Flacco: 4 Years And 44 Wins

[gabefergy]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1325745403' post='935465']

Its not a comparison thing.. Im sure that will come during the offseason when its nothing to talk about.. I was talking about the dude who had a list of QB's
[/quote]
Well its just 1 person's list, and I think the point was to denigrate our QB so I wouldnt put too much stock in it. I really do think Ryan is a good QB, but if he isnt careful he might get the Tony Romo label pretty soon. I know winning, and particularly winning in the playoffs, is a team effort, but at some point he is going to have to win a game that really matters.

[codizzle]

[quote name='FlaStlrfan' timestamp='1325702356' post='934817']
Take the 4 wins and 44 victories a degree further.

I've seen the Dan Marino comparisons (same # of wins in 1st 3 seasons, including playoffs). That ignored that Joe played in more games, starting immediately as a rookie as well as ignoring that Marino went to 3 Pro Bowls, set records for TD passes and yards, won an MVP and reached a Super Bowl.

Within both Brady and Roethlisberger's 1st 4 years, both had won Super Bowls, named to the Pro Bowl and thrown for 4000 yards. Flacco's 3600 yards would have been great if it were 1998, but the standard by which he is judged now, he is in the category of an over the hill Matt Hasselbeck, barely better than rookies Dalton and Newton and in the category of the equally over rated Mark Sanchez.

Best be praying Ray Rice doesn't come down with a high ankle sprain - but either way, you'll find out why running the ball wins in the regular season, but passing is what wins in the playoffs the hard way -- again.
[/quote]
What's the steelers mascot again?

[codizzle]

[quote name='FlaStlrfan' timestamp='1325702356' post='934817']
Take the 4 wins and 44 victories a degree further.

I've seen the Dan Marino comparisons (same # of wins in 1st 3 seasons, including playoffs). That ignored that Joe played in more games, starting immediately as a rookie as well as ignoring that Marino went to 3 Pro Bowls, set records for TD passes and yards, won an MVP and reached a Super Bowl.

Within both Brady and Roethlisberger's 1st 4 years, both had won Super Bowls, named to the Pro Bowl and thrown for 4000 yards. Flacco's 3600 yards would have been great if it were 1998, but the standard by which he is judged now, he is in the category of an over the hill Matt Hasselbeck, barely better than rookies Dalton and Newton and in the category of the equally over rated Mark Sanchez.

Best be praying Ray Rice doesn't come down with a high ankle sprain - but either way, you'll find out why running the ball wins in the regular season, but passing is what wins in the playoffs the hard way -- again.
[/quote]
Who was ur qb before ben? Seemed to have forgotten

[BmoreRavens732]

I wouldnt rank stafford higher then joe yet until he stays healthy more then one season but its arguable...newton either because its just to soon but I see where your goin...romo is good but is the biggest choke artist and has dez bryant jason whitten and miles austin and still cant get it done so no imo hes not on joes level but just imo...and honestly eli and joe are the same to me besides the superbowl win eli has..if anything eli may be just a step ahead...btw who keeps letting trolls in smh

[H8R]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325736548' post='935408']
I'm not sad to talk highly of a pro bowler, but are you sad that you have to stick up for a QB that so many fans, analysts and other members of the media deem average? It's Ok, if you need a shoulder to cry on. Vinny may have choked but Joe isn't exactly clutch. And let's not even bring up his one game this year against Pitt as clutch. He was awesome, he was everything we needed in a QB that game, but that was 1 game this season! I guess I just have higher standards than you. Which isn't a surprise.
[/quote]


Wait? Probowl? Thats the measuring stick.... the Pro Bowl? It seems you're butt hurt that I pummled you with fact, knowledge and logic. I don't need a shoulder to cry on, why would I? I've proven you wrong, shattered your "preception" and leave you their lying with nothing but lame insults... So, now..Vinny choked.... and your idea of his level of skill was wrong.... It would have been much easier for you to just bow to me. So, basically all of the questions I've asked... you ignored ( obvioulsy because you dont want to agree fact). If you'd have answered, it would have diminished your "argument"... Once again, you FAIL.

My standards are low? You praised Vinny Testaverde..... AND MY STANDARDS are low? You're very contridictory to your own "logic". Credibility? You have none. So, it might just be best for you to just end it, otherwise I will hammer you into submission with a simplistic approach...... FACT.

[codizzle]

Idk what you all yellin bout.. Boller better than both of em

[BmoreRavens732]

Im with codizzle lmao

[Tank 92]

I know it's human nature to want to rank and compare QBs, but there's really no objective way to fairly rank and compare true talent at the position. There are so many variables, the most glaring being the team surrounding the QB, that the debate could go on and on and on and on.................................

What we can do is subjectively look at the individual's body of work and give an educated opinion on the success/failure of that individual.

Without going into lengthy stats and facts that have been stated all over this board, I am of the opinion that Flacco is a darn good QB. When you consider the second tier program he came from and the fact that he had ZERO time as an apprentice, I think he has done very well with sometimes limited resources. Also I believe he shows an above average aptitude for the position, the patience needed to learn, and that he will continue to improve. I hope we can soon give him a stable of weapons that will allow him to flourish and reach his potential.

[codizzle]

[quote name='BmoreRavens732' timestamp='1325768274' post='935527']
Im with codizzle lmao
[/quote]
Wise man.. Very wise man

[atljbo]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1325747490' post='935471']
Well its just 1 person's list, and I think the point was to denigrate our QB so I wouldnt put too much stock in it. I really do think Ryan is a good QB, but if he isnt careful he might get the Tony Romo label pretty soon. I know winning, and particularly winning in the playoffs, is a team effort, but at some point he is going to have to win a game that really matters.
[/quote]


I was talking about the next group of QBs on dudes list (after the elite group) ... Also i agree with your romo comment... I think the slight difference is Romo has been on a good offense and Defense (until this year) and still havnt produce.. Not only has he not produce but he was a main reason why they lost... But i agree.. Ryan needs to win a playoff game soon before you get that cant win in the playoff thing gets stuck to him..

[UMDan]

[quote name='awholelottahaloti' timestamp='1325768450' post='935528']
I know it's human nature to want to rank and compare QBs, but there's really no subjective way to fairly rank and compare true talent at the position. There are so many variables, the most glaring being the team surrounding the QB, that the debate could go on and on and on and on.................................

What we can do is subjectively look at the individual's body of work and give an educated opinion on the success/failure of that individual.

Without going into lengthy stats and facts that have been stated all over this board, I am of the opinion that Flacco is a darn good QB. When you consider the second tier program he came from and the fact that he had ZERO time as an apprentice, I think he has done very well with sometimes limited resources. Also I believe he shows an above average aptitude for the position, the patience needed to learn, and that he will continue to improve. I hope we can soon give him a stable of weapons that will allow him to flourish and reach his potential.
[/quote]

This so much. I agree whole-heartedly. Look at the Packers. I think Aaron Rodgers is great, but, you look at how well Matt Flynn did on Sunday and you have to think to yourself... is this offense so good because Aaron Rodgers is so good, or because he has more weapons than any other quarterback in the league? This is precisely why I think Drew Brees is more deserving of MVP.

[Alexir]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325739157' post='935439']

I don't see much room for debate with you. I'm pretty sure that you're way too confident about something that you know very little about. I guess to you, it's a dichotomy; either you're a game manager, or you're throwing for 5,000 yards. Flacco is something in the middle, and he fits our team. No excuses, just facts and context instead of subjective opinions. Think what you want, he's an above average QB at least.
[/quote]
Matt Schaub has a great run game yet he can march his team down the field. He is not a game manager. i don't need him to throw for even 4000 yards. I just need his throws to count and not turn the ball over

[Alexir]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325765223' post='935511']


Wait? Probowl? Thats the measuring stick.... the Pro Bowl? It seems you're butt hurt that I pummled you with fact, knowledge and logic. I don't need a shoulder to cry on, why would I? I've proven you wrong, shattered your "preception" and leave you their lying with nothing but lame insults... So, now..Vinny choked.... and your idea of his level of skill was wrong.... It would have been much easier for you to just bow to me. So, basically all of the questions I've asked... you ignored ( obvioulsy because you dont want to agree fact). If you'd have answered, it would have diminished your "argument"... Once again, you FAIL.

My standards are low? You praised Vinny Testaverde..... AND MY STANDARDS are low? You're very contridictory to your own "logic". Credibility? You have none. So, it might just be best for you to just end it, otherwise I will hammer you into submission with a simplistic approach...... FACT.
[/quote]

Hammer me into submission? Take it easy internet tough guy. Does Joe hold onto the ball too long? Does he overthrow his receivers? Does he stare down his receivers? Does he get rattled in away games?

He doesn't need to be Tom or Aaron, he is a game manager with an Eli Manning ceiling. Defend him all you and the Pro Bowl isn't a mesaure of a great QB, that was just defending Vinnys year in Baltimore that he obviously wasn't crap. Since my opinion is that of many analysts and people who do not wear purple shades, I think i can sleep easy and hey if he turns into Steve Young or Even Big Ben next year, then great! But I don't celebrate mediocrity or call people great when they are undeserving.

[Dudeman]

[quote name='awholelottahaloti' timestamp='1325768450' post='935528']
I know it's human nature to want to rank and compare QBs, but there's really no subjective way to fairly rank and compare true talent at the position. There are so many variables, the most glaring being the team surrounding the QB, that the debate could go on and on and on and on.................................

What we can do is subjectively look at the individual's body of work and give an educated opinion on the success/failure of that individual.

Without going into lengthy stats and facts that have been stated all over this board, I am of the opinion that Flacco is a darn good QB. When you consider the second tier program he came from and the fact that he had ZERO time as an apprentice, I think he has done very well with sometimes limited resources. Also I believe he shows an above average aptitude for the position, the patience needed to learn, and that he will continue to improve. I hope we can soon give him a stable of weapons that will allow him to flourish and reach his potential.
[/quote]

I agree with this, and I like the succinct way it was stated. Thank you for this post! I agree in that when you just try to quantify the data on it's own merit that you miss out on the bigger picture. You just end up taking up too much out of context.

Also congrats to Flacco and the Ravens once more. What a phenomenal season with 12 wins and a home play-off berth. If we win and NE losses next week we will have two home play-off games! It's just what I wanted for Hannuka, Christmas, New Years, and just about any holiday ever. The opportunity to continue watching the Ravens and making this football season last a little bit longer.

First team to get to 44 wins in 4 seasons sounds pretty good to me.

[H8R]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325779407' post='935624']

Hammer me into submission? Take it easy internet tough guy. Does Joe hold onto the ball too long? Does he overthrow his receivers? Does he stare down his receivers? Does he get rattled in away games?

He doesn't need to be Tom or Aaron, he is a game manager with an Eli Manning ceiling. Defend him all you and the Pro Bowl isn't a mesaure of a great QB, that was just defending Vinnys year in Baltimore that he obviously wasn't crap. Since my opinion is that of many analysts and people who do not wear purple shades, I think i can sleep easy and hey if he turns into Steve Young or Even Big Ben next year, then great! But I don't celebrate mediocrity or call people great when they are undeserving.
[/quote]

Internet tough guy? As if you knew me in another way... Maybe I'm a tough guy in real life.... But thats doesnt matter in this conversation, does it? When did I say Joe was great, please tell me. I will say he's better then the RAVENS have EVER had, he's probably the third best QB that Baltimore ( the City, includiong the Colts) has ever had, he's done more then most his age, has room to grow, is tough, can win games, great team member, humble guy.....what more do you want?

Does he hold on to the ball too long at times? He has

Does he over throw receivers? He has

Does he get rattled in away games? He has

What young QB does it better then Joe, really look at it and name a few....

what player HASNT done the same things? You're more critical of Flacco because he's on your team and you watch all the games. You think he should be more, while ignoring what he's accompolished. He's more then a game manager.


The Anyalst you're refering to, how closely do they really watch Joe...or any player? The same anyalyst that make silly statemants daily?

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='awholelottahaloti' timestamp='1325768450' post='935528']
I know it's human nature to want to rank and compare QBs, but there's really no objective way to fairly rank and compare true talent at the position. There are so many variables, the most glaring being the team surrounding the QB, that the debate could go on and on and on and on.................................

What we can do is subjectively look at the individual's body of work and give an educated opinion on the success/failure of that individual.

Without going into lengthy stats and facts that have been stated all over this board, I am of the opinion that Flacco is a darn good QB. When you consider the second tier program he came from and the fact that he had ZERO time as an apprentice, I think he has done very well with sometimes limited resources. Also I believe he shows an above average aptitude for the position, the patience needed to learn, and that he will continue to improve. I hope we can soon give him a stable of weapons that will allow him to flourish and reach his potential.
[/quote]

Perfectly said.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325779001' post='935615']
Matt Schaub has a great run game yet he can march his team down the field. He is not a game manager. i don't need him to throw for even 4000 yards. I just need his throws to count and not turn the ball over
[/quote]

His throws do count, and he makes some good ones, which is why he's more than a game manager. I don't know where people get the idea that he turns the ball over a lot, compare him to the rest of the league and see. If you look at just this season maybe he's a little higher, but over the last three seasons he does not have this mythical tendency. I suppose you blamed Flacco for the interception in the Cardinals game that bounced right off of Torrey's hands.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325709618' post='934958']
what ever you say buddy. Vinny's 2 seasons as a Raven he threw for over [b]50 touchdowns and 7,000 yards playing 29 games and a pro bowl invite[/b]. Joe has been invited as an alternated after 2 QBs backed out and passed on it. Which is impressive I guess. Spewing hot garbage? hahahahaha, man you Flacco Fluffers really do get flustered...

[img]http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-200905/716e6aa915c7c2d1d755e4373f02c893.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

He also completed less than 60 percent of his passes in both years, had 19 interceptions and 9 fumbles in one year, and 15 interceptions and 11 fumbles the other year. So 50 touchdowns, 54 turnovers (34 interceptions, 20 fumbles).

[Ravenslifer]

The number of wins just shows that he has the ability to at worst not lose you football games, and at best win football games. So Flacco should get credit as being the starting quarterback that won 44 games in his first 4 seasons. Not saying he deserves credit for leading every win, but the fact is nobody else in the history of the league has done it. Why isn't that something Ravens fans should be proud of? I don't really get the argument at all.

Herein lies the problem: This is a debate between people who don't want to give Flacco any credit and we should move on from him, and people who think he deserves credit and has the talent to get better. I don't think anyone would say this is a good season from Joe. Last season was by far his best. But I do feel he's shown the talent that he has in helping us sweep the division and leading the largest comeback in Ravens team history. Hopefully Flacco can continue to get better in the coming years and lead the Ravens to a few Superbowl titles.

[flynismo]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325765223' post='935511']


Wait? Probowl? Thats the measuring stick.... the Pro Bowl? It seems you're butt hurt that I pummled you with fact, knowledge and logic. I don't need a shoulder to cry on, why would I? I've proven you wrong, shattered your "preception" and leave you their lying with nothing but lame insults... So, now..Vinny choked.... and your idea of his level of skill was wrong.... It would have been much easier for you to just bow to me. So, basically all of the questions I've asked... you ignored ( obvioulsy because you dont want to agree fact). If you'd have answered, it would have diminished your "argument"... Once again, you FAIL.

My standards are low? You praised Vinny Testaverde..... AND MY STANDARDS are low? You're very contridictory to your own "logic". Credibility? You have none. So, it might just be best for you to just end it, otherwise I will hammer you into submission with a simplistic approach...... FACT.[/quote]


* wipes tear of pride from eye *

facts and logic -- the Flacco Haters kryptonite

[Runnin Raven]

Joe carried the team on his back in the Arizona and Steeler games this year. He's capable of it, but doesn't do it consistently.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Runnin Raven' timestamp='1325791883' post='935812']Joe carried the team on his back in the Arizona and Steeler games this year. He's capable of it, but doesn't do it consistently.[/quote]

who does, other than Rodgers Brady and Brees?

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1325793593' post='935834']
who does, other than Rodgers Brady and Brees?
[/quote]

Peyton when he's healthy. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img]

[Alexir]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325781462' post='935650']

Internet tough guy? As if you knew me in another way... Maybe I'm a tough guy in real life.... But thats doesnt matter in this conversation, does it? When did I say Joe was great, please tell me. I will say he's better then the RAVENS have EVER had, he's probably the third best QB that Baltimore ( the City, includiong the Colts) has ever had, he's done more then most his age, has room to grow, is tough, can win games, great team member, humble guy.....what more do you want?

Does he hold on to the ball too long at times? He has

Does he over throw receivers? He has

Does he get rattled in away games? He has

What young QB does it better then Joe, really look at it and name a few....

what player HASNT done the same things? You're more critical of Flacco because he's on your team and you watch all the games. You think he should be more, while ignoring what he's accompolished. He's more then a game manager.


The Anyalst you're refering to, how closely do they really watch Joe...or any player? The same anyalyst that make silly statemants daily?
[/quote]
3rd Best that Baltimore has ever had? who is number 2? (assuming JU is number 1)

[H8R]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325823021' post='936236']

3rd Best that Baltimore has ever had? who is number 2? (assuming JU is number 1)
[/quote]

Bert Jones

[Alexir]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325786736' post='935729']

His throws do count, and he makes some good ones, which is why he's more than a game manager. I don't know where people get the idea that he turns the ball over a lot, compare him to the rest of the league and see. If you look at just this season maybe he's a little higher, but over the last three seasons he does not have this mythical tendency. I suppose you blamed Flacco for the interception in the Cardinals game that bounced right off of Torrey's hands.
[/quote]
Interceptions are one thing but the reason he has to throw so many passes is because like you said about schaub he needs to make them count. His accuracy and the inability to decide where the ball needs to go is holding him back

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325823166' post='936239']
Interceptions are one thing but the reason he has to throw so many passes is because like you said about schaub he needs to make them count. His accuracy and the inability to decide where the ball needs to go is holding him back
[/quote]

Well I think that he can improve in those areas, and decrease the number of situations where he looks like that. Because, you have to admit, no QB can avoid it completely. We made Brady look bad in the playoffs, so did the Jets (who contained Manning the week before). Brees lost to the Rams and looked awful, Rodgers didn't look good against the Chiefs. I know Stafford had a few awful games this year, despite passing for all those yards, and they were often so behind that they had no choice but to pass. QBs can look good in a loss, or bad in a win, but ultimately they're trying to minimize mistakes which are impossible to eliminate completely. It's not correct to criticize Flacco in a vacuum.

[PurpleCorsair]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325823082' post='936237']
Bert Jones
[/quote]
Uh...No. Bert had one spectacular year. Other than that he was rather pedestrian.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='PurpleCorsair' timestamp='1325825517' post='936258']
Uh...No. Bert had one spectacular year. Other than that he was rather pedestrian.
[/quote]

Maybe it's better put this way. Bert Jones' '76 season made him one of only 3 quarterbacks in the entire decade to finish with a passer rating over 100. He was also MVP that year. So thus far in his career I'd say that one year trumps Flacco's career [i]to this point[/i]. While it's pretty much impossible for Joe to pass Unitas as greatest Baltimore QB ever (given that it's Johnny U), he is definitely capable of being number 2 on the list when all is said and done.

[BmoreRaised]

Flacco doesn't suck. I feel people tend to either overrate or underrate him. We are AFC NORTH CHAMPS BABY!!!! I am a realist, I feel Flacco has potential to be a very good QB but I question his overall football I.Q. I think we are all passionate fans and just want the ring!

First game of the year I was like OMG! Flacco is looking like an ALL-PRO, the next game against Tenn. I was just disappointed. Your feelings always change as a fan but we all have one common goal. Superbowl and I will see you in Indy!!