts when they suit you, and disregarding them when they don't. First and foremost, if there weren't 31 blatant drops by receivers, Flacco's completion percentage would be 62 percent. But that doesn't matter to you, does it? I don't care if you played in the league, 2 things are clear: you don't know football, and you don't actually watch the Ravens games.

Oh, number 3: You want Flacco gone. I'm beginning to think you're on the Wizard1 "The Ravens will lose to the Texans and Flacco won't be our starting qb next year" bandwagon.
[/quote]
Dude come on. Every single quarterback in the league has to deal with dropped passes, it's not a phenomenon that plagues only Flacco.
I also have a question, does anyone here think Tebow or Mark Sachez are great quarterbacks? Both have certainly "done what it takes to win (2 straight AFCCG for Sanchez!!!)," but they are disregarded because of their stats yet Flacco's performance is inflated in the minds of Ravens' fans. Doing enough to win does not make anyone elite because the supporting cast is very important. All I see is an extremely hypocritical stance regarding our QB, and when we lose he rarely gets any of the blame (among most fans, not necessarily the media). For example, we lost to Pitt last year not because of a struggling offense but because of an amazing impenetrable Steelers D, whice Rodgers tore apart 3 weeks later.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1326574984' post='946858']
I have always said this. I believe Flacco is the future of this franchise, but what gets me about you is the flippy floppy attitude. He was the savior (exaggerating a bit here) to you a few weeks ago and now you take any little pot shot you can at him. I am not a "Flacco lover", but I will stick up for the dude at all costs!
[/quote]
I don't blame you, he is our Quarterback and you should. I have a hard time dealing with a few people on here that (unlike yourself) think that Flacco is already elite. The guy is having an average season and they are still pushing for that status. We have to be able to be real on this site about what our team is doing and not get caught up in names. Flacco is the future of this team and it looks bright. However this season the man has clearly taking a step backwards. I'm even willing to concede to the fact that it might not all be on him, we can spread blame to Cam, Ray Rice stellar year, New weapons, dropped passes, offensive line woes. However we slice the pie it comes back to his play ultimately. Sorry that's the truth.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1326575102' post='946859']

I think you're joking.

If you're seriously using interceptions to determine how good a safety is in coverage, I think [b]Ravenslifer[/b] might have been right. Only three strong safeties broke up more passes than him last season. He broke up four passes in the play-off game(something you still haven't addressed). He was also one of the best blitzing safeties in the league too.

And again, he's just one player. The Chiefs have ballers on their defense.
[/quote]
All im sayin is the guy had a great rookie campaign. Middle of the league in picks. Thumper against the run, and a few sacks. Not sure that would make any quarterback scared to throw against him. Lets face it, he still was a rookie in his first NFL playoff game.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='shootyoup' timestamp='1326575541' post='946870']
Dude come on. Every single quarterback in the league has to deal with dropped passes, it's not a phenomenon that plagues only Flacco.
I also have a question, does anyone here think Tebow or Mark Sachez are great quarterbacks? Both have certainly "done what it takes to win (2 straight AFCCG for Sanchez!!!)," but they are disregarded because of their stats yet Flacco's performance is inflated in the minds of Ravens' fans. Doing enough to win does not make anyone elite because the supporting cast is very important. All I see is an extremely hypocritical stance regarding our QB, and when we lose he rarely gets any of the blame (among most fans, not necessarily the media). For example, we lost to Pitt last year not because of a struggling offense but because of an amazing impenetrable Steelers D, whice Rodgers tore apart 3 weeks later.
[/quote]

We lost in Pittsburgh last year because we made some really dumb mistakes. Flacco - bad interception. Ray Rice - bad fumble. Bang Bang, 21-7 lead gone. Who the heck said he was elite? Haven't you seen my 100 posts saying Flacco is NOT elite? There are 5 elite quarterbacks in this league. Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger. Period. Eli and Rivers are in the second tier. I have Flacco ranked below them, Matt Shaub and Tony Romo. That's number 9. Ready my posts, and don't make things up about what I've said. And yes, I negged you, because I am tired of people putting words in my mouth when in the last week I must have said a dozen times that Flacco is NOT elite. And I told YOU that last week. Clearly you ignore what I say. Elite quarterbacks would not have thrown that bad interception in San Diego where he "thought he could get around him". An elite quarterback would have found a way to win a close game like Jacksonville. Flacco can't yet. Seriously, I am really, really sick of being told what I believe after I've told everyone my stance several times.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='shootyoup' timestamp='1326575541' post='946870']
Dude come on. Every single quarterback in the league has to deal with dropped passes, it's not a phenomenon that plagues only Flacco.
I also have a question, does anyone here think Tebow or Mark Sachez are great quarterbacks? Both have certainly "done what it takes to win (2 straight AFCCG for Sanchez!!!)," but they are disregarded because of their stats yet Flacco's performance is inflated in the minds of Ravens' fans. Doing enough to win does not make anyone elite because the supporting cast is very important. All I see is an extremely hypocritical stance regarding our QB, and when we lose[b] he rarely gets any of the blame[/b] (among most fans, not necessarily the media). For example, we lost to Pitt last year not because of a struggling offense but because of an amazing impenetrable Steelers D, whice Rodgers tore apart 3 weeks later.
[/quote]

What the heck, he gets crucified on these boards when we lose. He got crucified after our WIN in Buffalo last year. Read my posts, for the love of God. I do not think Flacco is elite. I think is is very good, not elite, Not elite, nor will he be until he has another 3-4 years in the league. Seriously, do not respond to me if you don't know my stance on things.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='shootyoup' timestamp='1326575541' post='946870']
Dude come on. Every single quarterback in the league has to deal with dropped passes, it's not a phenomenon that plagues only Flacco.
I also have a question, does anyone here think Tebow or Mark Sachez are great quarterbacks? Both have certainly "done what it takes to win (2 straight AFCCG for Sanchez!!!)," but they are disregarded because of their stats yet Flacco's performance is inflated in the minds of Ravens' fans. Doing enough to win does not make anyone elite because the supporting cast is very important.[b] All I see is an extremely hypocritical stance regarding our QB, and[/b] [b]when we lose he rarely gets any of the blame (among most fans[/b], [b]not necessarily the media). For example, we lost to Pitt last year not because of a struggling offense but because of an amazing impenetrable Steelers D, whice Rodgers tore apart 3 weeks later.[/b]
[/quote]

Not sure what forums you've been reading. I'd say see more fans bury Joe when the team loses than those that don't. Considering the mistakes he makes, some of the criticism is deserved but at times, people take their negative assessment of Joe too far.

Who exactly has claimed last year's loss to the Steelers in the play-offs wasn't primarily due to the offense?

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1326575456' post='946868']
The Chiefs have a bad defense? [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/th_204070.gif[/img] Even this year when half the roster was on IR they had a good defense down the stretch (and Aaron Rodgers would agree). They [b]easily [/b]would've won the West again with Cassel.
[/quote]

I agree, with the way San Diego and Denver played early in the season.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1326575913' post='946879']
All im sayin is the guy had a great rookie campaign. Middle of the league in picks. Thumper against the run, and a few sacks. Not sure that would make any quarterback scared to throw against him. Lets face it, he still was a rookie in his first NFL playoff game.
[/quote]

[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img]

Who gives a damn if QBs were afraid to throw against him? When they did in the second half of last season, they only completed half their passes, had a 60.0 passer rating, got picked off three times, saw five passes broken up and only collected one touchdown([url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/19/fantasy-sophomore-spotlight-%E2%80%93-eric-berry/"]link[/url]). Not surprisingly, when Joe tested him in the play-offs, four of his passes were broken up. So that he was "still a rookie" means jack.

You're obviously not going to address KC's other players, so I'll just let this "debate" rest.

Joe played a good game against a good defense. End of story.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1326576729' post='946896']

[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img]

Who gives a damn if QBs were afraid to throw against him? When they did in the second half of last season, they only completed half their passes, had a 60.0 passer rating, got picked off three times, saw five passes broken up and only collected one touchdown([url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/19/fantasy-sophomore-spotlight-%E2%80%93-eric-berry/"]link[/url]). Not surprisingly, when Joe tested him in the play-offs, four of his passes were broken up. So that he was "still a rookie" means jack.

You're obviously not going to address KC's other players, so I'll just this "debate" rest.

Joe played a good game against a good defense. End of story.
[/quote]

Sadly, Flacco-haters go so far as to discredit other players accomplishments just to make their own points.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='shootyoup' timestamp='1326575541' post='946870']
Dude come on. Every single quarterback in the league has to deal with dropped passes, it's not a phenomenon that plagues only Flacco.
I also have a question, does anyone here think Tebow or Mark Sachez are great quarterbacks? Both have certainly "done what it takes to win (2 straight AFCCG for Sanchez!!!)," but they are disregarded because of their stats yet Flacco's performance is inflated in the minds of Ravens' fans. Doing enough to win does not make anyone elite because the supporting cast is very important. All I see is an extremely hypocritical stance regarding our QB, and when we lose he rarely gets any of the blame (among most fans, not necessarily the media). For example, we lost to Pitt last year not because of a struggling offense but because of an amazing impenetrable Steelers D, whice Rodgers tore apart 3 weeks later.
[/quote]

Do not attempt to tell me what my stance on things are after I've told the whole board what they are about 20 times in the past week.

[shootyoup]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1326577677' post='946930']

Do not attempt to tell me what my stance on things are after I've told the whole board what they are about 20 times in the past week.
[/quote]
Ok this is the third time you have said this. I only adressed you ONCE in my post and it was about your claim that Flacco's completion percentage would be 5% higher if nobody dropped any passes, and my response was every single receiver drops passes. This is almost irrelevant to a qb's season stats as a whole because we can just as easily go into dropped interceptions, amazing catches, fumbles recovered, etc..
My question regarding Tebow and Sanchez, if you choose to read it again, was a question for every person, not just you. I have read multiple people claim "he does enough to win" and that's what I was addressing, it was not necessarily an attack on you. Also I only used the word "elite" once, and it was again not even in response to you.
I personally do not spend enough time on this forum to really associate any ones beliefs with their screen names, and I'm sorry if you took offense to my post, but I don't see where I put a single word in your mouth. I guess it may seem like I am implying I am speaking directly about you, but that truly was not my intention.

[shootyoup]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1326576208' post='946885']

Not sure what forums you've been reading. I'd say see more fans bury Joe when the team loses than those that don't. Considering the mistakes he makes, some of the criticism is deserved but at times, people take their negative assessment of Joe too far.

Who exactly has claimed last year's loss to the Steelers in the play-offs wasn't primarily due to the offense?
[/quote]
My writing in that post is sort of convoluted. I meant to say that when we lose these tough games, none of the blame goes to the QB, there is always an excuse; Cam is either too conservative one week or alternatively too pass happy the next, the opposing defense is always amazing so we are expected to score 16 points, we lack any play makers because Boldin is an overrated, slow, stone-handed scrub, and the line is not always perfect. It is just that, aside from vs Pitt this year and a few rare instances, I have not seen Flacco just go above and beyond and put a team on his back. We always seem to come up short and the blame is always facilitated. Many fans (majority of posters on this thread) like to overanalyze a situation and try to put every single one of Flacco's performance in extreme context to make up for him. For example, I made a point in a another thread that against us, Alex Smith was sacked 9 times, escaped pressure a lot, had no run game, and played mediocre/below average. That performance has us saying he was exposed as a game manager. Many people refuse to take a similar stance on Flacco when he plays even worse (vs. NYJ) and claim it was enough to win.

Lastly I understand that romo, Brees, Manning, Rodgers all have better weapons. But Flacco has not approached them in terms of stats. We can always speculate that on GB he would have 45 touchdowns, but that is not how things work. There is not always a linear relationship between weapons and eprformance (in a similar way many NBA players play well in 10 minutes a game, but do not double output when they are given more responsibility and 20 minutes) and Flacco has not produced on the same level. By putting up huge numbers, a QB is shouldering a large load of an offense. Guys like Romo and Rivers have been forced to do this, and Flacco, throughout his career, has not. I guess my point is he may never be capable, and we are being extremely delusional by coming up with too many excuses for him. His performance in the regular season + our defense and running is great in the regular season, but in terms of winning a SB, that has not happened and it's ridiculous to say that he for sure will given his performances.

[flynismo]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1326570750' post='946761']
Yeah your right, how could i overlook the facts in the game. ( Fact 1) Eric Berry was a rookie. Fact 2. Matt Cassel was horrible in the game. 9/18 for 70 yards 3 int's and a 20.4 quarterback rating. A game so bad in fact, it left its head coach on the hot seat the following year. While i try to take nothing away from Flacco's huge playoff game.......wow[b] Time of possession is all one has to look at, to find out what happened to that top ten defense that you admire. [/b]Baltimore time of possession ( 41:44 minutes) Kansas City (18:16). Oh yeah not to mention Flacco's stellar passing day didn't come without the usual two fumbles and one lost. Do you honestly believe that Flacco's fumbles would not have cost another team more games. Our defense makes up for his mistakes constantly. Must be nice. Oh and 1/28/09, Fly, Ravenslifer, BmoreRavens732, Purock, i would expect more of a challenge from you guys. Glad you cosigned to this mess.
[/quote]


I don't suppose Flacco had anything to do with us dominating the time of possession.

And aren't you the same guy who wants to have Cam Newton's babies, but want to discredit Eric Berry because he was "just a rookie"?

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1326576155' post='946884']

What the heck, he gets crucified on these boards when we lose. He got crucified after our WIN in Buffalo last year.
[/quote]


Was gonna say, people cry about him when he wins. It's really sad that certain people are more concerned with whether Flacco throws for 400 yards, 4 TDs and gets 60 rushing yards than whether or not he makes clutch plays and does what it takes to win games.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1326615879' post='948208']


I don't suppose Flacco had anything to do with us dominating the time of possession.

And aren't you the same guy who wants to have Cam Newton's babies, but want to discredit Eric Berry because he was "just a rookie"?
[/quote]
Discredit Eric berry nah. I just said why would a Qb be scared of a rookie playing in his first NFL playoff game that has 4 picks.

Cam is a beast. Not many better than him in this league including Flacco. lol this should start it up.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1326616141' post='948209']


Was gonna say, people cry about him when he wins. It's really sad that certain people are more concerned with whether Flacco throws for 400 yards, 4 TDs and gets 60 rushing yards than whether or not he makes clutch plays and does what it takes to win games.
[/quote]

It's not even that. Buffalo last year - Flacco throws 250 yards, 3 TDs no picks, quarterback rating 111. The Bills, more specifically Ryan Fitzpatrick and Lee Evans, owned the defense the whole day. Unfortunately we gave up 10 points in the fourth quarter, but the defense that day was bad. Giving up those 34 was almost entirely on the defense's inability to stop the Buffalo passing game. It happens. But then Flacco leads us down the field in OT, we kick a fieldgoal and win. Then you have like 50 posters on this board getting on here and blaming Flacco, not "the offense", not "the passing game", but Flacco, for not scoring enough and almost costing us the game. I really don't think its stats or anything. I think people for some reason don't like Flacco, so they use whatever they can to justify that he's not a good quarterback. Which is sad, because I think if he had the right coaching i.e. NOT CAM CAMERON, he could be even better than he was last year, and be the kind of quarterback that could lead us to multiple Superbowl titles.

[flynismo]

[quote name='shootyoup' timestamp='1326581476' post='947056']

My writing in that post is sort of convoluted. I meant to say that when we lose these tough games, none of the blame goes to the QB, there is always an excuse; Cam is either too conservative one week or alternatively too pass happy the next, the opposing defense is always amazing so we are expected to score 16 points, we lack any play makers because Boldin is an overrated, slow, stone-handed scrub, and the line is not always perfect. It is just that, aside from vs Pitt this year and a few rare instances, I have not seen Flacco just go above and beyond and put a team on his back. We always seem to come up short and the blame is always facilitated. Many fans (majority of posters on this thread) like to overanalyze a situation and try to put every single one of Flacco's performance in extreme context to make up for him. For example, I made a point in a another thread that against us, Alex Smith was sacked 9 times, escaped pressure a lot, had no run game, and played mediocre/below average. That performance has us saying he was exposed as a game manager. Many people refuse to take a similar stance on Flacco when he plays even worse (vs. NYJ) and claim it was enough to win.

Lastly I understand that romo, Brees, Manning, Rodgers all have better weapons. But Flacco has not approached them in terms of stats. We can always speculate that on GB he would have 45 touchdowns, but that is not how things work. There is not always a linear relationship between weapons and eprformance (in a similar way many NBA players play well in 10 minutes a game, but do not double output when they are given more responsibility and 20 minutes) and Flacco has not produced on the same level. By putting up huge numbers, a QB is shouldering a large load of an offense. Guys like Romo and Rivers have been forced to do this, and Flacco, throughout his career, has not. I guess my point is he may never be capable, and we are being extremely delusional by coming up with too many excuses for him. His performance in the regular season + our defense and running is great in the regular season, but in terms of winning a SB, that has not happened and it's ridiculous to say that he for sure will given his performances.
[/quote]

the only thing ridiculous is that you acknowledge that those QB have better weapons around them, and you still hold Flacco to their standards.

We're not the deluded ones, sorry.

[Bltravens]

Cam isnt putting Joe in very favourable positions today except for inside the red zone. Which is nice, but what the HELL is Cameron's infatuation with 2 man routes and both are 9 routes?

[flynismo]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1326618930' post='948214']
Discredit Eric berry nah. I just said why would a Qb be scared of a rookie playing in his first NFL playoff game that has 4 picks.

Cam is a beast. Not many better than him in this league including Flacco. lol this should start it up.[/quote]

we'll save the Cam is better debate for another time, since it has nothing to do with anything (deflection is a common tactic it seems when it comes to talking about Flacco).

Point is, you cant dismiss how good Berry was just because of his rookie status, then try to claim Cam Newton is better than Flacco.

[funky141]

Flacco better do something the second half or he will be killed Monday

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1326656580' post='949798']
Flacco better do something the second half or he will be killed Monday
[/quote]

That will happen either way, and it's not his fault no one can catch.

[flynismo]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1326656580' post='949798']Flacco better do something the second half or he will be killed Monday[/quote]

Flacco could throw another 3 TDs and people are still gonna kill him

[shootyoup]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1326656030' post='949695']
the only thing ridiculous is that you acknowledge that those QB have better weapons around them, and you still hold Flacco to their standards.

We're not the deluded ones, sorry.
[/quote]
I'm not holding him to their standards. Those guys have doubled his TD production and many average 300 yards a game when Joe has done that three times this season.
It's not like their stats are only marginally better and Flacco's weapons are marginally worse. I think it's fairly ludicrous to say that if say, you replace Torrey Smith with Mike Wallace and juice up our defense any more Flacco's numbers will just jump to rival those of Romo or Rivers or E. Manning. Still, Flacco's weapons are not amazing but they are certainly still solid. He has two quick tight ends, a deep threat in Smith, a dual threat RB, an above average first option in Boldin, and a solid O-line.

[Bltravens]

Cameron better do SOMETHING to slow the pass rush. The Texans are stacking the box 1st down, and unleashing the pass rush on 2nd and 3rd down. (profanity) clean it up Cameron.

[latenighthero]

I think it's Tyrod Time

[Bltravens]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1326658017' post='950097']
I think it's Tyrod Time
[/quote]
We can't do that. This is one of those instances that Flacco needs to perform in, it greatly affects his future with this team like it or not for alot of pro Flacco people. We lose this game with Flacco's current stat line and the FO is going to low ball the crap out of him contract extension wise.

[latenighthero]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1326658215' post='950158']
We can't do that. This is one of those instances that Flacco needs to perform in, it greatly affects his future with this team like it or not for alot of pro Flacco people. We lose this game with Flacco's current stat line and the FO is going to low ball the crap out of him contract extension wise.
[/quote]
I agree, because if we lose this game there will be serious questions about Flacco not being able to close out leads. This is eerily reminiscent of last year when we had the 14 point lead on the steelers and they managed to comeback and win it.