Cleveland Columnist Writes: [You Took] Our Team, How About Giving Us Your Quarterback?

[The Raven]

[quote name='jonesy57' timestamp='1325210713' post='926506']
I agree Palmer is of similar value to Flacco. I guy you can win with and once in awhile has an outstanding game. Also has a "I can't believe he screwed up that badly" type game.

Flacco is an above average QB. Doesn't carry a team, but once in awhile. Usually is not the problem in a loss.

If you can get two 1st rd. picks for him; You would be crazy not to do it. Take those two picks and try to get RG3 or Luck?

If you boys get one of those guys you will be looking at a Super Bowl bid for years to come.
[/quote]

I'll pass. Flacco is a proven quarterback and with those two, they may bust; We know what we have with Joe, and he's nowhere near bad enough to get rid of. Those rookies will take time to develop, and may not even pan out to their potential

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='frozen joe flacco fan' timestamp='1325210573' post='926501']
With all the flack Joe has received from Baltimore fans, I would not blame him if he wanted to be traded in the offseason. Personally, I would hate to see it but I would understand it. I give him a lot of credit for playing through the consatnt barrage of attacks he has had to endure. [b]I don't think the small school theory has anything to do with the criticism since he graduated from the same school that Rich Gannon attended.[/b] Unless I'm mistaken, He re-wrote all of Rich Gannon's records at Delaware. Hopefully, he will surpass some of the NFL stats Gannon compiled. He may not be as flashy or flamboyant as Romo, Ryan and Sanchez, but he has already locked up another playoff start. With a little luck, he may become the second QB from the Univ. of Delaware to play in a Super Bowl. I would agree that our Super Bowl hopes rest mainly on the broad shoulders of Joe Flacco. He will be under a lot of pressure but pressure is nothing more than an opportunity to prove oneself and I know he will not crack under the pressure. I don't want to see Mr. Bates' words shoved down his mouth but I would like to see him have to eat some raw crow when we win on this Sunday.
[/quote]

Lots of great QB's came out of small schools not traditionally associated with producing NFL talent. Dave Kreig, Phil Simms, Steve McNair, Doug Williams, and Kurt Warner all did. Plus other positions - Jerry Rice, T.O., Howie Long, Walter Peyton, etc. Unfortunately, most average fans don't know this, and even a lot of serious fans don't think this way. They see Division I-A school, Delaware, and they think, "Well if this guy wasn't good enough to start at Michigan or Miami or B.C. or Notre Dame or Texas or ..." I know because I'm guilty of it more often than I should be. The old saying "perception is reality" holds true. People want to see a developmental guy from a no name school with lots of flaws who can't get better. I really believe a lot of it is because he doesn't fit the mold of quarterback [i]they[/i] want, so therefore he can't be a good qb.

[BloodRaven]

We already gave them Derek Anderson.

[Fricknmaniac]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1325223022' post='926660']
We already gave them Derek Anderson.
[/quote]

HA! I remember thinking for that first year how stupid we were to have let him go... and then I saw his second year in Cleveland.

[ravensdfan]

Well, Cleveland, you have some high draft picks this year. Find your own darn QB!

Bottom line: Joe makes mistakes and he is not elite....yet. He has the potential to be elite. There are still areas of his game that need improving, but he IS improving. Comparing him to elite QBs with years of experience over him really isn't fair. Not by us fans nor by the media. Yet, that is what we and they do. The man has more wins in his first four years than any other QB. Sorry, you don't get there with a below par or mediocre QB. While our D has been solid the four years he's been here, it has not been that shut down D we used to have.

I don't think any QB here would put up the gaudy numbers some seem to want. Pitt has transformed from a run first team to a pass first team. They say it's because of Big Ben but I don't really think that is the answer. I think it is because they do not have that running game anymore. Mendenhall is serviceable but he is no Bettis. He can't carry a team. We have Rice, a top RB, versatile. While I can see us using the passing attack more, I don't see us making it our staple.

I think if the Flacco haters get their wish and run Joe out of town, they will rue the day. Sadly, the rest of us fans will have to pay for their blind hate as well. Just my opinion.

[jonesy57]

Ben is a HOFer QB. He carries that team. Flacco is very good. The steelers offense goes as does ben. That's why tomlinson is talking about him playing this Sunday when he shouldn't even suit up. He means that much to them. I dunno who is Flacco's backup, but he is probably closer to getting your offense to make similar plays as Flacco does. Charlie Batch can't touch ben's production.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

I agree that Joe is not elite yet but I think he can join the ranks of elite QBs this year by winning out from here on. I know that's a tall order but I'd rather have the ball in his hands to do it than in many other active starting QBs. Watch what happens though! Even if we win the Super Bowl, his detractors will find some lame excuse to give the credit to someone else. They'll say he's another Trent Dilfer. Oh well! Talk is cheap! I am pleased to have Tyrod Taylor as Joe's backup but if anyone thinks he is capable at this point of matching Joe's production and taking us to the Super Bowl, guess again. I think Tyrod will quickly figure out that playing in the NFL is a lot different than playing at Virginia Tech. Now if Mike Vick was his backup that would be a better comparison.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Fricknmaniac' timestamp='1325224878' post='926673']

HA! I remember thinking for that first year how stupid we were to have let him go... and then I saw his second year in Cleveland.
[/quote]

That's why it makes no sense to judge off of one season in football.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='jonesy57' timestamp='1325247721' post='926730']
Ben is a HOFer QB. [b]He carries that team.[/b] Flacco is very good. The steelers offense goes as does ben. That's why tomlinson is talking about him playing this Sunday when he shouldn't even suit up. He means that much to them. I dunno who is Flacco's backup, but he is probably closer to getting your offense to make similar plays as Flacco does. [b]Charlie Batch can't touch ben's production.[/b]
[/quote]

Ben is great and everything, but there are times when he is not at all carrying the team. There are times when he's doing nothing, or even hurting the team. Losing to the Browns on Thursday Night Football in 2009? This last Super Bowl when he threw a pick six? Week 1 of this season where he had 5 turnovers? He's not infallible, he makes mistakes. Obviously he's better than Flacco right now, but he's not the best QB around.

Why did the Steelers go 3-1 last year with Charlie Batch? Why did he drive down the field against us for a fourth quarter touchdown, which would have won the game if Flacco hadn't taken it back?

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1325207470' post='926461']
So are you agreeing with my trade scenario. Or the trade I commented on?
Original was someone saying trade flacco for josh cribbs and a 1st round pick.
So I said we could at least try to get Joe Thomas with a pick or both 1st round picks Cleveland will have.
I notice u referred to Flacco as mediocre QB but if Palmer is worth 1st and conditional 1st ( next yr). Then Flacco should have similar value.
[/quote]
I would take Joe Thomas and a pick for Flacco.
I would take Josh Cribbs and their highest draft Pick for Flacco.
I don't know about two first rounders. I would like to secure some proven talent.

[Blex64]

[quote name='jonesy57' timestamp='1325247721' post='926730']
[b]Ben is a HOFer QB. He carries that team.[/b] Flacco is very good. The steelers offense goes as does ben. That's why tomlinson is talking about him playing this Sunday when he shouldn't even suit up. He means that much to them. I dunno who is Flacco's backup, but he is probably closer to getting your offense to make similar plays as Flacco does. Charlie Batch can't touch ben's production.
[/quote]

Not even close. On either count.

Troy Palumalu carries that team. Remember what happened last time he got hurt?

[The Raven]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1325279329' post='927062']

Not even close. On either count.

Troy Palumalu carries that team. Remember what happened last time he got hurt?
[/quote]

Yeah, Troy totally carries the team with all those missed tackles and blown coverages.

Ben carries that team, with a lot of help from that defense. Ben may have games where he turns it over or misses a lot, but as much as I hate to say it, he's a winner.

[Raven Hammer]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325283462' post='927137']

Yeah, Troy totally carries the team with all those missed tackles and blown coverages.

Ben carries that team, with a lot of help from that defense. Ben may have games where he turns it over or misses a lot, but as much as I hate to say it, he's a winner.
[/quote]

Absolutly true Joes the same

[The Raven]

[quote name='Raven Hammer' timestamp='1325283721' post='927142']

Absolutly true Joes the same
[/quote]

Ben has won them games. Sure, he put em in the hole to begin with, but he gets them out more times than not.

[Raven Hammer]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325283827' post='927143']

Ben has won them games. Sure, he put em in the hole to begin with, but he gets them out more times than not.
[/quote]

True enough But i'll take Joe twice on friday and 4 timees on sunday

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Raven Hammer' timestamp='1325284484' post='927152']


True enough But i'll take Joe twice on friday and 4 timees on sunday
[/quote]
I like Flacco, but Im not blind enough to take him over Roethlisberger! Not a chance...

[BmoreRavens732]

Ill take joe over ben cuz joes gonna be something special

[Raven Hammer]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325301739' post='927328']
I like Flacco, but Im not blind enough to take him over Roethlisberger! Not a chance...
[/quote]

I'll take Joe because he's younger and when he has as much time in as Ben he's going to be better

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325301739' post='927328']
I like Flacco, but Im not blind enough to take him over Roethlisberger! Not a chance...
[/quote]

It's a tough call. I'm not saying that Ben isn't better and he's certainly tough and proved he can handle AFCN defenses. But, it's a future thing. He's taken so much punishment, on and off the field. I don't see any reason that given the same time of experience as Ben Joe can't be every bit as good. And I think all that punishment is going to take its toll. Sooner than later.

[stan]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1324855872' post='922681']
I put something out there realistic. There left tackle, i would trade Joe for him head up.
[/quote]
Bob Irsay traded John Elway for a left tackle and a rag-armed QB. Hello Bob!

[AsianRice]

How about, we give Cam to the Browns with a basket of chocolate.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325277034' post='927029']
I would take Joe Thomas and a pick for Flacco.
I would take Josh Cribbs and their highest draft Pick for Flacco.
I don't know about two first rounders. I would like to secure some proven talent.
[/quote]
You want a return specialist and a top 10 pick for a proven NFL QB? I mean Thomas and a pick at least makes [b][i]some[/i][/b] sense.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1325366121' post='927678']
You want a return specialist and a top 10 pick for a proven NFL QB? I mean Thomas and a pick at least makes [b][i]some[/i][/b] sense.
[/quote]

But which pick? Does he mean any pick, like a 5th or 6th round pick, because it sounds like he'd take whatever. I believe at one point he said he'd take Thomas straight up for Flacco. Seems to me like it would put us in the same position as 2000-2006, great line anchored by a pro-bowl, possible HOF left tackle, pro bowl running back, elite defense, and no quarterback. And I think we missed the playoffs in line 03, 05, and 07, or something like that. Which is why the whole thing makes no sense to me, but whatever, the guy wants Flacco gone, and I suppose he has his own idea in his head about how valuable Joe is both to us and the Browns.

[cobrajet]

We don't owe Cleveland a damn thing. Good luck with Colt McCoy.

[Alexir]

Cleveland Browns will have RG3 next year if Holmgren is smart.

Also, to the person who said Joe Thomas and a pick for Flacco. If it was a 2nd round pick I would do it. That would be a monster offensive line.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325374816' post='927759']
Cleveland Browns will have RG3 next year if Holmgren is smart.

Also, to the person who said Joe Thomas and a pick for Flacco. If it was a 2nd round pick I would do it. That would be a monster offensive line.
[/quote]

And you'd be okay with possibly waiting several seasons before the team found another competent QB?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325368957' post='927715']

But which pick? Does he mean any pick, like a 5th or 6th round pick, because it sounds like he'd take whatever. I believe at one point he said he'd take Thomas straight up for Flacco. Seems to me like it would put us in the same position as 2000-2006, great line anchored by a pro-bowl, possible HOF left tackle, pro bowl running back, elite defense, and no quarterback. And I think we missed the playoffs in line 03, 05, and 07, or something like that. Which is why the whole thing makes no sense to me, but whatever, the guy wants Flacco gone, and I suppose he has his own idea in his head about how valuable Joe is both to us and the Browns.
[/quote]
Missed in 04, 05, 07 but I know what you mean. It doesn't make sense. We went so long without even a sniff of a franchise QB and now we have one that is beyond capable just still inconsistent. From 02-06 we had straight crap. 06 we had McNair in his swan song year, and then 07 was more crap. We harass Flacco like we've had good QBs in the past to compare him to. Ive said it before but unless Flacco wants like a 7 year 90 mil contract he's going to be back for a second contract. If I were Ozzie/Bischiotti I'd try to get Flacco for a 3 or 4 year deal that was heavy with incentives, easier said than done I realize.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1325375308' post='927763']

And you'd be okay with possibly waiting several seasons before the team found another competent QB?
[/quote]

Well since Cam is obsessed with Tyrod we could always give him a shot, even though it might take him a couple season to perform at an above average level.

If we had an offensive line with Thomas, Grubbs, Yanda and Oher on it. We could put anyone back there .


but none of this would ever happen.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325377284' post='927785']

Well since Cam is obsessed with Tyrod we could always give him a shot, even though it might take him a couple season to perform at an above average level.

If we had an offensive line with Thomas, Grubbs, Yanda and Oher on it. We could put anyone back there .


but none of this would ever happen.
[/quote]

Uhuh... sure...with that logic Kyle Boller wouldn't have been so atrocious.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1325366121' post='927678']
You want a [b]return specialist and a top 10 pick[/b] for a[b] proven NFL QB[/b]? I mean Thomas and a pick at least makes [b][i]some[/i][/b] sense.
[/quote]
Seems like fair market value, for what i see in Flacco. Denver traded Kyle Orton this year. Mediocre guys get traded all the time.