What Does "conservative" Mean To You?

[Militant X 1]

the word [i][b]"conservative" [/b][/i](concerning Cam's playcalling) has been used quite a bit with us here on the boards and even last week by Joe and Cam himself. what does the word [i][b]"conservative" [/b][/i](in reference to calling plays on the field) mean to you?

~Mili

[Jamal]

Cam Cameron - Another word for conservative. (its in the dictionary)

[arnie_uk]

i think its more predicatable than conservative... he doesnt mix it up well, we probably ran a run, on 1st down all the time except maybe three plays.. there was a time there we went run run pass for a good 10/15 mins.. Its not conservative as such, its our strength after all and it worked, we wore them down and broke big runs.. its juts, maybe do a playaction, or just drop back and do a screen/slant whatever and then run on second.. mix it up

To many times this year we are all run, pass on 3rd and long, or else were all pass, run n third and short... if he even does run

[dontbnvus]

I am always very quiet when it comes to Cam. Noone here can call me a hater or a suporter. I dont think that cam gets "conservative" The main thing i question about Cam is his creativity. I wish I had the overhead tape view of the games. Then I could make a much more informed judgement. I am not one to call out the receivers for lack of seperation or to just blame Cam or Joe. But I can say that I feel there is a lack of crativity with the routes on the play design level. Also I dont think he game plans to create the matchups that will help with our receivers in getting that all so often mentioned seperation. Now of course I can not say this with any certainty because like i said I dont have the game film that it would really take to make those claims. This is just my opinion based on what i see.

[hawkprey]

Throwing the ball only once in a 3-down set and the route is too short to reach the first down marker!

[grape drank]

When I say he's being conservative, I mean, he throws out the game plan and starts calling very "safe" but predictable plays following a run run pass punt pattern, and the pass is usually either incomplete or for very little gain. Rarely do you ever see us going for 10-15-20 yard passes unless its a Play action to Torrey Smith. Also he starts going "conservative" in the 3rd quarter no matter how small our lead, we need to put the knife to the opponents throat and keep on pushing until 60 minutes is done, if Cam could get that through his incredibly thick skull, we'd be a 30+ point offence week in and week out.

[dontbnvus]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1325548230' post='932416']
Throwing the ball only once in a 3-down set and the route is too short to reach the first down marker!
[/quote]

Good point. Or how about when we really need to have a good long drive and decide on 3rd and 4 to throw the ball for a incomplete 40 yard pass play? Instead of taking the higher completion percentage plays. That really gets me going. But then, you dont know if that is Cam or Joe. Honestly, I would say it was Joe.

Obviously that throw is not conservitive, but it just makes ya go hmmmmmmmmmm Especially when you really have to keep your D off the field for a while.

[ravensdfan]

Conservative...perhaps that is even the wrong word. It is predictable that becomes the issue.

My issue with Cam's playcalling:

My dog knows what play we're running just from personnel and situation. That's pretty bad.

[Gordo52]

No matter how much we're up run the ball on first & second while wining down the clock, also not trusting your QB to be able to throw

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1325547568' post='932402']Cam Cameron - Another word for conservative. (its in the dictionary)[/quote]

Yup. Cam Cameron is synonymous with conservative.

[JO_75]

This is what I posted in the game thread:

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1st & 10 12:00 Play 1[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]2nd & 7: 11:19 Play 2[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]3rd & 4: 10:34 Play 3[/font][/color]

[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]No urgency at all to score, all that time wasted, that is being conservative.[/color][/font]

[True]

Cam worked under Marty Schottenheimer so he's picked up the habits of "Marty ball" with run, run, and pass.

I think the Ravens tried to test their passing games against some bad teams (Jacksonville and Seattle) but it wasn't working and the pass/run ratio was lopsided. I believe John Harbaugh looked at it and said the passing game is still a work in process so let's run the team and feature Ray Rice.

Being a run first team has been the teams mentality under Harbaugh who said he likes to play Big Ten style football. His dad worked under Bo Schembechler and he built teams exactly like what the Ravens are - power running game with a stout defense. Kinda funny how the 49ers are the exact same way and Jim Harbaugh is there coach. It really runs in the family lol.

Now I do like the passing elements of the deep threat in Torrey Smith and the Diesel Package with the two TEs but this is the first year they've had a chance to play on the field and have played sparingly and Joe is still developing a repertoire with all of em.

Personally I'd like to mix it up a bit with and take what the defense gives you instead of running a particular set of plays that will stop working because the defense knows what you're going to do. Matchup and execution do also play a role in it, but you have to use different formations and looks.

[theFRANCHISE]

I don't think "conservative" is the right word -- there's situations where it's good to be conservative, such as when you've got an insurmountable lead to protect with little time left on the clock for the other team to come back.

Rather, as others have stated, "predictable" or "stubborn" are the best adjectives for Cam Cameron's playcalling.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1325551275' post='932495']
I don't think "conservative" is the right word -- there's situations where it's good to be conservative, such as when you've got an insurmountable lead to protect with little time left on the clock for the other team to come back.

Rather, as others have stated, [u][i][b]"predictable[/b][/i][/u]" or "stubborn" are the best adjectives for Cam Cameron's playcalling.
[/quote]

PREDICTABLE!!! Being predictable is making things harder for us than they need to be. Like never throwing the ball on first down(?)

My son said yesterday, "It's like we give a down away every series", because the opposition knows we are going to run on first down. Of course, I had an answer for this........ We are laying low for the assault we are going to bring in the post season. Unleash hell baby! [size=2]Well, I had to say something.[/size]

[K-Dog]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1325551275' post='932495']
I don't think "conservative" is the right word -- there's situations where it's good to be conservative, such as when you've got an insurmountable lead to protect with little time left on the clock for the other team to come back.

Rather, as others have stated, "predictable" or "stubborn" are the best adjectives for Cam Cameron's playcalling.
[/quote]

Right.

Cam does go conservative (meaning, clock eating, safe ground plays) far sooner than I personally think he should. This is just one of his flaws.

[redrum52]

The conservative talk kills me. When he tried to be aggressive I.e strip sack call vs Steelers last year everyone is in an uproar. Now he's running with the lead and can't catch a break. First, I hate Cam. I wouldn't say conservative, more too predictable like others have said. He seems to lack creativity so even when he's aggressive it doesn't work because the play itself is just trash.

[Sizzlebshu]

Simply put, in this case the word conservative means playing not to lose. Cam is doing just enough to win because he is afraid of a misfire in execution and costing the team the game via a turnover or bad drop. This playcalling style is one that usually stems from an OC not trusting his players or his playcalling. When this distrust occurs, the OC reverts and retreats back into his shell calling the plays with the lowest risk of putting his team in a compromised position. That being said, this type of play calling usually leads to compromising positions because it is predictable and allows the oppn to regain possession relatively quickly most times ie 3 and outs. An example would be running it 2x maybe 3 and passing once in order to milk the clock when there is 5 mins left. Ideally when you have a lead you would like to do this but in a small lead game with that much time left on the clock, it is more harmful to do something like this than beneficial. Why? This type of playcalling prevents you from killing the whole clock and leaves your oppn with just enough time for their series. It puts all the pressure on the defense because should they fail to stop, the game would be decided leaving no time left for the offense to retake the field and try to score. In situations like this, it is more beneficial to take risks and try to extend the drive, then it is to play it safe.

[stan]

Risk averse.

[codizzle]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1325547514' post='932401']
what does the word [i][b]"conservative" [/b][/i](in reference to calling plays on the field) mean to you?

~Mili
[/quote]
Well, I could be wrong, but I believe conservative is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era.

[Milton145]

When he plays not to lose.

[good_n_purple]

I'm of the "Cam is predictable, and stubborn" school of thought. He has a a set gameplan, no adjustments..."YOU VILL MAKE IT WORK DUMMKOPF'S"!

[flynismo]

Conservative to me mean running the ball nearly exclusively once the third quarter begins just because we are up 10 points.

AKA

Cam's m.o.

[FerrariFan87]

We really need to start throwing more on first down... I mean, we started last game off with a quick throw to Torrey for 6 yards (basically a running play anyway), but it makes the D think more. Play-action would be so lethal on first down. I am hoping that Cam has been waiting for the playoffs to really open things up, but who knows?!

[KBoum]

Like you guys all said... Its too predictable. Run run pass. If its 3 and short, short pass to the TEs or Rice. If its 3 and long, long pass that takes forever to develop and most of the time, the defense knows it, throw a little blitz and bam we get a sack.

And by predictable, I mean, its alright to run the ball Ravens are really good at that. But when you have a small lead, in the beginning of the 2nd half we've been outscored by like 40 the last games. Too safe. Play not to lose in staid of to win the game. Have you watched the Bills/Pats game ? The Pats game plan was to WIN the game. They attacked Buffalo weaknesses.

Last game against the Bengals did you notice how predictable we were ? On the big 70yards TD run that was a Lead with a fake to To Torrey Smith. It went well. After that, we ran the same play like 7 times with little result (maybe 0-2 yards each). I bought Cam was a genius and one play will be a handoff to Torrey or double playaction and a pass to the TE or I don't know... never happened always the same play that worked ONE time.

And... He needs to utilize his players to their strengths more. GIve the ball in the hand of your playmakers like the Steelers do with ANtonio Brown. Give him the ball on a quick route and let him fly. Give to ball to Boldin in a playaction behind the LBs. Mix it a little more on first down when there are 9 in the Box. I don't ask for a bomb each time but just attacks the one on one coverage like we did against Arizona and that CB #20 JEfferson if I'm right

[jdynamite]

Conservative when referring to the Ravens offense depends on the game situation for the play call. Because play calls could be the same but aggressive and attacking trying to score... Sometimes when the Ravens achieve at least a 14 pt lead, it seems as if the team just stops and forgets how it scored those points the gameplan the switches to runs up the middle for 1yd gains and passes where every route seems to be a 7-10 yd curl or out route when none of those routes open it becomes a dump off pass show to Ray Rice, Leach, and Williams.
Generally speaking the offense goes from playing to score and win the game, to attempting to use the play clock and punt for field position. Watching the Ravens vs colts game or Browns vs Ravens part 2. Where ravens had double digit leads moved the ball relatively easy then all of sudden what should have been blowout games winning by 20+ pts turned into games with closer final scores.......
Playing scared and not to lose the game rather than to win the game leads to Conservative....

[adam713]

Who cares if we are predictable, as many of you claim (which I don't necessarily agree with). What does that even mean?

Ok, let's say we are indeed predictable...oh and we're also 12-4 and just completed a clean sweep of all our divisional opponents in arguably the best division in the NFL. If we're so predictable than why can't good teams stop us? Better players? Maybe. Better Execution? Maybe. Better plays? Maybe. I think it's a mix of them all with maybe a harder emphasis on EXECUTION and great players.

I don't get why we argue this over and again. We're not experts and at this point Cam actually should warrant some CREDIT. Who are you confident would be better? Norv? Why?

I would even go as far as to argue that when we're not "predictable" or we veer away from what our team is built for we lose. Pass heavy in TEN (32 pass attempts vs. 13 Rice carries) and abysmal showing from our D; Pass heavy in JAC with good defensive performance (38 pass attempts vs. 8 Rice carries); Pass heavy in SEA (52 pass attempts vs 5 Rice carries), and For SD I'm not even going to say since our D got absolutely lit up which gave us no shot anyway. Also, we almost lost to PIT & ARI due to this disproportion, too. Last 2 games (CLE- 24 Pass attempts vs. 23 Rice carries) (CIN- 19 Pass attempts vs. 24 Rice carries).

From looking at those stats, I'd at the very least say we are a run first team and that with our offensive line talent and massive bonus which is Vonta Leach....look to pound that rock first (and we're starting to get that).

What we should be focusing on is how well is our offensive line is playing in any given game. OR, how about our wideouts actually catching catchable balls. If Lee Evans, TSMith (who've they given the opps to redeem himself), and Dickson caught a few of those catchable balls....we'd probably have bigger scoring wins. Oh, what about Joe hitting his targets when open or being able to find them when open? Does all this fall on Cam too?

I'm not a Cam apologist and don't think he's perfect. Yet, it's mad to me to see how much flack he gets for things outside of his control. Execution is key...not the predictability of the plays called.

[bpytnjr58]

Sitting on a lead...Not willing to change...predictable....basically what they did in the third quarter on Sunday.

[Suggs Package]

Every single team in the NFL is predictable on offense. The difference between a New Orleans and us is that their offense is flat out better than ours. You aren't going to surprise an NFL defense very often. The key is imposing your will on the other team even though they know what your gameplan is. If we were scoring 30 points a game with the same formula, I bet our offense wouldn't be considered predictable.

But back to the question: When I say conservative, I mean risk averse like Stan and Sizzle said earlier. Inherently, passing the ball is more risky than running it and we throw less and run more than most teams. We can afford to do this most of the time because we have the top defense in the NFL.When we do pass, its to the sidelines and not in the deep middle of the field. Its hard to tell how much of that is Cam and how much of that is Joe because we aren't in the huddle and we can't see the All-22 film. For the PSL/Season Ticker holders who actively watch, what do you think?

[lgcs27288]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1325619746' post='933559']
Every single team in the NFL is predictable on offense. The difference between a New Orleans and us is that their offense is flat out better than ours. You aren't going to surprise an NFL defense very often. The key is imposing your will on the other team even though they know what your gameplan is. If we were scoring 30 points a game with the same formula, I bet our offense wouldn't be considered predictable.


[/quote]

But we aren't, because our offense is predictable...

[PurpleCorsair]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1325578265' post='932971']
The conservative talk kills me. When he tried to be aggressive I.e strip sack call vs Steelers last year everyone is in an uproar. Now he's running with the lead and can't catch a break. First, I hate Cam. I wouldn't say conservative, more too predictable like others have said. He seems to lack creativity so even when he's aggressive it doesn't work because the play itself is just trash.
[/quote]
To be fair that particular breakdown is on the O-line.