What Kind Of Offense Should The Ravens Use?

[Dudeman]

I built this poll based on the idea that if we were to makes changes on offense in the off-season where would you start?

Personally, when I think about it I am not totally sure. Obviously making whole-sale changes during the bye-week of the play-offs is probably a terrible time to do so. But I digress.

I have been reading a lot of opinions about the Ravens O expressed in so many different ways. What is true, and what is false? What is fact or what is fiction? What is prophetic, and what is heresy? (Which rhetorically makes me wonder, how much is an opinion really worth?) But my real question is, does anyone else really know what they want the Ravens offense to be? Does Cam Cameron? If you do know what would you use? Why would you use it? How would our personnel be better fit to use this scheme? After asking yourself this If you're like me you really don't know, and if you're like me what you really want is to have it all, you want this [b]Mythical, juggernaut, unstoppable, immortal, bloodthirsty, beast that[/b]......[size=2]doesn't exist.[/size]

So anyways (ahem), the ground work to building an offense is deciding what kind of offensive system you want to use. However, to be fair most every NFL team uses a hybrid of these types of offensive systems. Teams are versatile, multiple, and employ formations from these types of offenses in circumstantial situations.

[BaltimoreBean]

I want the offense from the 1st Pittsburgh game. I personally love our offense ...when it works. It just seems that most of the time the play calls are predictable. It just needs to be mixed up a little bit better. That's why I was really excited at the thought of a possible Norv Turner hiring. He would just run this same offense ...but better. I also think the receivers being newer this year has affected it a lot as far as timing.

[Dudeman]

[quote name='BaltimoreBean' timestamp='1325650510' post='934260']
I want the offense from the 1st Pittsburgh game. I personally love our offense ...when it works. It just seems that most of the time the play calls are predictable. It just needs to be mixed up a little bit better. That's why I was really excited at the thought of a possible Norv Turner hiring. He would just run this same offense ...but better. I also think the receivers being newer this year has affected it a lot as far as timing.
[/quote]

Agreed. Couldn't have said it better. But I have been thinking that I don't know if predictable is the right word. A lot of the games I watch the play-calls are very predictable from offenses, defenses, special teams all around the NFL. Saying a team is predictable in it's calling could be a blanket term for any team. I read earlier that the Ravens have had an "up, and down season." Well who on earth didn't??

[BaltimoreBean]

[quote name='Dudeman' timestamp='1325650892' post='934263']


Agreed. Couldn't have said it better. But I have been thinking that I don't know if predictable is the right word. A lot of the games I watch the play-calls are very predictable from offenses, defenses, special teams all around the NFL. Saying a team is predictable in it's calling could be a blanket term for any team. I read earlier that the Ravens have had an "up, and down season." Well who on earth didn't??
[/quote]

I say predictable referring to the run, run, pass, punt drives. When Cam mixes it up, it works. Throw on first down more... and if you do, it doesn't have to be a go route to Torrey.

[Ravenslifer]

I would really prefer a West Coast style offense. It makes more sense to me since it emphasizes time of possession. We have the receivers to run it properly, because while all of them may not be tall and/or fast, all of them have shown the ability in either college or the professional game to gain yards after the catch. Installing it would mean that the offensive line would have to block for a shorter amount of time, so a lot of the inconsistency would be nullified by the fact that the passes have already been completed. Emphasizing time of possession would keep the defense fresh for the whole game and in theory the West Coast offense should eliminate a lot of our 3 and outs.

I'm really just not a fan of Air Coryell, because it's predicated on having A + B + C + D and all [b]have[/b] to be working in order to succeed. The offensive line HAS to block for longer periods of time to set up both the power running game and the medium to deep routes that need time to develop. There has to be a running game that is effective, because a lot of Air Coryell plays are predicated on the play-action pass. Without the run, you can't have play action. When people shut down the Chargers' run game, Philip Rivers failed this season. When people shut down the Ravens' run game (or Cam did it himself), the Ravens failed this season. I also wouldn't mind running the spread offense since it's something Flacco is very comfortable with, having had great success with it at Delaware. Ultimately, it's about what our players and our quarterback feel comfortable doing. Flacco seems to thrive in play-action, so any system that could emphasize it would be beneficial, I believe. Air Coryell should emphasize play action, but Cam obviously didn't get the memo on that one judging by games like Jacksonville and San Diego. I don't really care much for Air Coryell since it's riskier passing game leads to more turnovers, and it really does work best with big wide receivers, because deep balls by their nature are often overthrown and a bigger wide receiver has a better chance of making a play on an overthrown ball. I just don't see the personnel to run the system effectively here.

[Crabcakes&Football]

What we have now. Just managed better.

[bdravens]

Just a question for you all. I have a friend who is a die hard Ravens fan like me, and he brought up whether Joe is smart enough to be able to handle an entirely new offense if Cam left. It's a pretty open question, but I figure that Joe can run a no huddle with ease (or when he's free of Cam's Hitler style of calling plays). So I think he would be capable. Basically, I don't think it matters what offense we run as long as it's consistent and unpredictable. Like Joe, Cam has his good and bad days. I just wish after four years, the inconsistency would be eliminated by now.

[K-Dog]

depends on the opposing teams defenses weaknesses.

[Alexir]

Wing T baby! Run that ball and utilize the mismatches a tight end causes!

Also, I'm surprised people want West Coast Offense for Flacco when he seems to be more accurate when hes chucking it down field than he is with short passes and slants. Guys like Chad Pennington or Colt McCoy would be good for that but guys with those big strong arms don't waste their times on taking small bits at a time when they can take chunks.

[Militant X 1]

the pro/spread offense

~Mili

[JO_75]

West Coast for me. Don't Jim Zorn run a West Coast Offense, yet we got rid of him when Joe improved as a QB when Zorn was here. Whether it's Zorn or someone else, whoever runs a WC Offense is fine with me.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325652076' post='934276']
I would really prefer a West Coast style offense. It makes more sense to me since it emphasizes time of possession. We have the receivers to run it properly, because while all of them may not be tall and/or fast, all of them have shown the ability in either college or the professional game to gain yards after the catch. Installing it would mean that the offensive line would have to block for a shorter amount of time, so a lot of the inconsistency would be nullified by the fact that the passes have already been completed. Emphasizing time of possession would keep the defense fresh for the whole game and in theory the West Coast offense should eliminate a lot of our 3 and outs.

I'm really just not a fan of Air Coryell, because it's predicated on having A + B + C + D and all [b]have[/b] to be working in order to succeed. The offensive line HAS to block for longer periods of time to set up both the power running game and the medium to deep routes that need time to develop. There has to be a running game that is effective, because a lot of Air Coryell plays are predicated on the play-action pass. Without the run, you can't have play action. When people shut down the Chargers' run game, Philip Rivers failed this season. When people shut down the Ravens' run game (or Cam did it himself), the Ravens failed this season. I also wouldn't mind running the spread offense since it's something Flacco is very comfortable with, having had great success with it at Delaware. Ultimately, it's about what our players and our quarterback feel comfortable doing. Flacco seems to thrive in play-action, so any system that could emphasize it would be beneficial, I believe. Air Coryell should emphasize play action, but Cam obviously didn't get the memo on that one judging by games like Jacksonville and San Diego. I don't really care much for Air Coryell since it's riskier passing game leads to more turnovers, and it really does work best with big wide receivers, because deep balls by their nature are often overthrown and a bigger wide receiver has a better chance of making a play on an overthrown ball. I just don't see the personnel to run the system effectively here.
[/quote]
Very well said. Just to add my 2cents, no matter what system we use it starts with the offensive personnel. I honestly dont think our receivers have the route running ability yet and our qb does not have the accuracy or quickness needed to run any offense well. Note I'm not saying Joe is a bad qb or that our receivers are bad cause that is clearly wrong. However the main areas where we are struggling are the two necessary to run any offense. The first is ability of the receivers to get separation. The receiving core we have now doesn't crisp routes necessary to get away from coverage and to move the chains in a WC style offense or in our offense on third down. Also Flacco, I havent seen Flacco has struggled with his accuracy at times and I can't vouch for how quick his release is but that and his decision making ability would need to be on an instantaneous level for the WC offense to employed correctly. The other thing we are missing is hands. Our receivers have dropped too many passes this year. They need strong hands in order to deal with the quick catches necessary of the WC offense. Boldin is showing signs of age, evans has drops, smith has drops. I think our offense was run on more consistent level last year than it was this year because we had mason's crisp routes to move the chains. It may not have been as explosive, but I definitely feel that it was cleaner last year. So before we change systems perhaps we should fix this.

That being said a time of possession offense where we focus on moving the chains is best to play to our team's strength its defense. The question is how do we move the chains and extend time of possession? Do we run a smash mouth offense and focus on using running the ball to open the pass or a WC styled offense using slants, quick routes to move the chains an open running lanes? Also no matter the system we use the balance of run to pass will be a factor as well as unpredictability. Not only well this be a factor but the types of passes and runs we use will factor into the unpredictability of the offense. I personally think we should run a Wing T offense and possibly adopt a run blocking style similar to that of the Texans. I think this system will open up the deep ball for Flacco while also giving us the option to move the chains by run or pass without having to heavily rely on either extreme as we would using the smash mouth and WC system. I also believe we have the personnel to run it.

[Ngata92NT]

The pieces are there to form an elite offense, Flacco's possess super-elite arm strength and when he has sufficient opportunity to get into a rhythm he makes great reads and puts the ball on target. On the flipside Flacco's release can't compare to a brady, brees, or manning, has a tendency to misfire on quick reads and short passes. The toolset just isn't there to run a west-coast offense a la brady. However, Flacco can be phenomenal in the spread offense, where the reactions don't need to be as fast, the reads tend to be clearer, and the drops are shorter. Flacco's footwork is solid but he's just not quick enough to consistently drop back from under center and throw quick, accurate passes.

Obviously the running game can't be neglected, Ray Rice is the flesh and bone of the offense and needs to get the touches. Vonta Leach is one the best players on the team and needs to be utlized.

I vote for a blend of run-heavy offense with play-action and frequent use of a spread offense with Dickson, Pitta, Torrey, Boldin, and Rice all on the field, Joe in Shotgun. Ray Rice can be phenomenal running of the spread, the spread pulls plenty of defenders out of the box and opens up running lanes. Let Joe see the whole field, make the pre-snap adjustments, and sling the ball around. It's where he's at his best; think about the Pitt and Arizona games this year.

[Sir Spooky]

I personally don't mind the Coryell system; I just wanna see more balance between run and pass and along with maybe some play-action on 1st down so we won't be running Marty ball when we have a lead and to break up the predictability. Along with the Coryell as the primary offensive system, I would like the see some things from other offensive systems like the WCO or the Spread. I think the Colts run a Coryell but sometimes it looks like the WCO with how fast Manning gets the ball out. Anyway, Coryell/Smash Mouth, with some Spread, WCO and some Wildcat with Tyrod [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/268213.gif[/img] , that's what I would like us to utilize.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1325655350' post='934325']
Very well said. Just to add my 2cents, no matter what system we use it starts with the offensive personnel. I honestly dont think our receivers have the route running ability yet and our qb does not have the accuracy or quickness needed to run any offense well. Note I'm not saying Joe is a bad qb or that our receivers are bad cause that is clearly wrong. However the main areas where we are struggling are the two necessary to run any offense. The first is ability of the receivers to get separation. The receiving core we have now doesn't crisp routes necessary to get away from coverage and to move the chains in a WC style offense or in our offense on third down. Also Flacco, I havent seen Flacco has struggled with his accuracy at times and I can't vouch for how quick his release is but that and his decision making ability would need to be on an instantaneous level for the WC offense to employed correctly. The other thing we are missing is hands. Our receivers have dropped too many passes this year. They need strong hands in order to deal with the quick catches necessary of the WC offense. Boldin is showing signs of age, evans has drops, smith has drops. I think our offense was run on more consistent level last year than it was this year because we had mason's crisp routes to move the chains. It may not have been as explosive, but I definitely feel that it was cleaner last year. So before we change systems perhaps we should fix this.

That being said a time of possession offense where we focus on moving the chains is best to play to our team's strength its defense. The question is how do we move the chains and extend time of possession? Do we run a smash mouth offense and focus on using running the ball to open the pass or a WC styled offense using slants, quick routes to move the chains an open running lanes? Also no matter the system we use the balance of run to pass will be a factor as well as unpredictability. Not only well this be a factor but the types of passes and runs we use will factor into the unpredictability of the offense. I personally think we should run a Wing T offense and possibly adopt a run blocking style similar to that of the Texans. I think this system will open up the deep ball for Flacco while also giving us the option to move the chains by run or pass without having to heavily rely on either extreme as we would using the smash mouth and WC system. I also believe we have the personnel to run it.
[/quote]

You don't think we have the personnel to run any offense? You'd think we were the Jags or something the way people criticize our offense. The running game has been dominant at times this year, I'd make the argument that only the Texans run the ball better and more efficiently than us. The passing game has been inconsistent, but the same could be said about the whole team in those losses (Tennesse, Jax, Seattle, San Diego). The passing stats would be up if we didn't have dominant defense to keep the game close. Smart football dictates running the ball and playing conservative on offense when the defense is performing well. Flacco's release isn't anything to write home about, but neither is Roethlisbergers, Rivers, or Newtons. Flacco can make quick reads out of shotgun but struggles under center.

[Dudeman]

Just watched this, gotta love the voice of the Ravens! A lot of good points made about our offense here.

[url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-around-the-league/09000d5d825b11da/Ravens-ready-for-anyone?module=HP11_content_stream"]http://www.nfl.com/v..._content_stream[/url]

Watching this made me think. In hindsight was not over using Ray Rice such a bad thing in those 4 losses? If RR is fresh this time of year that is a scary, scary thing.

I just keep thinking with the way people dissect our offense, and have condescending things to say we are going to see an explosion at some point on offense. It happened this past off-season when everyone said Flacco wasn't good enough to beat the Steelers and then BAM, we hit them in the mouth when they came to Balto.

Sandusky is right of course too, the Ravens and their fans have great chemistry in the home games. Man I hope we are loud as loud can be come the Divisional play-off round.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1325656076' post='934337']

You don't think we have the personnel to run any offense? You'd think we were the Jags or something the way people criticize our offense. The running game has been dominant at times this year, I'd make the argument that only the Texans run the ball better and more efficiently than us. The passing game has been inconsistent, but the same could be said about the whole team in those losses (Tennesse, Jax, Seattle, San Diego). The passing stats would be up if we didn't have dominant defense to keep the game close. Smart football dictates running the ball and playing conservative on offense when the defense is performing well. Flacco's release isn't anything to write home about, but neither is Roethlisbergers, Rivers, or Newtons. Flacco can make quick reads out of shotgun but struggles under center.
[/quote]
Let me clarify that statement a bit. I made that statement cause people are blaming the system, Air Coryell, for the problem with the offense and while I dislike this system, there have been many games where the system was ran and executed properly but the receivers couldnt finish the play. That statement was made to illustrate the point that a change in offensive system isn't going to instantly solve our problems if our personnel carry these problems into the new system. The team will never live up to the fan's expectation until these fundamental problems with the personnel are fixed and that should be the priority over changing the system.

I agree that the running game has been very good this year but for how good its been you'd the pass should be wide open for us and there are very few games this whole year where we have been dominant throwing the football even when we were gouging oppn's with the run and thats goes back to again the fundamental problems of the personnel this year (dropped balls are very uncharacteristic of boldin).

I'm not saying I want us to be dominant throwing the football because that is the last thing I want, but when we are averaging 4 yds a carry with rice and they are brining in extra guys to stop the run, I EXPECT us to be able to abuse this passing the ball if the offense is competent, let alone as good as we claim it to be. I mean the 49ers seem to be able to execute this well with much less talent on offense. Theres no reason why we shouldnt be able to as well.

Also what you describe as smart football, I and many fans on this board would call conservative football. That is fine when you have 2 or more score lead and youre trying to end the game. However with the style of play the league is trending towards ie a passing league furthermore an elite passing offense league, you can't be conservative. That's what allows teams to get back in the game against us. The bengals almost beat us twice because we tried to kill the clock too early with safe "smart" conservative playcalling. You have to continue to step on the oppn's throat until you're sure that you can either a. kill the clock before they can comeback, b. have a large enough lead that they cannot come back within the time frame should you call conservatively. Again I'm not saying there isn't a time or place for what you are describing but the window for that definitely is much smaller that it used to be.

If Flacco's release is average than he should do okay in a WC offense assuming the receivers fixed the fundamental problems pointed before. I was just wondering if Flacco had another potential problem besides his accuracy that would be a roadblock in instituting a system like that.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Dudeman' timestamp='1325657630' post='934358']
Just watched this, gotta love the voice of the Ravens! A lot of good points made about our offense here.

[url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-around-the-league/09000d5d825b11da/Ravens-ready-for-anyone?module=HP11_content_stream"]http://www.nfl.com/v..._content_stream[/url]

Watching this made me think. In hindsight was not over using Ray Rice such a bad thing in those 4 losses? If RR is fresh this time of year that is a scary, scary thing.

I just keep thinking with the way people dissect our offense, and have condescending things to say we are going to see an explosion at some point on offense. It happened this past off-season when everyone said Flacco wasn't good enough to beat the Steelers and then BAM, we hit them in the mouth when they came to Balto.

Sandusky is right of course too, the Ravens and their fans have great chemistry in the home games. Man I hope we are loud as loud can be come the Divisional play-off round.
[/quote]

I LOVED IT!!

maaan..that put a smile on my face and nearly brought tears to my eyes when Gerry said that the Ravens have the bye-week and are sitting at home and ready to play "ANYBODY" that comes to M&T Bank Stadium. what a rush!

~Mili

[ravenwildman]

I think we need to be able to morph into any type of offense we can conceivably use based on our players strengths to win. Within reason, versatility is always the best answer here. If you limit yourself to a single style, then you limit your options.

GO RAVENS!

[Dudeman]

[quote name='ravenwildman' timestamp='1325658365' post='934368']
I think we need to be able to morph into any type of offense we can conceivably use based on our players strengths to win. Within reason, versatility is always the best answer here. If you limit yourself to a single style, then you limit your options.

GO RAVENS!
[/quote]

A jack of all trades is a master of none. Look where the Ravens rank on offense. Not the best and not the worst at anything really. But critical things are good, like wins. No debating that stat.

[gabefergy]

I voted for the West Coast, but there is a specific mold I have in mind. I really like the Houston Texans Offense that Gary Kubiak installed. Its uses the Zone Blocking scheme which we have had a ton of success with this year, but they still take a lot of shots downfield in the passing game and also use a ton of 2 TE sets. It would fit our personnel very well. Maybe we could look at Greg Knapp (currently QBs coach in Houston) as a candidate OC. He has a lot of coaching experience and has been OC for several teams including SF (01-03), Atl (04-06), Oak (07-08), Sea (09).

[Yatagarasu]

It's not first home playoff games.

We hosted the Colts back in 2006, so it should be 2nd.

[HaX]

i'm gonna go with
a good one

[Yatagarasu]

PISTOL OFFENSE

Would be funny because nobody is actually prepared for pistol offense from Baltimore.

It plays to our strength with a spread offense for Joe Flacco and Runningback Ray Rice behind him.

[codizzle]

Other:

"I run six plays. Split veer. Works like novacaine."

Awwww yea

[Gordo52]

Run N Gun

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='bdravens' timestamp='1325654188' post='934308']
Just a question for you all. I have a friend who is a die hard Ravens fan like me, and he brought up [b]whether Joe is smart enough [/b]to be able to handle an entirely new offense if Cam left. It's a pretty open question, but I figure that Joe can run a no huddle with ease (or when he's free of Cam's Hitler style of calling plays). So I think he would be capable. Basically, I don't think it matters what offense we run as long as it's consistent and unpredictable. Like Joe, Cam has his good and bad days. I just wish after four years, the inconsistency would be eliminated by now.
[/quote]

I really don't get this one at all. There are some fools that keep bringing this up. First, he did about average for a quarterback on the Wonderlic (a 27 I think). Peyton Manning got a 28. Besides I think Marino got like a 16 or something like that, and I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure he did okay in this league (sarcasm). His grades at Delaware and Pitt must have been fine. Do people realize that when they question this, they question the front office's ability to evaluate a simple thing like the intelligence of the people they're talking to?

[1/28/01]

A really stupendous one!!

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Dudeman' timestamp='1325657630' post='934358']
Just watched this, gotta love the voice of the Ravens! A lot of good points made about our offense here.

[url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-around-the-league/09000d5d825b11da/Ravens-ready-for-anyone?module=HP11_content_stream"]http://www.nfl.com/v..._content_stream[/url]

Watching this made me think. In hindsight was not over using Ray Rice such a bad thing in those 4 losses? If RR is fresh this time of year that is a scary, scary thing.

I just keep thinking with the way people dissect our offense, and have condescending things to say we are going to see an explosion at some point on offense. It happened this past off-season when everyone said Flacco wasn't good enough to beat the Steelers and then BAM, we hit them in the mouth when they came to Balto.

Sandusky is right of course too, the Ravens and their fans have great chemistry in the home games. Man I hope we are loud as loud can be come the Divisional play-off round.
[/quote]

Best part about that segment for me is it sounds like Anquan is much healthier. Hopefully he's as close to 100 percent as he can be two weeks from now.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325654453' post='934314']
Wing T baby! Run that ball and utilize the mismatches a tight end causes!

Also, I'm surprised people want West Coast Offense for Flacco when[b] he seems to be more accurate when hes chucking it down field than he is with short passes and slants[/b]. Guys like Chad Pennington or Colt McCoy would be good for that but guys with those big strong arms don't waste their times on taking small bits at a time when they can take chunks.
[/quote]

Not according to his splits. This season, he's completing 75 percent of his passes thrown behind the line of scrimmage, 64 percent of passes thrown 1-10 yards, 49 percent of passes thrown 11-20 yards, 25 percent of passes thrown 21-30 yards, 12.5 percent of passes thrown 31-40 yards, and 33 percent of passes thrown 40+ yards.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/11252/joe-flacco