Time To Start Pitta

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1324921575' post='923137']Actually I think he is Hispanic, but that's even better! I can't think of any other successful Hispanic TE currently playing, so maybe Pitta can start a new trend.
[/quote]

Tony Gonzalez comes to mind. One of the best TEs of all time

[Grapple Raven]

Pitta is 6'4 and a half, lol and around 245 lbs, and used to be a wide reciever in college before he was moved to TE. His blocking has improved this season and his hands are money! Just baffled that Cam doesn't use him more, I been calling for more Pitta all year. Pitta scoring his first TD for the Ravens in the SF game? Should have been more and before...but then again its Cam we are talking about here!

[ball hawkin 20]

Off-Topic: We should get Finley in FA

[The Raven]

[quote name='ball hawkin 20' timestamp='1324932067' post='923324']
Off-Topic: We should get Finley in FA [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]
[/quote]

I do think there is a possibility that he doesn't get resigned in FA, but I don't see us going after him. Wouldn't complain though!

[MLGWL20]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1324929748' post='923286']
"Plays Pitta could never make"? That is not a fair, nor accurate assessment. Dickson drops A LOT of balls and Pitta catches everything thrown his way. [b] Much rather have consistency than the POTENTIAL of a big play[/b]. He dropped (again) two vital 3rd down balls this past weekend.
[/quote]

So we should bench Torrey Smith and re-sign Derrick Mason.

Yes Ed has drops but so does Q and Torrey

You guys around here act like Pitta has the greatest hands ever like hes Larry Fitz. He has good hands but he hasnt been thrown at alot so we dont really know how good they really are. What if he drops 2 balls this sunday then what?

I think Dickson is the clear #1 and Pitta is a great #2

[The Raven]

[quote name='MLGWL20' timestamp='1324932392' post='923330']

So we should bench Torrey Smith and re-sign Derrick Mason.

Yes Ed has drops but so does Q and Torrey

You guys around here act like Pitta has the greatest hands ever like hes Larry Fitz. He has good hands but he hasnt been thrown at alot so we dont really know how good they really are. What if he drops 2 balls this sunday then what?

I think Dickson is the clear #1 and Pitta is a great #2
[/quote]

He has great hands, and he hasn't been thrown at, he hasn't been on the field as much as Dickson. If he has 2 drops, well, Dickson still has more

[1/28/01]

[quote name='MLGWL20' timestamp='1324932392' post='923330']

So we should bench Torrey Smith and re-sign Derrick Mason.

Yes Ed has drops but so does Q and Torrey

You guys around here act like Pitta has the greatest hands ever like hes Larry Fitz. He has good hands but he hasnt been thrown at alot so we dont really know how good they really are. What if he drops 2 balls this sunday then what?

I think Dickson is the clear #1 and Pitta is a great #2
[/quote]
I have no idea how the Dickson/Pitta comparison is even remotely close to a Smith/Mason one, but whatever. Also, I am speaking on whats been seen and not "what ifs". IF Pitta starts dropping balls, okay, yeah, it becomes an issue. BUT he hasnt and Dickson has. Its what is seen, not what is speculated to be seen.

Pitta has caught 70% of the balls throw his way compare to Dicksons 60%...pretty huge difference!!
http://www.kffl.com/player/22604/nfl/utilization/dennis-pitta
http://www.kffl.com/player/22544/nfl/utilization/ed-dickson

[H8R]

[quote name='MLGWL20' timestamp='1324932392' post='923330']


So we should bench Torrey Smith and re-sign Derrick Mason.

Yes Ed has drops but so does Q and Torrey

You guys around here act like Pitta has the greatest hands ever like hes Larry Fitz. He has good hands but he hasnt been thrown at alot so we dont really know how good they really are. What if he drops 2 balls this sunday then what?

I think Dickson is the clear #1 and Pitta is a great #2
[/quote]


Why do you keep throwing WR's in the mix while speaking about TE's? Pitta is consistent and also a playmaker. Dickson is also a play maker but with the amount of drops , that's not a confidence booster for Joe. The TE is supposed to be a safety blanket, a sure handed option that knows the down and distance, how to read a coverage and has SURE hands....

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1324933048' post='923337']
I have no idea how the Dickson/Pitta comparison is even remotely close to a Smith/Mason one, but whatever. Also, I am speaking on whats been seen and not "what ifs". IF Pitta starts dropping balls, okay, yeah, it becomes an issue. BUT he hasnt and Dickson has. Its what is seen, not what is speculated to be seen.

Pitta has caught 70% of the balls throw his way compare to Dicksons 60%...pretty huge difference!!
[url="http://www.kffl.com/player/22604/nfl/utilization/dennis-pitta"]http://www.kffl.com/...on/dennis-pitta[/url]
[url="http://www.kffl.com/player/22544/nfl/utilization/ed-dickson"]http://www.kffl.com/...tion/ed-dickson[/url]
[/quote]
That's probably a bit deceiving since Pitta usually catches short passes and we do try to attack down field with Dickson.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1324933649' post='923343']
That's probably a bit deceiving since Pitta usually catches short passes and we do try to attack down field with Dickson.
[/quote]

How is that deceiving?

It's this simple - Pitta catches more balls, and Dickson drops more. How is the deceiving?

And for the record, Pitta has a greater YPC avg than Dickson. That argument does not work.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1324933649' post='923343']
That's probably a bit deceiving since Pitta usually catches short passes and we do try to attack down field with Dickson.
[/quote]
Sorry, but no matter how you slice it favors towards to Pitta. Pitta has a 10.1 yard avg per completion compared to Dicksons 9.6 yards. The true comparison that I know would make more sense for your counter would be avg per attempt, but not sure where to find that. Bottom line () is I'll take Pitta all day long!!!!

[1/28/01]

Based on "Value Per Play", Pitta ranks higher as well - http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1324933875' post='923346']
Sorry, but no matter how you slice it favors towards to Pitta. Pitta has a 10.1 yard avg per completion compared to Dicksons 9.6 yards. The true comparison that I know would make more sense for your counter would be avg per attempt, but not sure where to find that. Bottom line ([img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img]) is I'll take Pitta all day long!!!!
[/quote]

Since Pitta has the higher completion % , the balance would shift even more in his favor if you looked at yds/attempt.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1324933875' post='923346']
Sorry, but no matter how you slice it favors towards to Pitta. Pitta has a 10.1 yard avg per completion compared to Dicksons 9.6 yards. The true comparison that I know would make more sense for your counter would be avg per attempt, but not sure where to find that. Bottom line ([img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img]) is I'll take Pitta all day long!!!!
[/quote]
I like Pitta more too so don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's as simple as people are tying to make it seem in this thread. Pitta is rarely the only TE on the field therefore Dickson always gets more attention than Pitta. Moving Pitta up to starting TE doesn't guarantee he will continue to produce at the same level against tougher coverage.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='BenDufusberger' timestamp='1324934188' post='923350']

Since Pitta has the higher completion % , the balance would shift even more in his favor if you looked at yds/attempt.
[/quote]
Very true and evident in the latest link I provided above when looking at his "effective yards" and "DVOA" in comparison to Dicksons. Not knocking the guy here, just supplying statistical analysis to further prove my stance

[gametyme]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1324921575' post='923137']


Actually I think he is Hispanic, but that's even better! I can't think of any other successful Hispanic TE currently playing, so maybe Pitta can start a new trend.
[/quote]
This is very interesting, I had no idea Pitta was hispanic (if that is the case), i know he was born in Fresno CA, and i just assumed the name Pitta origanated from greek or italian descent. Anyway i agree, i would like to see more Pitta, the drops from Dickson happen way to much.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1324934369' post='923351']
I like Pitta more too so don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's as simple as people are tying to make it seem in this thread. Pitta is rarely the only TE on the field therefore Dickson always gets more attention than Pitta. Moving Pitta up to starting TE doesn't guarantee he will continue to produce at the same level against tougher coverage.
[/quote]
I dont really think (just an opinion here) defenses are keying in on Dickson to essentially leave Pitta a little more free. I dont think either is on any DC's radar yet to game plan for them. Again, this one is just an opinion with no facts behind it.

[True]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1324933048' post='923337']
I have no idea how the Dickson/Pitta comparison is even remotely close to a Smith/Mason one, but whatever. Also, I am speaking on whats been seen and not "what ifs". IF Pitta starts dropping balls, okay, yeah, it becomes an issue. BUT he hasnt and Dickson has. Its what is seen, not what is speculated to be seen.

Pitta has caught 70% of the balls throw his way compare to Dicksons 60%...pretty huge difference!!
[url="http://www.kffl.com/player/22604/nfl/utilization/dennis-pitta"]http://www.kffl.com/...on/dennis-pitta[/url]
[url="http://www.kffl.com/player/22544/nfl/utilization/ed-dickson"]http://www.kffl.com/...tion/ed-dickson[/url]
[/quote]
Thanks for the links this really helps.

Dennis Pitta - 34/49 = 69%

Ed Dickson - 53/88 = 60%

Anquan Boldin - 57/106 = 53%

Torrey Smith 45/88 = 51%
.
Since Ed Dickson has more targets his catch percentage reflects that and is lower. Interestedly he isn't the worst offender on the team either and Anquan Boldin who is a veteran and former Pro Bowler has a worst reception rate than him.

This drop issue is being over blown. The whole team struggles with it (including Ray Rice) and the TEAM is tied for 3rd in the league all together. Drops are bad, but it can be fixed. Ed Dickson will get better as he builds more chemistry with Joe Flacco. He's still young (24 to Pitta's 26) and will get better with more experience.

[SanDiegan Raven]

Alright guys hit the breaks on the Pitta over Dickson talks. Let's not forget Dickson kept us in the Seattle game. I hope you're not the same people that wanted to get rid of Torrey because of a few drops in pre-season. Obviously, drops are a concern accross the board, but as the writer suggests he's singling out Dickson. Sorry guys, I'm not ready to drop Dickson. Pitta simply reminds us of Heap because of the way he looks and plays but he is not Heap. Heap cannot be replaced. However, much like the Patriots we can have two successful TEs.

Catching the ball is only part of the equation. If you can't get open you can't catch squat. I think we have two outstanding TEs and one has just suffered a case of the drops. He'll refocus and be good to go. We'll need them both! You don't leave home without your AMEX but you don't close your VISA because you want to use your AMEX. It's bad for your credit.

[SanDiegan Raven]

Oh yeah, Dickson did catch the TD BTW!

[1/28/01]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1324934562' post='923361']
Thanks for the links this really helps.

Dennis Pitta - 34/49 = 69%
Ed Dickson - 53/88 = 60%
Anquan Boldin - 57/106 = 53%
Torrey Smith 45/88 = 51%
.
Since Ed Dickson has more targets his catch percentage reflects that and is lower. Interestedly he isn't the worst offender on the team either and Anquan Boldin who is a veteran and former Pro Bowler has a worst reception rate than him.

This drop issue is being over blown. The whole team struggles with it (including Ray Rice) and the TEAM is tied for 3rd in the league all together. Drops are bad, but it can be fixed. Ed Dickson will get better as he builds more chemistry with Joe Flacco. He's still young (24 to Pitta's 26) and will get better with more experience.
[/quote]
I agree with everything minus the fact that Dicksons percentage is lower simply due to the fact he's targeted more. Not true...

[1/28/01]

[quote name='SanDiegan Raven' timestamp='1324935222' post='923369']
Alright guys hit the breaks on the Pitta over Dickson talks.  Let's not forget Dickson kept us in the Seattle game.  I hope you're not the same people that wanted to get rid of Torrey because of a few drops in pre-season.  Obviously, drops are a concern accross the board, but as the writer suggests he's singling out Dickson.  Sorry guys, I'm not ready to drop Dickson.  Pitta simply reminds us of Heap because of the way he looks and plays but he is not Heap.  Heap cannot be replaced.  However, much like the Patriots we can have two successful TEs.

Catching the ball is only part of the equation.  If you can't get open you can't catch squat.  I think we have two outstanding TEs and one has just suffered a case of the drops.  He'll refocus and be good to go. We'll need them both!  You don't leave home without your AMEX but you don't close your VISA because you want to use your AMEX.  It's bad for your credit.
[/quote]
We're (at least I'm) not knocking Dickson. Just giving my view on the posed question at hand. Given the option, I'd prefer Pitta over Dickson. With that said, however, I love the fact that we have both and the fact that this discussion is even warranted.

[keebl3rs]

I'm glad we have both of em. Lets get em both out there more often.

Fire Cam.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='keebl3rs' timestamp='1324935768' post='923379']
I'm glad we have both of em. Lets get em both out there more often.

Fire Cam.
[/quote]
After all the posting I did and the links/stats I have provided, scratch what I said. Just do this!!!

[Rogerdat]

Okay, can we please end the stereotyping? Just because Pitta is white does not mean he is not as fast, faster or as athletic or more athletic than Dickson. First of all because Dickson is Cam's guy Pitta does not get the routes afforded Dickson, nor does Cam make him Flacco's first target as much as he does Dickson. As most of you can see Pitta only gets the underneath routes and Dickson gets the underneath and vertical routes. I base my post and my questioning of Cam's selection of first team tight end on the following information taken from unbiased combine results and the fact Pitta runs better routes and doesn't drop the ball. I know that I will hear some say that the combine results mean nothing but when Pitta beats Dickson in all but one event, the long jump Pitta is either more athletic than Dickson or it is too close to say Dickson is that much more athletic than Pitta.
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"]Bleacher Report[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"]Just two weeks ago, I wrote an article projecting Dennis Pitta as a fourth round pick. Clearly that was before the Combine.[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"]Pitta then proceeded to wow the scouts by putting in these ranks at the TE position in the combine drills:[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"][b]40 Yard Dash:[/b] 4.63 Seconds,third[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Bench Press:[/b] 27 Reps, second[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Vertical Jump:[/b] 34", seventh[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Broad Jump:[/b] 9'5", fifth[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Three Cone Drill:[/b] 6.72 seconds, first[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"][b]20 Yard Shuttle:[/b] 4.17 seconds, first[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"][b]60 Yard Shuttle:[/b] 11.53, first[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"]Pitta, by far, surpassed expectations at the Combine. The knock on him coming in was that he didn't have the speed to stretch the field vertically at the next level. He proved that wrong, by posting the third fastest 40 time among all tight ends.[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"]The other knock on him was he was an unproven blocker. He then went on to bench press 225 lbs 27 times, second highest among all tight ends.[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"]He also did very well in interviews at the combine, impressing scouts with his maturity, intelligence, and football IQ.[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"]Given Pitta's production in college, and his combination of speed, size, and strength, he may very well end up being the best tight end in this year's draft.[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"]I'm now projecting him to go before the end of the second round, possibly before the end of the first.[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"]Dennis Pitta has proven he is the complete package. We already knew he was skilled and productive on the football field. There were questions about his strength and athleticism. Those questions have been answered.[/font][/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Times New Roman"]And yet, teams seem to be sold on Gresham as the top TE instead. A player that missed the entire season last year. A player that is slower, weaker, less durable, and less productive than Pitta. Any team that chooses another tight end before Pitta will likely end up regretting it.[/font][/color][/size]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#000000"]Posted by the Oregonian newspaper:[/color][/size][/font]
[color=#444e5c][font=Verdana][size=2]Former Oregon tight end Ed Dickson had a rather ordinary workout on Saturday at the NFL Scouting Combine but did display the speed that will make him a highly sought after player in April’s NFL Draft.

Dickson ran the 40-yard dash in 4.67seconds, third fastest among tight ends. In the bench press, Dickson did 23 reps of 225 pounds. That figure ranked tied for fifth at his position. His 34” vertical jump ranked seventh and his 9’7” broad jump ranked fourth

In the field drills, however, Dickson’s day proved a little problematic. Dickson stumbled and fell during a drill where receivers run across the field alternately catching passes from both sides. Dickson got himself up only to drop the next ball before catching the final pass and finishing the drill.

Dickson faced some mediocre throws on other pass-catching drills. He adjusted well [/size][/font][/color]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#000000"]Additional information includes the fact Pitta is the NCCA all-time leader amoung tight ends in reception yards with 2901. This is with sharing reception time with Austin Collie of the Colts and BYU's all-time leading rusher in Harvy Unga. [/color][/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#000000"] [/color][/size][/font]

[True]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1324935388' post='923372']
I agree with everything minus the fact that Dicksons percentage is lower simply due to the fact he's targeted more. [b]Not true...[/b]
[/quote]

But it's in the name...

They both bring things to the table. Pitta has good hands but hasn't progressed as a full TE as much as Ed Dickson. Pitta was a WR before converting to TE so might explain why he's getting used to the position and not the starter. He is labeled a TE but you mostly see him on passing or 3rd downs and he becomes that 3rd receiver.

Eventually they'll both get better. If they can become complete blockers than that would really open up the PA game and diversify the offense cause you don't know what they'll do. They are both a big integral part of the offense's future imo..

[SanDiegan Raven]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1324935532' post='923374']
We're (at least I'm) not knocking Dickson. Just giving my view on the posed question at hand. Given the option, I'd prefer Pitta over Dickson. With that said, however, I love the fact that we have both and the fact that this discussion is even warranted.
[/quote]

I prefer Dickson over Pitta but then again that is situational for me. Dickson has made some great catches but we only see his drops. The best catch he had all season was called back for holding (Week1). Let's not forget his Seattle performance, this one is ignored because we lost. Then he drops some crucial passes against the Browns and we want to start the next man. Pitta I believe is equally capable but who "starts" is not as important as what happens in between the start and the finish. Dickson is fine and Pitta is fine. Both have produced this year and will continue to produce regardless of who "starts".

[BenDufusberger]

I'd like to see more two TE sets used , and I like Dickson - he's made some big plays for us. That doesn't mean I can't think Pitta has earned himself more playing time. If Dickson is now getting snaps at a 60/40 ratio over Pitta , I'm of the opinion that it should be more like 50/50 , or 60/40 Pitta , based on Pitta's superior performance to date , as reflected in the stats.

Pitta came in with a reputation for running better routes and having better hands , and that has proved out. Also , according to PFF , none of the throws targeted to Pitta have been intercepted :

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/23/three-to-focus-on-browns-ravens-week-16/"]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/23/three-to-focus-on-browns-ravens-week-16/[/url]

I don't know what that figure would be for Dickson , but since Joe has 12 interceptions , you can figure that each of our other main receivers was the intended target for about 3 or 4 of those INTs , each. Maybe Pitta has just been lucky in that regard , but given the negative impact of INTs , I'd want to see if that luck holds out , and use him more often.

[SanDiegan Raven]

I don't see where anyone stereotyped Pitta on here. That's not even an issue. I think the statement should be that maybe Pitta should get more targets. Starting is irrelevant. Honestly, the problem stems down to Cam but that's an entire separate issue. How can the Pats use two TEs effectively but Dickson and Pitta can't find balance that plays to their strengths? I think Cam has more talent than he knows what to do with.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1324920698' post='923116']
Gotta say that after another week of watching our wide recievers / TE not make plays and dropping passes, it is time to make some changes.

Starting with Dickson. [u][b]Sick of watching this guy drop passes, or not holding onto a pass on the first hint of contact[/b][/u]. Dickson may be the best athlete we have ever had at TE -- but he really makes me miss having Heap.

[u][b]Speaking of Heap comparisons, the guy who DOES give me Heap flashbacks is Pitta[/b][/u]. This kid has an astounding catch radius, and anything, and I do mean ANYTHING that comes inside that radius will be end up in his hands -- whether it be by force, or an acrobatic catch that borders on poetry.

Neither of these two are great blockers, so we may as well go with the better recieving option, which is Pitta by leaps and bounds.

These drops are costing us big time. The Cleveland game was (another) perfect example of how we let teams hang around unnecessarily.
And Dickson is not the only offender (see Boldin, Torrey, LaQuan and Rice as repeat offenders as well). But I am singling Dickson out for two reasons:

1. He is the worst offender
2. We have a very solution already in place

I dont want a repeat of our playoff game against PIT where Dickson was wide open and flat out dropped a critical pass. It's time for Dennis the Menace.
[/quote]

i'e said all of this numerous of times. Pitta is better than Dickson! with Dickson we see a "shadow" of good things to come but with Pitta we see the "substance" (that creates the shadow that's casted) of great things to come! start the man!

~Mili