Flacco: 4 Years And 44 Wins

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325693682' post='934603']

no, and I can see how you might have gotten that from what I wrote ( i was typing on a train, on an iPhone). Basically, I'm saying he is NOT great but its unfair to compare him to the current greats in the game. Brady, Brees, Rogers.... he's not on that level and likely NEVER will be, these are rare talents. I dont think Joe is a rare talent. then again, neither was Bradshaw, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Naimath etc.... they still got what we're trying to get with Flacco.
[/quote]
Oh ok got ya.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='FlaStlrfan' timestamp='1325702356' post='934817']
Take the 4 wins and 44 victories a degree further.

I've seen the Dan Marino comparisons (same # of wins in 1st 3 seasons, including playoffs). That ignored that Joe played in more games, starting immediately as a rookie as well as ignoring that Marino went to 3 Pro Bowls, set records for TD passes and yards, won an MVP and reached a Super Bowl.

Within both Brady and Roethlisberger's 1st 4 years, both had won Super Bowls, named to the Pro Bowl and thrown for 4000 yards. Flacco's 3600 yards would have been great if it were 1998, but the standard by which he is judged now, he is in the category of an over the hill Matt Hasselbeck, barely better than rookies Dalton and Newton and in the category of the equally over rated Mark Sanchez.

Best be praying Ray Rice doesn't come down with a high ankle sprain - but either way, you'll find out why running the ball wins in the regular season, but passing is what wins in the playoffs the hard way -- again.
[/quote]
Wow there may be some truth in this.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325707824' post='934903']

Wow there may be some truth in this.
[/quote]
Figures you'd agree with a Steeler fan that has facts wrong and skewed!

Ben R never threw for 4k yards in his first 4 years. He also had horrendous stats the first few years of his career. And we all know about his SB numbers and how the D carried him. Do I agree a little about the Brady portion? Sure, a little bit. But even putting Ben R in the same post as Brady makes his entire view wrong and completely laughable! But, Im happy you see truth in it!

[berad]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325708142' post='934915']
Figures you'd agree with a Steeler fan that has fact wrong and skewed!

[b]Ben R never threw for 4k yards in his first 4 years.[/b] He also had horrendous stats the first few years of his career. And we all know about his SB numbers and how the D carried him. Do I agree a little about the Brady portion? Sure, a little bit. But even putting Ben R in the same post as Brady makes his entire view wrong and completely laughable! But, Im happy you see truth in it!
[/quote]

Neither did Brady. Sometimes I wonder where these guys pull these stats from.

The fact that people are so grumpy about facts tells you all you need to know.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325708142' post='934915']
Figures you'd agree with a Steeler fan that has fact wrong and skewed!

Ben R never threw for 4k yards in his first 4 years. He also had horrendous stats the first few years of his career. And we all know about his SB numbers and how the D carried him. Do I agree a little about the Brady portion? Sure, a little bit. But even putting Ben R in the same post as Brady makes his entire view wrong and completely laughable! But, Im happy you see truth in it!
[/quote]
Oh i agree with you Big ben had horrible stats and one could argue that Randle el won that first Super Bowl. I should have highlighted what i agreed with. Sidenote; I like it better when we argue, welcome back to the darkside.

[Alexir]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325697869' post='934703']

I think it's more of the conclusions drawn than the criticism. Most of us are fine with reasonable criticism. It's the refusal to give him his credit. He's earned some credit and some praise for what he's done in his career. People want to act like he's average and carried by the defense and Ray Rice, but looking at his stats it's clear that he produces! Sometimes he's the one making Rice look good with perfect passes, and even Rice would admit it, so don't tell me he pads his passing yards. Every QB has check down options, you don't hear about Brady padding his stats with Welker or Brees padding them with Sproles (obviously they do more than Flacco, but you don't subtract the yards that are gotten from wide open check downs). Other QBs have good defenses. But all you talk about is the negatives, as if Flacco is treated as some kind of heralded savior and it's necessary for you to balance it out. It's not! Everyone criticizes the guy, and no one claims that he's great! So excuse us for being positive and giving credit where some credit is due. You'd rather wait and hope for him to fail so you can feel vindicated or something.
[/quote]
I ll give him credit as a great game manager and an upgrade over anyone we have had (except Vinny) but I will give him criticism for his inconsistency, accuracy, and how he holds on to the ball too long and when he needs to hold on to the ball, he fumbles it! I think he is better than half the starting qbs out there, but not top 10 talent. Good game manager.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325708477' post='934929']

Oh i agree with you Big ben had horrible stats and one could argue that Randle el won that first Super Bowl. I should have highlighted what i agreed with. Sidenote; I like it better when we argue, welcome back to the darkside.
[/quote]
Completely agree...that one day where we agreed on things was extremely odd. Threw my whole day off!

[H8R]

[quote name='FlaStlrfan' timestamp='1325702356' post='934817']
Take the 4 wins and 44 victories a degree further.

I've seen the Dan Marino comparisons (same # of wins in 1st 3 seasons, including playoffs). That ignored that Joe played in more games, starting immediately as a rookie as well as ignoring that Marino went to 3 Pro Bowls, set records for TD passes and yards, won an MVP and reached a Super Bowl.

Within both Brady and Roethlisberger's 1st 4 years, both had won Super Bowls, named to the Pro Bowl and thrown for 4000 yards. Flacco's 3600 yards would have been great if it were 1998, but the standard by which he is judged now, he is in the category of an over the hill Matt Hasselbeck, barely better than rookies Dalton and Newton and in the category of the equally over rated Mark Sanchez.

Best be praying Ray Rice doesn't come down with a high ankle sprain - but either way, you'll find out why running the ball wins in the regular season, but passing is what wins in the playoffs the hard way -- again.
[/quote]


He's beaten the Steelers twice this season, man... This kid must really stink. I mean, carving up that Cashmere Curtain defense ....


TROLL ALERT.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325708768' post='934938']
Completely agree...that one day where we agreed on things was extremely odd. Threw my whole day off!
[/quote]
lol prepare for war!!!!!!

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325708742' post='934935']

I ll give him credit as a great game manager and an upgrade over anyone we have had (except Vinny) but I will give him criticism for his inconsistency, accuracy, and how he holds on to the ball too long and when he needs to hold on to the ball, he fumbles it! I think he is better than half the starting qbs out there, but not top 10 talent. Good game manager.
[/quote]
Unfortunately, at this time, I would concur. This has been my stance for a while, its just when people go over the top with "Flacco sucks!", "He'll never win a SB!" and get all "wiz" on him that pisses me off!

[H8R]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325708742' post='934935']

I ll give him credit as a great game manager and an upgrade over anyone we have had (except Vinny) but I will give him criticism for his inconsistency, accuracy, and how he holds on to the ball too long and when he needs to hold on to the ball, he fumbles it! I think he is better than half the starting qbs out there, but not top 10 talent. Good game manager.
[/quote]

Wait, saluting Vinny? And then talking about Joes accuracy? Hahahahah. Man, you really are out of touch. Vinny was the ULTIMATE choke Artist... That' guy had a ton of 4th quarter picks... to LOSE GAMES..Vinny was a gun slinger on a pass first offense. Not to mention, Vinny had PLENTY of fumbles.... You're just talking to talk at this point. You're now just spewing hot garbage....


Ginny's career numbers

275 TD's
267 ints
56 percent completion percentage

Lol, you're a funny little guy...

[Alexir]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325708910' post='934943']
Unfortunately, at this time, I would concur. This has been my stance for a while, its just when people go over the top with "Flacco sucks!", "He'll never win a SB!" and get all "wiz" on him that pisses me off!
[/quote]
Yeah, I don't think he sucks, think he is just inconsistent. And if Dilfer can win a super bowl, I'm sure Joe can[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/ravensquote.gif[/img]

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325709249' post='934950']

Yeah, I don't think he sucks, think he is just inconsistent. And if Dilfer can win a super bowl, I'm sure Joe can[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/ravensquote.gif[/img]
[/quote]
See, then you go and say Dilfer and Flacco in the same post...dammit, Alexir! Im tying man

[Alexir]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325709225' post='934949']
Wait, saluting Vinny? And then talking about Joes accuracy? Hahahahah. Man, you really are out of touch. Vinny was the ULTIMATE choke Artist... That' guy had a ton of 4th quarter picks... to LOSE GAMES..Vinny was a gun slinger on a pass first offense. Not to mention, Vinny had PLENTY of fumbles.... You're just talking to talk at this point. You're now just spewing hot garbage....
[/quote]
what ever you say buddy. Vinny's 2 seasons as a Raven he threw for over 50 touchdowns and 7,000 yards playing 29 games and a pro bowl invite. Joe has been invited as an alternated after 2 QBs backed out and passed on it. Which is impressive I guess. Spewing hot garbage? hahahahaha, man you Flacco Fluffers really do get flustered...

[img]http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-200905/716e6aa915c7c2d1d755e4373f02c893.jpg[/img]

[Alexir]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325709471' post='934956']
See, then you go and say Dilfer and Flacco in the same post...dammit, Alexir! Im tying man [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]
Well I meant that Flacco is better than Dilfer so he can most definitely win a super bowl and he can contribute to one as well.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325709667' post='934960']

Well I meant that Flacco is better than Dilfer so he can most definitely win a super bowl and he can contribute to one as well.
[/quote]
I know...just jabbin' ya

[H8R]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325709618' post='934958']

what ever you say buddy. Vinny's 2 seasons as a Raven he threw for over 50 touchdowns and 7,000 yards playing 29 games and a pro bowl invite. Joe has been invited as an alternated after 2 QBs backed out and passed on it. Which is impressive I guess. Spewing hot garbage? hahahahaha, man you Flacco Fluffers really do get flustered...

[img]http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-200905/716e6aa915c7c2d1d755e4373f02c893.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

LOL, it is whatever I say... Because I'm talking facts. Vinny was the ultimate choke..... He had a darn good receiving duo and an anemic run game..... Pass. Pass. Pass. are you old enough to remember Vinny play? If you were, and did watch... You'd see the guy gave away games on the regular.

Vinny didn't win 40 games until 9 years into his career. You're sad. No fluff in the facts ...


Furthermore, the stats you listed.... Joe has almost did the same thing.... WHILE winning .... Opps

[H8R]

Vinny had an 88 and a 75 passer rating while in Baltimore...

Do I need to continue?

[Romo Ravens]

This is great for Flacco and all, but does anyone really think he'd get this many wins if he was on a team with a bad defense?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1325710601' post='934988']
This is great for Flacco and all, but does anyone really think he'd get this many wins if he was on a team with a bad defense?
[/quote]
Of course not...few would.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325710685' post='934990']
Of course not...few would.
[/quote]

Yea. I'm still proud of him though.. gotta keep it up in the playoffs

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325708742' post='934935']
I ll give him credit as a great game manager and an upgrade over anyone we have had (except Vinny) but I will give him criticism for his inconsistency, accuracy, and how he holds on to the ball too long and when he needs to hold on to the ball, he fumbles it! I think he is better than half the starting qbs out there, but [b]not top 10 talent. Good game manager.[/b]
[/quote]

You know, it's easy to say those things. People have said things like that about every QB that didn't win a SB in their first few seasons. You'd prefer to look at only this season, instead of his last three seasons, as a way to judge his talent. Not sure why you'd want to use a smaller sample size, but I'm willing to bet if you look at QBs over the last three seasons he ranks much higher. And he continues to improve, that doesn't end at year four. I'm not even saying he's a top 10 QB, but I'm not sure how you can make those definitive statements.

[Ravens Lover]

By far one of the most underrated Qbs in the league, sure he has is faults, but every player does, all this guy does is win, and he is the best Qb the Ravens have ever had

[Alexir]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325710190' post='934978']
LOL, it is whatever I say... Because I'm talking facts. Vinny was the ultimate choke..... He had a darn good receiving duo and an anemic run game..... Pass. Pass. Pass. are you old enough to remember Vinny play? If you were, and did watch... You'd see the guy gave away games on the regular.

Vinny didn't win 40 games until 9 years into his career. You're sad. No fluff in the facts ...


Furthermore, the stats you listed.... Joe has almost did the same thing.... WHILE winning .... Opps
[/quote]
I'm not sad to talk highly of a pro bowler, but are you sad that you have to stick up for a QB that so many fans, analysts and other members of the media deem average? It's Ok, if you need a shoulder to cry on. Vinny may have choked but Joe isn't exactly clutch. And let's not even bring up his one game this year against Pitt as clutch. He was awesome, he was everything we needed in a QB that game, but that was 1 game this season! I guess I just have higher standards than you. Which isn't a surprise.

[Alexir]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325713759' post='935063']

You know, it's easy to say those things. People have said things like that about every QB that didn't win a SB in their first few seasons. You'd prefer to look at only this season, instead of his last three seasons, as a way to judge his talent. Not sure why you'd want to use a smaller sample size, but I'm willing to bet if you look at QBs over the last three seasons he ranks much higher. And he continues to improve, that doesn't end at year four. I'm not even saying he's a top 10 QB, but I'm not sure how you can make those definitive statements.
[/quote]
He's not Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. 4. He's not Phillip Rivers, Matthew Stafford (when healthy), Tony Romo or even Eli Manning.4. He's not on Schaub's or Newton's level either.

My statements are based on can he march his team down field with passes and running game to get points on the board consistently and the answer is no. So you can leech onto his stats as much as you want but he is a game manager, meaning limited passing and lots of hand offs to win games. Thats what he is right now. Does he have the arm to stretch the field? Absolutely. But he holds onto the ball too long and until we bring in a QB coach to teach him how to be a better passer, I think he will continue to struggle and I think you all will still come up with excuses.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325736862' post='935412']
He's not Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. 4. He's not Phillip Rivers, Matthew Stafford (when healthy), Tony Romo or even Eli Manning.4. He's not on Schaub's or Newton's level either.

My statements are based on [b]can he march his team down field with passes and running game to get points on the board consistently and the answer is no. So you can leech onto his stats as much as you want but he is a game manager, meaning limited passing and lots of hand offs to win games.[/b] Thats what he is right now. Does he have the arm to stretch the field? Absolutely. But he holds onto the ball too long and until we bring in a QB coach to teach him how to be a better passer, I think he will continue to struggle and I think you all will still come up with excuses.
[/quote]

I don't see much room for debate with you. I'm pretty sure that you're way too confident about something that you know very little about. I guess to you, it's a dichotomy; either you're a game manager, or you're throwing for 5,000 yards. Flacco is something in the middle, and he fits our team. No excuses, just facts and context instead of subjective opinions. Think what you want, he's an above average QB at least.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

If Top 10 = Elite, then Joe Flacco is elite. Let's face it, the team with the best QB usually wins the game. I might agree with Alexir on the top four QBs but not on the next six. He left off some very good QBs and included one who may soon join the ranks of the elite in the league. Tony Romo? C'mon man! With a little more help from some of his receivers, Joe would even be rated higher. The perfect pass he threw to Lee Evans on Sunday was a prime example. It should have been caught and would have been caught by Jerry Rice. I do hope Anquan Boldin is healthy in time for the playoffs. Otherwise, Ed Reed may have to play both ways. I think he and Lardarius Webb have caught more passes this year than Lee Evans has.

[atljbo]

Matt Ryan didnt even make that list... wow

[gabefergy]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1325741559' post='935452']
Matt Ryan didnt even make that list... wow
[/quote]
What list? Top 10? I think Matt Ryan is a top 10 QB, but he needs to show something in the playoffs or in big games before I think he is anything more than a good QB. Seriously though, this thread is not about Matt Ryan and tbh I think we have had enough of the Joe Flacco/Matt Ryan comparisons already.

[atljbo]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1325742756' post='935461']
What list? Top 10? I think Matt Ryan is a top 10 QB, but he needs to show something in the playoffs or in big games before I think he is anything more than a good QB. Seriously though, this thread is not about Matt Ryan and tbh I think we have had enough of the Joe Flacco/Matt Ryan comparisons already.
[/quote]

Its not a comparison thing.. Im sure that will come during the offseason when its nothing to talk about.. I was talking about the dude who had a list of QB's