Time To Smallow Some Pride And Take Reed And Lewis Out

[display name]

Hit -40! Oh yeah! But I'm still right!

[1/28/01]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1325856013' post='936340']
Hit -40! Oh yeah! But I'm still right!
[/quote]
When you apologize, apologize for being wrong, not for being honest!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1325856013' post='936340']
Hit -40! Oh yeah! But I'm still right!
[/quote]

Right about what? Benching the two most influential players on the team because neither has made the kind of impact we've come to expect from in recent weeks(even if it would just be on passing downs in Ray's case) would be foolishness. There aren't better options riding the pine. Change just for the sake of the change rarely works.

[chesapeakeaviator]

Playoff football isn't regular season football. Ask the vaunted Peyton Manning. And then tell me who you would rather have in the game than Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. When Tebow's white pants are stained with a golden ring in the crotch because this is the PLAYOFFS and you have guys like Ray and Ed playing insane, lights-out football because they know how to play here and want that ring more than anything, you'll quickly see why these are the men you want on the field.

There's a reason that announcers seem to drone on for hours about "having been here before." Ex-players especially. There's something to it.

I would take Ray Lewis at age 50 over almost anyone else in the playoffs.

Sometimes I have to wonder. I realize we all see it differently and I respect that, but man, how can you be a Baltimore Ravens fan, have followed this season and the whole "let's get Ed a ring because this is his last chance" mantra of the season, watched us go 6-0 in the TOUGHEST DIVISION IN FOOTBALL (even the cellar dweller was consistently competitive in games), go 12-4, earn a bye, be talked about as a favorite for the Super Bowl by numerous analysts who actually KNOW something about the game, and then want to change a friggin thing?!?! I just don't get it!

Win or lose, this ship was built on the backs of Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, and yes, we all can see that they're in their twilight, but my god... I can only imagine the absolute bewilderment of fans of other teams who read this article by a guy who supposedly follows OUR team.

As for the facts--I would consider the points only if I didn't see other teams in the NFL consistently game planning around Ray and Ed every single play. Until I see teams going right after them because it's a competitive disadvantage for us, forget it. They're still beasts and extraordinarily effective.

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

[quote name='Crabcakes&Football' timestamp='1325628529' post='933833']
Just watch. Ray and Ed are both gonna make clutch game sealing plays in the playoffs.
[/quote]
Lol, good call



[quote name='chesapeakeaviator' timestamp='1325870262' post='936445']
Sometimes I have to wonder. I realize we all see it differently and I respect that, but man, how can you be a Baltimore Ravens fan, have followed this season and the whole "let's get Ed a ring because this is his last chance" mantra of the season, watched us go 6-0 in the TOUGHEST DIVISION IN FOOTBALL (even the cellar dweller was consistently competitive in games), go 12-4, earn a bye, be talked about as a favorite for the Super Bowl by numerous analysts who actually KNOW something about the game, and then want to change a friggin thing?!?! I just don't get it!
[/quote]

^^^Sums up my argument to a T

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='Crabcakes&Football' timestamp='1325628529' post='933833']
Just watch. Ray and Ed are both gonna make clutch game sealing plays in the playoffs.
[/quote]


I truly believe this and have been saying it. When pushed superstars will find a way to prove the naysayers wrong!

[The Raven]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1325856013' post='936340']
Hit -40! Oh yeah! But I'm still right!
[/quote]

Give it up. Only one person agrees with you, and he's the most criticized sports writer in Baltimore.

This whole idea is just redonculous.

[atlravensfan]

i will agree with you that something isnt right with ed's tackling and he is still a nightmare in coverage. but ray is playing at a high level. He is one of the better MLBs in coverage in the NFL and could start for (as in he doesn't do it anymore) any team. I think the problem is with the guys starting next to him. BA is not good against the run but is good against the pass and he should come in NEXT to Lewis on 3rd downs.

[The Raven]

Okay, so if Ray should be taken out, why is he leading the team in tackles, after missing 4 games? He has 95, 72 solo. Second place? McClain with 81, 47 solo. Hmm........

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325895236' post='936869']
Okay, so if Ray should be taken out, why is he leading the team in tackles, after missing 4 games? He has 95, 72 solo. Second place? McClain with 81, 47 solo. Hmm........
[/quote]

I agree with you Ray has a six sense for the ball. Guys like that just seem to be around it which seperates him from alot of guys. Ed still has coverage ability that defies logic and its a passing league. So take out your best pass defender in a game against maybe pittsburgh(wallace and brown) houstan with those TEs and Johnson and Foster or The Broncos against a QB that throws ints. I dont get that one

[AsianRice]

-42, can this thread hit 100 again?

[display name]

Have you been watching the games? Have you seen Ray Lewis move his body to try to cover and then seen someone blow right past him? What about someone driving Ed Reed foreward as he tries to make a tackle? Hate me all yo want to, but it's true. We need to limit their play.

[The Raven]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1325902278' post='936925']
Have you been watching the games? Have you seen Ray Lewis move his body to try to cover and then seen someone blow right past him? What about someone driving Ed Reed foreward as he tries to make a tackle? Hate me all yo want to, but it's true. We need to limit their play.
[/quote]

Read the friggin stats. You can't deny stats! Are you sane?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325903231' post='936931']


Read the friggin stats. You can't deny stats! Are you sane?
[/quote]
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.

[display name]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325903231' post='936931']

Read the friggin stats. You can't deny stats! Are you sane?
[/quote]
For once I actually agree with 1/28/01. The stats are from run support, where he still excells. But they don't say everything. From just looking at his 95 tackles after missing four games, you would not know that he struggled and looked confused in pass coverage. You wouldn't know that the defense played better with him as a coach rather than player. Ray Lewis may be one of the best NFL players and people I know of, but you cannot deny the possibility that he and Reed are hurting the team for then helping when they are in. This isn't 2003 anymore.

[The Raven]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325903524' post='936935']
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.
[/quote]

I like that. Thats a good way to put it.

[The Raven]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1325904068' post='936940']
For once I actually agree with 1/28/01. The stats are from run support, where he still excells. But they don't say everything. From just looking at his 95 tackles after missing four games, you would not know that he struggled and looked [s]confused[/s] in pass coverage.[s] You wouldn't know that the defense played better with him as a coach rather than player[/s]. [s]Ray Lewis may be one of the best NFL players and people I know of, but you cannot deny the possibility that he and Reed are hurting the team for then helping when they are in. This isn't 2003 anymore.[/s]
[/quote]

Fixed.

[K-Dog]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1325902278' post='936925']
We need to limit their play.
[/quote]

Just curious. Who on our current roster is good enough to replace them that it would be a noticeable improvement?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1325905188' post='936949']
Just curious. Who on our current roster is good enough to replace them that it would be a noticeable improvement?
[/quote]

There isn't any one. Ray and Ed in particular have had their struggles this season. But they're still better than most of the players at their position and certainly better than any of their teammates. [i]Limiting[/i] their play really makes little sense at this point in the campaign.

[Blex64]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1325904068' post='936940']
For once I actually agree with 1/28/01. The stats are from run support, where he still excells. But they don't say everything. From just looking at his 95 tackles after missing four games, you would not know that he struggled and looked confused in pass coverage. You wouldn't know that the defense played better with him as a coach rather than player. Ray Lewis may be one of the best NFL players and people I know of, but you cannot deny the possibility that he and Reed are hurting the team for then helping when they are in. This isn't 2003 anymore.
[/quote]

He has not struggled in pass coverage. He's playing no worse then (and better then some) of the best ILBs in the league in that regard. His run stopping abilities are as stout as ever, certainly better then Ellerbee's or Ayanbadejo's.

Reed was targeted less this year then last year. And he played 6 more games. He was avoided like the plague, and I think was thrown at somewhere between 2-3 times a game. That's an impact you cannot measure.

You need to learn the difference between causation and correlation and stop listening to Mike Preston, whose too stupid to both walk and talk at the same time.

[Bosanac]

smallow?

[K-Dog]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1325907212' post='936973']


There isn't any one. Ray and Ed in particular have had their struggles this season. But they're still better than most of the players at their position and certainly better than any of their teammates. [i]Limiting[/i] their play really makes little sense at this point in the campaign.
[/quote]

Trust me. I completely realize that. I am waiting for Mr. Big Idea to answer the question.

and waiting ....

and waiting...

[The Raven]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1325909137' post='936984']
Trust me. I completely realize that. I am waiting for Mr. Big Idea to answer the question.

and waiting ....

and waiting...
[/quote]

Well, he claimed our defense performed better against the pass without Ray, and I know stats dont tell everything, but they really proved his theory wrong.

[52Kia Kaha92]

first and second down ray stays in, third down id yank him, and as bad as reed's tackling and agressivness is he is still a million times better than anyone else we can send out there...he is fine

[BmoreRavens732]

Just go back and read my comments from a page or two ago cuz it seems they were over looked but reed is still the same ball hawk he just cant catch this year for whatever reason and the stats prove everything for ray

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[b][u]2011 Season Coverage Stats[/u][/b]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]23/33, 69.7%, 273 Yards, 131 YAC, 0 TDs, 1 INT, 7 PDs, 82.0 QB Rating. He was given a +3.5 in Pass Coverage for the season in 379 Pass Coverage snaps[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]___________________________________________________________________________________________________________[/font][/color]
[u][b]Tight Ends Receiving[/b][/u]
[b]Season Total[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]: 62 catches/665 Yards/3 TDs[/font][/color]
[b]WITH Ray[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] (12 games): 46 catches/481 Yards/1 TD (3.83 catches per game/40.1 yards per game/10.5 yards per catch)[/font][/color]
[b]WITHOUT Ray[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] (4 games): 16 catches/184 Yards/2 TDs (4 catches per game/46 yards per game/11.5 yards per catch)[/font][/color]

[u][b]Running Backs Receiving [/b][/u]
[b]Season Total:[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] 52 Catches/455 Yards/0 TDs[/font][/color]
[b]WITH Ray[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] (12 Games): 35 catches/273 Yards/0 TD (2.92 catches per game/22.75 yards per game)[/font][/color]
[b]WITHOUT Ray[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] (4 Games): 17 catches/182 Yards/0 TD (4.25 catches per game/45.5 yards per game)[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color]

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1325904068' post='936940']
For once I actually agree with 1/28/01. [b]The stats are from run support, where he still excells. [/b]But they don't say everything. From just looking at his 95 tackles after missing four games, you would not know that he struggled and looked confused in pass coverage. You wouldn't know that the defense played better with him as a coach rather than player. Ray Lewis may be one of the best NFL players and people I know of, but you cannot deny the possibility that he and Reed are hurting the team for then helping when they are in. This isn't 2003 anymore.
[/quote]

[b][u]2011 Season Coverage Stats[/u][/b]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]23/33, 69.7%, 273 Yards, 131 YAC, 0 TDs, 1 INT, 7 PDs, 82.0 QB Rating. He was given a +3.5 in Pass Coverage for the season in 379 Pass Coverage snaps[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]___________________________________________________________________________________________________________[/font][/color]
[u][b]Tight Ends Receiving[/b][/u]
[b]Season Total[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]: 62 catches/665 Yards/3 TDs[/font][/color]
[b]WITH Ray[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] (12 games): 46 catches/481 Yards/1 TD (3.83 catches per game/40.1 yards per game/10.5 yards per catch)[/font][/color]
[b]WITHOUT Ray[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] (4 games): 16 catches/184 Yards/2 TDs (4 catches per game/46 yards per game/11.5 yards per catch)[/font][/color]

[u][b]Running Backs Receiving [/b][/u]
[b]Season Total:[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] 52 Catches/455 Yards/0 TDs[/font][/color]
[b]WITH Ray[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] (12 Games): 35 catches/273 Yards/0 TD (2.92 catches per game/22.75 yards per game)[/font][/color]
[b]WITHOUT Ray[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] (4 Games): 17 catches/182 Yards/0 TD (4.25 catches per game/45.5 yards per game)[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color]

[DMH_in_WA]

I hate Preston. Not that it matters. He's like a mini-Skip Bayless. I can't believe anyone is as stupid as his writing makes him out to be. He has got to be doing it just to be "controversial" and to drive views to his articles.

I look at the stats and I look at the plays when it matters. Here's all I need to know. Baltimore up 24-13. Bengals have the ball, moving in for touchdown and probably 2-pt conversion to bring the game to within a fieldgoal. Bengals on Balt 11 with around 3mins to go with AFC North, Bye and Homefield on the line:


[b]1st & 10 at BAL 11 (Shotgun) Dalton pass short left to Leonard to BLT 8 for 3 yards (Lewis).[/b]

[b]2nd & 7 at BAL 8 (Shotgun) Dalton sacked at BLT 9 for -1 yards (Suggs).[/b]

[b]3rd & 8 at BAL 9 (Shotgun) Dalton scrambles up the middle to BLT 5 for 4 yards (Lewis). [/b]


For me, this is a "next topic" discussion.

[display name]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1325905188' post='936949']
Just curious. Who on our current roster is good enough to replace them that it would be a noticeable improvement?
[/quote]
Maybe take Ray out and add an extra DB in passing situations. Giving Zibi a shot wouldn't hurt, hopefully. Hit -45! I broke Mr. GM's record! But I'm standing by what I said.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

Among all ILB in coverage this past season, here is where Ray ranked in advanced coverage stats:

Total Targets- 2nd fewest (33 total targets)
Receptions- 2nd fewest (23 receptions)
Yards- 6th fewest (273 Yards)
YAC-4th fewest (131 Yac)
TDs Allowed- 1st fewest (0 allowed)

Coverage Snaps per Target- 3rd lowest (1 target per 11.5 coverage snaps)
Yards per Coverage Snap- 5th Fewest (0.72 yards per coverage snap)
Coverage snaps per reception allowed- 4th (1 receptions every 16.5 coverage snaps)

If "that" is a liability I will take it all.