Flacco: 4 Years And 44 Wins

[True]

Haruki Nakamura: 4 years and 44 wins.

[1/28/01]

I guess people aren't understanding the game here...

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325605962' post='933181']
Didn't start all those games though.
[/quote]

He still appeared in all of them. I actually think him, Joe and Koch are the only players to do that in the Harbaugh era.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325559976' post='932717']
Jarrett Johnson won 44 games in 4 years too. Played in every game since 2008. Wheres his credit?

Point being that

[size=5]Wins are for teams, stats and passer ratings are for individuals.[/size]
[/quote]

I agree, but when you look at the facts, a team's success is directly related to the success of the QB. We were only missing one thing from our team for most of the decade, a QB. We had the greatest defense, and a great RB, and a great OL. The only thing we were missing was a QB. Once we got a QB, we started winning consistently.

Obviously the whole team gets credit for it, but the success of the team is directly related to the success of the QB. The same thing can be viewed with the Bengals, 49ers, Colts, and Vikings.

The Bengals and 49ers have had talent on their team for years but didn't have a consistent QB at the helm. Not to say that Dalton is the answer (its too premature) but they had a great season with him. Same for the 49ers, though that speaks more for the coaching change, which did effect the consistency of Alex Smith.

And we all know what happened to the Colts... They lose Manning, they lost their team. Last year, in the playoffs. This year, not in the playoffs. Same team, other than Manning. Vikings were sort of the same way. In 2009 they made it to the NFC championship with Favre. Where were they before that? Same thing we were. Good defense, good running game, no quarterback.

[Alexir]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325621430' post='933611']

I agree, but when you look at the facts, a team's success is directly related to the success of the QB. We were only missing one thing from our team for most of the decade, a QB. We had the greatest defense, and a great RB, and a great OL. The only thing we were missing was a QB. Once we got a QB, we started winning consistently.

Obviously the whole team gets credit for it, but the success of the team is directly related to the success of the QB. The same thing can be viewed with the Bengals, 49ers, Colts, and Vikings.

The Bengals and 49ers have had talent on their team for years but didn't have a consistent QB at the helm. Not to say that Dalton is the answer (its too premature) but they had a great season with him. Same for the 49ers, though that speaks more for the coaching change, which did effect the consistency of Alex Smith.

And we all know what happened to the Colts... They lose Manning, they lost their team. Last year, in the playoffs. This year, not in the playoffs. Same team, other than Manning. Vikings were sort of the same way. In 2009 they made it to the NFC championship with Favre. Where were they before that? Same thing we were. Good defense, good running game, no quarterback.
[/quote]
Agree with you. I just guess I hate when people make Flacco look like he is carrying this team in some way or another, he contributes, but he isn't Brees or Brady.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325621430' post='933611']

I agree, but when you look at the facts, [b]a team's success is directly related to the success of the QB.[/b] We were only missing one thing from our team for most of the decade, a QB. We had the greatest defense, and a great RB, and a great OL. The only thing we were missing was a QB. Once we got a QB, we started winning consistently.

Obviously the whole team gets credit for it, but the success of the team is directly related to the success of the QB. The same thing can be viewed with the[b] Bengals, 49ers, Colts, and Vikings.[/b]

The Bengals and 49ers have had talent on their team for years but didn't have a consistent QB at the helm. Not to say that Dalton is the answer (its too premature) but they had a great season with him. Same for the 49ers, though that speaks more for the coaching change, which did effect the consistency of Alex Smith.

And we all know what happened to the Colts... They lose Manning, they lost their team. Last year, in the playoffs. This year, not in the playoffs. Same team, other than Manning. Vikings were sort of the same way. In 2009 they made it to the NFC championship with Favre. Where were they before that? Same thing we were. Good defense, good running game, no quarterback.
[/quote]
I guess Alex smith is a good quarterback as well as Tim Tebow . All three starters in Houston are good as well. You guys.....lol.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325606273' post='933183']

When have I EVER changed my stance??? We had good defense/run game prior to him..... Yet we only made the playoffs 4 times in 9 years...... And Ray and Ed were mostly in their Primes....
[/quote]
So all that means is that you needed a better game manager.

[codizzle]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1325620285' post='933571']
Haruki Nakamura: 4 years and 44 wins.
[/quote]
Oh that's a good one...
On that same note

Zibby: 4 years and 44 wins

[H8R]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325670374' post='934413']

So all that means is that you needed a better game manager.
[/quote]

4 years in and his " game managing" statistics are on par with the best ever. The most important stat ? Wins. Joe is going to be here for a long time, get over it. People expect too much, too soon. Take in to account the pieces around him offensively, and then tell me if they're top tier?

[H8R]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325669939' post='934412']

I guess Alex smith is a good quarterback as well as Tim Tebow . All three starters in Houston are good as well. You guys.....lol.
[/quote]

Right... How many of them have done it for more then one " flash in the pan season"? NONE. It's really silly to compare most guys to the great Qbs in the NFL.... Everyone already anointed Freeman , the next best thing... How'd that work out?

[Mahatma_Sloth]

JOE CAM HARBS 2012 FTW!!

[TXRaven]

[quote name='Token' timestamp='1325524200' post='931857']And some people want him gone.. I just don't understand it.[/quote]

Absolutely, I will take Joe any day.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325677464' post='934432']
4 years in and his " game managing" statistics are on par with the best ever. The most important stat ? Wins. [b]Joe is going to be here for a long time, get over it. People expect too much,[/b] too soon. Take in to account the pieces around him offensively, and then tell me if they're top tier?
[/quote]
This is fine. We want him yo stay. Until he starts playing better, expect the criticism to keep coming. That's all we're saying.

[Alexir]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1325670505' post='934414']
Oh that's a good one...
On that same note

Zibby: 4 years and 44 wins
[/quote]
Zibby has missed games because of injury! don't steal from Ruki's thunder!

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325677652' post='934433']
Right... How many of them have done it for more then one " flash in the pan season"? NONE. [b] It's really silly to compare most guys to the great Qbs in the NFL..[/b].. Everyone already anointed Freeman , the next best thing... How'd that work out?
[/quote]
So lets get something straight. You think Flacco[b] is[/b] a great quarterback? Not that he has potential to be.

[Alexir]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325692974' post='934582']
This is fine. We want him yo stay. Until he starts playing better, expect the criticism to keep coming. That's all we're saying.
[/quote]
Some people on here remind me of that "Leave Britney Alone" kid on youtube....

[H8R]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325693130' post='934586']
Zibby has missed games because of injury! don't steal from Ruki's thunder!
[/quote]


Ruki broke his ANKLE....

[Alexir]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325693485' post='934597']


Ruki broke his ANKLE....
[/quote]
true. lets exclude them! JJ, Sam and Joe!

[H8R]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325693141' post='934587']
So lets get something straight. You think Flacco[b] is[/b] a great quarterback? Not that he has potential to be.
[/quote]

no, and I can see how you might have gotten that from what I wrote ( i was typing on a train, on an iPhone). Basically, I'm saying he is NOT great but its unfair to compare him to the current greats in the game. Brady, Brees, Rogers.... he's not on that level and likely NEVER will be, these are rare talents. I dont think Joe is a rare talent. then again, neither was Bradshaw, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Naimath etc.... they still got what we're trying to get with Flacco.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325693612' post='934601']

true. lets exclude them! JJ, Sam and Joe!
[/quote]
At least someone sees how this game is supposed to be played!

[H8R]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325693962' post='934611']
At least someone sees how this game is supposed to be played!
[/quote]


Offense, Defense, Special Teams.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1325694130' post='934613']



Offense, Defense, Special Teams.
[/quote]
Ha, kind of funny to have one from each. Who would have thought? Mr Sam Koch with 44 wins in 4 years!

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325669939' post='934412']
I guess Alex smith is a good quarterback as well as Tim Tebow . All three starters in Houston are good as well. You guys.....lol.
[/quote]

Lol...this really illustrates the differences in perspective. T.J. Yates was decent for half a season. Tim Tebow was good for 7 games, and useless for 4. Alex Smith is in his 7th season, and this is basically the first "successful" one he's had.

Do you understand that we're not just talking about this season? Do you understand the concept of sample size? Larger sample sizes are more telling, obviously. We have a four year sample of solid (unspectacular to some) statistics from Flacco, as well as four straight playoff appearances and the most wins ever achieved in a QB's first four seasons.

So...go ahead and focus on one season if you want, and cry "wah, a fourth year QB shouldn't do this or that, wah." If you look at his entire career, there is no question that Flacco is at least an above average QB. That's his floor. Anyone who starts saying he's average or below average immediately loses credibility in my opinion. He can certainly improve, but I truly believe that he's underrated nationally, and it will be realized soon enough.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325697065' post='934677']


Lol...this really emphasizes the differences in perspective. T.J. Yates was decent for half a season. Tim Tebow was good for 7 games, and useless for 4. Alex Smith is in his 7th season, and this is basically the first "successful" one he's had.

Do you understand that we're not just talking about this season? Do you understand the concept of sample size? Larger sample sizes are more telling, obviously. We have a four year sample of solid (unspectacular to some) statistics from Flacco, as well as four straight playoff appearances and the most wins ever achieved in a QB's first four seasons.

So...go ahead and focus on one season if you want, and cry "wah, a fourth year QB shouldn't do this or that, wah." If you look at his entire career, there is no question that Flacco is at least an above average QB. That's his floor. Anyone who starts saying he's average or below average immediately loses credibility in my opinion. He can certainly improve, but I truly believe that he's underrated nationally, and it will be realized soon enough.
[/quote]
And the real JJ just stood up! Nicely said!

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325693167' post='934589']
Some people on here remind me of that "Leave Britney Alone" kid on youtube....
[/quote]

I think it's more of the conclusions drawn than the criticism. Most of us are fine with reasonable criticism. It's the refusal to give him his credit. He's earned some credit and some praise for what he's done in his career. People want to act like he's average and carried by the defense and Ray Rice, but looking at his stats it's clear that he produces! Sometimes he's the one making Rice look good with perfect passes, and even Rice would admit it, so don't tell me he pads his passing yards. Every QB has check down options, you don't hear about Brady padding his stats with Welker or Brees padding them with Sproles (obviously they do more than Flacco, but you don't subtract the yards that are gotten from wide open check downs). Other QBs have good defenses. But all you talk about is the negatives, as if Flacco is treated as some kind of heralded savior and it's necessary for you to balance it out. It's not! Everyone criticizes the guy, and no one claims that he's great! So excuse us for being positive and giving credit where some credit is due. You'd rather wait and hope for him to fail so you can feel vindicated or something.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325697065' post='934677']

Lol...this really emphasizes the differences in perspective. T.J. Yates was decent for half a season. Tim Tebow was good for 7 games, and useless for 4. Alex Smith is in his 7th season, and this is basically the first "successful" one he's had.

Do you understand that we're not just talking about this season? Do you understand the concept of sample size? Larger sample sizes are more telling, obviously. We have a four year sample of solid (unspectacular to some) statistics from Flacco, as well as four straight playoff appearances and the most wins ever achieved in a QB's first four seasons.

So...go ahead and focus on one season if you want, and cry "wah, a fourth year QB shouldn't do this or that, wah." If you look at his entire career, there is no question that Flacco is at least an above average QB. That's his floor. Anyone who starts saying he's average or below average immediately loses credibility in my opinion. He can certainly improve, but I truly believe that he's underrated nationally, and it will be realized soon enough.
[/quote]
This year, more than any of the rest, really seems like it could be the one that finally makes the country take notice of Flacco. My only fear is that they will do it while he's still wearing that ridiculous facial hair.

[FlaStlrfan]

Take the 4 wins and 44 victories a degree further.

I've seen the Dan Marino comparisons (same # of wins in 1st 3 seasons, including playoffs). That ignored that Joe played in more games, starting immediately as a rookie as well as ignoring that Marino went to 3 Pro Bowls, set records for TD passes and yards, won an MVP and reached a Super Bowl.

Within both Brady and Roethlisberger's 1st 4 years, both had won Super Bowls, named to the Pro Bowl and thrown for 4000 yards. Flacco's 3600 yards would have been great if it were 1998, but the standard by which he is judged now, he is in the category of an over the hill Matt Hasselbeck, barely better than rookies Dalton and Newton and in the category of the equally over rated Mark Sanchez.

Best be praying Ray Rice doesn't come down with a high ankle sprain - but either way, you'll find out why running the ball wins in the regular season, but passing is what wins in the playoffs the hard way -- again.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='FlaStlrfan' timestamp='1325702356' post='934817']
Take the 4 wins and 44 victories a degree further.

I've seen the Dan Marino comparisons (same # of wins in 1st 3 seasons, including playoffs). That ignored that Joe played in more games, starting immediately as a rookie as well as ignoring that Marino went to 3 Pro Bowls, set records for TD passes and yards, won an MVP and reached a Super Bowl.

Within both Brady and Roethlisberger's 1st 4 years, both had won Super Bowls, named to the Pro Bowl and thrown for 4000 yards. Flacco's 3600 yards would have been great if it were 1998, but the standard by which he is judged now, he is in the category of an over the hill Matt Hasselbeck, barely better than rookies Dalton and Newton and in the category of the equally over rated Mark Sanchez.

Best be praying Ray Rice doesn't come down with a high ankle sprain - but either way, you'll find out why running the ball wins in the regular season, but passing is what wins in the playoffs the hard way -- again.
[/quote]
When did you move out of Pittsburgh?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='FlaStlrfan' timestamp='1325702356' post='934817']
Take the 4 wins and 44 victories a degree further.

I've seen the Dan Marino comparisons (same # of wins in 1st 3 seasons, including playoffs). That ignored that Joe played in more games, starting immediately as a rookie as well as ignoring that Marino went to 3 Pro Bowls, set records for TD passes and yards, won an MVP and reached a Super Bowl.

Within both Brady and Roethlisberger's 1st 4 years, both had won Super Bowls, named to the Pro Bowl and thrown for 4000 yards. Flacco's 3600 yards would have been great if it were 1998, but the standard by which he is judged now, he is in the category of an over the hill Matt Hasselbeck, barely better than rookies Dalton and Newton and in the category of the equally over rated Mark Sanchez.

Best be praying Ray Rice doesn't come down with a high ankle sprain - but either way, you'll find out why running the ball wins in the regular season, but passing is what wins in the playoffs the hard way -- again.
[/quote]
Also, check your facts again big fella! Ben R has thrown over 4k yards twice and NEITHER were within his first 4 years. Also, Ben's stats (since you're bringing up QB stats as the sole variable to determine success) were horrendous his first few years! Yes, horrendous!

[beasy2487]

[quote name='FlaStlrfan' timestamp='1325702356' post='934817']
Take the 4 wins and 44 victories a degree further.

I've seen the Dan Marino comparisons (same # of wins in 1st 3 seasons, including playoffs). That ignored that Joe played in more games, starting immediately as a rookie as well as ignoring that Marino went to 3 Pro Bowls, set records for TD passes and yards, won an MVP and reached a Super Bowl.

Within both Brady and Roethlisberger's 1st 4 years, both had won Super Bowls, named to the Pro Bowl and thrown for 4000 yards. Flacco's 3600 yards would have been great if it were 1998, but the standard by which he is judged now, he is in the category of an over the hill Matt Hasselbeck, barely better than rookies Dalton and Newton and in the category of the equally over rated Mark Sanchez.

Best be praying Ray Rice doesn't come down with a high ankle sprain - but either way, you'll find out why running the ball wins in the regular season, but passing is what wins in the playoffs the hard way -- again.
[/quote]

C'mon son. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/34853_doh.GIF[/img]