Am I The Only 1 That Is Sick Of How Many Carries Rice Should Have..

[K-Dog]

My opinion is, offense is not like baking a cake. ( stay with me on this ) (its a struggle I know, but if you try you can understand )

If you do this, this and this and add that, that and that, you get a cake. (real cake is slightly more complex, work with me please)

Offense football is not the same. Just because Rice gets 20 carries doesnt mean we win.
Yardage is different that carries. Yes carries means yards yes I know, but we we are playing a stellar D and Ray is getting two yards a carry its not going to be a pretty day. With that in mind if we are playing a team with swiss cheese for a secondary we dang well better be taking full advantage of that. If Rice gets twenty carries but has a mere 18 yards to show for it, and Joe is hitting his receivers all day (yes I know, I am ATTEMPTING to make a point ) for ten and twenty yards a pop, then let Rice sit.
If we find something that works, just keep doing that until they stop us. Easy as that.

*sigh
All that said its very very rare when Rice & Williams is not getting it done. But some times it does happen. A pass MOST of the time can move a ball farther in less time than a running play. If we are down by ten or more late in the fourth it makes perfect sense to me to get a little pass happy, but still keeping the run to keep the defense honest.

Some times mostly run just wont get the job done, but with us and our team MOST of the times it does. Some times you just have to change the balance. Depends on the circumstances.
Its not a magic formula. Magic, no. But it is a decent combination.
Its more about yards that carries is what I am saying.

[Militant X 1]

here is the "logic" behind Ray Rice getting a certain amount of carries imo. in the passing game the O-linemen has to drop back and protect and "try" to hold off the defender. but in the running game those same O-linemen now, get to become more aggressive and "push back" or "drive through" the defenders. O-linemen would rather run the ball than pass! sure, we need to throw the ball to keep the defense honest but when a team has a Ray Rice, Ricky Williams and Vonta Leach in the backfield? maaaan! pound the rock! lol!

P.S. if i am not mistaken, in the last 2-3 games...on the first play of the game...a running play....Ray Rice broke out with big yards.

~Mili

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1325030505' post='924580']
My opinion is, offense is not like baking a cake. ( stay with me on this ) (its a struggle I know, but if you try you can understand )

If you do this, this and this and add that, that and that, you get a cake. (real cake is slightly more complex, work with me please)

Offense football is not the same. Just because Rice gets 20 carries doesnt mean we win.
Yardage is different that carries. Yes carries means yards yes I know, but we we are playing a stellar D and Ray is getting two yards a carry its not going to be a pretty day. With that in mind if we are playing a team with swiss cheese for a secondary we dang well better be taking full advantage of that. If Rice gets twenty carries but has a mere 18 yards to show for it, and Joe is hitting his receivers all day (yes I know, I am ATTEMPTING to make a point ) for ten and twenty yards a pop, then let Rice sit.
If we find something that works, just keep doing that until they stop us. Easy as that.

*sigh
All that said its very very rare when Rice & Williams is not getting it done. But some times it does happen. A pass MOST of the time can move a ball farther in less time than a running play. If we are down by ten or more late in the fourth it makes perfect sense to me to get a little pass happy, but still keeping the run to keep the defense honest.

Some times mostly run just wont get the job done, but with us and our team MOST of the times it does. Some times you just have to change the balance. Depends on the circumstances.
Its not a magic formula. Magic, no. But it is a decent combination.
Its more about yards that carries is what I am saying.
[/quote]

But what running consistently does allow you to do is run play-action. And I think one of Flacco's biggest strengths is his ability to work the play-action passing game.

This is from an article written just before the second Steelers game:

" Ravens quarterback [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11252"]Joe Flacco[/url] has proven himself to be rather adept at play-action passing. He's completed 65.3 percent of his play-action passes, with nine touchdowns and only one interception. "

[url="http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/tag/_/name/joe-flacco/count/16"]http://espn.go.com/b...flacco/count/16[/url]

[rayrayven]

OK - say you're an opposing LB/DB. You have the choice of dropping back in pass coverage 30 times or running up to the line and getting hit in the chest by Vonta Leach and the legs by shin missile Ray Rice. Believe me getting pounded by a running game in NFL isn't fun like it was in high school where everybody is 185 and slow. Ray in particular is a killer on the legs. Big East teams used to dread him.

[Dudeman]

The run game is the double edged sword of the NFL. Now pundits/experts want to put a label on everything, so in order to have an "identity" on offense the team needs to be either run or pass heavy. Yet if you ask any offensive coordinator they will say balance is the key. Furthermore, the latest trend seems to be leaning towards a pass heavy approach. But no-one can honestly explain if it's the run game that sets up the pass, or the passing game that sets up the run. Either way it's a rhetorical argument at best, or a long winded drawn out exercise in frustration at worst.

Basically, seems to me that you can either be a jack of all trades (yet a master of none) or you can be one-dimensional. One dimensional seems to be the crowd pleaser. Every now and then you run into the mis-match but for the most part you can simply out score your opponent. However, I enjoy the good old fashioned way when the game of football is played at the line of scrimmage.

Either way that's what makes the NFL the most exciting sport in my opinion. Every team seems built with an emphasis on a different phase of the game. Whether they are meant to be built the way they are in the end is irrelevant. What matters is that we get entertained and can see say we saw when this team did that, or that player did this.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Dudeman' timestamp='1325035482' post='924682']
The run game is the double edged sword of the NFL. Now pundits/experts want to put a label on everything, so in order to have an "identity" on offense the team needs to be either run or pass heavy. Yet if you ask any offensive coordinator they will say balance is the key. Yet the latest trend seems to be leaning towards a pass heavy approach. But no-one can honestly explain if it's the run game that sets up the pass, or the passing game that sets up the run. Either way it's a rhetorical argument at best, or a long winded drawn out exercise in frustration at worst.

Basically, seems to me that you can either be a jack of all trades (yet a master of none) or you can be one-dimensional. One dimensional seems to be the crowd pleaser. Every now and then you run into the mis-match but for the most part you can simply out score your opponent. However, I enjoy the good old fashioned game of football when it's played at the line of scrimmage.

Either way that's what makes the NFL the most exciting sport in my opinion. Every team seems built with an emphasis on a different phase of the game. Whether they are meant to be built the way they are in the end is irrelevant.
[/quote]

I say the bottom line is you play to your strengths. Teams like the Patriots, Saints, Packers, etc. have hall of fame caliber veteran quarterbacks that have total command of their offenses and tremendous WR corps. None of them have elite running backs, but they have serviceable ones. And all of them rely mainly on the short passing game to move the football. A team like the Ravens has an elite running back, a great defense that can really create turnovers, and a quarterback and WRs that can make big plays downfield, but can also help keep TOP if the OC calls the right plays. Plus, like I said, Flacco is not so good at creating an offense, but one of the best in the league at running play action if he gets a strong running game behind him. We have the ability to do that most of the time, but in many games this season we haven't. Why, IDK, but I'd say a lot falls on the offensive coordinator and his belief that as soon as you get behind in a game, even by 1 point, the solution is to pass like crazy until you score and regain the lead.

[Dudeman]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325035809' post='924689']

I say the bottom line is you play to your strengths. Teams like the Patriots, Saints, Packers, etc. have hall of fame caliber veteran quarterbacks that have total command of their offenses and tremendous WR corps. None of them have elite running backs, but they have serviceable ones. And all of them rely mainly on the short passing game to move the football. A team like the Ravens has an elite running back, a great defense that can really create turnovers, and a quarterback and WRs that can make big plays downfield, but can also help keep TOP if the OC calls the right plays. Plus, like I said, Flacco is not so good at creating an offense, but one of the best in the league at running play action if he gets a strong running game behind him. We have the ability to do that most of the time, but in many games this season we haven't. Why, IDK, but I'd say a lot falls on the offensive coordinator and his belief that as soon as you get behind in a game, even by 1 point, the solution is to pass like crazy until you score and regain the lead.
[/quote]

I totally agree, and I wish I had a better explanation of why we do the things we do. Maybe it's partly experimental? We have had some shuffling of personnel. But it seems like we are either damned if we do or damned if we don't sometimes. A good example of this is when Matt Schaub threw a pick to end the game against the Raiders. Most people would have said he should have ran the ball in, yet if he got tackled short then they would have said he should have passed. Again, damned if you do, or damned if you don't sometimes.

[D_UP]

So you mean don't give the ball to our best player on offense? and do what? Throw the ball 50 times to rookie wideouts and 2nd year tightends. I seen that before and I'll pass no pun intended.

[Tank 92]

It just comes down to running the play that that the defense does not expect you to call, whether it be a pass or a run. Obviously, that gives the best chance for success. Get RR and Ricky their touches, but it doesn't necessarily have to be pounding into the line behind Vonta. Got to keep em' guessing!

I think this year's squad has the talents, abilities and balance to follow this simple formula. We're not the "Jamal Lewis" Ravens anymore!

[K-Dog]

I miss Jamal