Adjustments That Are Needed To Be Made For Divisional Round

[RavenDefense]

I Agree On All These Except The Lewis Part

- I Dont See Why We Run A 3-4 , Will And Mike Line Backer , If Ray Lewis Is Going To Cover RBS And Te's
- Why Cant The More Speedy McClain Stick With Te's And Rbs ?
- Why Cant Lewis Play The QB Spy As I Watched Mcclain Do All Season ?

- Makes Sense Right ?

[The Raven]

ya know, I was watching the game today, and all these complaints about getting to the line too late are just stupid. We've done much better with that recently, and it's nowhere near as bad as people imply it to be.

[codizzle]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1325473500' post='931078']
Offense needs to improve on bassically everything but the run game.

Still two big problems on D:

1. Tackle. Way to many missed tackles and sloppy play. This means you too Ed Reed. You need to stop being a lazy and wrap up. Thats atleast 5 TD you have given up this year to poor tackling/teqnique.

2. Why are the CB still play 15 yards off the line. We give teams a clean release and its way to easy to make a completeion. I dont know what Pagano is doing, but he needs to fix it.
[/quote]
5 td's huh? Please explain ur technique* on determining this statistic

[The Raven]

[quote name='RavenDefense' timestamp='1325477951' post='931237']
I Agree On All These Except The Lewis Part

- I Dont See Why We Run A 3-4 , Will And Mike Line Backer , If Ray Lewis Is Going To Cover RBS And Te's
- Why Cant The More Speedy McClain Stick With Te's And Rbs ?
- Why Cant Lewis Play The QB Spy As I Watched Mcclain Do All Season ?

- Makes Sense Right ?
[/quote]

To your first point, what? I don't get the connection between the 3-4 defense and Ray covering RBs and TEs.


Also, certain plays call for different coverages. You can't just put McClain in coverage. That would [b]severely limit [/b]anything creative you can do as far as defensive coverages and blitz packages. That would create a vanilla effect. If you never put Ray in coverage, that'd be like putting Boldin on slants every play. Predictability is bad.

[OUravensfan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325468666' post='930837']

I don't want to rely on it either, but when the run game works, ride it. You do know Rice averaged like 7 yards a carry, right? When your run game is that efficient, you run the football.
[/quote]
The yards per carry was skewed by the two big runs. He was getting stuffed for short gains on 1st and 2nd down leaving a predictable passing play on third down. Pretty typical play calling by Cam, I will acknowledge the wind, so maybe that accounted for heavy ground game. But this won't cut it against a high scoring opponent, against Houston, Pitt, or Denver tho, it would work.

[The Raven]

[quote name='OUravensfan' timestamp='1325478419' post='931256']
The yards per carry was skewed by the two big runs. He was getting stuffed for short gains on 1st and 2nd down leaving a predictable passing play on third down. Pretty typical play calling by Cam, I will acknowledge the wind, so maybe that accounted for heavy ground game. But this won't cut it against a high scoring opponent, against Houston, Pitt, or Denver tho, it would work.
[/quote]

Ummm, no. That's how averages work. Do you really think runningbacks really get 4 yards on every carry? Watch any football game. You can really watch just about any game, and the runningback will get carries of 4, 5, 2, 1 -2, 0, 20, etc... That's how running the ball works.

I think it could work against a team like NE though. Cincy has a pretty solid defense and we KILLED them on the ground. It's well understood that New England has an atrocious run defense. Based on those two facts (or opinions) we should be able to run all over the Pats. Now, we would need to be a little more efficient, and be able to throw the football, but a[i] similar [/i]gameplan could work.

[OUravensfan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325478968' post='931270']

Ummm, no. That's how averages work. Do you really think runningbacks really get 4 yards on every carry? Watch any football game. You can really watch just about any game, and the runningback will get carries of 4, 5, 2, 1 -2, 0, 20, etc... That's how running the ball works.

I think it could work against a team like NE though. Cincy has a pretty solid defense and we KILLED them on the ground. It's well understood that New England has an atrocious run defense. Based on those two facts (or opinions) we should be able to run all over the Pats. Now, we would need to be a little more efficient, and be able to throw the football, but a[i] similar [/i]gameplan could work.
[/quote]
The key to beating New England is keeping their offense off the field, so yes, running the ball effectively with Joe executing play action (which we saw so little of today) will be key to beating them. I feel good about New England because their D is so bad. But Brady getting hot is scary as well, we don't want another Chargers game. Our D kind of takes New England personal and Suggs always has good games against them, so I like our chances against them.

Vs Cleveland our RBs were getting >5 yrds on every carry, so for a game like that, run, run, run makes sense. But today's game when it was getting stuffed, Cam kept doing it, luckily it worked out for a big run in the 4th quarter. Ray Rice is incredible, and our O line had some great push on certain drives. Pass protection could be better tho.

[The Raven]

[quote name='OUravensfan' timestamp='1325480787' post='931331']
The key to beating New England is keeping their offense off the field, so yes, running the ball effectively with Joe executing play action (which we saw so little of today) will be key to beating them. I feel good about New England because their D is so bad. But Brady getting hot is scary as well, we don't want another Chargers game. Our D kind of takes New England personal and Suggs always has good games against them, so I like our chances against them.
[/quote]

To be honest, I'm only scared of their tight ends. Welker is their only good WR, but I think Webb would do well against him . Webb v.s. Welker would be a good match up. Hernandez and Gronk scare me. Massive tight ends that can move, not to mention their insane ability to break tackles.

They're just a joke defensively.

[OUravensfan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325480970' post='931337']

To be honest, I'm only scared of their tight ends. Welker is their only good WR, but I think Webb would do well against him . Webb v.s. Welker would be a good match up. Hernandez and Gronk scare me. Massive tight ends that can move, not to mention their insane ability to break tackles.

They're just a joke defensively.
[/quote]
Our D should expect a one dimensional game. Their TEs are very slow however, so an effective pass rush on Brady (who is not good under pressure) can eliminate some of their route running ability. A lot of NE routes rely on Brady's superb amount of time he gets to throw and survey the field. It's kind of sickening how much time he gets.

[ravensdfan]

Defend Cam all you want but the fact is this:

Run, run, pass, drop, punt. Repeat. Will not get it done in the playoffs. Take away that 70 yd break away and Rice had like 26 yds on 11 carries. Cam got lucky. Bottom line. Flacco only had one pass affected by the wind. Not saying we could have gone deep all game but no reason we could not have done some short drops to mix it up some. Cam was beyond predictable this game. Wear out our D like this in the playoffs and we are done.

And I still maintain that this was Cam's way of punishing Joe for his comments.

[Alexir]

The fact Ray was covering a wideout was more of a scheme problem then a coverage problem.

[tctony]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1325467553' post='930760']
I don't see what people are talking about with his coverage. He's the best LB we have in coverage. He's no cornerback but for a linebacker I think he's still one of the better coverers.

What we need to do is get Kruger and McPhee involved early and often. We have to get sacks from the beginning of the game, and pressure QBs early. Not to mention give our starters a rest so they can go the whole game without getting winded.
[/quote]

Ray got beat pretty badly today. Bengals would've had a TD early on but Dalton over threw a wide open RB. The guy made Ray look foolish.

[codizzle]

[quote name='OUravensfan' timestamp='1325481059' post='931342']

Our D should expect a one dimensional game. Their TEs are very slow however, so an effective pass rush on Brady (who is not good under pressure) can eliminate some of their route running ability. A lot of NE routes rely on Brady's superb amount of time he gets to throw and survey the field. It's kind of sickening how much time he gets.
[/quote]
Hernandez is not slow at all.. And gronk isn't that slow either

[Sizzlebshu]

The main things that have to happen is our offense has to play consistently and our defense has to start playing dominantly. I have not seen that from this defense in a few games now. Our defense is playing well but I think it is obvious we aren't the defensive juggernauts that we were in the beginning of the season. We need to get back to pressuring the qb and shutting down the run and forcing the throw so our pass rush can be effective. We have to shut down the run on the level of the 49ers if we want to keep our D off the field and get it off fast.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1325482498' post='931380']
Defend Cam all you want but the fact is this:

Run, run, pass, drop, punt. Repeat. Will not get it done in the playoffs. Take away that 70 yd break away and Rice had like 26 yds on 11 carries. Cam got lucky. Bottom line. Flacco only had one pass affected by the wind. Not saying we could have gone deep all game but no reason we could not have done some short drops to mix it up some. Cam was beyond predictable this game. Wear out our D like this in the playoffs and we are done.

And I still maintain that this was Cam's way of punishing Joe for his comments.
[/quote]

Some parts of this post couldn't be further from the truth.

On Rice's average, I don't know why y'all don't understand this, but thats just how running it works. No one gets 4 yards every carry. No one. Watch Foster, CJ, or MJD. They don't get 4 yards every carry. They get 1, 2, 5, 1, 0, -2, 20 etc. Thats how it works. Watch any runningback, thats how it works. So to say "If you take out this run here" is just stupid. That's why its called an average. Also, that's exactly why you run the ball. To get that big run.

To say Cam got lucky for Rice's 51 and 70 yarder is stupid as well. That's like saying Payton got lucky Brees threw a 50 and 70 yard TD. It's football, and honestly, when it comes to running the ball, there's not much luck involved. When passing, you can get lucky with a blown coverage, but when your running the ball your just beating the balls off the defense, and there isn't any luck involved in punding away at a defense.

One pass affected by the wind? I don't think anyone can prove otherwise but to say that only 1 pass was affected by the wind... Really?

And wearing out the defense? I'm fairly positive we won time of possession. Not much more the offense can do to keep the D fresh than win TOP. I can't find the stat to prove it, but I'm positive we won TOP.

[OUravensfan]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1325484965' post='931447']
Hernandez is not slow at all.. And gronk isn't that slow either
[/quote]

It all comes down to getting to Brady and disrupting his timing. When you watch their games, when he has to get rid of the ball quickly, his balls are usually low and inaccurate or his receivers come out of their breaks too late. However, when he gets time, (since they always send 4 or 5) he always finds the open receiver. Their offense is efficient, instead of running the ball, they can throw a 3 yrd pass on first down, letting Brady get into a rhythm. While this is an obvious statement, beating them will inovlve us keeping Brady off the field with long sustained drive for TDs, not FGs. And when Brady does get on the field, frustrate the hell out of him, he hates when guys get crowded around his feet, and then he makes mistakes. I would like this game to be Flacco's coming out party, as he torches NEs secondary and beats Brady again in the playoffs (granted the first one wasn't really him, but he did make a big throw to Clayton in that game). I think you'll get more and more people jumping on your Flacco bandwaggon in your sig if he out "Bradys" Brady.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Ravens1990' timestamp='1325484660' post='931442']

Ray got beat pretty badly today. Bengals would've had a TD early on but Dalton over threw a wide open RB. The guy made Ray look foolish.
[/quote]

What do you expect? Any LB would get beat on coverage by a RB.

[OUravensfan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325488006' post='931490']

Some parts of this post couldn't be further from the truth.

On Rice's average, I don't know why y'all don't understand this, but thats just how running it works. No one gets 4 yards every carry. No one. Watch Foster, CJ, or MJD. They don't get 4 yards every carry. They get 1, 2, 5, 1, 0, -2, 20 etc. Thats how it works. Watch any runningback, thats how it works. So to say "If you take out this run here" is just stupid. That's why its called an average. Also, that's exactly why you run the ball. To get that big run.

To say Cam got lucky for Rice's 51 and 70 yarder is stupid as well. That's like saying Payton got lucky Brees threw a 50 and 70 yard TD. It's football, and honestly, when it comes to running the ball, there's not much luck involved. When passing, you can get lucky with a blown coverage, but when your running the ball your just beating the balls off the defense, and there isn't any luck involved in punding away at a defense.

One pass affected by the wind? I don't think anyone can prove otherwise but to say that only 1 pass was affected by the wind... Really?

And wearing out the defense? I'm fairly positive we won time of possession. Not much more the offense can do to keep the D fresh than win TOP. I can't find the stat to prove it, but I'm positive we won TOP.
[/quote]

No we didn't, and it was because Cam's terrible, predicable play calling. Bengals also had more first downs with 19 to our 15. Ray Rice is incredible, and our O-line imposed their will on those big running plays, however, the running game constantly put us in obvious passing 3rd downs which led to 3 and outs. During the 1st Cleveland game, it made sense to go run, run, run because every run was getting 5 or more yrds. But this game, run, run, would put us in 3rd and 5 a lot which gave Cincy's offense too many chances. Do we really want to give NE's offense that many chances?


Time of Possession
Bal 29:26
Cin 30:34

For this game, the wind probably played a factor into our lack of passing attempts but when we did throw it worked, Joe only had 4 incompletions and that one pass to Lee Evans should have been a TD if he would just for the life of god step up and make a play.

[codizzle]

[quote name='OUravensfan' timestamp='1325488036' post='931491']


It all comes down to getting to Brady and disrupting his timing. When you watch their games, when he has to get rid of the ball quickly, his balls are usually low and inaccurate or his receivers come out of their breaks too late. However, when he gets time, (since they always send 4 or 5) he always finds the open receiver. Their offense is efficient, instead of running the ball, they can throw a 3 yrd pass on first down, letting Brady get into a rhythm. While this is an obvious statement, beating them will inovlve us keeping Brady off the field with long sustained drive for TDs, not FGs. And when Brady does get on the field, frustrate the hell out of him, he hates when guys get crowded around his feet, and then he makes mistakes. I would like this game to be Flacco's coming out party, as he torches NEs secondary and beats Brady again in the playoffs (granted the first one wasn't really him, but he did make a big throw to Clayton in that game). I think you'll get more and more people jumping on your Flacco bandwaggon in your sig if he out "Bradys" Brady.
[/quote]
Oh I completely agree with you lol I was just saying Hernandez isn't slow ha

[The Raven]

[quote name='OUravensfan' timestamp='1325488589' post='931499']

No we didn't, and it was because Cam's terrible, predicable play calling. Bengals also had more first downs with 19 to our 15. Ray Rice is incredible, and our O-line imposed their will on those big running plays, however, the running game constantly put us in obvious passing 3rd downs which led to 3 and outs. During the 1st Cleveland game, it made sense to go run, run, run because every run was getting 5 or more yrds. But this game, run, run, would put us in 3rd and 5 a lot which gave Cincy's offense too many chances. Do we really want to give NE's offense that many chances?


Time of Possession
Bal 29:26
Cin 30:34
[/quote]

Okay, well 24 more seconds? Is 24 seconds "wearing down our defense"?

[gabefergy]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325488676' post='931502']

Okay, well 24 more seconds? Is 24 seconds "wearing down our defense"?
[/quote]
Also consider we had two very fast scoring drives when Ray broke off those runs. I think Cam called a very good game today. He stuck with the run and it worked. We dont have the WR corps with Q out to consistently move the chains. Our "spread" offense still has 2 TEs prominently involved, and while that causes match-up problems against some teams it wont always work.

[OUravensfan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325488676' post='931502']

Okay, well 24 more seconds? Is 24 seconds "wearing down our defense"?
[/quote]
No, but on that drive if Suggs doesn't make that play, I shudder to think what this game may have been, our D was starting to allow Benson to get going as a result of fatigue due to lack of rest. Suggs made the big play, once again, and we will need those in the playoffs. Dalton just wasn't sharp this game, he missed 2 potential TD passes today.

Lets put this game behind us, its never pretty when we play the Bengals. But I would love to expose NE in the playoffs, show the NFL that you need more than a prolific offense to succeed in the playoffs.

[wayne]

[quote name='OUravensfan' timestamp='1325489647' post='931510']
No, [b]but on that drive if Suggs doesn't make that play, I shudder to think what this game may have been[/b], our D was starting to allow Benson to get going as a result of fatigue due to lack of rest. Suggs made the big play, once again, and we will need those in the playoffs. Dalton just wasn't sharp this game, he missed 2 potential TD passes today.

Lets put this game behind us, its never pretty when we play the Bengals. But I would love to expose NE in the playoffs, show the NFL that you need more than a prolific offense to succeed in the playoffs.
[/quote]

Sorry, you can't use that type of logic when it comes to sports. If Suggs wouldn't have forced the fumble, if Rice wouldn't have broke those long runs, if Michael Jordan would have neva stripped Karl Malone in Game 6 of the NBA Finals. if Paxson would have neva hit that 3 in the Finals when they played the Suns, if Big Ben wouldn't have neva bought that extra second or two in the pocket....... see where I'm going with this? You just can't use that logic b/c if you take away a big play out of every game in every sport, of course the game would be different but during the course of any game, both teams or players can use that logic so it nullifies it.

Also, The Raven is perfectly right, that's how running the ball mostly works. Every now and then a RB would literally get big yardage on most of his run plays but that's not the norm!

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325488006' post='931490']

Some parts of this post couldn't be further from the truth.

On Rice's average, I don't know why y'all don't understand this, but thats just how running it works. No one gets 4 yards every carry. No one. Watch Foster, CJ, or MJD. They don't get 4 yards every carry. They get 1, 2, 5, 1, 0, -2, 20 etc. Thats how it works. Watch any runningback, thats how it works. So to say "If you take out this run here" is just stupid. That's why its called an average. Also, that's exactly why you run the ball. To get that big run.

To say Cam got lucky for Rice's 51 and 70 yarder is stupid as well. That's like saying Payton got lucky Brees threw a 50 and 70 yard TD. It's football, and honestly, when it comes to running the ball, there's not much luck involved. When passing, you can get lucky with a blown coverage, but when your running the ball your just beating the balls off the defense, and there isn't any luck involved in punding away at a defense.

One pass affected by the wind? I don't think anyone can prove otherwise but to say that only 1 pass was affected by the wind... Really?

And wearing out the defense? I'm fairly positive we won time of possession. Not much more the offense can do to keep the D fresh than win TOP. I can't find the stat to prove it, but I'm positive we won TOP.
[/quote]

Actually , we didn't win TOP though for the full game it is only a 1 minute difference. There isn't anything up yet that breaks it down by quarter, unless I sit and add it up and I'm not doing that right now lol I would venture a guess though that we lost TOP by significantly more than a minute in the 3rd quarter because all we did was hand off the ball on first and second down. I'm sorry, this "stay committed to the run" you keep on pushing is NOT going to win us playoff games. Not the way Cam calls it. Not saying that Rice shouldn't get his touches, however, run,run, pass, drop, punt for every single offensive series will make us one and done.

[The Prestige]

I stick by my ranking of Cam Cameron as about 8th among playcallers in the NFL.

That said, I wanted Randy Moss and I wanted them to go more aggressive in the Bengals game.

It's usually about one drive every game in which the Ravens have the lead where Cam calls a run against an 8-man front, then draws up a run play again into jaws of the defense, then it's 50/50 whether he lets Joe try to pick up the first down or has him do a low-percentage pass play.

I believe in scoring big and to not worry about clock until you are 17 or more in front. Flacco is pretty good in shotgun. Why not a shotgun, max protect where someone stays in to block and Pitta chips and goes out into the flat.

One thing worth noting is how Ricky Williams has done what you would expect a big running back to do: he's become stronger as the season progresses. Williams averaged at least 4.14 yards per carry 3 times in the first 9 games, 6 times in the last 7.

[The Raven]

[quote name='OUravensfan' timestamp='1325489647' post='931510']
No, but on that drive [b]if Suggs doesn't make that play[/b], I shudder to think what this game may have been, our D was starting to allow Benson to get going as a result of fatigue due to lack of rest. Suggs made the big play, once again, and we will need those in the playoffs. Dalton just wasn't sharp this game, he missed 2 potential TD passes today.

Lets put this game behind us, its never pretty when we play the Bengals. But I would love to expose NE in the playoffs, show the NFL that you need more than a prolific offense to succeed in the playoffs.
[/quote]

Yeah, but if Suggs doesn't break every single rule of playing dline at once that TD run never happens and we're not in such a hard spot. He broke almost every rule in that play. Didn't read his keys, he shot inside, he didn't set the edge, he didn't keep his outside shoulder free, he didn't play down the line, etc. Suggs better have made that play, he put us in that hole.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1325501296' post='931565']

Actually , we didn't win TOP though for the full game it is only a 1 minute difference. There isn't anything up yet that breaks it down by quarter, unless I sit and add it up and I'm not doing that right now lol I would venture a guess though that we lost TOP by significantly more than a minute in the 3rd quarter because all we did was hand off the ball on first and second down. I'm sorry, this "stay committed to the run" you keep on pushing is NOT going to win us playoff games. Not the way Cam calls it. Not saying that Rice shouldn't get his touches, however, run,run, pass, drop, punt for every single offensive series will make us one and done.
[/quote]


This "stay commited to the run" got the Jets to the AFCCG 2 years in a row. It's not going to win a superbowl, but it CAN get you through the postseason. Obviously we're gonna need a more balanced attack for the postseason, and I have NEVER said that we can ride this gameplan all through the postseason. We're gonna need to pass it more. I know this.