Time To Start Pitta

[The Raven]

[quote name='SanDiegan Raven' timestamp='1324935222' post='923369']
Alright guys hit the breaks on the Pitta over Dickson talks. Let's not forget Dickson kept us in the Seattle game. I hope you're not the same people that wanted to get rid of Torrey because of a few drops in pre-season. Obviously, drops are a concern accross the board, but as the writer suggests he's singling out Dickson. Sorry guys, I'm not ready to drop Dickson. Pitta simply reminds us of Heap because of the way he looks and plays but he is not Heap. Heap cannot be replaced. However, much like the Patriots we can have two successful TEs.

Catching the ball is only part of the equation. If you can't get open you can't catch squat. I think we have two outstanding TEs and one has just suffered a case of the drops. He'll refocus and be good to go. We'll need them both! You don't leave home without your AMEX but you don't close your VISA because you want to use your AMEX. It's bad for your credit.
[/quote]

Agreed, but how do you figure that Pitta wouldn't have done as well or better in the Seattle game? And, Pitta is usually open. And when he is tightly covered, he's great at playing the ball and making tough catches. I sometimes think about having a base 22 offense. (2 TEs/2RBs) Lol.

[True]

[quote name='Rogerdat' timestamp='1324936079' post='923383']
Okay, can we please end the stereotyping? Just because Pitta is white does not mean he is not as fast, faster or as athletic or more athletic than Dickson. First of all because Dickson is Cam's guy Pitta does not get the routes afforded Dickson, nor does Cam make him Flacco's first target as much as he does Dickson. As most of you can see Pitta only gets the underneath routes and Dickson gets the underneath and vertical routes. I base my post and my questioning of Cam's selection of first team tight end on the following information taken from unbiased combine results and the fact Pitta runs better routes and doesn't drop the ball.
[/quote]

Ed Dickson is Cam's guy? Really? I thought I heard everything [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/229031_rofl.gif[/img]

Pitta isn't starting because it's simple: He is not good at the 3 point stance and can't play the traditional TE that calls for blocking DEs and LBs--that's the type of physical ability that separates the two TEs. The Ravens do not run the same offense as BYU and is more run based which calls for having good blocking receivers.

Aside from Bleacher Report garbage, he was almost never in the top 100 prospects. He is what many draft pundits said he would be currently in the NFL - a situational receiver going in the late rounds (4th).

Pitta isn't perfect either and the theory that because he gets more snaps he will make the passing game better is crazy. You have to take the good with the bad and everything isn't going to be peachy. You want the run game to suffer just because a certain player can catch more passes? Pitta starting at the traditional TE is not going to make the offense better....

Seriously this Dickson hate is getting out of control . Ozzie (a HOF TE himself...) drafted him a round higher for a reason. He played backup and filled in for Todd Heap last year and has started all the games this year for a reason. He drops passes and now he should lose his starting job in only his second year? I guess Ricky Williams and LaQuan Williams should start as well huh?

[flynismo]

[quote name='MLGWL20' timestamp='1324932392' post='923330']

So we should bench Torrey Smith and re-sign Derrick Mason.

Yes Ed has drops but so does Q and Torrey

You guys around here act like Pitta has the greatest hands ever like hes Larry Fitz. He has good hands but he hasnt been thrown at alot so we dont really know how good they really are. What if he drops 2 balls this sunday then what?

I think Dickson is the clear #1 and Pitta is a great #2
[/quote]

What has Dickson done to earn the "clear #1" title?

[keebl3rs]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1324938018' post='923417']

What has Dickson done to earn the "clear #1" title?
[/quote]

He gets "open" in red zone situations. But I'm not arguing with you as I personally think they both bring pwnage to the team.

[ravensdfan]

Dickson and Pitta are both very good TEs.

Pitta has the better hands (less drops by far) and also seems to win his match ups more often. Dickson has more speed but has been drop prone of late.

Pitta just seems to have more fight. He reminds me very much of a young and healthy Todd Heap.

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1324937691' post='923412']

Ed Dickson is Cam's guy? Really? I thought I heard everything [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/229031_rofl.gif[/img]

Pitta isn't starting because it's simple: He is not good at the 3 point stance and can't play the traditional TE that calls for blocking DEs and LBs--that's the type of physical ability that separates the two TEs. The Ravens do not run the same offense as BYU and is more run based which calls for having good blocking receivers.

Aside from Bleacher Report garbage, he was almost never in the top 100 prospects. He is what many draft pundits said he would be currently in the NFL - a situational receiver going in the late rounds (4th).

Pitta isn't perfect either and the theory that because he gets more snaps he will make the passing game better is crazy. You have to take the good with the bad and everything isn't going to be peachy. You want the run game to suffer just because a certain player can catch more passes? Pitta starting at the traditional TE is not going to make the offense better....

[b]Seriously this Dickson hate is getting out of control .[/b] Ozzie (a HOF TE himself...) drafted him a round higher for a reason. He played backup and filled in for Todd Heap last year and has started all the games this year for a reason. He drops passes and now he should lose his starting job in only his second year? I guess Ricky Williams and LaQuan Williams should start as well huh?
[/quote]

Would you please direct me to the posts that illustrate the "out of control" Dickson hate ?

They must be everywhere but I'm having trouble spotting them.

[The Raven]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1324937691' post='923412']

Ed Dickson is Cam's guy? Really? I thought I heard everything [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/229031_rofl.gif[/img]

Pitta isn't starting because it's simple: He is not good at the 3 point stance and can't play the traditional TE that calls for blocking DEs and LBs--that's the type of physical ability that separates the two TEs. The Ravens do not run the same offense as BYU and is more run based which calls for having good blocking receivers.


[b]What? Are you suggesting that Dickson is sigificantly better at blocking? He's definitely not much better.[/b]

Aside from Bleacher Report garbage, he was almost never in the top 100 prospects. He is what many draft pundits said he would be currently in the NFL - a situational receiver going in the late rounds (4th).

[b]Okay, so? He was never in the top 100 prospects. Big whoop de doo. Neither was Tom Brady. Good try.[/b]

Pitta isn't perfect either and the theory that because he gets more snaps he will make the passing game better is crazy. You have to take the good with the bad and everything isn't going to be peachy. You want the run game to suffer just because a certain player can catch more passes? Pitta starting at the traditional TE is not going to make the offense better....

[b]How do YOU know the run game WILL suffer? There is a reason we can't run outside efficiently. Ed. Dickson. Watch the game, and tell me that he's truly capable of blocking DE's and OLB's. I can't think of all the times I watched someone blow him up at the point of attack and tackle Rice for a loss.[/b]

Seriously this Dickson hate is getting out of control . Ozzie (a HOF TE himself...) drafted him a round higher for a reason. He played backup and filled in for Todd Heap last year and has started all the games this year for a reason. He drops passes and now he should lose his starting job in only his second year? I guess Ricky Williams and LaQuan Williams should start as well huh?

[b]No one's hating, the guy just has VERY unreliable hands. HE was drafted higher because he has more upside and was more coveted by other teams. Andre Smith was drafted ahead of Mike Oher, and Sebastian Vollmer, so that renders your argument useless too. And yes, he should. When you don't catch clutch 3rd down catches you cost the offense. Immediately after one of his two drops the other day, Cribbs took the punt to the house. And no, Ricky and Laquan shouldn't start. They have also had their fair share of drops.[/b]
[/quote]

[omar586]

agreed we need to give American Express more snaps, after watching dickson drops,

[True]

[quote name='BenDufusberger' timestamp='1324938304' post='923421']

Would you please direct me to the posts that illustrate the "out of control" Dickson hate ?

They must be everywhere but I'm having trouble spotting them.
[/quote]
I am not one to single out people for their opinions and thus did not specify anyone and will not do so. You can make your own assessments because it's your opinion. Sorry not in my nature..

[Ravenslifer]

I don't see why it's a slight on Dickson to start Pitta more. Both are young players that have a lot to learn. Dickson's hands and concentration can be improved. But what we need right now is the guy that Joe Flacco trusts more out on the field as much as possible, and I think it's clear that that guy is Pitta over Dickson this season. Things may change next season. I mean, Dickson is what, 24? Oh my gosh, he's so old that if he doesn't start this season he never will. Come on, both of these guys are the future of this team. Unfortunately for Ed what I think this team, and Joe especially, needs more is the guys with the best hands on the field, and outside of Boldin I think Pitta has the best hands on the team. Dickson still needs to get reps, especially in the playoffs, but if it's a set with one tight end on the field, that tight end should be the guy that Joe knows will get him a first down, and it seems to me that right now that guy is Pitta.

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1324938673' post='923426']
I am not one to single out people for their opinions and thus did not specify anyone and will not do so. You can make your own assessments because it's your opinion. Sorry not in my nature..
[/quote]

Well , I've read the entire thread , and the only thing that I could possibly categorize as "hate" would be the post that played the race card , suggesting that those who prefer Pitta do so only because he's white , which is ludicrous. Reams of stats have been presented supporting the increased use of Pitta , and stats aren't racially biased , to my knowledge.

So , by my count , Pitta hate - 1 post , Dickson hate - zero.

Not "out of control" Dickson hate , by any measure.

[True]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324938555' post='923424']
What? Are you suggesting that Dickson is sigificantly better at blocking? He's definitely not much better.[/quote]

I'm just going by how the Ravens have showcased. He's started all the games this year at the traditional TE so I would say yes he is the better blocker. Is he way better? No, but you want your best guys out there.

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324938555' post='923424']
Okay, so? He was never in the top 11 prospects. Big whoop de doo. Neither was Tom Brady. Good try.[/quote]

Well yeah that's my point. He was projected to be a situation receiver in the NFL. He's done that so far but the perception that he should start will take away from the fact that he can't execute in the 3point stance as good as Ed. He isn't a secret treasure on the bench, he has to contribute on all facets of the game and that takes time.

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324938555' post='923424']
How do YOU know the run game WILL suffer? There is a reason we can't run outside efficiently. Ed. Dickson. Watch the game, and tell me that he's truly capable of blocking DE's and OLB's. I can't think of all the times I watched someone blow him up at the point of attack and tackle Rice for a loss. [/quote]

Again going by what the Ravens have shown me--Ed gets the most snaps at the traditional TE spot and has started all the games this year. Just because I said he's a better blocker doesn't mean I think he's all world. Both of the guys are pretty bad and have to get better. Dickson just has the edge due to experience of more playing time leading me to believe the Ravens trust him in that role.

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324938555' post='923424']
No one's hating, the guy just has VERY unreliable hands. HE was drafted higher because he has more upside and was more coveted by other teams. Andre Smith was drafted ahead of Mike Oher, and Sebastian Vollmer, so that renders your argument useless too. And yes, he should. When you don't catch clutch 3rd down catches you cost the offense. Immediately after one of his two drops the other day, Cribbs took the punt to the house. And no, Ricky and Laquan shouldn't start. They have also had their fair share of drops. [/quote]

Being drafted higher was my way of saying that the Ravens believe he would be the eventual TE replacement for Todd Heap which is what it turned out to be considering his play time.

Very unreliable is harsh considering that the other receivers like Boldin and Smith have had their shares of drops. This is a team problem and can be fixed. Dropping balls has nothing to do with starting at TE because again they have to line up in the trenches which isn't Pitta's strong suit. Can he get better? I hope so because I want both of em to be complete TEs.

I do not like the notion of one being better than the other because they are still in their second years in the NFL and had limited playing time in their rookie years (I think Pitta had one catch last year). Ed Dickson has to get better at catching the ball and Pitta has to get better at blocking. Maybe they can start teaching one another?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1324939706' post='923440']

I'm just going by how the Ravens have showcased. He's started all the games this year at the traditional TE so I would say yes he is the better blocker. Is he way better? No, but you want your best guys out there.



Well yeah that's my point. He was projected to be a situation receiver in the NFL. He's done that so far but the perception that he should start will take away from the fact that he can't execute in the 3point stance as good as Ed. He isn't a secret treasure on the bench, he has to contribute on all facets of the game and that takes time.



Again going by what the Ravens have shown me--Ed gets the most snaps at the traditional TE spot and has started all the games this year. Just because I said he's a better blocker doesn't mean I think he's all world. Both of the guys are pretty bad and have to get better. Dickson just has the edge due to experience of more playing time leading me to believe the Ravens trust him in that role.



Being drafted higher was my way of saying that the Ravens believe he would be the eventual TE replacement for Todd Heap which is what it turned out to be considering his play time.

Very unreliable is harsh considering that the other receivers like Boldin and Smith have had their shares of drops. This is a team problem and can be fixed. Dropping balls has nothing to do with starting at TE because again they have to line up in the trenches which isn't Pitta's strong suit. Can he get better? I hope so because I want both of em to be complete TEs.

I do not like the notion of one being better than the other because they are still in their second years in the NFL and had limited playing time in their rookie years (I think Pitta had one catch last year). Ed Dickson has to get better at catching the ball and Pitta has to get better at blocking. Maybe they can start teaching one another?
[/quote]

I think it took Heap an entire season (and possibly some of the next) to become the blocking TE he was when he left here. Both of these guys have talent, we are very very lucky as a team to have them both. Dickson has the speed, which is why he gets open more in the red zone and the end zone. Pitta, on the other hand, has better hands (at least right now) and seems to make those clutch catches more often. At least on 3rd down situations, I would like to see Pitta in more often than Dickson right now.

[The Raven]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1324939706' post='923440']

I'm just going by how the Ravens have showcased. He's started all the games this year at the traditional TE so I would say yes he is the better blocker. Is he way better? No, but you want your best guys out there.



Well yeah that's my point. He was projected to be a situation receiver in the NFL. He's done that so far but the perception that he should start will take away from the fact that he can't execute in the 3point stance as good as Ed. He isn't a secret treasure on the bench, he has to contribute on all facets of the game and that takes time.



Again going by what the Ravens have shown me--Ed gets the most snaps at the traditional TE spot and has started all the games this year. Just because I said he's a better blocker doesn't mean I think he's all world. Both of the guys are pretty bad and have to get better. Dickson just has the edge due to experience of more playing time leading me to believe the Ravens trust him in that role.



Being drafted higher was my way of saying that the Ravens believe he would be the eventual TE replacement for Todd Heap which is what it turned out to be considering his play time.

Very unreliable is harsh considering that the other receivers like Boldin and Smith have had their shares of drops. This is a team problem and can be fixed. Dropping balls has nothing to do with starting at TE because again they have to line up in the trenches which isn't Pitta's strong suit. Can he get better? I hope so because I want both of em to be complete TEs.

I do not like the notion of one being better than the other because they are still in their second years in the NFL and had limited playing time in their rookie years (I think Pitta had one catch last year). Ed Dickson has to get better at catching the ball and Pitta has to get better at blocking. Maybe they can start teaching one another?
[/quote]

Hope so. I just wish Heap wasn't old, beat-up, and a Cardinal. They'll both get better at blocking with experience. Heap wasn't a good blocker early on either. All I know is that Pitta has better hands, and that does matter. With 3 seconds left in the game, at the 10 yard line, who do you trust to catch the ball, Pitta, or Dickson?

[True]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324940020' post='923447']

Hope so. I just wish Heap wasn't old, beat-up, and a Cardinal. They'll both get better at blocking with experience. Heap wasn't a good blocker early on either. All I know is that Pitta has better hands, and that does matter. With 3 seconds left in the game, at the 10 yard line, who do you trust to catch the ball, Pitta, or Dickson?
[/quote]
I'll take Pitta cause he's the better pure receiver.

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Agree 100%. Dennis clearly fits well into our offense and has proved himself reliable (see 49ers game)

[Kwothdaraven]

Is pitta hispanic? Looks italian and pitta is definitely an italian name

[CapoRocky]

I think we should continue to play them both. Maybe Pitta needs to be used as a wide receiver on passing downs?

Look at the stats:

NAME REC YDS AVE TDS

Pitta 34 343 10.1 2

Dickson 53 508 9.6 5

[Rogerdat]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1324937691' post='923412']

Ed Dickson is Cam's guy? Really? I thought I heard everything [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/229031_rofl.gif[/img]

Pitta isn't starting because it's simple: He is not good at the 3 point stance and can't play the traditional TE that calls for blocking DEs and LBs--that's the type of physical ability that separates the two TEs. The Ravens do not run the same offense as BYU and is more run based which calls for having good blocking receivers.

Aside from Bleacher Report garbage, he was almost never in the top 100 prospects. He is what many draft pundits said he would be currently in the NFL - a situational receiver going in the late rounds (4th).

Pitta isn't perfect either and the theory that because he gets more snaps he will make the passing game better is crazy. You have to take the good with the bad and everything isn't going to be peachy. You want the run game to suffer just because a certain player can catch more passes? Pitta starting at the traditional TE is not going to make the offense better....

Seriously this Dickson hate is getting out of control . Ozzie (a HOF TE himself...) drafted him a round higher for a reason. He played backup and filled in for Todd Heap last year and has started all the games this year for a reason. He drops passes and now he should lose his starting job in only his second year? I guess Ricky Williams and LaQuan Williams should start as well huh?
[/quote]

Hey True, the comment about stereotyping comes from all the post stating Dickson is so much more athletic. You are kidding yourself and have your head in the sand if you don't think that comment comes from people stereotyping white athletes as though they can't jump or run as fast as black athletes. It's not a racial thing it's a stereotype. Just like the movie "white men can't jump." Just like people use to say blacks couldn't be good QB's because they were smart enough, not true but not racist either it's called a stereotype. They were wrong and so are people who can't look at numbers I presented and see that not only is Pitta faster in all quickness drill evaluators than Dickson. Putting all those evaluators together Pitta is a better athlete. Even if you still think Dickson is a better athlete which all the evidence points against it, Dickson has in no way separated himself to be that much better in any football activity including blocking. If they both are bad which they both have had their issues, there is not one that is that much better at blocking than the other. Funny how they seem to always put Pitta in the backfield to protect Flacco and you rarely see Dickson do this. As far a the three point ridiculous comment that I shouldn't even address but I will for your benefit, these guys are all world class athletes or they wouldn't be in the NFL. If you don't think a guy with Pitta's ability can get into a 3 point stance and play from there you need to start watch soccer instead of football. Am I a BYU fan? yes I am. Does that make me bias? Probably, but don't spew utter nonsense on here unless you have the facts like I posted. Just because he played at BYU and not the same system is utter nonsense. He still had to catch the ball 100's of times when thrown to him, he still had to run with it after the catch and he still had to share receptions from other talented players on the team. Lastly, referring to the "Cam's guy" comment, you tell me how Cam, who everyone knows has no clue as an OC, can continually feed the ball to Dickson and keep Pitta into block if Pitta isn't a better blocker than Dickson, had by far a better college career than Dickson, smoked Dickson in the combine events, and has proven more reliable than Dickson? Oh by the way Mr. True, besides the Bleacher Report Garbage, I could have taken the same stats and similar comments from about five other "Expert" NFL scouting reports. The information I took about Dickson that basically slammed him and his ability as a NFL tight end prospect came straight from an NFL report out of his hometown newspaper in Oregon.

[MLGWL20]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324940020' post='923447']

Hope so. I just wish Heap wasn't old, beat-up, and a Cardinal. They'll both get better at blocking with experience. Heap wasn't a good blocker early on either. All I know is that Pitta has better hands, and that does matter. With 3 seconds left in the game, at the 10 yard line, who do you trust to catch the ball, Pitta, or Dickson?
[/quote]
Make that the 15 yard line and who do you trust to get open?

[flynismo]

[quote name='MLGWL20' timestamp='1324947304' post='923567']
Make that the 15 yard line and who do you trust to get open?
[/quote]

Pitta, considering that he is averaging more YPC than Dickson.

[MLGWL20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1324947477' post='923569']

Pitta, considering that he is averaging more YPC than Dickson.
[/quote]
Touché but Id still take Dickson

[1/28/01]

[quote name='MLGWL20' timestamp='1324948420' post='923583']
Touché but Id still take Dickson
[/quote]
But who do you trust more to catch the ball? Again, not knocking anyone, we're just debating two very good future TE's of our team...

[True]

[quote name='Rogerdat' timestamp='1324946990' post='923558']
[b]Am I a BYU fan? yes I am. Does that make me bias? Probably,[/b]
[/quote]

Only thing I picked up after skimming your wall of text.

Not going to get into an argument with someone who isn't objective...

[flynismo]

[quote name='MLGWL20' timestamp='1324948420' post='923583']
Touché but Id still take Dickson
[/quote]

See, that's the very basis of this thread (and what we are debating)..
I assume you'd prefer Dickson because his speed presumably means he is a better mid range or deep threat?

Which brings us back full circle -- we can love a guy's potential, but what about Pitta's potential? He is showing that he can be everything Dickson is as a receiver, and then some. He's not just the TE equivalent of a possession receiver; he's a playmaker in his own right.

I guess I've just lost a lot of faith in Dickson. I waited til now, because I didn't want to start bashing the guy 3 - 4 weeks into the season, in hopes that it would improve. But it seems to be getting worse.

[flynismo]

On a side note, it's refreshing to debate something other than why Flacco sucks!!

[Jamal]

I've been saying this since we drafted him.

About times you guys joined the bandwagon.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1324955890' post='923714']
I've been saying this since we drafted him.

About times you guys joined the bandwagon.
[/quote]

been on that boat! I've prefered Pitta as well, now I feel justified in the opinion!

[The Raven]

[quote name='MLGWL20' timestamp='1324947304' post='923567']
Make that the 15 yard line and who do you trust to get open?
[/quote]

Pitta still. He may not be as fast as Dickson, but the guy knows how to get open.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1324955890' post='923714']
I've been saying this since we drafted him.

About times you guys joined the bandwagon. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]

I wanted the guy in the third round. I'm surprised his age dropped him that far, but I'm happy to have Pitta. I watched him bail out Max Hall so many times it wasn't funny.